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Roland Barthes

France Elects Emmanuel Macron

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58 minutes ago, elijah said:

And also the mass migration and terrorist attacks. I think Brexit and Trump in a way are a vote against globalization/rise of terror/arrival of many muslims that do not want to integrate within the society. And impoverishment, which is a result in a way of globalization and the fact that there is no communism in  Eastern Europe nowadays which was the reason for a lot of social rights and freedoms to be granted in the West.

The thing is that the EU had the opportunity to have the best inner market in the world and could have been independent of the rest of the world but greed made them close down factories in East Europe and now all comes from fucking China.  in the long run China is affecting much more than immigration or whatever: we are competing against a country where there's a dictature that allows slavery.  

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5 minutes ago, karbatal said:

 

The thing is that the EU had the opportunity to have the best inner market in the world and could have been independent of the rest of the world but greed made them close down factories in East Europe and now all comes from fucking China.  in the long run China is affecting much more than immigration or whatever: we are competing against a country where there's a dictature that allows slavery.  

Yes, that 2, but I think the cultural change and terror within a generation has a lot to do with the rise of far right

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I don't think so. Immigration hasn't been a problem at all in the EU until the crisis and the cuttings started and people felt that they got less and less money. Very cleverly orchestrated, some parties have blamed immigration, even though immigrants have nothing to do with our economy being poorer. In fact, immigrants help economy boost and are like fresh air in every system. 

About terrorism... I always think this is part of the orchestrated campaing. EU is not more dangerous now than 5 years ago, and yet it seems as if there's bombings everywhere, which is a lie. 

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52 minutes ago, karbatal said:

I don't think so. Immigration hasn't been a problem at all in the EU until the crisis and the cuttings started and people felt that they got less and less money. Very cleverly orchestrated, some parties have blamed immigration, even though immigrants have nothing to do with our economy being poorer. In fact, immigrants help economy boost and are like fresh air in every system. 

About terrorism... I always think this is part of the orchestrated campaing. EU is not more dangerous now than 5 years ago, and yet it seems as if there's bombings everywhere, which is a lie. 

Sorry but I don't agree. Having ghettos everywhere in the eu is not helping the economy and are not a breath of fresh air. The emigration policies should be rethought and in eu should be allowed ppl that respect devision between state and religion. There are a lot of ppl like that from the Middle East. In my opinion there is definite rise of terrorism in eu even compared to 5 years ago. Maybe it doesn't feel like that in Spain Tnx to the basque 

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We are not having guettos everywhere in the EU, Elijah. You and I have a very different vision about immigration. In most countries in the EU, there's a national law so anybody who has a work permit has the right to learn the language for free. And once the learn the language, they are independet to move and look for better jobs. In Spain we have no guettos, for example, even though we have millions of immigrants. 

The situation in France is far different, but that's that particular countries. There are not as many guettos for example in UK or Germany. Sometimes there may be some problems, but it's not the case. 

The rise of terrorism is because of the extreme situation in North Africa, because some CUNTS like Obama and Putin decided to go there and fuck everything. But immigrants are not to blame. Remember that most terrorists were French born or Belgian born. 

About immigrants from Middle East in Europe, they are a minority. 

 

1. Migrants in the EU 

File:Foreign-born residents, by place of birth, EU-28, 2011 (¹) (% of foreign-born population) PF15.png

 

2. Where do they come from? 

File:Top 20 foreign-born communities living in the EU-28, 2011 PF15.png

 

I read some article about what do people in different EU contries think about muslims and they thought they were like 20% of popultion, while in fact: 

 

Self-described religion in the European Union (2012)[1]

  Catholic (48%)
  Protestant (12%)
  Orthodox (8%)
  Other Christian (4%)
  Non believer/Agnostic (16%)
  Atheist (7%)
  Muslim (2%)
  Other religion/None stated (3%)
 
PEOPLE, there's a campaing against Middle East and against muslims. DO NOT BELIEVE BAD JOURNALISM! 

 

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5 hours ago, karbatal said:

We are not having guettos everywhere in the EU, Elijah. You and I have a very different vision about immigration. In most countries in the EU, there's a national law so anybody who has a work permit has the right to learn the language for free. And once the learn the language, they are independet to move and look for better jobs. In Spain we have no guettos, for example, even though we have millions of immigrants. 

The situation in France is far different, but that's that particular countries. There are not as many guettos for example in UK or Germany. Sometimes there may be some problems, but it's not the case. 

The rise of terrorism is because of the extreme situation in North Africa, because some CUNTS like Obama and Putin decided to go there and fuck everything. But immigrants are not to blame. Remember that most terrorists were French born or Belgian born. 

About immigrants from Middle East in Europe, they are a minority. 

 

1. Migrants in the EU 

File:Foreign-born residents, by place of birth, EU-28, 2011 (¹) (% of foreign-born population) PF15.png

 

2. Where do they come from? 

File:Top 20 foreign-born communities living in the EU-28, 2011 PF15.png

 

I read some article about what do people in different EU contries think about muslims and they thought they were like 20% of popultion, while in fact: 

 

Self-described religion in the European Union (2012)[1]

  Catholic (48%)
  Protestant (12%)
  Orthodox (8%)
  Other Christian (4%)
  Non believer/Agnostic (16%)
  Atheist (7%)
  Muslim (2%)
  Other religion/None stated (3%)
 
PEOPLE, there's a campaing against Middle East and against muslims. DO NOT BELIEVE BAD JOURNALISM! 

 

I have seen the situation firsthand in France, Germany, Netherlands. You either want to see it or not. I know you are well travelled, but maybe you haven't been to those exact places recently? I m not against those ppl per se, but I m against ppl so keen on their religion, they act illological. For example a friend who works as a nurse in France and wears a cross told me that an arab woman (wearing a hijab) refused to let her help her undress until she removes her cross. She refused. 

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I am sorry, Elijah, but there's stupid people everywhere. It's as if I tell you that some white man in Antwerp refused to sit next to a black man in the bus. Does it make the whole white men in Netherlands stupid or racists? 

There's a big interest in portrait some certain countries and a certain religion as potential killers, and that is not the case. And I speak from a country where Moroccan immigrants muslims killed moer than 200 people in a terror attack. 

I am not saying there are not guettos or problems, for example that neiborhood in Brussels where the terrorists came from, or certain neiborhoods in France (Marseilles, for example). I don't deny that. I deny that the problems in the EU are because of inmigration or muslims. The only people who are making people live worse are nationals with ties and money in the bank: bankers and politicians. 

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3 minutes ago, karbatal said:

I am sorry, Elijah, but there's stupid people everywhere. It's as if I tell you that some white man in Antwerp refused to sit next to a black man in the bus. Does it make the whole white men in Netherlands stupid or racists? 

There's a big interest in portrait some certain countries and a certain religion as potential killers, and that is not the case. And I speak from a country where Moroccan immigrants muslims killed moer than 200 people in a terror attack. 

I agree about generalisation, but it seems like the muslims tend to be more religious as a whole and to live more segregated compared to other groups. Of course there are so many exceptions but still.

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Just now, karbatal said:

I am sorry, Elijah, but there's stupid people everywhere. It's as if I tell you that some white man in Antwerp refused to sit next to a black man in the bus. Does it make the whole white men in Netherlands stupid or racists? 

There's a big interest in portrait some certain countries and a certain religion as potential killers, and that is not the case. And I speak from a country where Moroccan immigrants muslims killed moer than 200 people in a terror attack. 

I am not saying there are not guettos or problems, for example that neiborhood in Brussels where the terrorists came from, or certain neiborhoods in France (Marseilles, for example). I don't deny that. I deny that the problems in the EU are because of inmigration or muslims. The only people who are making people live worse are nationals with ties and money in the bank: bankers and politicians. 

amen!

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What happened in London yesterday, where innocent European bystanders were hit including some French students, will give Le Pen all the more reason to be chosen. While the attack was not of a scale as big as the Madrid train bombings 13 years ago and the attack in Nice last summer for example, when shit like this happens right wing assholes use it to their advantage to stake their claim, and people buy it out of fear.

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4 hours ago, pjcowley said:

What happened in London yesterday, where innocent European bystanders were hit including some French students, will give Le Pen all the more reason to be chosen. While the attack was not of a scale as big as the Madrid train bombings 13 years ago and the attack in Nice last summer for example, when shit like this happens right wing assholes use it to their advantage to stake their claim, and people buy it out of fear.

Unfortunately yes. Makes you wonder why it happens now, especially after what happened in the Netherlands with Wilders getting less votes than expected. But I don't want to move onto conspiracy territory...

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5 hours ago, Lolo said:

Unfortunately yes. Makes you wonder why it happens now, especially after what happened in the Netherlands with Wilders getting less votes than expected. But I don't want to move onto conspiracy territory...

yeap, its fucking disgusting if its planned of ppl that want the victory of far right...

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12 hours ago, pjcowley said:

What happened in London yesterday, where innocent European bystanders were hit including some French students, will give Le Pen all the more reason to be chosen. While the attack was not of a scale as big as the Madrid train bombings 13 years ago and the attack in Nice last summer for example, when shit like this happens right wing assholes use it to their advantage to stake their claim, and people buy it out of fear.

Unfortunately you're right. 

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10 hours ago, Lolo said:

Unfortunately yes. Makes you wonder why it happens now, especially after what happened in the Netherlands with Wilders getting less votes than expected. But I don't want to move onto conspiracy territory...

Of course it makes you wonder - the questions are: who benefits from inflicting pain and suffering to defenseless civilians? Who fund these attackers? Who benefits really from generating a climate of fear?

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Terrorism is politically convenient.  

And governments use them to spread propaganda. 

They kept silent about the nationality even though they knew it.  If the man had been a refugee it would have made the news in five minutes.  

 

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Migration will be a bigger challenge in the future with climate migrants from Asia. We europeans fucked up all these regions with colonization and took what they had (oil, gas...) for centuries. What should be done now to avoid huge waves of migrations Europe can't accomodate is to help these countries (democraticnes) to build their own economy. There should be a law forcing huge foreign companies like Total or a billionnaire like Bollore (i give french examples) making all their money in Africa to pay huge taxes their, to create REAL jobs and hire locals. We should also stop from telling muslims countries what to do and forcing democracy on them if they did not ask for it. In France we don't only have migrants from Africa and North Africa but also from balkans and Pakistan (a lot from Sri Lanka too). They should know that there is nothing waiting for them in Europe anymore and they probably won't be living better lives than the ones they had in their native countries. 

At the moment there is a gang of 25 kids under 12 from Morocco living in the streets of Montmartre terrorizing the neighborhood and tourists, out of control because they sniff glue all day. They came from Spain. There should be a better control and prosecution against traffickers making money on the back of these migrants. There's also a huge demographic crisis in Africa with its population exploding because births are not controlled (THANKS to people like the pope telling them not to use condoms...not only they are facing terrible STDs, AIDS but also unwanted pregnancies). We should help them to live better lives home (because they don't come here for their own pleasure, it's terrible to leave your country to encounter extreme poverty in a climate you are not accustomed to and people hating you) they'd rather stay home if they could make a living there. Thing is they can't make a living here either. What is never talked about is how many migrants go back when they see that their european dream is in fact a nightmare.

We live in a world where money is not shared equally, the rich are super mega rich and getting richer while destroying the middle class and people are getting poorer and poorer. That's the real problem. the world economy only benefits very few and fucks up a lot of people.

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44 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Terrorism is politically convenient.  

And governments use them to spread propaganda. 

They kept silent about the nationality even though they knew it.  If the man had been a refugee it would have made the news in five minutes.  

 

yet he was a radicalized muslim: hardly he felt he was part of the "British mainstream". There must have been 2 way segregation.

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Well he was born in Kent.  He's as British as Theresa May. 

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10 hours ago, Roland Barthes said:

Migration will be a bigger challenge in the future with climate migrants from Asia. We europeans fucked up all these regions with colonization and took what they had (oil, gas...) for centuries. What should be done now to avoid huge waves of migrations Europe can't accomodate is to help these countries (democraticnes) to build their own economy. There should be a law forcing huge foreign companies like Total or a billionnaire like Bollore (i give french examples) making all their money in Africa to pay huge taxes their, to create REAL jobs and hire locals. We should also stop from telling muslims countries what to do and forcing democracy on them if they did not ask for it. In France we don't only have migrants from Africa and North Africa but also from balkans and Pakistan (a lot from Sri Lanka too). They should know that there is nothing waiting for them in Europe anymore and they probably won't be living better lives than the ones they had in their native countries. 

At the moment there is a gang of 25 kids under 12 from Morocco living in the streets of Montmartre terrorizing the neighborhood and tourists, out of control because they sniff glue all day. They came from Spain. There should be a better control and prosecution against traffickers making money on the back of these migrants. There's also a huge demographic crisis in Africa with its population exploding because births are not controlled (THANKS to people like the pope telling them not to use condoms...not only they are facing terrible STDs, AIDS but also unwanted pregnancies). We should help them to live better lives home (because they don't come here for their own pleasure, it's terrible to leave your country to encounter extreme poverty in a climate you are not accustomed to and people hating you) they'd rather stay home if they could make a living there. Thing is they can't make a living here either. What is never talked about is how many migrants go back when they see that their european dream is in fact a nightmare.

We live in a world where money is not shared equally, the rich are super mega rich and getting richer while destroying the middle class and people are getting poorer and poorer. That's the real problem. the world economy only benefits very few and fucks up a lot of people.

Yes to all.  

 

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Even a Thriving French Shipyard Town Falls Under Le Pen’s Spell

Saint-Nazaire embodies successful globalization — and yet the National Front has found an audience.

Z

The heart of Saint-Nazaire’s economy can be seen from almost anywhere in town: The MSC Meraviglia cruise ship towers over the French port from the STX shipyard where it’s being built. The Korean-owned company’s order books are full for the next decade.

With shipyards and aerospace factories booming from export production, Saint-Nazaire embodies successful globalization. This city on the Loire River estuary to the Atlantic, which has tended to vote for leftist parties, is an unlikely place for the fearmongering message of Marine Le Pen, the far-right National Front presidential candidate.

Yet local National Front officials and the town’s Socialist mayor both expect Le Pen to do better than ever in the city when the French go to the polls April 23 to begin electing their next president. Anger over large numbers of foreign workers at the shipyard, concerns about a looming change of its ownership, disgust with traditional politicians and Le Pen’s general message that France has lost its sovereignty all have taken hold here.

“Saint-Nazaire is hardly a town in crisis. It’s an example of successful industrial renewal,” said Goulven Boudic, a political science professor at the nearby University of Nantes. “But the National Front has turned it into a land of conquest by raising concerns about the shipyard’s future, and by using the argument that foreign workers are taking bread away from French workers.”

Jean-Claude Blanchard, one of three National Front members on the 49-person city council, sits in his basement office in city hall and shows a chart illustrating the party’s upward progression. The Front took just 6.4 percent in Saint-Nazaire in the 2010 regional elections and Le Pen did poorly there in the 2012 presidential vote, getting just 12 percent compared with 18 percent nationally.

Then 2014 local elections saw the Front, known by its French initials of FN, take 13 percent and win city council seats for the first time. The party’s score rose to 18 percent in the 2015 regional elections, while its national tally was 28 percent.

“Industrially, our town has never done better,” said Saint-Nazaire mayor David Samzun, a Socialist like every one of his elected predecessors going back to the 1920s. “But sadly, the FN has risen in every election and I expect them to do better again this time. They feed on fears, on the general malaise in this country.”

He attributed Le Pen’s rise to her message that France shouldn’t be dictated to by the European Union. In Saint-Nazaire, that translates to concern over workers from EU countries at the STX shipyard. Mostly from eastern Europe, they labor under short-term contracts that allow them to be paid what they would get back home, far below French wage levels.

Le Pen wants a clause added to the constitution giving preference to French citizens in jobs and welfare protection. She’s also called for a surtax on companies that hire non-French workers, imposition of import duties and withdrawal from free-trade pacts — including the EU. Polls show she’ll easily take one of the top two spots in the April 23 first round of voting, but will lose the May 7 runoff to independent Emmanuel Macron, who favors EU membership and free trade.

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The Saint-Nazaire area, which has about 220,000 inhabitants, has been the French center for passenger-boat construction since the 19th century. The town was totally rebuilt after World War II, when allied aviation pummeled it in attempts to destroy a German submarine base at the port. 9k=

After brushes with near collapse in the 1970s and 1980s, the shipyard was reborn as one of only six in the world — all of them in Europe — that make cruise ships. An adjacent Airbus SE factory employs 2,800 people to assemble airplane fuselages that are then sent off to other Airbus factories in France and Germany, which themselves have a 10-year backlog.

Blanchard, a former welder at the shipyard, began his political career as a Trotskyist before shifting to the far right. Crime and Islamic terrorism, major national subjects for Le Pen, aren’t issues in Saint-Nazaire. The town doesn’t have a crime problem and the town’s three mosques blend in with the local community, he said.

But in addition to the concern over foreign workers, the shipyard’s majority owner, Korea’s STX Offshore & Shipbuilding, is in bankruptcy and being forced to sell. The FN has responded by calling for the nationalization of the shipyard, whereas the government is negotiating with the only bidder that’s emerged, rival Fincantieri SpA of Italy.

Blanchard says as many as 40 percent of the 7,000 employees at the shipyard are foreigners working on so-called detached contracts. STX says between 15 and 30 percent of the shipyard’s employees work under that status.

There are an estimated 300,000 detached workers in France, and all five major candidates in the presidential election say they favor tightening the rules to make sure they don’t undercut French wages and standards. The minimum wage in France is about 1,480 euros ($1,582) a month. In Poland, it’s about 450 euros.

“The FN is going to get a good score at the election, that’s for sure,” says Chantal Nuyaouet, tending bar at Le Bresil, a cafe across from the shipyard’s entrance. “All the time I hear the complaint that foreign workers are holding down salaries for the French.”

Pedro, a 43-year-old pipefitter from northern Portugal having an after-work drink with three French colleagues, said he’s worked at refineries, shipyards and dairies in France, Germany and the U.K. over the past five years. He says he’s never felt hostility from his French colleagues, unlike in Britain, but knows there are tensions. The minimum wage in Portugal is 650 euros a month. 

Samuel, a 36-year-old French colleague, says he has nothing against the detached workers, but resents the fact that the subcontractor they work for seeks cheap labor from across Europe. He says he’d never vote FN, but hears other workers say they will. Both declined to allow their family names to be used because otherwise they couldn't speak freely about their employer.

Hiring only French workers might make sense if France produced enough people with the right skills, said Christophe Morel, a 54-year-old delegate of the CFDT labor union. “The FN is rising here because they’ve abused the issue of detached workers to scare people,” he said. “But the problem is that successive French authorities have devalued manual work.”

On Avenue Penhoet leading to the entrance to the shipyards, six interim work agencies all have notices in their windows stamped “Urgent.” They are seeking electricians, industrial painters, welders, pipefitters and boilermakers. 

“It’s not an easy problem to fix,” said Pascal Saget, the 56-year-old manager of the local office of Axelis, a Lyon-based temporary-employment firm. “Factories here could never survive without importing workers, but that doesn’t create much of an incentive for a French kid to take up one of those professions.”

The lack of qualified workers means Saint-Nazaire’s unemployment rate of about 8.5 percent, compared with 10 percent nationally, isn’t as low as it should be given all the activity, Samzun, the mayor said. He’s started working with local job centers to provide training, but it takes about four years to produce a qualified worker in most fields.

“Poles, Lithuanians, Romanians, they all come from countries with a serious shipbuilding tradition,” said Morel. “But that’s a point lost on FN voters.”

This is the first in a series of stories on French populism.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-04-03/even-a-thriving-french-shipyard-town-falls-under-le-pen-s-spell

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We're just a week away and i still don't know whom i will vote for but i nonetheless now whom i WON'T vote for. To sum it up they ALL are crap and ALL have dangerous things in their programs regarding different subjects. I'm reduced to chose what i'm willing to sacrifice.

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What do you think about Melanchon? Does he have any chance?

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