Jump to content
MadonnaNation.com Forums
Pedro

Trump / US politics thread 🚽

Recommended Posts

7 minutes ago, Raider of the lost Ark said:

Sorry, that's a very ignorant statement because you automatically shut down any discussion that may be fruitful to either party. And since you have mentioned healthcare, my country introduced universal healthcare in the 1880s. It's working for almost 140 years now. For everyone involved. For employers, for employees, for unemployed, for retired people, for children and this list goes on. If you don't call that a rousing success than I don't know what. And it's way cheaper than the U.S. system. Again for everyone involved.

Furthermore I would like to add that from my experience, people in Europe, in general, know much more about and are way more interested in the U.S.,  politics and culture, than Americans, up to the point that I think average Europeans many times know more about the things going on in the U.S. than average U.S. citizens themselves. Just as way more Europeans have visited the U.S. than Americans have visited Europe (well, who needs to see the Eiffel Tower or take a gondola ride in Venice when you have imitations in Las Vegas or why visit Neuschwanstein Castle when you can find an imitation in Orlando, FL and Anaheim, CA). Again, Europeans seem to be way more interested to get to know the U.S. than Americans are interested in Europe. I do think the majority of Americans live a very isolated life. A fact I also blame on the media in the U.S. Compared to them the European media is reporting on things in the U.S., not just politics, to a great extent. I find it kind of insulting that you say, the "hollier than you Europeans" when many many Americans know nothing about us but dare to have opinions about things like our welfare systems and defense.

Sure, we can have discussion, but most of this hasn't been discussion, it's judgment.  No one's side is more correct.  It's the people IN a country who get to try to influence domestic policy though.  It may work in your country, but just copy/pasting won't work for the US for many reasons, not the least of which is because the US is a capitalist society with a capitalist healthcare system that is largely privately owned.  The infrastructure isn't in place for a true socialized medicine system.  Not to mention the corporate lobbies and private interest groups that would prevent centralization from ever taking place.  That's what I mean from an outside perspective.  Sure, you can think you know what goes on in another country, but unless you have lived there, you DON'T know.  You only have your perspective, largely shaped by YOUR media.  There is no universal truth.

Yes, there is one side that loses in your example.  The healthcare industry itself.  No, none of us may think that it's important, but without the capitalist medicine coming up with much of the technological advances, there wouldn't be basic medicine to offer.  Or why is much of the top medical talent in the US and people come here when they need life saving procedures?  Unfortunately, it's difficult to separate the two.  Yes, there is much to be improved within the healthcare industry, but extremes on either side are no good.

We aren't actually fighting against different things.  It's the nuances of policy that are lost, and where even Democrats and Republicans think they have to take a straight partisan view to an issue, that results in a lack of an acceptable solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, rebelvvv said:

Jazzy, I do agree with you on these points, but the point lost is that people are saying that anyone against the ACA (Obamacare) is against health care in general.  The system we have now isn't any better than the one we had before, and is in fact, worse, because it still leaves all the leverage with the corporations.  It's not actual socialized medicine, it's a forced opt-in to capitalist medicine, which doesn't work for anyone.  No one, on either side, said that health care should leave people untreated in the streets.  As long as health care is currently decentralized though, it's never going to work the way that people idealistically think.  The fact is it needs reform.  It's not an extreme of one way or another.

Yes, Corporations sadly have too much say in how we live.  They have too much power and influence in politics, banking and always halt progress and reform.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, rebelvvv said:

Yes, there is one side that loses in your example.  The healthcare industry itself.  No, none of us may think that it's important, but without the capitalist medicine coming up with much of the technological advances, there wouldn't be basic medicine to offer.  Or why is much of the top medical talent in the US and people come here when they need life saving procedures?  Unfortunately, it's difficult to separate the two.  Yes, there is much to be improved within the healthcare industry, but extremes on either side are no good.

 

The "capitalist medicine" example is really flawed considering that many research and medical inventions were done when capitalism didn't even exist. The "basic medicine" you are talking about was established when scientists (not managers) were doing research on viruses and bacteria, on hygiene etc. Those scientists almost exclusively did research and taught at universities in relation to hospitals. No insurance company was involved in this progress. And not much has changed ever since. Most studies are done by scientists working at university labs and hospitals. Yes, now much of the financing of projects comes from medical and chemical companies when they see that there is a profit to make. But again, it's not their research or invention. Technically speaking. And to stress the fact, they are only involved when they see a profit after all. They don't care about diseases that only a few thousand people suffer from. And, there is just as much medical talent working at hospitals in France, Great Britain and Germany just as much as people from around the world come to these countries to have operations done there. This is not exclusive to the U.S. When it comes to health tourism the people go where they can get the best treatment for their particular problem and sometimes this is not in the U.S. Although I think they certainly can get the most expensive treatment there. I'm still shaking my head in disbelief when I think about the invoice Webogirl (I think it was her) was presented with when she had to have an emergency operation to have her appendix removed. I think to remember it was something around 30.000 dollars. Let's talk about immoral.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what's Trumpet's options now that the federal court has suspended his ban? Can it be overturned again? Does it go to the supreme court?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had to puke while reading the Arkansas law approach

Just disgusting !

Dump makes America great. Its going back 300 years back. Soon they gonna live like the amish peops there.

Bad times are awaiting the poor american people.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, jaron said:

I had to puke while reading the Arkansas law approach

Just disgusting !

Dump makes America great. Its going back 300 years back. Soon they gonna live like the amish peops there.

Bad times are awaiting the poor american people.

 

The poor American people has no option but to rise up and have a revolution or forever hold their peace. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, rebelvvv said:

I agree with your freedom of speech and right to have your opinions.  Just as people shouldn't be surprised if not everyone agrees with said opinions, respectfully.  When certain posters resort time and again to personal insults as a way to refute dissent, it only proves how loony they are.  Personally, non-American opinions of US domestic policy as outsiders looking in has little relevance to me, just as my opinion about UK and European domestic policy as an American would have to you, so I don't tend to waste my time on it.  But to each their own.

And instead you should be more open to what a "non American" has to say about the US. It sounds like some people who say that since you're not an American citizen you don't understand American politics or worse don't have any right to comment on it, which is such an ignorant proposition considering the US political system conditions everything else in the world. You have talked about an holier than thou attitude but if you read most of your latest posts in this thread you can agree that the holier than thou language is in fact coming from you, not to mention the fact that your recollection of historical events is somewhat partial, inaccurate and extremely simplistic in regards to NATO, the two world wars and what essentially was a transfer of power from the old British Empire's might to the role that the United States has been playing in the world since 1945

Europe as a whole and then gradually what came to be referred to as the political body of the EU became a colony of the US in foreign policy matters. That was the precondition negotiated to receive support during WW2.

To this day you can see that with the dirty handlings of the US government with Russia. When in 2014 a George Soros sponsored faux pro Western military coup guaranteed Western leaders to substract Ukraine's from the sphere of Russian influence. Which prompted Russia to take back Crimea. Enters the sanctions that the US authorities so adamantly wanted and their European lackeys so reluctantly implemented because they are only hurting EU citizens businesses, not American interests for sure.

The US (when I say the US I mean the gov, not its people, who just like in Europe are bipartizanly manipulated) are in fear of the Euroasian partnership that (to them) is threatening to connect Bejing through Moscow to Europe. And essentially regime change in countries like Syria and Iran (the only two countries to resist American imperialistic games in the region) is what this fear all plays out into. Cut to the nasty elephant in the room which is Salafism and Saudi Arabia "friends" of the West, need say no more

You really nailed a lot of truths with the Obama posts. How is presidency was in fact a shoe in for Trump's (sans the "political incorrectness") from the word go when you look at policies implemented on warfare, terrorism, domestic security, banking favours. And how people get caught up and lost in ideological labels without realising that apparently opposite sides work in fact for common (sinister) goals. But I don't think you really understand how the European welfare system works and not everything that sees an intervention from the State is Satan's work. Obamacare was nothing like a European welfare system by the way

I agree though that Obamacare was a scam which instead gave even more power to insurers. Obama was working all along for the same Goldman Sachs folks that you now see in Trump's cabinet and Hillary, even worse.

Now this doesn't obviously mean Trump is right either. As Alibaba's chief recently said at Davos, the US middle classes haven't been crushed by the Chinese or Mexicans taking away their jobs, they have been crushed by US companies taking jobs abroad to make even more money on this perverse version of globalisation aided by both Right and Left wing parties EVERYWHERE.

Furthermore rather than spending trillions and trillions of dollars on endless wars justified by lies and a blatant manipulation of US taxpayers perception and even engineering criminal events to justify that kind of violent interventionism, money should be invested on education and infrastructure and not having a $100k a year university outrageous rip off system where the same usual suspects will be educated just so that they can run things the way they've always been run once they come out of it

The whole USA USA chanting mentality or Make America Great Again rethoric is a misleading and mendacious one to begin with. And in the end it is only detrimental to Americans themselves the most, of any political persuasion. Because they lend themselves to this sort of blind faith in supposed American Exceptionalism which by all accounts simply isn't there.

Especially when you take into account how many of its citizens are blissfully unaware of what goes on beyond its borders.

We should instead ask ourselves "what is it that makes America great". When I was growing up I used to idolize the US exactly because of its freedom of speech values and its social mobility. Well, that social mobility has been steadfastly tarnished, almost to the point of suppression and as for freedom of speech it's clearly dead, 9/11 changed everything and gave more room to the powers that be to do all they please without a shred of plausibility, credibility and most of all accountability. See Patriot Act chapter for starters and all the rest. Orwellian to say the least

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Melissa McCarthy as WH press secretary Sean Spicer! :rotfl: Give her an Emmy now! 😭 😭 😭

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, XXL said:

And instead you should be more open to what a "non American" has to say about the US. It sounds like some people who say that since you're not an American citizen you don't understand American politics or worse don't have any right to comment on it, which is such an ignorant proposition considering the US political system conditions everything else in the world. You have talked about an holier than thou attitude but if you read most of your latest posts in this thread you can agree that the holier than thou language is in fact coming from you, not to mention the fact that your recollection of historical events is somewhat partial, inaccurate and extremely simplistic in regards to NATO, the two world wars and what essentially was a transfer of power from the old British Empire's might to the role that the United States has been playing in the world since 1945

Europe as a whole and then gradually what came to be referred to as the political body of the EU became a colony of the US in foreign policy matters. That was the precondition negotiated to receive support during WW2.

To this day you can see that with the dirty handlings of the US government with Russia. When in 2014 a George Soros sponsored faux pro Western military coup guaranteed Western leaders to substract Ukraine's from the sphere of Russian influence. Which prompted Russia to take back Crimea. Enters the sanctions that the US authorities so adamantly wanted and their European lackeys so reluctantly implemented because they are only hurting EU citizens businesses, not American interests for sure.

The US (when I say the US I mean the gov, not its people, who just like in Europe are bipartizanly manipulated) are in fear of the Euroasian partnership that (to them) is threatening to connect Bejing through Moscow to Europe. And essentially regime change in countries like Syria and Iran (the only two countries to resist American imperialistic games in the region) is what this fear all plays out into. Cut to the nasty elephant in the room which is Salafism and Saudi Arabia "friends" of the West, need say no more

You really nailed a lot of truths with the Obama posts. How is presidency was in fact a shoe in for Trump's (sans the "political incorrectness") from the word go when you look at policies implemented on warfare, terrorism, domestic security, banking favours. And how people get caught up and lost in ideological labels without realising that apparently opposite sides work in fact for common (sinister) goals. But I don't think you really understand how the European welfare system works and not everything that sees an intervention from the State is Satan's work. Obamacare was nothing like a European welfare system by the way

I agree though that Obamacare was a scam which instead gave even more power to insurers. Obama was working all along for the same Goldman Sachs folks that you now see in Trump's cabinet and Hillary, even worse.

Now this doesn't obviously mean Trump is right either. As Alibaba's chief recently said at Davos, the US middle classes haven't been crushed by the Chinese or Mexicans taking away their jobs, they have been crushed by US companies taking jobs abroad to make even more money on this perverse version of globalisation aided by both Right and Left wing parties EVERYWHERE.

Furthermore rather than spending trillions and trillions of dollars on endless wars justified by lies and a blatant manipulation of US taxpayers perception and even engineering criminal events to justify that kind of violent interventionism, money should be invested on education and infrastructure and not having a $100k a year university outrageous rip off system where the same usual suspects will be educated just so that they can run things the way they've always been run once they come out of it

The whole USA USA chanting mentality or Make America Great Again rethoric is a misleading and mendacious one to begin with. And in the end it is only detrimental to Americans themselves the most, of any political persuasion. Because they lend themselves to this sort of blind faith in supposed American Exceptionalism which by all accounts simply isn't there.

Especially when you take into account how many of its citizens are blissfully unaware of what goes on beyond its borders.

We should instead ask ourselves "what is it that makes America great". When I was growing up I used to idolize the US exactly because of its freedom of speech values and its social mobility. Well, that social mobility has been steadfastly tarnished, almost to the point of suppression and as for freedom of speech it's clearly dead, 9/11 changed everything and gave more room to the powers that be to do all they please without a shred of plausibility, credibility and most of all accountability. See Patriot Act chapter for starters and all the rest. Orwellian to say the least

This is such a wonderful post. Wonderful. 

If only we were taught in schools to be critical and to inform ourselves correctly,  they couldn't manipulate us so much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, XXL said:

And instead you should be more open to what a "non American" has to say about the US. It sounds like some people who say that since you're not an American citizen you don't understand American politics or worse don't have any right to comment on it, which is such an ignorant proposition considering the US political system conditions everything else in the world. You have talked about an holier than thou attitude but if you read most of your latest posts in this thread you can agree that the holier than thou language is in fact coming from you, not to mention the fact that your recollection of historical events is somewhat partial, inaccurate and extremely simplistic in regards to NATO, the two world wars and what essentially was a transfer of power from the old British Empire's might to the role that the United States has been playing in the world since 1945

Europe as a whole and then gradually what came to be referred to as the political body of the EU became a colony of the US in foreign policy matters. That was the precondition negotiated to receive support during WW2.

To this day you can see that with the dirty handlings of the US government with Russia. When in 2014 a George Soros sponsored faux pro Western military coup guaranteed Western leaders to substract Ukraine's from the sphere of Russian influence. Which prompted Russia to take back Crimea. Enters the sanctions that the US authorities so adamantly wanted and their European lackeys so reluctantly implemented because they are only hurting EU citizens businesses, not American interests for sure.

The US (when I say the US I mean the gov, not its people, who just like in Europe are bipartizanly manipulated) are in fear of the Euroasian partnership that (to them) is threatening to connect Bejing through Moscow to Europe. And essentially regime change in countries like Syria and Iran (the only two countries to resist American imperialistic games in the region) is what this fear all plays out into. Cut to the nasty elephant in the room which is Salafism and Saudi Arabia "friends" of the West, need say no more

You really nailed a lot of truths with the Obama posts. How is presidency was in fact a shoe in for Trump's (sans the "political incorrectness") from the word go when you look at policies implemented on warfare, terrorism, domestic security, banking favours. And how people get caught up and lost in ideological labels without realising that apparently opposite sides work in fact for common (sinister) goals. But I don't think you really understand how the European welfare system works and not everything that sees an intervention from the State is Satan's work. Obamacare was nothing like a European welfare system by the way

I agree though that Obamacare was a scam which instead gave even more power to insurers. Obama was working all along for the same Goldman Sachs folks that you now see in Trump's cabinet and Hillary, even worse.

Now this doesn't obviously mean Trump is right either. As Alibaba's chief recently said at Davos, the US middle classes haven't been crushed by the Chinese or Mexicans taking away their jobs, they have been crushed by US companies taking jobs abroad to make even more money on this perverse version of globalisation aided by both Right and Left wing parties EVERYWHERE.

Furthermore rather than spending trillions and trillions of dollars on endless wars justified by lies and a blatant manipulation of US taxpayers perception and even engineering criminal events to justify that kind of violent interventionism, money should be invested on education and infrastructure and not having a $100k a year university outrageous rip off system where the same usual suspects will be educated just so that they can run things the way they've always been run once they come out of it

The whole USA USA chanting mentality or Make America Great Again rethoric is a misleading and mendacious one to begin with. And in the end it is only detrimental to Americans themselves the most, of any political persuasion. Because they lend themselves to this sort of blind faith in supposed American Exceptionalism which by all accounts simply isn't there.

Especially when you take into account how many of its citizens are blissfully unaware of what goes on beyond its borders.

We should instead ask ourselves "what is it that makes America great". When I was growing up I used to idolize the US exactly because of its freedom of speech values and its social mobility. Well, that social mobility has been steadfastly tarnished, almost to the point of suppression and as for freedom of speech it's clearly dead, 9/11 changed everything and gave more room to the powers that be to do all they please without a shred of plausibility, credibility and most of all accountability. See Patriot Act chapter for starters and all the rest. Orwellian to say the least

Thank you babe! Very great, intelligent and articulate post! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, XXL said:

And instead you should be more open to what a "non American" has to say about the US. It sounds like some people who say that since you're not an American citizen you don't understand American politics or worse don't have any right to comment on it, which is such an ignorant proposition considering the US political system conditions everything else in the world. You have talked about an holier than thou attitude but if you read most of your latest posts in this thread you can agree that the holier than thou language is in fact coming from you, not to mention the fact that your recollection of historical events is somewhat partial, inaccurate and extremely simplistic in regards to NATO, the two world wars and what essentially was a transfer of power from the old British Empire's might to the role that the United States has been playing in the world since 1945

Europe as a whole and then gradually what came to be referred to as the political body of the EU became a colony of the US in foreign policy matters. That was the precondition negotiated to receive support during WW2.

To this day you can see that with the dirty handlings of the US government with Russia. When in 2014 a George Soros sponsored faux pro Western military coup guaranteed Western leaders to substract Ukraine's from the sphere of Russian influence. Which prompted Russia to take back Crimea. Enters the sanctions that the US authorities so adamantly wanted and their European lackeys so reluctantly implemented because they are only hurting EU citizens businesses, not American interests for sure.

The US (when I say the US I mean the gov, not its people, who just like in Europe are bipartizanly manipulated) are in fear of the Euroasian partnership that (to them) is threatening to connect Bejing through Moscow to Europe. And essentially regime change in countries like Syria and Iran (the only two countries to resist American imperialistic games in the region) is what this fear all plays out into. Cut to the nasty elephant in the room which is Salafism and Saudi Arabia "friends" of the West, need say no more

You really nailed a lot of truths with the Obama posts. How is presidency was in fact a shoe in for Trump's (sans the "political incorrectness") from the word go when you look at policies implemented on warfare, terrorism, domestic security, banking favours. And how people get caught up and lost in ideological labels without realising that apparently opposite sides work in fact for common (sinister) goals. But I don't think you really understand how the European welfare system works and not everything that sees an intervention from the State is Satan's work. Obamacare was nothing like a European welfare system by the way

I agree though that Obamacare was a scam which instead gave even more power to insurers. Obama was working all along for the same Goldman Sachs folks that you now see in Trump's cabinet and Hillary, even worse.

Now this doesn't obviously mean Trump is right either. As Alibaba's chief recently said at Davos, the US middle classes haven't been crushed by the Chinese or Mexicans taking away their jobs, they have been crushed by US companies taking jobs abroad to make even more money on this perverse version of globalisation aided by both Right and Left wing parties EVERYWHERE.

Furthermore rather than spending trillions and trillions of dollars on endless wars justified by lies and a blatant manipulation of US taxpayers perception and even engineering criminal events to justify that kind of violent interventionism, money should be invested on education and infrastructure and not having a $100k a year university outrageous rip off system where the same usual suspects will be educated just so that they can run things the way they've always been run once they come out of it

The whole USA USA chanting mentality or Make America Great Again rethoric is a misleading and mendacious one to begin with. And in the end it is only detrimental to Americans themselves the most, of any political persuasion. Because they lend themselves to this sort of blind faith in supposed American Exceptionalism which by all accounts simply isn't there.

Especially when you take into account how many of its citizens are blissfully unaware of what goes on beyond its borders.

We should instead ask ourselves "what is it that makes America great". When I was growing up I used to idolize the US exactly because of its freedom of speech values and its social mobility. Well, that social mobility has been steadfastly tarnished, almost to the point of suppression and as for freedom of speech it's clearly dead, 9/11 changed everything and gave more room to the powers that be to do all they please without a shred of plausibility, credibility and most of all accountability. See Patriot Act chapter for starters and all the rest. Orwellian to say the least

Oh wow XXL. You rocked it with this post. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-02-03 at 6:23 PM, Ciccone's Cheeks said:

Yes! I feel the same way. Pulsates god awful evil energy. She's horrid AND a horse/ donkey faced creepy EVIL comic book c*nt w / a severe droopy, lazy or whatever eye! Must be all the b-shit she spouts out spritzing back in her face esp that eye (karma) lol

Yes.

She makes donnatella look like a beauty queen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/04/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin/index.html

This fuckin' guy.... 

What's ironic is I find myself defending conservatism as much as progressivism these days. 

I have no doubt he's going to have a primary challenger in 2020. Someone like a Mitt Romney. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"But he's a killer," O'Reilly said to Trump.
"There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?" Trump replied.

 

Well, i'm will go all Pud now and will say that Trump is right :lol:

The only good thing from this chaos is that at least the mask is off. After decades of wolves in lamb clothes, now the wolf is walking rampant and all the lamps are running like crazy. But the wolf was already there! 

One of the things that my man and I most comment is that after all the shit poured on Putin from the oh so saint Western world, now we have people doing the same things without fakery and lies. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, XXL said:

And instead you should be more open to what a "non American" has to say about the US. It sounds like some people who say that since you're not an American citizen you don't understand American politics or worse don't have any right to comment on it, which is such an ignorant proposition considering the US political system conditions everything else in the world. You have talked about an holier than thou attitude but if you read most of your latest posts in this thread you can agree that the holier than thou language is in fact coming from you, not to mention the fact that your recollection of historical events is somewhat partial, inaccurate and extremely simplistic in regards to NATO, the two world wars and what essentially was a transfer of power from the old British Empire's might to the role that the United States has been playing in the world since 1945

Europe as a whole and then gradually what came to be referred to as the political body of the EU became a colony of the US in foreign policy matters. That was the precondition negotiated to receive support during WW2.

To this day you can see that with the dirty handlings of the US government with Russia. When in 2014 a George Soros sponsored faux pro Western military coup guaranteed Western leaders to substract Ukraine's from the sphere of Russian influence. Which prompted Russia to take back Crimea. Enters the sanctions that the US authorities so adamantly wanted and their European lackeys so reluctantly implemented because they are only hurting EU citizens businesses, not American interests for sure.

The US (when I say the US I mean the gov, not its people, who just like in Europe are bipartizanly manipulated) are in fear of the Euroasian partnership that (to them) is threatening to connect Bejing through Moscow to Europe. And essentially regime change in countries like Syria and Iran (the only two countries to resist American imperialistic games in the region) is what this fear all plays out into. Cut to the nasty elephant in the room which is Salafism and Saudi Arabia "friends" of the West, need say no more

You really nailed a lot of truths with the Obama posts. How is presidency was in fact a shoe in for Trump's (sans the "political incorrectness") from the word go when you look at policies implemented on warfare, terrorism, domestic security, banking favours. And how people get caught up and lost in ideological labels without realising that apparently opposite sides work in fact for common (sinister) goals. But I don't think you really understand how the European welfare system works and not everything that sees an intervention from the State is Satan's work. Obamacare was nothing like a European welfare system by the way

I agree though that Obamacare was a scam which instead gave even more power to insurers. Obama was working all along for the same Goldman Sachs folks that you now see in Trump's cabinet and Hillary, even worse.

Now this doesn't obviously mean Trump is right either. As Alibaba's chief recently said at Davos, the US middle classes haven't been crushed by the Chinese or Mexicans taking away their jobs, they have been crushed by US companies taking jobs abroad to make even more money on this perverse version of globalisation aided by both Right and Left wing parties EVERYWHERE.

Furthermore rather than spending trillions and trillions of dollars on endless wars justified by lies and a blatant manipulation of US taxpayers perception and even engineering criminal events to justify that kind of violent interventionism, money should be invested on education and infrastructure and not having a $100k a year university outrageous rip off system where the same usual suspects will be educated just so that they can run things the way they've always been run once they come out of it

The whole USA USA chanting mentality or Make America Great Again rethoric is a misleading and mendacious one to begin with. And in the end it is only detrimental to Americans themselves the most, of any political persuasion. Because they lend themselves to this sort of blind faith in supposed American Exceptionalism which by all accounts simply isn't there.

Especially when you take into account how many of its citizens are blissfully unaware of what goes on beyond its borders.

We should instead ask ourselves "what is it that makes America great". When I was growing up I used to idolize the US exactly because of its freedom of speech values and its social mobility. Well, that social mobility has been steadfastly tarnished, almost to the point of suppression and as for freedom of speech it's clearly dead, 9/11 changed everything and gave more room to the powers that be to do all they please without a shred of plausibility, credibility and most of all accountability. See Patriot Act chapter for starters and all the rest. Orwellian to say the least

Bravo! :clap:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, KalamazooJay said:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/04/politics/donald-trump-vladimir-putin/index.html

This fuckin' guy.... 

What's ironic is I find myself defending conservatism as much as progressivism these days. 

I have no doubt he's going to have a primary challenger in 2020. Someone like a Mitt Romney. 

Oh definitely. Unless it's President Pence who is prez then which I'm betting on :#  I just do NOT see how Trump makes it four years. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, karbatal said:
"But he's a killer," O'Reilly said to Trump.
"There are a lot of killers. You think our country's so innocent?" Trump replied.

 

Well, i'm will go all Pud now and will say that Trump is right :lol:

The only good thing from this chaos is that at least the mask is off. After decades of wolves in lamb clothes, now the wolf is walking rampant and all the lamps are running like crazy. But the wolf was already there! 

One of the things that my man and I most comment is that after all the shit poured on Putin from the oh so saint Western world, now we have people doing the same things without fakery and lies. 

Oh please. 

I'm well aware of some of the atrocities the West has committed. Of course the U.S isn't innocent. But for a sitting American President to basically say that the U.S and Russia are of the same mold is breathtakingly incorrect. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well, if only we were informed about the dirty tricks of Washington as the same level as Moscow... Because the dirty tricks in Washington are VERY, VERY DIRTY. 
I mean millions of death dirty
One tiny, weeny, little example: 
- 500.000 deaths in Iraq since 2001
- Halliburton, company of Donald Rumsfeld, in charge of the reconstruction of Iraq. 
And that's just a tiny drop in a VERY VERY VERY BIG OCEAN. 
So yes, I put Moscow and Washington in the same level. The level of the capitals of the two empires. One uses white propaganda, the other black propaganda. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, XXL said:

And instead you should be more open to what a "non American" has to say about the US. It sounds like some people who say that since you're not an American citizen you don't understand American politics or worse don't have any right to comment on it, which is such an ignorant proposition considering the US political system conditions everything else in the world. You have talked about an holier than thou attitude but if you read most of your latest posts in this thread you can agree that the holier than thou language is in fact coming from you, not to mention the fact that your recollection of historical events is somewhat partial, inaccurate and extremely simplistic in regards to NATO, the two world wars and what essentially was a transfer of power from the old British Empire's might to the role that the United States has been playing in the world since 1945

Europe as a whole and then gradually what came to be referred to as the political body of the EU became a colony of the US in foreign policy matters. That was the precondition negotiated to receive support during WW2.

To this day you can see that with the dirty handlings of the US government with Russia. When in 2014 a George Soros sponsored faux pro Western military coup guaranteed Western leaders to substract Ukraine's from the sphere of Russian influence. Which prompted Russia to take back Crimea. Enters the sanctions that the US authorities so adamantly wanted and their European lackeys so reluctantly implemented because they are only hurting EU citizens businesses, not American interests for sure.

The US (when I say the US I mean the gov, not its people, who just like in Europe are bipartizanly manipulated) are in fear of the Euroasian partnership that (to them) is threatening to connect Bejing through Moscow to Europe. And essentially regime change in countries like Syria and Iran (the only two countries to resist American imperialistic games in the region) is what this fear all plays out into. Cut to the nasty elephant in the room which is Salafism and Saudi Arabia "friends" of the West, need say no more

You really nailed a lot of truths with the Obama posts. How is presidency was in fact a shoe in for Trump's (sans the "political incorrectness") from the word go when you look at policies implemented on warfare, terrorism, domestic security, banking favours. And how people get caught up and lost in ideological labels without realising that apparently opposite sides work in fact for common (sinister) goals. But I don't think you really understand how the European welfare system works and not everything that sees an intervention from the State is Satan's work. Obamacare was nothing like a European welfare system by the way

I agree though that Obamacare was a scam which instead gave even more power to insurers. Obama was working all along for the same Goldman Sachs folks that you now see in Trump's cabinet and Hillary, even worse.

Now this doesn't obviously mean Trump is right either. As Alibaba's chief recently said at Davos, the US middle classes haven't been crushed by the Chinese or Mexicans taking away their jobs, they have been crushed by US companies taking jobs abroad to make even more money on this perverse version of globalisation aided by both Right and Left wing parties EVERYWHERE.

Furthermore rather than spending trillions and trillions of dollars on endless wars justified by lies and a blatant manipulation of US taxpayers perception and even engineering criminal events to justify that kind of violent interventionism, money should be invested on education and infrastructure and not having a $100k a year university outrageous rip off system where the same usual suspects will be educated just so that they can run things the way they've always been run once they come out of it

The whole USA USA chanting mentality or Make America Great Again rethoric is a misleading and mendacious one to begin with. And in the end it is only detrimental to Americans themselves the most, of any political persuasion. Because they lend themselves to this sort of blind faith in supposed American Exceptionalism which by all accounts simply isn't there.

Especially when you take into account how many of its citizens are blissfully unaware of what goes on beyond its borders.

We should instead ask ourselves "what is it that makes America great". When I was growing up I used to idolize the US exactly because of its freedom of speech values and its social mobility. Well, that social mobility has been steadfastly tarnished, almost to the point of suppression and as for freedom of speech it's clearly dead, 9/11 changed everything and gave more room to the powers that be to do all they please without a shred of plausibility, credibility and most of all accountability. See Patriot Act chapter for starters and all the rest. Orwellian to say the least

More of this here ! Please 

(and less of egotistic & onanistic posts)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, karbatal said:
Well, if only we were informed about the dirty tricks of Washington as the same level as Moscow... Because the dirty tricks in Washington are VERY, VERY DIRTY. 
I mean millions of death dirty
One tiny, weeny, little example: 
- 500.000 deaths in Iraq since 2001
- Halliburton, company of Donald Rumsfeld, in charge of the reconstruction of Iraq. 
And that's just a tiny drop in a VERY VERY VERY BIG OCEAN. 
So yes, I put Moscow and Washington in the same level. The level of the capitals of the two empires. One uses white propaganda, the other black propaganda. 

I think the interviewer was referring to killing his political opponents, not war killings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, KalamazooJay said:

Oh please. 

I'm well aware of some of the atrocities the West has committed. Of course the U.S isn't innocent. But for a sitting American President to basically say that the U.S and Russia are of the same mold is breathtakingly incorrect. 

Imagine the fall out if Obama had said this? Faux news and every other  right wing media  organization would lose their minds and call him anti American.

Sure Trump is right in this case but I don't think a sitting president should make such a statement.

 

Trump gets away with saying and doing stuff no other president could. It's unbelievable.

It's also amazing how he refuses to utter a bad word about Russia/Putin. That's why he even made that comment in the first place in order to deflect. He's afraid to say anything that could piss Putin off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, StrawberryBounce12 said:

Imagine the fall out if Obama had said this? Faux news and every other  right wing media  organization would lose their minds and call him anti American.

Sure Trump is right in this case but I don't think a sitting president should make such a statement.

 

Trump gets away with saying and doing stuff no other president could. It's unbelievable.

It's also amazing how he refuses to utter a bad word about Russia/Putin. That's why he even made that comment in the first place in order to deflect. He's afraid to say anything that could piss Putin off.

Obama would have been crucified if he said that. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, StrawberryBounce12 said:

Imagine the fall out if Obama had said this? Faux news and every other  right wing media  organization would lose their minds and call him anti American.

Sure Trump is right in this case but I don't think a sitting president should make such a statement.

 

Trump gets away with saying and doing stuff no other president could. It's unbelievable.

It's also amazing how he refuses to utter a bad word about Russia/Putin. That's why he even made that comment in the first place in order to deflect. He's afraid to say anything that could piss Putin off.

Of course they would but he IS getting crucified by everyone BUT Faux and other conservative, Trump ass licking organizations lol Unfortunately this ALL very simply boils down to the Dems being totally powerless right now. It's a complete flip flop of what Obama had in 2009-11. He couldve done and said anything and there wouldn't be shit the GOP could do. Obviously, he's 100x more classy and not out of mind. If there was an semi check on this baboon he'd probably already be out of office. The 'resistance' is 1000% there but there really isnt anything anyone can really do until 11/18! That or the few sane people left with the GOP are 'on it' behind the scenes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, karbatal said:
Well, if only we were informed about the dirty tricks of Washington as the same level as Moscow... Because the dirty tricks in Washington are VERY, VERY DIRTY. 
I mean millions of death dirty
One tiny, weeny, little example: 
- 500.000 deaths in Iraq since 2001
- Halliburton, company of Donald Rumsfeld, in charge of the reconstruction of Iraq. 
And that's just a tiny drop in a VERY VERY VERY BIG OCEAN. 
So yes, I put Moscow and Washington in the same level. The level of the capitals of the two empires. One uses white propaganda, the other black propaganda. 

Thank you. 

And they say karbs are bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, StrawberryBounce12 said:

Imagine the fall out if Obama had said this? Faux news and every other  right wing media  organization would lose their minds and call him anti American.

Sure Trump is right in this case but I don't think a sitting president should make such a statement.

 

Trump gets away with saying and doing stuff no other president could. It's unbelievable.

It's also amazing how he refuses to utter a bad word about Russia/Putin. That's why he even made that comment in the first place in order to deflect. He's afraid to say anything that could piss Putin off.

This. But the Donald did say he can get away with murder so nothing new there. And give it another week and all the Russians sanctions will be lifted and Europe will jus have to accept it. America is playing its most dangerous game. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Europe will be VERY HAPPY to have the sanctions lifted,  believe me. They have deeply affected to agriculture in Spain,  for example.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Europe will be VERY HAPPY to have the sanctions lifted,  believe me. They have deeply affected to agriculture in Spain,  for example.  

Probably some, but there are others that won't be that happy like Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia and Poland. Of course Ukraine from those outside of the EU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...