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3 minutes ago, XXL said:

And that's exactly the problem that we all have now to face.

Where did I say Trump is going to solve anything? I am saying something else. The problem and the colossal lying comes from the entire political spectrum in regards to some fundamental safety and geopolitical issues. Find instances of me cheering on what Trump has said in here or applauding his slurs or his communication style. I am saying, while people are busy with Trump, we are being lied by ALL parties in regards to several issues

First and foremost the nature and ultimate purpose that Western backed terrorism serves in disrupting entire regions for political and economical gain. Then there's the issue of Russia and China. These are are aftethoughts, they tied into why Trump has been allowed to get this far to begin with. But if your understanding of those elements remains limited in an artificial narrative of good guys vs bad guys, you are limiting the scope of the discussion

 

As I said I do agree with pretty much everything you say. And I thank you for all the info. And certainly the problems didn't start with Trump and they won't end with him. My issue was the lack of discussion on Trump and specifically on what's truly going on behind the whole thing. I know it might sound very conspiracy orientated but I sense something that's truly behind our control as citizens or voters and that's exactly why Trump has run for the presidency, won the elections when all the odds were against him and God knows what that is going to bring to the US and the whole wide world. 

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4 minutes ago, impr3ssive_instant said:

The only people accepting that are his most ardent supporters. The Senate Intelligence Committee has launched an investigation. They said they will issue subpoenas if necessary. Even the BBC is heavily involved in reporting about it. It is not being ignored.

The Justice Department is also investigating Comey's actions during the election, which is huge.

Yes but people in general and even the media have already dismissed that story as fake news. Some publications have even said that story made Trump more popular. It does look like Trump can truly get away with murder. 

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Well beyond obviously, THIS was that 'oppo' lurking out there before election that for whatever the fuq reason wasn't 'leaked'! That and the Apprentice N word tapes. Many people were saying "two" big things. There's prob a LOT more with this orange fungus lol. There's also the endless rape stories of underage girls etc etc..Look we ALL know he's as vile awful as they come yet for whatever the fucked up (most likely Russian reasons) he is getting away with it all...um so far. ANY other person would've instantly been zapped or in jail at the very minimum.

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4 minutes ago, MeakMaker said:

Yes but people in general and even the media have already dismissed that story as fake news. Some publications have even said that story made Trump more popular. It does look like Trump can truly get away with murder. 

and he will and prob already has many many x! This is Russian/US Mafia colluding :#. Omfg I'm scared shit for Rosie O! Have this feeling it's prob even 20x worse and shady than we will ever know and one day (JFK style) he's just gonna get blown away, covered up etc etc...Telling you this is JFK/Nixon/ MLK era craziness all over again!  

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One of the rumored sources that Steele used for the dossier has already been found dead. He was murdered before it was leaked by Buzzfeed, but keep in mind these papers had been floating around the government and media for MONTHS. Putin has killed people for far less.

Also, worth mentioning some news that came out today. Estonian spy agency conducted surveillance of meeting of Duma deputy, Trump adviser

It's interesting if you also pair it with this from the BBC:

Claims about a Russian blackmail tape were made in one of a series of reports written by a former British intelligence agent. As a member of MI6, he had been posted to the UK's embassy in Moscow and now runs a consultancy giving advice on doing business in Russia. He spoke to a number of his old contacts in the FSB, the successor to the KGB, paying some of them for information.

....The former MI6 agent is not the only source for the claim about Russian kompromat on the president-elect. Back in August, a retired spy told me he had been informed of its existence by "the head of an East European intelligence agency".

Later, I used an intermediary to pass some questions to active duty CIA officers dealing with the case file — they would not speak to me directly. I got a message back that there was "more than one tape", "audio and video", on "more than one date", in "more than one place" — in the Ritz-Carlton in Moscow and also in St Petersburg — and that the material was "of a sexual nature". The claims of Russian kompromat on Mr Trump were "credible", the CIA believed.

....Last April, the CIA director was shown intelligence that worried him. It was — allegedly — a tape recording of a conversation about money from the Kremlin going into the US presidential campaign.

It was passed to the US by an intelligence agency of one of the Baltic States. The CIA cannot act domestically against American citizens so a joint counter-intelligence taskforce was created....A lawyer — outside the Department of Justice but familiar with the case — told me that three of Mr Trump's associates were the subject of the inquiry. "But it's clear this is about Trump," he said.

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2 hours ago, XXL said:

 

And that's exactly what I was referring to in my other posts. The US and Western countries in general endorse oil calliphates who represent the violent face of Islam while in the same breath claiming to want to export democracy to those other Shiite moderate Islam countries that don't bend to its willingness to control the entire region.

If you think fracking has made North America any less dependent on oil you are wrong. The Syrian conflict in particular is all about Iran and Syria having a pipeline of their own, a pipeline that would bypass all of those Western-allied Gulf countries and delivering oil and gas into Europe. What we are witnessing in this day and age is the last one big geopolitcal mega war over the control of resources and the value of currencies. It's not about laying the entire thing at one person's doorstep, it's about understanding the world we lived in before the first two world wars and the one that started being molded on the basis if the ashes of the second global conflict

When I say that that the US creates his own enemies in order to later on justify regional interventions I am not saying something unimaginable or completely far removed from the reality of things. And i would like to add that your description of what is going on in Venezuela is also inaccurate.

 

First of all, I need to stop you for a second: Yemen is not Shiite majority nor is it moderate. And also, Bahrain is majority Shia and they are part of the coalition intervening in Yemen so your point above makes no sense. Also, what moderate Shiite countries are you talking about? Iran? Iraq? Because those are pretty much the only big majority Shia countries in the region and I don't think I'd call either of them moderate. So what nations are you talking about? Also, there are no true caliphates in operation unless you're playing loose with your terms in which case, you need a dictionary. ISIS would like to create one, but it hasn't. The last true caliphate expired before WWII.

Secondly, Syria and Iran share no border, so building any such pipeline to Europe would require access through another sovereign nation. And it is a well-known fact that increased oil into the market from U.S. fracking is what is contributing to the price drop worldwide and the damaging of oil exporting economies - such as Venezuela and Russia. I am not arguing the U.S. has NO oil dependency, but I don't believe it is tied to the value of our dollar as much as you think. Less than half of our oil imports for 2015 came from OPEC nations. So yeah, think I am wrong on Venezuela...I can see the economic situation playing out according to text book parameters. You post memes and random videos which do not really support your argument.

And I don't know where that last part came from...I am well aware we create our own enemies, although I'd argue I am not sure we do it for the sole purpose of justifying interventions later on. I think American just kind of does whatever the fuck it wants sometimes (and I am not saying I agree with that, by the way). I think you're giving us more credit for foresight than we deserve. No U.S. administration has been taking the long view for quite some time.

Anyway, I can see where this going. Let's just agree to disagree. 
 

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On 12/1/2017 at 2:33 PM, mnino said:

When you're on the fence, you can see both sides.

And before people go all...

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No real injustice has happened yet. He's not even president yet.

I'll save my energy to when it's really needed. 

 

Yes 

Just reading this thread you realise how WRONG is the world.  From people trying to be impartial to others following the path media is pointing.  

I hope this mess only affects USA. I'm tired of being affected of my government,  German government and USA government when I only take part in one election. 

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12 hours ago, Nightshade said:

First of all, I need to stop you for a second: Yemen is not Shiite majority nor is it moderate. And also, Bahrain is majority Shia and they are part of the coalition intervening in Yemen so your point above makes no sense. Also, what moderate Shiite countries are you talking about? Iran? Iraq? Because those are pretty much the only big majority Shia countries in the region and I don't think I'd call either of them moderate. So what nations are you talking about? Also, there are no true caliphates in operation unless you're playing loose with your terms in which case, you need a dictionary. ISIS would like to create one, but it hasn't. The last true caliphate expired before WWII.

Secondly, Syria and Iran share no border, so building any such pipeline to Europe would require access through another sovereign nation. And it is a well-known fact that increased oil into the market from U.S. fracking is what is contributing to the price drop worldwide and the damaging of oil exporting economies - such as Venezuela and Russia. I am not arguing the U.S. has NO oil dependency, but I don't believe it is tied to the value of our dollar as much as you think. Less than half of our oil imports for 2015 came from OPEC nations. So yeah, think I am wrong on Venezuela...I can see the economic situation playing out according to text book parameters. You post memes and random videos which do not really support your argument.

And I don't know where that last part came from...I am well aware we create our own enemies, although I'd argue I am not sure we do it for the sole purpose of justifying interventions later on. I think American just kind of does whatever the fuck it wants sometimes (and I am not saying I agree with that, by the way). I think you're giving us more credit for foresight than we deserve. No U.S. administration has been taking the long view for quite some time.

Anyway, I can see where this going. Let's just agree to disagree. 

:thumbsup:

 

I would just love to say that I don't post meme and videos that are random and that go against my argument. I have cited works about these issues by respected intellectuals such as Noam Chomsky and Anthony Sutton. Those videos are a summary of their work essentially, as a forum is hardly a place for entire quotes from academia textbooks.

And ISIS (just like AlQaeda before it) is a Western project from the word go to justify imperialistic designs of old power players in Europe and the US which are tied to the Banking Cartel and Vatican controlled Zionism (whose protection of Jewish interests or Jewish people is just a facade but to the poorly informed criticising Zionism equates with antisemitism) It gives the excuse of having a target and destabilize entire regions by means of proxy wars

Again we start on completely different premises and I accept that we disagree. In my opinion because we look at the timeline of events differently. It goes back to before the first two global conflicts. We need to look at it as a whole, not as a disjointed series of random events and sudden setbacks or emergencies

I still mantain that the US economy and the US currency in particular depend entirely on the outcome of all these Middle Eastern conflicts.

If watching Hillary Clinton say we (as in the US Gov of course, not her personally, back in the late 70s) have armed and trained the Wahabi branch of Islam and now are paying the consequences for it and watching US General Clark saying Turkey and Saudi Arabia (translation: the US, Israel and European Intelligence) protect and fund ISIS, well if that doesn't constitute the most important thing about this discussion then I don't know what does

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@XXL I tried to quote a post of yours but somehow it's not showing up, so I'll just say I enjoy your posts in this thread thus far (I'm a few pages behind)!

On 12/01/2017 at 7:38 PM, mnino said:

You are correct in that I partially don't agree with your point of view. But I'm not sure you understand what I don't agree. I will try to clarify it.

I completely understand and respect your disdain for the Trumpster, he is vile. What's to disagree there? Is he going to "save" America and "make it great" again? I wouldn't bet on it. So we do have something in common.

However, I am not going to inundate my Facebook, Twitter, Madonnation, whatever, with over the top anti-Trump rhetoric because I believe it's counterproductive in our current environment. He was elected even though I did not vote for him. What else can be done? Impeach him? Well, it will probably happen. What can I do as a citizen at this time? I could protest. But protest against what? His election? He won it. What else to protest? Should I protest because he is not morally admirable? Yes, but everyone already knows that. What would that accomplish?

I will be the first one to voice disagreement with any of his policies that I believe are not for the benefit of the nation. So far all I can do is dislike some of his picks for his cabinet. Mr. Exxon and Mr. Sessions leave A LOT to be desired and I hope that the vetting continues. Am I convinced that it will work? I'm not sure. Then what? What can I do? Whine? What I can do is have level headed conversations with people surrounding me about how I believe this corporate approach to diplomacy may not be a great approach. And if someone disagrees with me, I will not suddenly label them Trump admirers. 

Ultimately what can really be accomplished if no one consciously attempts to stay neutral amidst this political polarizing of America? Labeling people that consider themselves neutral as Trump supporters is just going to alienate them in my opinion. And I firmly believe that the democrats are doing themselves no favor by labeling every Trump voter as a supporter of bigotry, homophobia, etc. 

So, I disagree with you regarding the absence of neutrality when it comes to Mr. Trump. My disagreement with your opinions have more to do with style than substance. I think I did undermine your view that the US will become another Russia and that Trump will set us back 20 years because I seriously disagree with both stances. And I really fail to see how that makes me suddenly a Trump supporter. 

Most of my discussions on this forum were regarding how he won the election by winning the blue collar vote in the Rust Belt, how our media created him and ironically lost its credibility with the masses because of it and how scary it is to have journalists that are so clearly biased on both sides of the spectrum. 

I am not afraid of voicing my opinion when I think it can make a difference. I don't see the need to keep repeating how awful the guy is because everybody knows it. You may continue to label me whatever you want though. Just be careful of who you label your enemy because you may find yourself surrounded by people that won't challenge you. 

Relax. Better days will come. 

Insidiously rational.

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2 hours ago, mnino said:

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And what are you implying exactly?

I liked your post.


After a few of us declared ourselves neutral, and after I mentioned Caitlyn going to the inauguration according to the Daily Mail, Kim said he's watching "The insidious right wing element of this place trying to pass themselves off an "neutral" while quoting from faux news and The Daily Fail and only ever having anything to say about anything remotely liberal and progressive..." so I used his word, all be it in a ridiculous context, but hey, I am not a right winger nor do I quote the Daily Mail as a source of legitimacy hence the phrase according to being used by me! I find most mainstream media abhorrent.

I don't think anyone here is being insidious, that's quite a harsh word, but really, why would there be a need to be sneaky anyway? It's a Madonna forum, it's not a job. If I came out and said I was right winger who voted Trump and jumped on my neighbours daisies what will be done to me? Right now as I've not posted a photograph, I'm simply a font on a screen! I can be and say what I want without a consequence really. Why would I hide it? Posing as neutral while anonymous is pretty pathetic.
From what I've read on here, I think people in this thread and around the board generally are upfront. We talk bluntly with each other (sometimes it hurts :imsad: lol) There are the silent voters sure, but, FROM WHAT I'VE READ I don't feel anyone here is hiding a red hat under their cone bra, those who did go red do seem to be OK with letting people know.

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Yikes. It's been a while. 

What'd I miss? 

What a waste of a news cycle with that dossier bullshit. When I first saw the whole 'breaking news' garbage explode all over Facebook I truly thought that maybe, JUST MAYBE, something with some actual substance was uncovered. The supposed 'Apprentice' tape! The PROOF he has Russian connections and business deals! A video of him REALLY shooting someone on 5th Ave!

No, what we got was the definition of 'Fake News'. Golden Showers? Are you fucking kidding me? Tell me HOW. HOW the fuck has the media NOT wised up with this guy? How has he been able, for nearly 2 years, to continually bait the media with these type of ridiculous distractions? It's beyond comprehension. Why can we not get facts out there regarding his monstrous cabinet picks? Ben Carson for HUD? His EPA pick?

I'm almost to the point where I don't care. Like I just want to spend my spare time googling food, gardening, fashion, and music blogs and just let him burn the country to the ground.  

The thought of him standing on that stage were the likes of FDR, Kennedy, Reagan, and Obama stood, is honestly just painful. It's become obvious during his transition that he doesn't give a shit about uniting or inspiring, or motivating, or sounding like a LEADER. He knows he has 40% of the country locked up. He knows that he simply needs to depress the rest of us and we'll stay home again in 4 years. He knows the media will lap up every eye rolling tweet he sends out lambasting John Lewis, Meryl Streep, or anyone else who pokes him in the eye. 

While I thought Bush was a total buffoon, I had always said that if George and Laura were your neighbors, you'd probably love them. They were good people with pride in their country. If Trump were you neighbor, he'd use imminent domain to drive you from your house for one of his nasty buildings.

Cheers, America, you've earned this.  

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There's one thing to accept that he won and another to say "let's not judge until he does things".  The first is being rational.  The second is being a MONG and condoning his vomit inducing campaign. 

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2 hours ago, KalamazooJay said:

Yikes. It's been a while. 

What'd I miss? 

What a waste of a news cycle with that dossier bullshit. When I first saw the whole 'breaking news' garbage explode all over Facebook I truly thought that maybe, JUST MAYBE, something with some actual substance was uncovered. The supposed 'Apprentice' tape! The PROOF he has Russian connections and business deals! A video of him REALLY shooting someone on 5th Ave!

No, what we got was the definition of 'Fake News'. Golden Showers? Are you fucking kidding me? Tell me HOW. HOW the fuck has the media NOT wised up with this guy? How has he been able, for nearly 2 years, to continually bait the media with these type of ridiculous distractions? It's beyond comprehension. Why can we not get facts out there regarding his monstrous cabinet picks? Ben Carson for HUD? His EPA pick?

I'm almost to the point where I don't care. Like I just want to spend my spare time googling food, gardening, fashion, and music blogs and just let him burn the country to the ground.  

The thought of him standing on that stage were the likes of FDR, Kennedy, Reagan, and Obama stood, is honestly just painful. It's become obvious during his transition that he doesn't give a shit about uniting or inspiring, or motivating, or sounding like a LEADER. He knows he has 40% of the country locked up. He knows that he simply needs to depress the rest of us and we'll stay home again in 4 years. He knows the media will lap up every eye rolling tweet he sends out lambasting John Lewis, Meryl Streep, or anyone else who pokes him in the eye. 

While I thought Bush was a total buffoon, I had always said that if George and Laura were your neighbors, you'd probably love them. They were good people with pride in their country. If Trump were you neighbor, he'd use imminent domain to drive you from your house for one of his nasty buildings.

Cheers, America, you've earned this.  

Agree.  A gift to Trump to use for his own benefit and a distraction from his cabinet picks and policies.  The way people just excuse him for anything and any behaviour is also bewildering. 

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1 hour ago, karbatal said:

There's one thing to accept that he won and another to say "let's not judge until he does things".  The first is being rational.  The second is being a MONG and condoning his vomit inducing campaign. 

I agree with you 100% Karbatal.

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Wow I watched this documentary on Channel 4 called Dispatches and it was about Trump secret which has him involved with all the biggest oil companies. I fear for what's going to happen to Standing Rock. Trumps refusal to acknowledge climate change is so idiotic. Anybody with a brain would realise his denial is motivated by selfish reasons. Hope they're not going ahead and drill the Antarctic... 

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6 hours ago, billiejean said:

I liked your post.


After a few of us declared ourselves neutral, and after I mentioned Caitlyn going to the inauguration according to the Daily Mail, Kim said he's watching "The insidious right wing element of this place trying to pass themselves off an "neutral" while quoting from faux news and The Daily Fail and only ever having anything to say about anything remotely liberal and progressive..." so I used his word, all be it in a ridiculous context, but hey, I am not a right winger nor do I quote the Daily Mail as a source of legitimacy hence the phrase according to being used by me! I find most mainstream media abhorrent.

I don't think anyone here is being insidious, that's quite a harsh word, but really, why would there be a need to be sneaky anyway? It's a Madonna forum, it's not a job. If I came out and said I was right winger who voted Trump and jumped on my neighbours daisies what will be done to me? Right now as I've not posted a photograph, I'm simply a font on a screen! I can be and say what I want without a consequence really. Why would I hide it? Posing as neutral while anonymous is pretty pathetic.
From what I've read on here, I think people in this thread and around the board generally are upfront. We talk bluntly with each other (sometimes it hurts :imsad: lol) There are the silent voters sure, but, FROM WHAT I'VE READ I don't feel anyone here is hiding a red hat under their cone bra, those who did go red do seem to be OK with letting people know.

tumblr_ltg9ttXDkK1qb7bm6.gif

Oh, I see. 

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5 hours ago, spazz said:

The inauguration will be held on Friday bitches get ready for a new wax figure at Madame tusauds Orlando 

16002804_774812859333868_228532199386787

:lol:

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14 hours ago, MeakMaker said:

Who was saying here that people don't care about Trumps tax returns because rich peeps have a different tax code? :wacko:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/contrary-trump-belief-74-tax-returns-poll-article-1.2948022

Listen, little boy. I said Trump didn't pay taxes several years in a row because his company had massive taxable losses, which he carried forward to offset future taxable income, while you were saying that he committed a crime. 

I was simply explaining to people like you what the reality of things are. I hate Trump, but what he did is perfectly normal and legal and lying to get your crazy point across is another form of ignorance and I'm not going to sit by and let my fellow Madonna Nation members make stupid ignorant claims.

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6 minutes ago, ULIZOS said:

Listen, little boy. I said Trump didn't pay taxes several years in a row because his company had massive taxable losses, which he carried forward to offset future taxable income, while you were saying that he committed a crime. 

I was simply explaining to people like you what the reality of things are. I hate Trump, but what he did is perfectly normal and legal and lying to get your crazy point across is another form of ignorance and I'm not going to sit by and let my fellow Madonna Nation members make stupid ignorant claims.

First off I don't appreciate being called a little boy. It only goes to show what kind of person you are..

And second if Donald Trump didn't do anything illegal or everything was done by the book why not showing his tax returns instead of saying people are not interested when they clearly are? And reason why I put Zzzz as a reply on that post I can give you my reason: Nessie replied to my post stating the usual things we have been hearing about Obama since forever. And it got a bit boring. It was my prerogative to reply as I wished. It had nothing to do with you in the slightest.

If you have a problem with me jus block me like other members have done or discuss it civilly. It's so transparent this has got nothing to do with my political opinion. I really don't know what I have done to you. I don't even respond to your posts. I don't talk about you. I don't shade you or anything. You keep saying you don't like Trump but everytime I make a point about him you just jump on me. Truly it doesn't make sense. 

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What i DO have a problem with is that I've been telling people like you and many of my friends who live in their damn WeHo and are completely out of touch with reality for fucking years now that people are fed up with both Democrats and Republicans but mostly Democrats and all you people did was blindly support a woman who's basically a zombie, who stood for everything people were/are sick of, and focused on things like racism and LGBT rights, which NOBODY cared these elections except for the same people who were already going to vote Democrat in the first place. People like Sloane, who voted for Trump, are NOT racist or homophobic and she tells you over and over again why she voted for him but you just keep going on and on about the 'deplorables.' 

Now, thanks to all of this, some disgusting man who saw the same exact thing came out of nowhere, saw an opportunity and went for it, and guess what? He won the election! He did it by screaming and shouting and pandering to those people who eventually helped elect him. Call if what you will but that was fucking genius.

And here you are, months later, going ON and ON about racism and him grabbing women by the pussy and it pisses me off because he's actually doing things to make jobs stay in America (by being a dick and a bully). The IMF just upgraded US growth forecasts thanks to his policies.

All you're doing is making sure he gets elected AGAIN in 4 years and that the republicans continue to control all of congress and the White House. LGBT rights aren't the center of the universe.

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It's interesting, and just using XXL & Nightshade as an example, that 2 clearly well-read people can still have differing opinions over facts (oil pipeline discussion). Just goes to show there's no real truth out there no matter what news source you read.

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