Jump to content
MadonnaNation.com Forums
Junior

Trump / US politics thread 🚽

Recommended Posts

17 hours ago, Love Spent said:

Seriously? 

You're grasping at straws with him being 'committed'. Not going to happen.

 

You've been grasping at straws for months trying to justify why you made the "right choice" on Nov 9th. 

Btw.....politically motivated or not, that type of rhetoric and behavior is what Trump displayed, promoted and thrived off of his entire campaign. YOU made this choice. Remember that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Sloane said:

It would be interesting to hear his take on things these days. God I can only imagine lol

Why do I get the feeling he's in a corner shaking somewhere? 

Speaking of shaking in a corner, did Skin change his name to Kurt420 LOL

I kid!

 

:tongue:

Not that what you said is insulting b/c I love Skin but still!! lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Kurt420 said:

 

:tongue:

Not that what you said is insulting b/c I love Skin but still!! lol

:kiss2:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Sloane said:

It would be interesting to hear his take on things these days. God I can only imagine lol

Why do I get the feeling he's in a corner shaking somewhere? 

Speaking of shaking in a corner, did Skin change his name to Kurt420 LOL

I kid!

LOL Um..even though I see what you mean (lately) with their typing styles, opinions haha they're positively not the same person. We all know that! lol Both have been on here way too long and just...again, we all know they are NOT the same! Gotta say..I am kind of worried about Skin! He abruptly went MIA shortly before election day. Though Ai Papi Si (who was also super vocal in here during the election) also fizzled out slowly but surely. Most of all..where's JASONAKOS? :( 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have an agenda, I'm not even an American and although I think what we vote is personal and I don't judge people simply for what they vote, I can tell you I've never voted conservative in my country, so no I'm not some right winger trying to use an atrocity like this for any gain, like I said I feel like I'm from another planet, and I don't like to align myself with groups.

Anyway, even if I was a Trump fan what would I need to use this for? Trump won! He's going to be president, I wouldn't need to use this as ammo. If anything you could accuse those mere rumbles of commentary about this being agenda based if anything, lol. :smoke:  
I don't want any outrage over this, I simply think lack of reaction speaks volumes. This is just one story that will fade out, and despite the Trump fans being called racists and Nazi's, there hasn't been an outrageous reaction or riot over this, thank God. But the other side tip toeing around this is no better and will not help any kind of race relations. We need to find a common ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Sloane said:

:kiss2:

:inlove:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, billiejean said:

Yes, that is my point. Don't you agree with that sentiment?

There is no either or here... hate on both sides is horrific. Racism and prejudice on both sides is terrible.

It's perfectly acceptable to call out the behaviours from one side, we can agree and speak openly about the Trump bigots with no worry but when it comes to the other side there's always "more to the story". It's ridiculous and hypocritical.

For example, see how you've responded with a big post about what Trump supporters do? Or how black people are treated in America? What has that got to do with this boy being attacked viciously?

We now have to pander to this notion that somehow when the viciousness comes from other than white republicans, it's all "systemic" and there's a deeper meaning to it all, other than simply it being a hate crime against someone who is white and suspected to be pro-Trump. It's ridiculous and it's annoying to see how people either aren't aware of how hypocritical they are or they simply don't care, it's a "do as I say not as I do" attitude, and it's wrong.

I am neither red nor blue, I am from the moon when it comes to politics.

I don't agree with that sentiment. You can't oppress the dominant race. We can condemn individual acts but there's no comparing the racism the black community face to the mean comments white people face, on occasion. There is no comparison. The prejudice is and was much worse in the black community. They were slaves. Some folks (Millions) still think they should be slaves. It is absolutely not correct to call them equally bad. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, billiejean said:

I don't have an agenda, I'm not even an American and although I think what we vote is personal and I don't judge people simply for what they vote, I can tell you I've never voted conservative in my country, so no I'm not some right winger trying to use an atrocity like this for any gain, like I said I feel like I'm from another planet, and I don't like to align myself with groups.

Anyway, even if I was a Trump fan what would I need to use this for? Trump won! He's going to be president, I wouldn't need to use this as ammo. If anything you could accuse those mere rumbles of commentary about this being agenda based if anything, lol. :smoke:  
I don't want any outrage over this, I simply think lack of reaction speaks volumes. This is just one story that will fade out, and despite the Trump fans being called racists and Nazi's, there hasn't been an outrageous reaction or riot over this, thank God. But the other side tip toeing around this is no better and will not help any kind of race relations. We need to find a common ground.

Why don't you judge people for how they vote? Trump voters for instance empowered a racist, misogynist demagogue. Their vote has consequences so if they tell you who they voted for, you can absolutely judge them. It's not this sacred, secret matter that we shouldn't speak of. Trump voters empowered an outright racist who will take away the health insurance of 20 million Americans and gut any form of birth control program. It's perfectly fine to judge them and to tell them what they have done. 

The reason they use it is because they're insecure. Trump could crack at any time because he's so mentally unstable and rather than face that reality they spend all their time defending. It's literally classic behaviour, you'd expect this, in this situation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, billiejean said:

I don't have an agenda, I'm not even an American and although I think what we vote is personal and I don't judge people simply for what they vote, I can tell you I've never voted conservative in my country, so no I'm not some right winger trying to use an atrocity like this for any gain, like I said I feel like I'm from another planet, and I don't like to align myself with groups.

Anyway, even if I was a Trump fan what would I need to use this for? Trump won! He's going to be president, I wouldn't need to use this as ammo. If anything you could accuse those mere rumbles of commentary about this being agenda based if anything, lol. :smoke:  
I don't want any outrage over this, I simply think lack of reaction speaks volumes. This is just one story that will fade out, and despite the Trump fans being called racists and Nazi's, there hasn't been an outrageous reaction or riot over this, thank God. But the other side tip toeing around this is no better and will not help any kind of race relations. We need to find a common ground.

Sorry but you simply either didnt read my post or just refuse to understand it. I explained it to you very well  why people didn't react the same way as if it was the way round according to your logic and other members here. But still you just don't get the full picture. 

And yes you had an agenda. And it doesn't matter if your American or not. I'm not American myself. I lived in America for 3 years though but still that doesn't mean anything. I can still be critical of what's going on there and understand the situation. 

Truth is you just didn't post that video condemning the crime itself. You posted that video on this thread to follow the rethoric of Where's  the outrage? If it was the way round people would be much more vocal about it. So yes it was politically induced but then again the -Fuck-the minorities-mentality of the GOP has always used that strategy. Minorities are either rapists or terrorists or criminals or simply lazy and stupid... so yes the video proves that yes there are some black people being racist and doing unspeakable acts. As if we didn't know that.. But we all have to sit and watch a racist pig taking his place in the White House and rule the world and say nothing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Chris_Tanasoff said:

Why don't you judge people for how they vote? Trump voters for instance empowered a racist, misogynist demagogue. Their vote has consequences so if they tell you who they voted for, you can absolutely judge them. It's not this sacred, secret matter that we shouldn't speak of. Trump voters empowered an outright racist who will take away the health insurance of 20 million Americans and gut any form of birth control program. It's perfectly fine to judge them and to tell them what they have done. 

The reason they use it is because they're insecure. Trump could crack at any time because he's so mentally unstable and rather than face that reality they spend all their time defending. It's literally classic behaviour, you'd expect this, in this situation. 

Maybe because they're racist themselves? Maybe because they believe in the mentality of the new elected president? Maybe Mr Grab Em By The Pussy President is their hero?Maybe because they're so deep into the GOP ideologies that whatever Trump says or does is normal and accepted and don't need to be condmened? So they would grasp at anything to prove a point. I always wondered why some members here are so critical of the Democratic Party/ left wing but they turn a blind eye on Trump. For example they even post Madonna videos in which she tries to make a point and they say they cringe at it (!?) or they happily comment on the Obamacare "fiasco" but where's the outrage for having a racist president? They just won't call out Trump for that because it won't fit their political credo. Can't they think for themselves one might wonder.... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It really seems like white people wait for something like this to happen so they can use it to bash the left, and cry "HYPOCRISY!" And it's awfully sad. This behavior is inexcusable, but there are HUNDREDS of hate crimes that happen against black people, like THESE http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/133031243-story every day that are swept under the rug, not covered and the people who do it get away with it. It annoys me so much that crimes like this one are used by some white people as ultimately an excuse to be racist. They can't wait to call these black people thugs and cry about how racism against them exist (which is IMPOSSIBLE) Violence is VIOLENCE. Hate is HATE. It has no boundaries and it's not discriminatory. If you're using this crime to condemn anybody but the people involved, you're doing the MOST

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MeakMaker said:

Sorry but you simply either didnt read my post or just refuse to understand it. I explained it to you very well  why people didn't react the same way as if it was the way round according to your logic and other members here. But still you just don't get the full picture. 

And yes you had an agenda. And it doesn't matter if your American or not. I'm not American myself. I lived in America for 3 years though but still that doesn't mean anything. I can still be critical of what's going on there and understand the situation. 

Truth is you just didn't post that video condemning the crime itself. You posted that video on this thread to follow the rethoric of Where's  the outrage? If it was the way round people would be much more vocal about it. So yes it was politically induced but then again the -Fuck-the minorities-mentality of the GOP has always used that strategy. Minorities are either rapists or terrorists or criminals or simply lazy and stupid... so yes the video proves that yes there are some black people being racist and doing unspeakable acts. As if we didn't know that.. But we all have to sit and watch a racist pig taking his place in the White House and rule the world and say nothing.

I don't get the but in your last sentence.

Truth is? No that is not the truth. I did condemn the crime. I didn't post the video, I joined the conversation.
And if you're trying to say I have a fuck the minorities mentality then you are wrong. I just can't stand the hypocrisy of this type of stuff, it drives me mad that some people think they're so morally superior yet when something like this happens where the side we don't like is the victim, suddenly it's a muffled 'oh well you know it's because...' reaction, it's cowardice and in a way if you wanna go deeper it could even be seen as subliminally prejudice as different reactions to the same crimes promote the notion there are different moral standards for different ethnicities, and like I said before I believe people should be treated equally. We don't need to justify these things from any side, we should be outraged by all forms of prejudice and hate, we don't need to try and soften the blows, we should see things for what they are as people are conscious individual beings who should be held accountable for their actions, white or black, or Muslim or Christian.


Me questioning the lack of outrage is what it is, calling out the hypocrisy, it's not no G-O-P tactic, I have no desire to be a GOP tactician in any part of my life let alone on a Madonna forum, lol.

6 hours ago, Chris_Tanasoff said:

I don't agree with that sentiment. You can't oppress the dominant race. We can condemn individual acts but there's no comparing the racism the black community face to the mean comments white people face, on occasion. There is no comparison. The prejudice is and was much worse in the black community. They were slaves. Some folks (Millions) still think they should be slaves. It is absolutely not correct to call them equally bad. 

Who said about comparing an entire history to individual acts? Individual hate crimes are what I was talking about. If 3 white people beat up a black person because they're black it's a hate crime and if it's the other way around it's a hate crime just the same. That's what I was talking about.

6 hours ago, Chris_Tanasoff said:

Why don't you judge people for how they vote? Trump voters for instance empowered a racist, misogynist demagogue. Their vote has consequences so if they tell you who they voted for, you can absolutely judge them. It's not this sacred, secret matter that we shouldn't speak of. Trump voters empowered an outright racist who will take away the health insurance of 20 million Americans and gut any form of birth control program. It's perfectly fine to judge them and to tell them what they have done. 

The reason they use it is because they're insecure. Trump could crack at any time because he's so mentally unstable and rather than face that reality they spend all their time defending. It's literally classic behaviour, you'd expect this, in this situation. 

Because people are individuals and I don't like to presume things in terms of voting for either or. I actually like to hear peoples reasons before I condemn them simply for their vote, sorry if that makes me a horrific person.

Like for instance, I found out a few months ago about Cubans 4 Trump, they voted for Donald and supported him vigorously. I can't look at them and scream that they are xenophobic misogynist bigots. People are individuals and there's more than just the mainstream narrative to look at in situations like this (a divisive election). There was a black vote and even a Latino vote for Trump that was bigger than expected, wasn't there? To dust them off as ignorant or Uncle Toms is just prejudice and dismissive. It annoyed me when people decided to label Kanye such things because of his so called outburst.
It's good to hear from these people before we totally just shout them down, even with the white american voters, to simply shun them all and label them as racist before acknowledging the individual reasoning means we don't get the full picture other than what were imposing on them. At a time like this communication is key, and going to the people who are on the other side of your thinking and listening to their view is probably a good thing to do, if even it turns out they've proven you right, atleast you can say you bothered. *shrug*

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, billiejean said:

I don't get the but in your last sentence.

Truth is? No that is not the truth. I did condemn the crime. I didn't post the video, I joined the conversation.
And if you're trying to say I have a fuck the minorities mentality then you are wrong. I just can't stand the hypocrisy of this type of stuff, it drives me mad that some people think they're so morally superior yet when something like this happens where the side we don't like is the victim, suddenly it's a muffled 'oh well you know it's because...' reaction, it's cowardice and in a way if you wanna go deeper it could even be seen as subliminally prejudice as different reactions to the same crimes promote the notion there are different moral standards for different ethnicities, and like I said before I believe people should be treated equally. We don't need to justify these things from any side, we should be outraged by all forms of prejudice and hate, we don't need to try and soften the blows, we should see things for what they are as people are conscious individual beings who should be held accountable for their actions, white or black, or Muslim or Christian.


Me questioning the lack of outrage is what it is, calling out the hypocrisy, it's not no G-O-P tactic, I have no desire to be a GOP tactician in any part of my life let alone on a Madonna forum, lol.

Who said about comparing an entire history to individual acts? Individual hate crimes are what I was talking about. If 3 white people beat up a black person because they're black it's a hate crime and if it's the other way around it's a hate crime just the same. That's what I was talking about.

Because people are individuals and I don't like to presume things in terms of voting for either or. I actually like to hear peoples reasons before I condemn them simply for their vote, sorry if that makes me a horrific person.

Like for instance, I found out a few months ago about Cubans 4 Trump, they voted for Donald and supported him vigorously. I can't look at them and scream that they are xenophobic misogynist bigots. People are individuals and there's more than just the mainstream narrative to look at in situations like this (a divisive election). There was a black vote and even a Latino vote for Trump that was bigger than expected, wasn't there? To dust them off as ignorant or Uncle Toms is just prejudice and dismissive. It annoyed me when people decided to label Kanye such things because of his so called outburst.
It's good to hear from these people before we totally just shout them down, even with the white american voters, to simply shun them all and label them as racist before acknowledging the individual reasoning means we don't get the full picture other than what were imposing on them. At a time like this communication is key, and going to the people who are on the other side of your thinking and listening to their view is probably a good thing to do, if even it turns out they've proven you right, atleast you can say you bothered. *shrug*

Where's the hypocrisy? Who in their right mind would justify that video?! Honestly seems like you simply don't want to get it. 

And to answer your questions on why some ethnic minorities voted for Trump I can't give you the answer for that but I must assume those are people who have supported the GOP so they would have voted for a GOP candidate blindly. Also as I said Trump promised certain things which makes much sense but very, very hard to deliver; Creating new jobs for example and of course his Drain The Swamp rethoric were one of his major strengths but very few people realised that he meant draining the liberal elite swamp by substituting it with the right wing elite swamp. 

Also, another point which I think it's very valid and by all means people here can show me a different angle is the fact a lot of people belonging to a minority group loath themselves because of they way they have been treated and negatively considered by the majority so in order to feel "the same" or accepted they would agree with the GOP agenda and actually loath immigrants themselves. I have seen a lot of second generation immigrants or even first generation immigrants agreeing with Brexit for example.

Another way to explain it is how years and years of brainwashing into believing that homosexuality is wrong or a sin or disgusting would bring a gay man to become homophobic himself and perfectly being fine in repressing his innermost feelings or lead a double life. Does that make sense? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is sad to read, it really shows how divisive politics in general are. I think everyone can agree that hate crimes cannot be accepted, no matter where they come from. I think the reason why people are more sensitive when it comes to crimes committed against blacks, mexicans or muslims is because historically, those people faced constant discrimination, both privately and in the law, and there's still a LOT of racism against them today, way more than against white people. Trump's election is one example of that even if it wasn't the only reason he got elected. Same with the rise of far right parties in Europe like UKIP (i know UK is not part of Europe anymore but still) or the Front National in France, both extremely against minorities. This is quite a terrifying situation and we need to face it seriously. We of course don't have to turn a blind eye to crimes committed against white people, that'd be hypocritical. But context is important, mostly when one group is more vulnerable than the others. There is no political movement against white people in the world right now, but there is a huge political movement against minorities. Let's not forget that.

 

I don't even understand why racism exists in the first place honestly. Hating someone else just because they have a different skin color or religion is just incomprehensible to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, madonnasuperfan01 said:

This thread is sad to read, it really shows how divisive politics in general are. I think everyone can agree that hate crimes cannot be accepted, no matter where they come from. I think the reason why people are more sensitive when it comes to crimes committed against blacks, mexicans or muslims is because historically, those people faced constant discrimination, both privately and in the law, and there's still a LOT of racism against them today, way more than against white people. Trump's election is one example of that even if it wasn't the only reason he got elected. Same with the rise of far right parties in Europe like UKIP (i know UK is not part of Europe anymore but still) or the Front National in France, both extremely against minorities. This is quite a terrifying situation and we need to face it seriously. We of course don't have to turn a blind eye to crimes committed against white people, that'd be hypocritical. But context is important, mostly when one group is more vulnerable than the others. There is no political movement against white people in the world right now, but there is a huge political movement against minorities. Let's not forget that.

 

I don't even understand why racism exists in the first place honestly. Hating someone else just because they have a different skin color or religion is just incomprehensible to me.

This 100%. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, billiejean said:

I don't get the but in your last sentence.

Truth is? No that is not the truth. I did condemn the crime. I didn't post the video, I joined the conversation.
And if you're trying to say I have a fuck the minorities mentality then you are wrong. I just can't stand the hypocrisy of this type of stuff, it drives me mad that some people think they're so morally superior yet when something like this happens where the side we don't like is the victim, suddenly it's a muffled 'oh well you know it's because...' reaction, it's cowardice and in a way if you wanna go deeper it could even be seen as subliminally prejudice as different reactions to the same crimes promote the notion there are different moral standards for different ethnicities, and like I said before I believe people should be treated equally. We don't need to justify these things from any side, we should be outraged by all forms of prejudice and hate, we don't need to try and soften the blows, we should see things for what they are as people are conscious individual beings who should be held accountable for their actions, white or black, or Muslim or Christian.


Me questioning the lack of outrage is what it is, calling out the hypocrisy, it's not no G-O-P tactic, I have no desire to be a GOP tactician in any part of my life let alone on a Madonna forum, lol.

Who said about comparing an entire history to individual acts? Individual hate crimes are what I was talking about. If 3 white people beat up a black person because they're black it's a hate crime and if it's the other way around it's a hate crime just the same. That's what I was talking about.

Because people are individuals and I don't like to presume things in terms of voting for either or. I actually like to hear peoples reasons before I condemn them simply for their vote, sorry if that makes me a horrific person.

Like for instance, I found out a few months ago about Cubans 4 Trump, they voted for Donald and supported him vigorously. I can't look at them and scream that they are xenophobic misogynist bigots. People are individuals and there's more than just the mainstream narrative to look at in situations like this (a divisive election). There was a black vote and even a Latino vote for Trump that was bigger than expected, wasn't there? To dust them off as ignorant or Uncle Toms is just prejudice and dismissive. It annoyed me when people decided to label Kanye such things because of his so called outburst.
It's good to hear from these people before we totally just shout them down, even with the white american voters, to simply shun them all and label them as racist before acknowledging the individual reasoning means we don't get the full picture other than what were imposing on them. At a time like this communication is key, and going to the people who are on the other side of your thinking and listening to their view is probably a good thing to do, if even it turns out they've proven you right, atleast you can say you bothered. *shrug*

I like your brain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 06/01/2017 at 0:45 AM, billiejean said:

That attack is repulsive and I'm so happy they've been charged with a hate crime. It was a racist hate crime end of story, the fact that they even had to question it shows the hypocrisy going on here. They're on a live stream saying fuck white people & fuck Trump, if it was fuck Obama or fuck black people there would be outrage by all the celebrities. The other week celebrities were going crazy tweeting over prankster Adam Saleh being allegedly thrown off a plane for speaking arabic (not true), but where are the celebrities? Hypocritical cowardice sheep.

Trump winning and the leading upto his win has proven many people on the left to be such hypocrites, making them  worse than the people they claim to be against.

 

:thumbsup:   Thank you

 

People ask a simple question: "why did Trump win in the end?" and just because you want to analyse the situation and discuss some appalling completely non left choices left wing parties have made all over the world suddenly you're a bigot or a racist, the US Democratic party is up to their eyeballs in corruption which led to the dismissal of Sanders and ultimately to Clinton's defeat. I am sorry, people have different points of views. Doesn't necessarily mean you're racist or a chauvinist saying Obama and Clinton got it all wrong on Wall Street, Libya, the US hypocritically cosy relationship with Saudi Arabia, Syria, Russia and so on. It's just a description of the unfolding of events

Then again a lot of people "in the West" think the Middle Eastern countries are all one undifferentiated block and if only they knew how much the US Dollar and the US economy depend on the oil system of those countries ...... but it's best to focus on "nobody should dress Melania Trump" faux outrage, meanwhile the left parties in Europe as well have implemented policies that make it easy for multinationals to have people in second and third world countries answer their customers phone calls and solve their problems for a pittance while those same companies make billions in revenue, most of which not even properly taxed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, billiejean said:

Who said about comparing an entire history to individual acts? Individual hate crimes are what I was talking about. If 3 white people beat up a black person because they're black it's a hate crime and if it's the other way around it's a hate crime just the same. That's what I was talking about.

Because people are individuals and I don't like to presume things in terms of voting for either or. I actually like to hear peoples reasons before I condemn them simply for their vote, sorry if that makes me a horrific person.

Like for instance, I found out a few months ago about Cubans 4 Trump, they voted for Donald and supported him vigorously. I can't look at them and scream that they are xenophobic misogynist bigots. People are individuals and there's more than just the mainstream narrative to look at in situations like this (a divisive election). There was a black vote and even a Latino vote for Trump that was bigger than expected, wasn't there? To dust them off as ignorant or Uncle Toms is just prejudice and dismissive. It annoyed me when people decided to label Kanye such things because of his so called outburst.
It's good to hear from these people before we totally just shout them down, even with the white american voters, to simply shun them all and label them as racist before acknowledging the individual reasoning means we don't get the full picture other than what were imposing on them. At a time like this communication is key, and going to the people who are on the other side of your thinking and listening to their view is probably a good thing to do, if even it turns out they've proven you right, atleast you can say you bothered. *shrug*

You did when you made the seperate point in a seperate sentence "Racism and prejudice on both sides is terrible." The implication of that sentence is that it's equally terrible. It' isn't. Anyways, I understand what you mean now, thank you. I don't think there's any use litigating a sentence. 

I don't think the "minority" vote for trump was higher than expected but sure we can acknowledge that those groups existed. You can certainly look at them & scream that they're empowering a xenophobic misogynist bigot. I can confidently say the people that voted for trump did so against their own self interest and had no valid personal reasons to do so. 

The notion that we need to sit and listen to and hear the white working class out is nonsense. The dem policy platform was further left than any policy platform by a major party. It included PAID parental leave, significant improvements on the ACA and the furthering of obama care, A minimum wage increase, a tax decrease for the middle class, the repelling of  citizens united etc etc So you tell me what magic words Jane and John citizen needed to hear to get them to vote in their own self interest? Because apparently "Mexicans are rapists" is enough to get them to vote against their own self interest. The working class were listened to. They were addressed and they were treated exactly the way they're complaining they weren't. What happened was the working class are so fed up of working hard for basic basic things for health care and then turning around and seeing poor people get medicade. They're fed up with working hard to just to be able to buy their kids Christmas presents and then turning around to see poor people get presents for their kids for free. 

To be clear, they voted to not be able to afford cancer treatment because they're fed up of watching poor people not having to work as hard as them. These people are stupid & no matter of sitting and listening to their own personal reasons will change that. The left don't need to "reach out" and "win back".
These working class trump voters are going to watch their children become sick and not be able afford to take care of them. In some cases they will watch their children die. - They'll be back because they'll learn the consequences of their vote. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, XXL said:

 

:thumbsup:   Thank you

 

People ask a simple question: "why did Trump win in the end?" and just because you want to analyse the situation and discuss some appalling completely non left choices left wing parties have made all over the world suddenly you're a bigot or a racist, the US Democratic party is up to their eyeballs in corruption which led to the dismissal of Sanders and ultimately to Clinton's defeat. I am sorry, people have different points of views. Doesn't necessarily mean you're racist or a chauvinist saying Obama and Clinton got it all wrong on Wall Street, Libya, the US hypocritically cosy relationship with Saudi Arabia, Syria, Russia and so on. It's just a description of the unfolding of events

Then again a lot of people "in the West" think the Middle Eastern countries are all one undifferentiated block and if only they knew how much the US Dollar and the US economy depend on the oil system of those countries ...... but it's best to focus on "nobody should dress Melania Trump" faux outrage, meanwhile the left parties in Europe as well have implemented policies that make it easy for multinationals to have people in second and third world countries answer their customers phone calls and solve their problems for a pittance while those same companies make billions in revenue, most of which not even properly taxed

I agree with you but I think it shouldn't be a problem just relegated to the Democratic Party or left wing or liberal ideology. I think in the end politics from each side fucked up enormously. We can all say Obama or Hillary Clinton  or whoever made incredibly huge mistakes but I still believe the whole system is corrupted and prone to do wrong. So here comes Donald Trump who would like the average Joe to believe he will save the country from  that corruption when in actuality he's corrupted himself! And I'm sorry but my question has always been and will always be why voting for a racist? I don't care how much economical security he can throw at your face why still voting for a racist? Are people so angry and stupid and ignorant or evil that they can't reach inside their own humanity and accept one another instead of falling into Trump and others racist rethoric? Is the average American that desperate? Has the USA really become a third world country and people just had enough? But even so why falling into the logic of a racist unless you don't believe that yourself fully or at least in part?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are still a part of Europe in the UK, we voted out of the E.U., not the continent, as of yet article 50 has yet to be triggered.

"Racism and prejudice on both sides is terrible."

I don't think you grasp what I meant by that. I meant that racism towards anyone is terrible no matter who is on the receiving end, not that in modern history (past 500 years) all races have been treated the same, I'm not an idiot.


And well, sorry, but I do like to listen to peoples reasoning without shouting them down as racist, self loathing or ignorant. For instance, had I not bothered to look into it, I wouldn't have known that The Cubans 4 Trump liked Trump because they have a deep rooted loathing of communism, not because they are self hating minorities, quite the opposite frankly. Not everyone follows the mainstream narrative, maybe they saw something in who they voted for, whether we like it or not.
In my personal view, we shouldn't presume things about minorities and their vote, as if they are all one people who should share the same thought pattern. They have a right to vote for who they want to without being labelled. There are middle easterns who are thankful Hilary didn't get in, and those who think both Hilary & Trump are equally worse so shrug it off. There are also Christians (and atheists) in the middle east, something the west tends to forget and I did hear about a few of those who voted or supported Trump from far away lands. Why do you think that is? lol, They are a minority in a minority! How dare they! In my view you can't just presume everyone who voted is racist or dumb or self loathing, there are reasons beyond that and it's not as simple as Hilary = Good, Trump = Bad. The media tells us Trump is Hitler 2.0, but there are many other outlets out there, like even Trump's own live streams that people have been watching rather than the television. I think that's important to note too, the sources people use for their reasoning. Also, go and look at Trump's facebook page now and then, there are people from countries you probably can't even pronounce who are singing his praises. It's crazy when you think about the mainstream narrative, but the internet has really proven that the world is not simply black or white. But then again you've already said you have no interest in hearing other points of view or trying to understand so my post is a waste of typing. :p  doh!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, mnino said:

I like your brain.

LOL. On a plate? :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, billiejean said:

We are still a part of Europe in the UK, we voted out of the E.U., not the continent, as of yet article 50 has yet to be triggered.

"Racism and prejudice on both sides is terrible."

I don't think you grasp what I meant by that. I meant that racism towards anyone is terrible no matter who is on the receiving end, not that in modern history (past 500 years) all races have been treated the same, I'm not an idiot.


And well, sorry, but I do like to listen to peoples reasoning without shouting them down as racist, self loathing or ignorant. For instance, had I not bothered to look into it, I wouldn't have known that The Cubans 4 Trump liked Trump because they have a deep rooted loathing of communism, not because they are self hating minorities, quite the opposite frankly. Not everyone follows the mainstream narrative, maybe they saw something in who they voted for, whether we like it or not.
In my personal view, we shouldn't presume things about minorities and their vote, as if they are all one people who should share the same thought pattern. They have a right to vote for who they want to without being labelled. There are middle easterns who are thankful Hilary didn't get in, and those who think both Hilary & Trump are equally worse so shrug it off. There are also Christians (and atheists) in the middle east, something the west tends to forget and I did hear about a few of those who voted or supported Trump from far away lands. Why do you think that is? lol, They are a minority in a minority! How dare they! In my view you can't just presume everyone who voted is racist or dumb or self loathing, there are reasons beyond that and it's not as simple as Hilary = Good, Trump = Bad. The media tells us Trump is Hitler 2.0, but there are many other outlets out there, like even Trump's own live streams that people have been watching rather than the television. I think that's important to note too, the sources people use for their reasoning. Also, go and look at Trump's facebook page now and then, there are people from countries you probably can't even pronounce who are singing his praises. It's crazy when you think about the mainstream narrative, but the internet has really proven that the world is not simply black or white. But then again you've already said you have no interest in hearing other points of view or trying to understand so my post is a waste of typing. :p  doh!

I think a lot of people might "pretend" to like Trump because they hate America or the West in general. In fact ISIS was extremely happy when Brexit came to be and they were also very happy when Trump won the election. I think ISIS or any other anti West organisation loves it when panic and division and any sort of clonflics happen in our democracies because they want to destroy them. That's why they use terrorism to create panic and confusion and fear in our societies. A lot of people unwillingly have fallen into the trap of that fear and they very possibly voted for Trump and Brexit because they seemed to be the only solutions to stop terrorism.

And listen my friend I am not so cynical to go as far as to say every Trump voter or supporter is racist but what alternative can you give? We have all heard him say racist things during his campaign. I can give people the benefit of the doubt but in the end wouldnt you at least question your reason or your integrity before picking a particular candidate? All in all a lot of his supporters didn't act nice during his campaign rallies. He didn't berate them at all but he actually stood by them pumping up their egos in the process. If a US candidate deliberately spread a racist agenda how can we even discuss hate crimes with a racial background? 

Its not about believing Hillary is the angel sent from God and Trump is Satan on earth. I'm not that shallow lol I think they both belong to the same corrupted system. But Hillary was truly the lesser evil. That's always been my point. Trump is opportunistic, a megalomaniac with little knowledge of what's going in the real world. He asserted himself as a people man... I mean is that a joke? He lives in a golden palace for crying out loud. He's a billionaire with no particular political or diplomatic skill. His tweets disasters are a testament to that. He comes across so arrogant with little understanding for the most mundane things. He truly believes he's some God and everybody should just be in awe of him. There's no way people can possibly accept this man as a US president. The first thing a president should have is humanity. Because that's what makes a man or a woman in that respect in the first place. Now now does Trump come across as a man with humanity? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MeakMaker said:

I think a lot of people might "pretend" to like Trump because they hate America or the West in general. In fact ISIS was extremely happy when Brexit came to be and they were also very happy when Trump won the election. I think ISIS or any other anti West organisation loves it when panic and division and any sort of clonflics happen in our democracies because they want to destroy them. That's why they use terrorism to create panic and confusion and fear in our societies. A lot of people unwillingly have fallen into the trap of that fear and they very possibly voted for Trump and Brexit because they seemed to be the only solutions to stop terrorism.

And listen my friend I am not so cynical to go as far as to say every Trump voter or supporter is racist but what alternative can you give? We have all heard him say racist things during his campaign. I can give people the benefit of the doubt but in the end wouldnt you at least question your reason or your integrity before picking a particular candidate? All in all a lot of his supporters didn't act nice during his campaign rallies. He didn't berate them at all but he actually stood by them pumping up their egos in the process. If a US candidate deliberately spread a racist agenda how can we even discuss hate crimes with a racial background? 

Its not about believing Hillary is the angel sent from God and Trump is Satan on earth. I'm not that shallow lol I think they both belong to the same corrupted system. But Hillary was truly the lesser evil. That's always been my point. Trump is opportunistic, a megalomaniac with little knowledge of what's going in the real world. He asserted himself as a people man... I mean is that a joke? He lives in a golden palace for crying out loud. He's a billionaire with no particular political or diplomatic skill. His tweets disasters are a testament to that. He comes across so arrogant with little understanding for the most mundane things. He truly believes he's some God and everybody should just be in awe of him. There's no way people can possibly accept this man as a US president. The first thing a president should have is humanity. Because that's what makes a man or a woman in that respect in the first place. Now now does Trump come across as a man with humanity? 

 

At the end of the day this is what matters and no, he doesn't. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"There's no way people can possibly accept this man as a US president."

So what do you suppose should happen?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, drunkbysix said:

It really seems like white people wait for something like this to happen so they can use it to bash the left, and cry "HYPOCRISY!" And it's awfully sad. This behavior is inexcusable, but there are HUNDREDS of hate crimes that happen against black people, like THESE http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/local-news/133031243-story every day that are swept under the rug, not covered and the people who do it get away with it. It annoys me so much that crimes like this one are used by some white people as ultimately an excuse to be racist. They can't wait to call these black people thugs and cry about how racism against them exist (which is IMPOSSIBLE) Violence is VIOLENCE. Hate is HATE. It has no boundaries and it's not discriminatory. If you're using this crime to condemn anybody but the people involved, you're doing the MOST

"The behaviour is inexcusable, but..."

Don't you see how the BUT is #problematic. The "but" and the continued talk of how white people do things may not be intentional but make the event of this boy being kidnapped seem EXCUSABLE.

You are accusing me of doing 'the most' (most what?) for expressing my views on a Madonna forum in regards to the social justice liberal Don Lemon discussion (I think the woman was Simone Saunders?) types who had the audacity to downplay this as just misguided kids, or Shaun King who is apparently the king of justice for race relations, who said he won't tweet about it because it's done and over and used his article to further go on about how black people are victims and how Donald Trump was accused of rape. He even mentioned the horrific murder of Emmet Till. So what is it? A tally? White people being attacked doesn't matter too much because, well, black people suffer more? Oh, and also because Trump is president? This sort of shoulder shrug from those with the ability to reach others is not how to soothe race relations.

But it's the predicted reaction all around sadly, somewhat similar to the past few pages in this thread, it has gone from this boy being attacked to how racist America is to blacks and minorities and how Trump is awful. And now people who are pointing out the lack of reaction or the lack of willingness to call it was it is are being called racist. I guess we should just read the story and move on, cause like tumblr says, white people can't be victims, only those with 'all the power' can be racist - a notion I do not agree with. I think this notion that tumblr types keep slinging around is dangerous really, racism is racism, the world is bigger than white or black American race relations, to say only one type of people can be racist to others is wrong and will lead to more of these things occurring.  We can not keep dividing people with this rhetoric.

Saying this is a disgusting vile racist hate crime doesn't downplay the atrocities black people have faced or do face in America. You don't go against the narrative of justice for black people to say this was an awful EVIL attack. Don Lemon somehow couldn't bring himself to do it though, he stopped someone from calling it evil on his show. That is a problem, the media should be reporting all of these things equally. We don't stop racial tension this way, it causes more of it if anything. If race relations are at all to be fixed we need not make excuses for ANYONE, whether the excuses are subliminal or not.


This is now a non story anyway, yesterdays news, who cares? People have moved on from the 12 hours of Twitter reactions to it. Thankfully nothing hysterical occurred due to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

billiejean, i agree with you when you say that racism is not only for white people. There's a LOT of SJWs on Tumblr and the internet in general who are disgusting racists and they should be called out as such. As a left wing person i find SJWs and identity politics in general to be a cancer, they destroy the left and discredit it for a lot of people. That's what happened during the whole primary campaign, the Hillary campaign only selling point was that she was a woman. Vote for her because she's a woman, voting for Bernie is sexism by definition. That narrative was beyond pathetic and it was a disastrous campaign strategy for the general election.

But it's also very important to understand that minorities are in a GRAVE danger in America right now. Yeah we shouldn't ignore hate crimes against white people but as i said we cannot act as if they're the ones the most in danger right now, that's just a fact. The Anti-Minorities God of White People has been elected US President, so white people are just fine as a whole. Minorities, not so much. Republicans want to act as if ONLY white people are victim of discrimination and they have all the powers in America right now. They're going to actively destroy minorities in the coming years by destroying healthcare, voting rights for black people, mass deportation of millions of immigrants (yeah Obama did it too and it was also inexcusable), keeping any muslim to go in America and take away gay marriage. White straight people as a whole are not going to lose anything.

So my point is: yeah let's not be hypocritical and call out hate crimes evil and disgsuting no matter who the victim is. But let's NOT forget who are the people the most in danger right now in America and in the world. And that's certainly not white people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, billiejean said:

"The behaviour is inexcusable, but..."

Don't you see how the BUT is #problematic. The "but" and the continued talk of how white people do things may not be intentional but make the event of this boy being kidnapped seem EXCUSABLE.

You are accusing me of doing 'the most' (most what?) for expressing my views on a Madonna forum in regards to the social justice liberal Don Lemon discussion (I think the woman was Simone Saunders?) types who had the audacity to downplay this as just misguided kids, or Shaun King who is apparently the king of justice for race relations, who said he won't tweet about it because it's done and over and used his article to further go on about how black people are victims and how Donald Trump was accused of rape. He even mentioned the horrific murder of Emmet Till. So what is it? A tally? White people being attacked doesn't matter too much because, well, black people suffer more? Oh, and also because Trump is president? This sort of shoulder shrug from those with the ability to reach others is not how to soothe race relations.

But it's the predicted reaction all around sadly, somewhat similar to the past few pages in this thread, it has gone from this boy being attacked to how racist America is to blacks and minorities and how Trump is awful. And now people who are pointing out the lack of reaction or the lack of willingness to call it was it is are being called racist. I guess we should just read the story and move on, cause like tumblr says, white people can't be victims, only those with 'all the power' can be racist - a notion I do not agree with. I think this notion that tumblr types keep slinging around is dangerous really, racism is racism, the world is bigger than white or black American race relations, to say only one type of people can be racist to others is wrong and will lead to more of these things occurring.  We can not keep dividing people with this rhetoric.

Saying this is a disgusting vile racist hate crime doesn't downplay the atrocities black people have faced or do face in America. You don't go against the narrative of justice for black people to say this was an awful EVIL attack. Don Lemon somehow couldn't bring himself to do it though, he stopped someone from calling it evil on his show. That is a problem, the media should be reporting all of these things equally. We don't stop racial tension this way, it causes more of it if anything. If race relations are at all to be fixed we need not make excuses for ANYONE, whether the excuses are subliminal or not.


This is now a non story anyway, yesterdays news, who cares? People have moved on from the 12 hours of Twitter reactions to it. Thankfully nothing hysterical occurred due to it.

It's not excusing anyone I'm just telling the truth. I'm not referring to you, I'm referring to those white people who try to justify their racist rhetoric with crimes like these

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead of posting viral shit for the professionally outraged to pretend to be up in arms about, like this is TWITTER or something, maybe someone can actually start talking about POLITICS again, especially for those of us outside the US but who still see how the upcoming regime will affect the entire world. Funny how the people actually making real discussion like @XXL never have their very valid points responded to, while the insidious (faux?) right wing element of this place carry on with their nonsense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Kim said:

Instead of posting viral shit for the professionally outraged to pretend to be up in arms about, like this is TWITTER or something, maybe someone can actually start talking about POLITICS again, especially for those of us outside the US but who still see how the upcoming regime will affect the entire world. Funny how the people actually making real discussion like @XXL never have their very valid points responded to, while the insidious (faux?) right wing element of this place carry on with their nonsense.

@XXL and I can't post anything without MM or a handful of others being outraged and just writing it off as being phony baloney so I just come here to poke him and cause a reaction now :lmao:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...