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Camille Paglia talks Madonna AGAIN.

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VogueMusic    0

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Paglia is exactly the type we were talking about in the Pat Leonard thread. Stuck in a certain time, and can only measure or understand Madonna through focusing on that time of Madonna's life and work that she thinks is only valid.

There also seems to be some sort of personal grudge, something deeper, that makes her so bitter about M. As said above, probably because she never got the time or attention or alliance from Madonna like she would have liked. Now I could be totally wrong, but, to me, Paglia has always prided herself on being an outsider in feminism, and she liked that. And she saw Madonna as sort of that same thing. But as time has gone on, and they both have aged, Madonna went in a completely different direction than Paglia has (and would have liked her to), so it's almost like she sees M as some sort of betrayer to her vision of the cause almost. Again, just a personal impression.

Honestly, I think Madonna has probably always sensed that there's something about Camille that will turn on you when it profits her (even during the praise years of the 80s and 90s). I think we often underestimate Madonna's intelligence on this sense of reading people...  Certainly, all these years later, it makes sense now.

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Nikki    0
 

536644_600.gif536644_600.gif

 

 

Paglia is exactly the type of fan we were talking about in the Pat Leonard thread. Stuck in a certain time, and can only measure or understand Madonna through focusing on that time of Madonna's life and work that she thinks is only valid.

There also seems to be some sort of personal grudge, something deeper, that makes her so bitter about M. As said above, probably because she never got the time or attention or alliance from Madonna like she would have liked. Now I could be totally wrong, but, to me, Paglia has always prided herself on being an outsider in feminism, and she liked that. And she saw Madonna as sort of that same thing. But as time has gone on, and they both have aged, Madonna went in a completely different direction than Paglia has (and would have liked her to), so it's almost like she sees M as some sort of betrayer to her vision of the cause almost. Again, just a personal impression.

Honestly, I think Madonna has probably always sensed that there's something about Camille that will turn on you when it profits her (even during the praise years of the 80s and 90s). I think we often underestimate Madonna's intelligence on this sense of reading people...  Certainly, all these years later, it makes sense now.

madonna said in the early 90s (i posted an interview in another thread) that she agrees with a lot of camille's politics and such, but that camille takes her too seriously and doesnt see madonna's humor

btw, put camille in a room with madonna and im certain that they'll have a good talk actually, and that camille will be intimidated. just dont put a camera in that same room.

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VogueMusic    0
 

madonna said in the early 90s (i posted an interview in another thread) that she agrees with a lot of camille's politics and such, but that camille takes her too seriously and doesnt see madonna's humor

Yep, I remember that. 

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Paglia was PISSED Madonna never wanted anything to do with her. She tried to interview M countless times and was payed dust! She was particularely P.O when Madonna opted for Norman Mailler to interview her over the proposed Paglia, for Esquire. :chuckle:

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Lolo    0

Haven't seen the interview so far but I bet the fact that Madonna -when private- looks completely different from what we see at red carpets or onstage was overlooked and ignored again. See Malawi visits, see Cuba or Italy vacations, what in the world is not graceful about that? They always talk about her star persona which of course is a total illusion!! This whole discussion is obsolete and invalid.

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Nick    0

Love reading interviews & hearing Paglia viewpoints on diverse subjects. Just don't agree with her on Madonna. Feel like she missed out on Madonna's interesting & amazing output during the entire nineties & into 00s.

Also, agree with others who feel she's just too hard on Madonna. Paglia takes her way too seriously. 

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erotica blu    0

Paglia is a fan of the bygone era Madonna. Therefore everything about the Madonna of now which doesn't appease the fan she is gets thrown under the bus and set on fire. 

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I personally find that Paglia discredits herself on several occasions during this interview. She supposedly stands for women being strong, self-made warriors, and then comments like a teenage wannabe about those who do. She is a talker, not a doer. She is an observer, not a creator. She could have a few valid points with themes about not relying on tricks or looks to attract young fans (even though I don't think it was said directly) but she completely misses the point, and then drives home her internal conflict by citing her obsession with Real Housewives and the like. Are you kidding me? Madonna having plastic surgery while continuing to push buttons is somehow betrayal of her legacy, but old rich women having plastic surgery to one-up each other on a reality show is somehow a brilliant statement? In my opinion, she's shown herself to be a hack, and quite awkward with her semi-believable self deprecation and try-too-hard pandering to gay men. What the hell was that? And why does anyone care?

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I'm not even gonna watch this.

O71xFJ.gif

Same. I'm so tired of these bitter old "intellectual" women preaching about ageing gracefully, acting your age, not being sexual and blah blah. They can all fuck off!

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Martin B.    0
 

Love reading interviews & hearing Paglia viewpoints on diverse subjects. Just don't agree with her on Madonna. Feel like she missed out on Madonna's interesting & amazing output during the entire nineties & into 00s.

Also, agree with others who feel she's just too hard on Madonna. Paglia takes her way too seriously. 

👍

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VogueMusic    0
 

I personally find that Paglia discredits herself on several occasions during this interview. She supposedly stands for women being strong, self-made warriors, and then comments like a teenage wannabe about those who do. She is a talker, not a doer. She is an observer, not a creator. She could have a few valid points with themes about not relying on tricks or looks to attract young fans (even though I don't think it was said directly) but she completely misses the point, and then drives home her internal conflict by citing her obsession with Real Housewives and the like. Are you kidding me? Madonna having plastic surgery while continuing to push buttons is somehow betrayal of her legacy, but old rich women having plastic surgery to one-up each other on a reality show is somehow a brilliant statement? In my opinion, she's shown herself to be a hack, and quite awkward with her semi-believable self deprecation and try-too-hard pandering to gay men. What the hell was that? And why does anyone care?

THIS.

 

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Shaun    0
 

I'm not even gonna watch this.

O71xFJ.gif

This. I have dinner to eat.

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Orion    0
 

I saw some Paglia today

 

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:chuckle:

 

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hoojoo    0

I think some people just expect more from Madonna, she seems to have stopped evolving/reinventing herself and hasn't really changed her image or her hair since Music era. 

The Met Ball outfit was absolutely atrocious, it's not about having your ass hanging out but the overall look was a total hot mess! Not surprised at all that Anna Wintour didn't like it. 

I love Madonna and always will but I just wish she would get a bloody haircut and get out of these Barbra Streisand years she seems to be stuck in. 

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The fact is most people don't want older humans to be sexual anymore until they themselves reach that age and realize that they were part of a society building a sexual prison for their elders that they themselves would one day be placed into.

Madonna is simply saying, "I did not help build this social construct of neutered aging. I will not support it. And I will not go in it. So fuck off."

Beautifully said 👏👏

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I agree with her on one point: the videos have decreased in quality/thought/meaning. Her best videos are 1989-1999.

Agreed. I think 90's Madonna has some of her most rich, experimental videos of her career. I think that's what Camille was saying that the work has declined. She's given us some gems since then but a lot of it has either been (on tour/photoshoot/dancing in front of a wall) but it can be due to the fact videos aside from streaming/YouTube certifications aren't a huge thing as they were during the TRL era. Sure we get visual albums and all from other artists but I think M has shifted her focus to touring and those visuals are sometimes better than videos meant to support her album releases. I think with RH she seemed interested in videos again but I'd love for M to bring something truly left field when it comes to videos again. Bedtime Story is honestly one of those videos that takes several viewing to believe and understand imo.

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loowee    0

I can't @ some people here trying to defending Camille. This cunt thinks Madonna hasn't done a good thing since the mid-90s. Yes she hates ROL, Music, AL and COADF too. 

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Hector    0
 

I think some people just expect more from Madonna, she seems to have stopped evolving/reinventing herself and hasn't really changed her image or her hair since Music era. 

The Met Ball outfit was absolutely atrocious, it's not about having your ass hanging out but the overall look was a total hot mess! Not surprised at all that Anna Wintour didn't like it. 

I love Madonna and always will but I just wish she would get a bloody haircut and get out of these Barbra Streisand years she seems to be stuck in. 

How NICE that you've lurked here for 2 years and decided to make THIS your first post.

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