jazzyjan

Why don't other female stars defend Madonna ?

73 posts in this topic

I admit to most likely reading far too much into this but it is something I have always noticed.  Other female stars who don't receive a quarter of the hatred and criticism Madonna receive, never seem to want to defend or praise her.   Debbie Harry was interviewed for Australian Stellar magazine and the article praised Debbie in every paragraph.  I love Blondie and Debbie Harry - always have and always will.  But she has always been critical of Madonna and when she was openly given a chance to defend her, she chooses not to.  See below. 

Debbie Harry looks me straight in the eye and lets rip "  if this is the hook to sell this story and all of these pictures, it's insulting to me"  she says.  We are sitting in the lounge room of a Brooklyn apartment, as stylist and photographers pack up after Stellar's photo shoot.  

I have been asking - trying to ask - whether Debbie Harry thinks there is a double standard when commentators criticise Madonna at 58 for being too old for the music business, while few people seem to have a problem with 73 year old Mick Jagger.  Harry is about to embark on a world tour that included Australia, so it seems likely she has an opinion. 

"You are going on about this, but you are putting it in people's brains, and it becomes an  issue"  

The writer then says in another paragraph that "While Madonna carefully crafts her image,  Harry does not give a damn.   

I can see Debbie's point and she does not have to be drawn into age discussions.  However,  wouldn't it be nice if for just once,  she actually acknowledged Madonna with some kind of support or praise.  This was a perfect opportunity for her to stand up for the hatred Madonna received but she did not even want to address it or mention her name.  I have previously read in many interviews where Debbie has praised Lady Gaga and Cyndi Lauper but she never really has much time for Madonna, even though Madonna always acknowledges her and cites her as a major influence on her life.  

Anyway, it is very noticeable. I still feel kind of sad that hardly any female music stars commented on Madonna's Billboard Woman of the year speech.  I know the young stars look up to her and love her, but I feel that if any other female superstar had given that speech, most other females would be bending over backwards to praise them and agree. 

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I like her but Debbie has always been and will always be jealous of Madonna. "I would probably have been Madonna before she was if I was career-orientated and showbiz-minded." Bitch no.

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In my POV when Madonna made her woman of the year speech, she was making a very strong and powerful public denounce of how strong and blatant misogynist, sexist and objectifying the music industry is. She was making a very strong point in how it was very hard to survive the constant abuse of the industry, her peers and the media for the last 34 years. Only a very strong and powerful woman like Madonna has the balls (sorry for this analogy) to say the things like they are. In her status and the place where she is in life she has the liberty of not being afraid of making such heavy arguments against the same industry that made her. She has always been smarter and stronger and has understood the game better than anyone, a now more than ever, she´s an untouchable force that doesn't need anyone to keep making it big in whatever enterprise she embarks on. 

Whenever we show ¨solidarity¨, (which is the lack off we are trying to analyse here), we show that we are united, we are behind a common goal, we are suffering from the same circumstances that the people we are showing solidarity too is suffering, or that we have a commonality on how people have being deprived of their human rights. By showing solidarity we identify ourselves with the other, we fight or stand for the same beliefs or goals, we work together with the other and show an organic alliance to the rest of the society. I don't think that any of the lesser stars of the music industry is ready o have the guts to stand up for Madonnas or their own rights, they don't have the courage or the strength to do it, or they are simply too afraid to do it. I don't blame them, I get where they are coming from, people are to afraid to show an allegiance to any cause, they are to afraid to alter the status quo and suffer the consequences, what i don't understand is why the more powerful stars didn't say anything too. 

On the other hand we have seen that people from the most different walks of life are sharing and commenting on the same speech, they see themselves in it, so I guess that has served a purpose and mede people reflect and see things in a different light. 

 

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I think it's because she has such a strong persona that most people don't feel the need to defend her...there's a lot about her that doesn't invite sympathy or empathy.  It's made her an untouchable legend, but it also dehumanizes her.  In comparison, someone like Britney is defended at every turn cuz she's so vulnerable and projects victimhood

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14 minutes ago, loowee said:

I like her but Debbie has always been and will always be jealous of Madonna. "I would probably have been Madonna before she was if I was career-orientated and showbiz-minded." Bitch no.

LOVE LOVE LOVE Debbie Harry /Blondie! But yes let's keep it 100 Debbie will never... ever... have Madonna's back! She never liked her, why? Because she feels Madonna owes her something. It all stems from jealousy. Pure and simple.

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10 minutes ago, le smoking said:

I think it's because she has such a strong persona that most people don't feel the need to defend her...there's a lot about her that doesn't invite sympathy or empathy.  It's made her an untouchable legend, but it also dehumanizes her.  In comparison, someone like Britney is defended at every turn cuz she's so vulnerable and projects victimhood

You hit the nail on the head.  Perfect analysis.

It's not fair, but when is life fair?

 

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57 minutes ago, le smoking said:

I think it's because she has such a strong persona that most people don't feel the need to defend her...there's a lot about her that doesn't invite sympathy or empathy.  It's made her an untouchable legend, but it also dehumanizes her.  In comparison, someone like Britney is defended at every turn cuz she's so vulnerable and projects victimhood

Exactly.

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In Debby Harry case I think it's all down to jealousy. Yes as childish and stupid as it sounds I can't think of anything else. Madonna always admitted to Debby Harry to pave the way for her but maybe for Debby that's not enough and she is possibly after some royalty or something. A lot of women in the industry have always commented negatively on Madonna. If it's not pure jealousy it must be down to the fact they just don't agree with Madonna political stance or just knowing how polarising Madonna is they don't want to be associated with her in any case just so they won't be criticised themselves if that makes sense. 

Its refreshing to see there is a whole new generation of women who do appreciate Madonna and even stand by her convictions and career moves. Those women in the end will have the last laugh. 

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Sometimes is because they don't feel the need to defend her,  as she defends herself very good.  

Other times they are so jealous that they gloat in the criticism even if that is or will be a misogynistic attack against them too.  

And most of the times they are stupid and have no brains and can only giggle or move their wig fiercely. 

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Still haven't even heard that "Glass" song or whatever the title is that she (and her band?) recorded in its entirety. Other songs I do not care to know at all, she's a complete non-entity to me, just like Pud Whacker who had his account fucking deleted. 

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2 hours ago, le smoking said:

I think it's because she has such a strong persona that most people don't feel the need to defend her...there's a lot about her that doesn't invite sympathy or empathy.  It's made her an untouchable legend, but it also dehumanizes her.  In comparison, someone like Britney is defended at every turn cuz she's so vulnerable and projects victimhood

This is it.

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18 minutes ago, Crystal Coffin said:

Still haven't even heard that "Glass" song or whatever the title is that she (and her band?) recorded in its entirety. Other songs I do not care to know at all

Too bad. They've made some of the best music ever.

debbie-harry-519-o.gif

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It's something that bothers me too. And like you said, especially after her Billboard Woman of the year speech. I was expecting women (other celebrities) to say something positive about it. But I notive that many women, especially those women in her age group, often say sth negative about her. I think oftentimes it is jealously maybe. But it would be so important for women to defend each other or stick together. But what le smoking said is spot on.

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Because she doesnt need to, she doesnt need a man to defend her. Neither another less sucesfull artist because they know she is making millions anyway.

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Funny enough it's the women who DO praise Madonna or pay respect who seem to be more successful on their own and avoid comparisons, whereas the jealous and hating always get dragged into feud territory that basically defines their careers. 

If you don't wanna get asked about Madonna, just say something nice and supportive about her. Media hates it and won't bother you any longer. 

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2 hours ago, le smoking said:

I think it's because she has such a strong persona that most people don't feel the need to defend her...there's a lot about her that doesn't invite sympathy or empathy.  It's made her an untouchable legend, but it also dehumanizes her.  In comparison, someone like Britney is defended at every turn cuz she's so vulnerable and projects victimhood

What you are saying is true but it is also telling.  Britney always comes across as a victim ( without really meaning too )  but in reality,  her life has not been as horrible or tragic as Madonna's life has been.  Not trying to dismiss Britney as I know she had a break-down that was sad, but she has always been pitied and defended.  I suppose that shows Madonna's complete strength and the fact she never plays a victim but when we really look at it, she is amazing.  She lost her mother when she was six, her family life was torn apart and she had to go out and make it all by herself in New York.  Was raped and had to live in poverty in a big city.   Things others would turn into a Hallmark movie of tragedy.  

She has never become an addict or self destructed while other famous successful women in their droves have, despite having an easier childhood and life prior to becoming famous.  I know Madonna does not use what has happened to her to play a victim which I love and admire but she never gets any compassion from the press in any form.  The press openly mocked and accused her falsely of having a melt-down for being emotional on stage over the Rocco situation while other female singers would have the press sympathising and supporting them.  Instead they told her to stop touring and look after her children.   People never give her a free pass for anything, while others get them continually.  Another reason we all love her. 

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Because women are jealous of each other.....ok maybe I'm generalising  a bit, but still.

 

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i think as well Debbie hasn't been age-shamed as much as Madonna was; so in that respect, i don't think she can relate that much to this issue.

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2 hours ago, jazzyjan said:

What you are saying is true but it is also telling.  Britney always comes across as a victim ( without really meaning too )  but in reality,  her life has not been as horrible or tragic as Madonna's life has been.  Not trying to dismiss Britney as I know she had a break-down that was sad, but she has always been pitied and defended.  I suppose that shows Madonna's complete strength and the fact she never plays a victim but when we really look at it, she is amazing.  She lost her mother when she was six, her family life was torn apart and she had to go out and make it all by herself in New York.  Was raped and had to live in poverty in a big city.   Things others would turn into a Hallmark movie of tragedy.  

She has never become an addict or self destructed while other famous successful women in their droves have, despite having an easier childhood and life prior to becoming famous.  I know Madonna does not use what has happened to her to play a victim which I love and admire but she never gets any compassion from the press in any form.  The press openly mocked and accused her falsely of having a melt-down for being emotional on stage over the Rocco situation while other female singers would have the press sympathising and supporting them.  Instead they told her to stop touring and look after her children.   People never give her a free pass for anything, while others get them continually.  Another reason we all love her. 

Absolutely, all of the above

Mainly, most of the times, it all boils down to jealousy. How many high profile women and not just in music have been snarky about her? And it's not just women of course but this thread focuses on her poignant Billboard Speech and females in the music industry

Madonna has always praised women who came before her and cited them often as inspiration, the recognition hasn't always been mutual. Debbie Harry, Joni Mitchell, Chrissie Hynde ... Obviously also some of the people that started out with her or followed her had their digs, Suzanne Vega etc

I think Madonna came onto the scene at a crossroads in the industry history, and that crossroads was MTV and the visual aspect blending in with sound which she was great in understanding and utilising to complete her already perfect melodies and great pop hooks, being the 360 total artist that she is, you just need to watch her New Music Seminar speech in the summer of 84 to notice how strong her conviction on this was, there she was, this 26 yo unknown girl making a fool of a panel of established, pompous, self-referential male acts with her smarts

All those that preceded Madonna know about her genuine artistic roots, the Martha Graham/Pearl Lang connection, the band days etc and the jealousy stems from the fact that she was able to turn those credible, as unDisney like as they get origins (compared to most that followed) into one of the most bankable, mainstream and enduring careers ever, if not the most bankable mainstream and enduring one.

They also know how she famously said no to Camille when she wanted to turn her into the next Pat Benatar and there u have it bingo.

It proves how Madonna has always stuck to her guns and in a field where if you don't do as you are told they will kindly escort you to the nearest exit. Not Madonna.

And did so without marrying a powerful honcho, inheriting etc she was the honcho. That she also expressed herself through a variety of platforms and style and enjoyed critical favour and several renaissances at different stages throughout her career is just too much for some to take

I think the dead giveaway is when they start bending over backwards to praise the plagiarist, we have seen that with all the Elton one sided faux attention-seeking feuding and many other examples

Cindy Lauper recently saying Madonna was not eloquent takes the biscuit. Madonna has as much artistry and vastly more curiosity, intellect, eloquence than all of them put together in the end and the stratospheric, diverse scope of her career is not the sole testament to that

 

When did they ever, will they ever?? Never

 

Haha you're acting right now :rotfl:

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Debbie wouldn't dare to do things Madge is doing hence she's afraid to comment.

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I do understand where everybody is coming from, and I might share some of the same points of view on the things that make other woman not support Madonna, but if you ask me, if we reduce the reasons why to: jealousy, easier to defend the victim than the survivor, not being able to show sympathy or empathy, or that they are plain stupid, isn't it kind of a misogynistic argument?  The same one Madonna is hoping to fight with her recent speeches and vogue movie? I think we have to dig deeper... 

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Harry is always weird when asked about a broader insight in pop culture, not just Madonna.

She's even difficult when asked about her own massive influence on female sexuality in music.

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7 hours ago, MeakMaker said:

In Debby Harry case I think it's all down to jealousy. Yes as childish and stupid as it sounds I can't think of anything else. Madonna always admitted to Debby Harry to pave the way for her but maybe for Debby that's not enough and she is possibly after some royalty or something. A lot of women in the industry have always commented negatively on Madonna. If it's not pure jealousy it must be down to the fact they just don't agree with Madonna political stance or just knowing how polarising Madonna is they don't want to be associated with her in any case just so they won't be criticised themselves if that makes sense. 

 

Alot of older women in the business resent her because Madonna took it in a totally different direction and rewrote the book on what it means to be a female in music and these people were left in the dust unable to adapt to what became Madonna's world.  As was said on that VH1 special years ago.  Women in music can be divided into before and after Madonna.  It is obvious that just about every new female artist starting from Britney's era onwards adores and worships the hell out of her.  That chick that wrote don't know what you got till it's gone.  Name escapes me right now.  Another bitter nelly who has said negative things about Madonna.  Jealous because Madonna started a new party in the world of music and she wasn't invited. 

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5 minutes ago, Skin said:

That chick that wrote don't know what you got till it's gone.  Name escapes me right now.  

JONI fucking MITCHELL :rotfl: 

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Just now, Crystal Coffin said:

JONI fucking MITCHELL :rotfl: 

There you go. Lol

  Total brain fart and too lazy to Google. Lol

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