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Camille Paglia talks Madonna AGAIN.

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It all comes down to the perception of what/how a person is expected to act when reaching a certain age. "Act your age" expectations are so illusory and easy to trap your mind.

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Watched like four seconds before I had to turn it off, didn't hear anything beyond "Madonna is a travesty to her former self from the 80's and 90's".

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I'm not even gonna watch this.

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Funny how she was continuously called out/trashed/dissed in the 80's and 90's and now suddenly they say she was great then while now she's a travesty,

Re-writing history anyone? Can this people make up their mind once and for all?

And sorry, I know she shouldn't, but I would LOVE Madonna to throw a flawless shade to this witch.

So would I, but this Plaglia Cunt seems to have an extremely thick skin and an answer for everything, so I imagine it wouldn't turn out well for Madonna...sadly.

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And sorry, I know she shouldn't, but I would LOVE Madonna to throw a flawless shade to this witch.

Well, she has in a way, she has turned down interviews/hbo and other tv specials with Paglia numerous times, Camille has talked about that several times...

Here's M talking about Paglia's changing opinions on her

@7:58

 

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Camille is stuck in the 90s if she took more notes from Madonna and learned to evolve perhaps she'd still be considered relevant today as well, instead of just a product of her time. Gloria steinem she is not.

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Well, she has in a way, she has turned down interviews/hbo and other tv specials with Paglia numerous times, Camille has talked about that several times...

Here's M talking about Paglia's changing opinion's on her

@7:58

 

Didn't know she already clocked Camille 20 years ago :rotfl: 

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I can't stand this stupid ageist idiot.  She calls herself a feminist and then carries on about how women should age gracefully.  Women should age however they want.  She is as sexist and ageist as anyone out there.  

Also,  it is so hypocritical the way she attacks the way women look.  Normally, I would not comment or worry about how anybody looks but as she is so keen to comment on everyone else and call other women ugly and ridiculous - well has she looked in the mirror lately ?   

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I agree with her on one point: the videos have decreased in quality/thought/meaning. Her best videos are 1989-1999.

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"Unhappy people are nasty people."  

 

Perfect. :lol:

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I agree with her on one point: the videos have decreased in quality/thought/meaning. Her best videos are 1989-1999.

Do you think so ?   I loved her videos for GMAYL, Girl gone Wild, and the singles off Rebel Heart. 

Another thing.  I appreciated Andy Cohen who defended her but again people under-estimate Madonna.  They just keep on bringing up that she wore a revealing outfit to the Met ball or sang a song called Bitch I'm Madonna etc.  That is a small part of what she has done the past few years.  Part of the charm and greatness of Madonna is how versatile and different she is - she has been that way throughout her entire career.  All people have to do is look at the videos for the 3 singles from Rebel Heart.  All completely different in every way.  

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I agree with her on one point: the videos have decreased in quality/thought/meaning. Her best videos are 1989-1999.

 

Sadly I believe alot of this has to do with the decline of MTV bothering to play music videos around that time.  And when they did it was only about 30 seconds on TRL.  I think record companies and even Madonna's probably thought why pump a lot of thought into these videos when no one is even going to see the damn thing?  Wasn't until youtube exploded that the quality of music videos (and even Madonna's videos) began to see an uptick in quality again.  I personally think Ghosttown is one of her best videos ever.  And whether you like the song or not GMAYL is an excellent video.  

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She's really not even worth getting worked up over at this point. 

She voted for Jill Stein? She supported Bernie Sanders? Look, everyone is entitled to their political views and has the right to vote for whomever they choose. I take no issue with that. Hell, I supported Bernie over Hillary and stuck my nose up when I went into the voting booth last November. But we don't need to get into that in this thread..... 

But for this bitch to sit on top of her mangy fucking high horse and preach about feminism and blah blah fucking blah, then turn around and NOT support women like Madonna and Hillary, who have fought the white male establishment EVERY GOD DAMN STEP OF THE WAY, makes her just a devoid, hollow, merit-less, talking head. How she's given a platform anymore is beyond me. She honestly makes me sick with her hypocrisy and blatant ignorance for everything Madonna has stood for more than 30 years.

Educate yourself, darling. Educate yourself.  

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I agree with her on one point: the videos have decreased in quality/thought/meaning. Her best videos are 1989-1999.

Except her videos have been better since 2012 when compared to her post American Life original video. 

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I think shes way to harsh and doesnt want M to have fun

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Except her videos have been better since 2012 when compared to her post American Life original video. 

better yes, but nowhere near as great as they were from LAP up till ROL.

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I think it's funny that Camille says Madonna isn't preserving her "glamour" by going to the Met Ball with her ass out. Yet, that was Madonna all through the 80's and 90's. And by the way, even Marlene Dietrich thought Madonna was vulgar back then, so I have no clue what Camille is talking about. She's just remembering the past through rose-colored glasses and blaming Madonna for her bad memory.

At least Andy was there to partially defend. Although he kind of hedged his answers on the crowd's response (approving of Camille's comments). The fact is most people don't want older humans to be sexual anymore until they themselves reach that age and realize that they were part of a society building a sexual prison for their elders that they themselves would one day be placed into.

Madonna is simply saying, "I did not help build this social construct of neutered aging. I will not support it. And I will not go in it. So fuck off."

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This woman is the worst. There's nothing worse than a woman bringing down with patriarchal opinions other women. 

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i know i'll be in the minority....but some of what she says here....is true.

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Listen, I disagree with the way Camille has framed the issue of how M is aging. And I think there's hypocrisy and short-sightedness in praising what she did in the past regarding sexuality and then turning on her for doing it now. However, I understand the frustration. I kind of agree with what Andy Cohen said about it. I have very mixed feelings but also respect M for doing her thing. I just think Camille could afford to show some compassion and understanding for what someone like M is up against as a 58-year-old woman in this cruel, ageist, sexist society. She can criticize M all she wants, but she can also do it in a less mean-spirited way. I still believe Camille has a personal vendetta against M for never getting that interview. Also, I find it interesting that she had NO response to Andy's defense.

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Listen, I disagree with the way Camille has framed the issue of how M is aging. And I think there's hypocrisy and short-sightedness in praising what she did in the past regarding sexuality and then turning on her for doing it now. However, I understand the frustration. I kind of agree with what Andy Cohen said about it. I have very mixed feelings but also respect M for doing her thing. I just think Camille could afford to show some compassion and understanding for what someone like M is up against as a 58-year-old woman in this cruel, ageist, sexist society. She can criticize M all she wants, but she can also do it in a less mean-spirited way. I still believe Camille has a personal vendetta against M for never getting that interview. Also, I find it interesting that she had NO response to Andy's defense.

i fully agree.

sometimes i also think M should just not do botox or any of that and be strong & proud. i loved madonna's look pre-cheeks and when she had the brown hair. but at the same time.. she's an icon. not a punk singer (helen mirren and meryl streep always had a classic older look so they're lucky) but look at brigitte bardot.. she also still wants people to see that famous look she has. they didnt change or "age gracefully" when you think about it. they stayed the same. the difference is that madonna is so relevant. she's breaking rules, going on the red carpet with a fit body almost showing her boobs and not wearing a mermaid/gala dress... part of the criticism is jealousy.and it's wrong of camille to give rules and say madonna shouldnt do this or that. i think it makes camille uncomfortable, so shes against it. but it's weird how someone like camille would be so narrow minded when it comes to age. she has this idea of madonna being similar like marlene dietrich and isn't accepting that madonna 's doing her own thing. 

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Paglia is exactly the type we were talking about in the Pat Leonard thread. Stuck in a certain time, and can only measure or understand Madonna through focusing on that time of Madonna's life and work that she thinks is only valid.

There also seems to be some sort of personal grudge, something deeper, that makes her so bitter about M. As said above, probably because she never got the time or attention or alliance from Madonna like she would have liked. Now I could be totally wrong, but, to me, Paglia has always prided herself on being an outsider in feminism, and she liked that. And she saw Madonna as sort of that same thing. But as time has gone on, and they both have aged, Madonna went in a completely different direction than Paglia has (and would have liked her to), so it's almost like she sees M as some sort of betrayer to her vision of the cause almost. Again, just a personal impression.

Honestly, I think Madonna has probably always sensed that there's something about Camille that will turn on you when it profits her (even during the praise years of the 80s and 90s). I think we often underestimate Madonna's intelligence on this sense of reading people...  Certainly, all these years later, it makes sense now.

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536644_600.gif536644_600.gif

 

 

Paglia is exactly the type of fan we were talking about in the Pat Leonard thread. Stuck in a certain time, and can only measure or understand Madonna through focusing on that time of Madonna's life and work that she thinks is only valid.

There also seems to be some sort of personal grudge, something deeper, that makes her so bitter about M. As said above, probably because she never got the time or attention or alliance from Madonna like she would have liked. Now I could be totally wrong, but, to me, Paglia has always prided herself on being an outsider in feminism, and she liked that. And she saw Madonna as sort of that same thing. But as time has gone on, and they both have aged, Madonna went in a completely different direction than Paglia has (and would have liked her to), so it's almost like she sees M as some sort of betrayer to her vision of the cause almost. Again, just a personal impression.

Honestly, I think Madonna has probably always sensed that there's something about Camille that will turn on you when it profits her (even during the praise years of the 80s and 90s). I think we often underestimate Madonna's intelligence on this sense of reading people...  Certainly, all these years later, it makes sense now.

madonna said in the early 90s (i posted an interview in another thread) that she agrees with a lot of camille's politics and such, but that camille takes her too seriously and doesnt see madonna's humor

btw, put camille in a room with madonna and im certain that they'll have a good talk actually, and that camille will be intimidated. just dont put a camera in that same room.

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madonna said in the early 90s (i posted an interview in another thread) that she agrees with a lot of camille's politics and such, but that camille takes her too seriously and doesnt see madonna's humor

Yep, I remember that. 

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Paglia was PISSED Madonna never wanted anything to do with her. She tried to interview M countless times and was payed dust! She was particularely P.O when Madonna opted for Norman Mailler to interview her over the proposed Paglia, for Esquire. :chuckle:

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Haven't seen the interview so far but I bet the fact that Madonna -when private- looks completely different from what we see at red carpets or onstage was overlooked and ignored again. See Malawi visits, see Cuba or Italy vacations, what in the world is not graceful about that? They always talk about her star persona which of course is a total illusion!! This whole discussion is obsolete and invalid.

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Love reading interviews & hearing Paglia viewpoints on diverse subjects. Just don't agree with her on Madonna. Feel like she missed out on Madonna's interesting & amazing output during the entire nineties & into 00s.

Also, agree with others who feel she's just too hard on Madonna. Paglia takes her way too seriously. 

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Paglia is a fan of the bygone era Madonna. Therefore everything about the Madonna of now which doesn't appease the fan she is gets thrown under the bus and set on fire. 

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I personally find that Paglia discredits herself on several occasions during this interview. She supposedly stands for women being strong, self-made warriors, and then comments like a teenage wannabe about those who do. She is a talker, not a doer. She is an observer, not a creator. She could have a few valid points with themes about not relying on tricks or looks to attract young fans (even though I don't think it was said directly) but she completely misses the point, and then drives home her internal conflict by citing her obsession with Real Housewives and the like. Are you kidding me? Madonna having plastic surgery while continuing to push buttons is somehow betrayal of her legacy, but old rich women having plastic surgery to one-up each other on a reality show is somehow a brilliant statement? In my opinion, she's shown herself to be a hack, and quite awkward with her semi-believable self deprecation and try-too-hard pandering to gay men. What the hell was that? And why does anyone care?

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