Jump to content
MadonnaNation.com Forums

Trump / US politics thread 🚽


Guest Pud Whacker

Recommended Posts

21 hours ago, KalamazooJay said:

I agree with many points you've raised. Good points too.

However...... 

And I'll say this again  I grew UP in the rust belt and more specifically, in a depressed community. And let me tell you this: 

When those of us in the "township" got our drivers licenses, we were given one warning: Do NOT cross "the river" onto East Gennessee Road. 

Why? Because that was the ghetto. That's where the blacks lived. Where the gangs were. This was said in the 80's until I got mine 1996 and is being said to this day. 

So, what did I do? I crossed the bridge. It wasn't so bad. I actually found a smokey old coffee shop that I hung out at daily. Wrote in a journal, listened to Tori Amos and drank tea. 

Whats my point? 

That there's always, ALWAYS, been a nasty underbelly of subtle racism in the rust belt that was exploited by Trump AND EXPLODED into a mainstream acceptable way of life. Truth. 

You're KIDDING yourself if you think the people on the outskirts of Saginaw county Michigan were ever going to vote for Bernie. This goes for many, many other areas of the Midwest and south for that matter. 

They weren't. Why? Because many of these individuals told me they'd never do so.

Trump is their champion. Like he said, he could shoot someone in 5th avenue and still have their vote. 

 

 

 

KJ, 

I was not contesting the fact that there is a historical legacy of racism in the rust belt. My point was quite the opposite. My main point was that no one would be calling these blue collar folks racists right now if they had voted for Bernie Sanders (which is not inconceivable). I illustrated below how the voting went in three of the four states that "turned red" for Trump to show that these folks for the most part didn't have a problem voting for a Democrat in the past (especially for Obama). If the racists are a majority, then this majority elected Obama. Now, if they are the minority, then how could they have elected Trump? 

I'm not trying to disqualify your experience. There are racist people in the Rust Belt. I just don't believe that ALL blue collar voters supported Trump because of racial/gender issues. They voted because of economical reasons. However, they ALL are now being labelled bigots and xenophobes. 

Once again, if Bernie had won these states (which he could if you look at how much support the Democratic party had in the Rust Belt for the past 4 election cycles) nobody would be calling blue collar workers racists on the media. They would be congratulating them for standing against hate. Well, where were the Democrats that just didn't bother voting this time? Why weren't they standing up against hate? The Obama coalition didn't think that Trump was bad enough to make them vote for her. 

The numbers speak for themselves. The Democrats lost this election because they neglected the blue collar workers that used to vote for them. 

MICHIGAN

2000 Gore (51.3%) beats Bush (46.2%) - 4,232,711 voted

400px-WI2000(2).jpg

2004 Kerry (51.3%) beats Bush (47.8%) - 4,839,252 voted 

400px-MI2004.jpg

2008 Obama (57.3%) destroys McCain (40.89%) - 5,010,129 voted

287px-Michigan_presidential_election_res

2012 Obama (54.21%) kills Romney (44.71%) - 4,730,961 voted 

287px-Michigian_presidential_election_re

2016 - Trump (47.6%) barely beats Hillary (47.3%) - 4,790,917 voted so far (turn out was higher than 2012 but less than 2008 and 2004)

Now check how red the state became in 2016: http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/michigan

OHIO

2008 - Obama won

285px-Ohio_Presidential_Election_Results

2012 - Obama won

285px-Ohio_presidential_election_results

Now check the 2016 results: http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/ohio

WISCONSIN

2008 - Obama won

245px-Wisconsin_presidential_election_re

2012 - Obama won

310px-Wisconsin_presidential_election_re

Now check the 2016 results: http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/wisconsin

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 978
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

13 minutes ago, ULIZOS said:

This is all fine and dandy, but you completely fail to accept the fact that these people have been manipulated because of their circumstances. Not the other way around. Many of them have taken blow after blow, and they're somewhere between feeling hopeless and desperate. 

The right used this to their advantage and manipulated them, Trump namely, and it all started with that Tea Party. When there's a perceived danger, in this case Muslims and Mexicas, it gets people to the polling stations. 

The Democrats offered them NOTHING this time around and I just think writing post after post after post about how racist and awful they are does absolutely nothing whatsoever. 

It gets really, really tiring after a while. We get it, they're uneducated, racist, xenophobic and we're ALL above that. :wacko:

.

Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, ULIZOS said:

This is all fine and dandy, but you completely fail to accept the fact that these people have been manipulated because of their circumstances. Not the other way around. Many of them have taken blow after blow, and they're somewhere between feeling hopeless and desperate. 

The right used this to their advantage and manipulated them, Trump namely, and it all started with that Tea Party. When there's a perceived danger, in this case Muslims and Mexicas, it gets people to the polling stations. 

The Democrats offered them NOTHING this time around and I just think writing post after post after post about how racist and awful they are does absolutely nothing whatsoever. 

It gets really, really tiring after a while. We get it, they're uneducated, racist, xenophobic and we're ALL above that. :wacko:

celine-dion-billboard-music-awards-icon.

Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, MeakMaker said:

Hahah you really think Trump is going to be their saviour by selling them hate? What happened to "I'm going to get rid of Wall Street"? The power has just shifted from the left elite to the right one. Can't you see that?

And nah you just don't get it. This is America we are talking about! if America which has always been used as an example for freedom and democracy is going to be ruled with such backwards views who else is going to represent those values in the world?  So now peeps get manipulated into becoming nasty and vicious; into being a racist or a sexist?! If every poor person in the world has to hold a grudge or whatever oh my this world wouldn't even exist! 

And how many times do I have to stress I'm not a democrat! I don't vote left.. I don't care about politics in that sense. I don't pick sides but what's  going on in the US is atrociously WRONG! I won't stand by it. So because the Democrat offered nothing to those folks then it's cool for them to become racist, sexist idiots?! Im not even sure you are reading my posts to be perfectly honest with you.. you just don't understand what I'm trying to say. I give up with you as well. Have a good evening, Ulizos.

Oh my dear fucking God, I've been posting here for literally over a year and everyone knows I hate Trump I'm not justifying anything. 

Try to understand why you hate Trump and why he got into power in the first place. I'm not defending him and all those morons. That's all I'm basically trying to say. 

Sorry, but you going ON and ON with these buzzwords like racist sexist freedom democracy ETC. says absolutely nothing. You're only seeing the surface of the problem. That's what I'm saying. 

I'm sure there's another post coming from you about how wrong racism. Always missing the point.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MeakMaker said:

Hahah you really think Trump is going to be their saviour by selling them hate? What happened to "I'm going to get rid of Wall Street"? The power has just shifted from the left elite to the right one. Can't you see that?

And nah you just don't get it. This is America we are talking about! if America which has always been used as an example for freedom and democracy is going to be ruled with such backwards views who else is going to represent those values in the world?  So now peeps get manipulated into becoming nasty and vicious; into being a racist or a sexist?! If every poor person in the world has to hold a grudge or whatever oh my this world wouldn't even exist! 

And how many times do I have to stress I'm not a democrat! I don't vote left.. I don't care about politics in that sense. I don't pick sides but what's  going on in the US is atrociously WRONG! I won't stand by it. So because the Democrat offered nothing to those folks then it's cool for them to become racist, sexist idiots?! Im not even sure you are reading my posts to be perfectly honest with you.. you just don't understand what I'm trying to say. I give up with you as well. Have a good evening, Ulizos.

I don't think he's saying anywhere that Trump will save anyone. He's mentioning the causes that were contributing factors in bringing about his victory in the first place. As Cornel West brilliantly pointed out, accenting the racial issue only and downplaying the massive screw up that went down on the class front is tantamount to missing the point.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, MeakMaker said:

But didn't the West become rich and prosper thanks to globalisation?

Actually no. Globalisation made rich a fraction of the population and saw the erosion of middle classes everywhere. This is not a left or right wing concept but 21st century economics 101.

The Democratic Party's job (of all political forces) was to restrain Wall Street not giving it more power. It will continue with Trump I am sure but people calling for the beatification of Clinton or Obama are taking it a bit far and prove time and time again how they're completely oblivious to half the things that have been passed in the last 8 years. Let's not talk Middle East stuff.

Link to post
Share on other sites
43 minutes ago, XXL said:

Actually no. Globalisation made rich a fraction of the population and saw the erosion of middle classes everywhere. This is not a left or right wing concept but 21st century economics 101.

The Democratic Party's job (of all political forces) was to restrain Wall Street not giving it more power. It will continue with Trump I am sure but people calling for the beatification of Clinton or Obama are taking it a bit far and prove time and time again how they're completely oblivious to half the things that have been passed in the last 8 years. Let's not talk Middle East stuff.

Well as you pointed out it made at least rich a fraction of the population and that didn't happen anywhere else in other parts of the world. I didn't mean everyone got rich but quite a big fraction of the population benefitted economically from globalisation. 

 

57 minutes ago, XXL said:

I don't think he's saying anywhere that Trump will save anyone. He's mentioning the causes that were contributing factors in bringing about his victory in the first place. As Cornel West brilliantly pointed out, accenting the racial issue only and downplaying the massive screw up that went down on the class front is tantamount to missing the point.

Again, and I'm not going to say it anymore; justifying racism and that behaviour simply because people are disconted with the current government is not cutting it for me. Sorry that's my idea.. people finding excuses or talking about the ifs and whys are chasing pavements in my opinion. That sort of behaviour doesn't need explaining. It's about time people take responsibility for their own individual actions instead of pointing fingers!

This is the problem I'm having here; everyone is talking as if the left is responsible for this nastiness in society. That's the sentiment I get here and I don't think that's the case at all. Maybe some of you are conservatives and can't accept that those backwards ideas have always been accepted and cherished by right winged parties! 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, MeakMaker said:

Again, and I'm not going to say it anymore; justifying racism and that behaviour simply because people are disconted with the current government is not cutting it for me. Sorry that's my idea.. people finding excuses or talking about the ifs and whys are chasing pavements in my opinion. That sort of behaviour doesn't need explaining. It's about time people take responsibility for their own individual actions instead of pointing fingers!

This is the problem I'm having here; everyone is talking as if the left is responsible for this nastiness in society. That's the sentiment I get here and I don't think that's the case at all. Maybe some of you are conservatives and can't accept that those backwards ideas have always been accepted and cherished by right winged parties! 

 

Where did I justify racism? I didn't, never. It is a false, baseless correlation/equation you are making. Trump didn't invent racist people, racist people are there because they are inherently racist. That he magnified through language, rethoric and ideas that part of society I completely agree with you.

Everyone is talking as if the left is responsible for the nastiness in society

They are not responsible for the nastiness in society as a whole (people that are ignorant, violent, abusive, racist, chauvinistic) of course but the Democratic Party has spent 8 years being invested in ailing Wall Street rather than being concerned with families and jobs. Pointing this out doesn't mean condoning racism in the least, it's merely a key to look at the final outcome and if anything find ways to improve the state of things

 

What do you think of Cornel West and his analysys? Is he racist too for expressing disappointment with his own party and how they have conducted things for 8 years? Or are we going to sit here stating the obvious, that Donald Trump is a loud mouth and he gives a voice to the racist etc etc. Why instead not focusing on changing the current outlook of the Democratic Party so that 2 years from now and 4 years from now all of this will be a distant bad memory?

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pud Whacker
7 minutes ago, XXL said:

 

Where did I justify racism? I didn't, never. It is a false, baseless correlation/equation you are making. Trump didn't invent racist people, racist people are there because they are inherently racist. That he magnified through language, rethoric and ideas that part of society I completely agree with you.

Everyone is talking as if the left is responsible for the nastiness in society

They are not responsible for the nastiness in society as a whole (people that are ignorant, violent, abusive, racist, chauvinistic) of course but the Democratic Party has spent 8 years being invested in ailing Wall Street rather than being concerned with families and jobs. Pointing this out doesn't mean condoning racism in the least, it's merely a key to look at the final outcome and if anything find ways to improve the state of things

 

What do you think of Cornel West and his analysys? Is he racist too for expressing disappointment with his own party and how they have conducted things for 8 years? Or are we going to sit here stating the obvious, that Donald Trump is a loud mouth and he gives a voice to the racist etc etc. Why instead not focusing on changing the current outlook of the Democratic Party so that 2 years from now and 4 years from now all of this will be a distant bad memory?

 

 

well put - every word!

A+

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Pud Whacker said:

what did he appoint him to?

sounds like a fruit loop - and i dont mean one of us!

He appointed him as his administration's Chief Strategist and Senior Counselor

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/davidmack/bernie-sanders-is-demanding-trump-fire-racist-steve-bannon?client=safari

Bernie Sanders Is Demanding Trump Fire “Racist” Steve Bannon

“Over the years we have made progress in becoming a less discriminatory and more tolerant society – and we are not going backward.”

Posted on  November 16, 2016, 22:34 GMT

David Mack

BuzzFeed News Reporter

Sen. Bernie Sanders on Wednesday slammed President-elect Donald Trump for his "totally unacceptable" appointment of Steve Bannon, the editor of the far-right website Breitbart, to a senior White House position.

Trump's selection of his former campaign chairman to serve as his chief strategist and senior counsel has infuriated Democrats and others who view Bannon as a leading proponent of an alt-right, white nationalist message.

The Vermont senator, who was on Wednesday appointed to the leadership team for Senate Democrats, said the president-elect must rescind Bannon's appointment so as not to take the country "backward" to an era of racism.

“This country, since its inception, has struggled to overcome discrimination of all forms: racism, sexism, xenophobia and homophobia," Sanders said in a statement. "Over the years we have made progress in becoming a less discriminatory and more tolerant society – and we are not going backward."

"The appointment by President-elect Trump of a racist individual like Mr. Bannon to a position of authority is totally unacceptable," he said. "In a democratic society we can disagree all we want over issues, but racism and bigotry cannot be part of any public policy."

The Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups, has described Bannon as the “main driver behind Breitbart becoming a white ethno-nationalist propaganda mill.”

Under Bannon's tenure as Breitbart editor, the site published incendiary and often racist contenttargeting minorities, women, immigrants, and the LGBT community.

Sanders' statement came one day after 169 House Democrats signed an open letter to Donald Trump, calling on him to drop Bannon.

"Your appointment of Stephen Bannon, whose ties to the White Nationalist movement have been well-documented, directly undermines your ability to unite the country," the Democrats wrote.

The Democrats pointed out that individuals affiliated with the KKK have praised Bannon's hiring, with former white nationalist David Duke telling CNN that Bannon had been "basically creating the ideological aspects of where we're going."

In his statement announcing the hiring of Bannon, Trump praised him as a "highly qualified leader" who will help him "make America great again."

Here Are Some Of The Incendiary Stories Published By Trump’s Chief Strategist: https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/here-are-some-of-the-most-controversial-stories-published-by?utm_term=.cemB65K8v6#.hdMDMLb84M :ugh:

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, LSD said:

Wow. That's incredible reporting on the part of that journalist. Another hypocrite Republican closet-case.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pud Whacker
3 minutes ago, Hector said:

He appointed him as his administration's Chief Strategist and Senior Counselor

https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/davidmack/bernie-sanders-is-demanding-trump-fire-racist-steve-bannon?client=safari

Bernie Sanders Is Demanding Trump Fire “Racist” Steve Bannon

“Over the years we have made progress in becoming a less discriminatory and more tolerant society – and we are not going backward.”

Posted on  November 16, 2016, 22:34 GMT

David Mack

BuzzFeed News Reporter

Sen. Bernie Sanders on Wednesday slammed President-elect Donald Trump for his "totally unacceptable" appointment of Steve Bannon, the editor of the far-right website Breitbart, to a senior White House position.

Trump's selection of his former campaign chairman to serve as his chief strategist and senior counsel has infuriated Democrats and others who view Bannon as a leading proponent of an alt-right, white nationalist message.

The Vermont senator, who was on Wednesday appointed to the leadership team for Senate Democrats, said the president-elect must rescind Bannon's appointment so as not to take the country "backward" to an era of racism.

“This country, since its inception, has struggled to overcome discrimination of all forms: racism, sexism, xenophobia and homophobia," Sanders said in a statement. "Over the years we have made progress in becoming a less discriminatory and more tolerant society – and we are not going backward."

"The appointment by President-elect Trump of a racist individual like Mr. Bannon to a position of authority is totally unacceptable," he said. "In a democratic society we can disagree all we want over issues, but racism and bigotry cannot be part of any public policy."

The Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups, has described Bannon as the “main driver behind Breitbart becoming a white ethno-nationalist propaganda mill.”

Under Bannon's tenure as Breitbart editor, the site published incendiary and often racist contenttargeting minorities, women, immigrants, and the LGBT community.

Sanders' statement came one day after 169 House Democrats signed an open letter to Donald Trump, calling on him to drop Bannon.

"Your appointment of Stephen Bannon, whose ties to the White Nationalist movement have been well-documented, directly undermines your ability to unite the country," the Democrats wrote.

The Democrats pointed out that individuals affiliated with the KKK have praised Bannon's hiring, with former white nationalist David Duke telling CNN that Bannon had been "basically creating the ideological aspects of where we're going."

In his statement announcing the hiring of Bannon, Trump praised him as a "highly qualified leader" who will help him "make America great again."

Here Are Some Of The Incendiary Stories Published By Trump’s Chief Strategist: https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnashrulla/here-are-some-of-the-most-controversial-stories-published-by?utm_term=.cemB65K8v6#.hdMDMLb84M :ugh:

well, that webiste freaked me out!!!  scared the shit out of me.  fled like it was lady ugly.

creepy.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pud Whacker
1 minute ago, CzarnaWisnia said:

Wow. That's incredible reporting on the part of that journalist. Another hypocrite Republican closet-case.

yes, that was great!

thanks @lsd

rank hypocrisy

loved it!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Im still absolutely mystified why the fking dopey media didn't go nuclear on Bannon, Russia etc etc.. many weeks before the election (like they are now) yet obsessed and dissected Hillary's bullshit e-mails. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Pud Whacker
1 hour ago, CzarnaWisnia said:

Bah, Obama appointed Bill Pryor before anyway...

 

I LOVE CZAR!!!

that song!!! That you even knew it :lol:makes you legendary. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Watching that speech I want to give her a hug and cup of Ovaltine 😔

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/us/politics/hillary-clinton-in-emotional-speech-implores-supporters-to-keep-believing-in-america.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur&referer=#modal-lightbox

Hillary Clinton, in Emotional Speech, Implores Supporters to Keep Believing in America

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS

NOVEMBER 16, 2016

WASHINGTON — Hillary Clinton held back tears on Wednesday as she asked her supporters not to lose heart after a crushing election loss and to continue working for a better country.

“I will admit coming here tonight wasn’t the easiest thing for me,” Mrs. Clinton said at a gala for the Children’s Defense Fund, where she worked as a young law student. “There have been a few times this past week when all I wanted to do is just to curl up with a good book, or our dogs, and never leave the house again.”

In her first public remarks since conceding to President-elect Donald J. Trump last week, Mrs. Clinton told the crowd she was struggling to recover from an unexpected defeat that she said had left nonwhite children and vulnerable people across the nation afraid.

“I believe the measure of any society is how we treat our children, and as we move forward into a new and in many ways uncertain future, that must be the test for America and ourselves,” Mrs. Clinton said in a 20-minute speech. “No child should be afraid to go to school because they’re Latino, or African-American, or Muslim, or because they have a disability.”

Introduced by Marian Wright Edelman, the group’s president and founder, as “the people’s president” and the first woman to win the popular vote, Mrs. Clinton, who had accepted the group’s invitation before the election, said she had had to overcome deep sorrow to keep the commitment.

But she came bearing a message of resolve.

“I know many of you are deeply disappointed about the results of the election. I am, too — more than I can ever express,” she said. “I know this isn’t easy. I know that over the past week, a lot of people have asked themselves whether America was the country we thought it was.”

She implored her supporters, though, to “believe in our country, fight for our values and never give up.”

Mrs. Clinton has stayed out of the public eye since the day after the election, but in a private call with donors over the weekend, she cast blame for her loss on the announcement by James B. Comey, the F.B.I. director, that he was reviving the inquiry into her use of a private email server as secretary of state. She said that decision, by thrusting the email controversy back into the news 11 days before Election Day, had halted her momentum in the crucial closing days of the race and prevented her from ending her campaign with an optimistic argument to voters.

A second letter from Mr. Comey, clearing her two days before the election, compounded the harm to her chances, Mrs. Clinton told the donors, feeding into a narrative that the contest was “rigged” and causing wavering voters, including white suburban women, to abandon her.

On Wednesday, though, there was no talk of opportunities missed or messages muddled. Instead, Mrs. Clinton was regretful and the slightest bit defiant. She said she wished she could go back in time and tell her mother, abandoned at a young age, not to despair.

“Look at me and listen,” Mrs. Clinton said she would have told her mother, her voice thick with emotion. “You will survive. You will have a family of your own, three children, and as hard as it might be to imagine, your daughter will grow up to be a United States senator, represent our country as secretary of state and win more than 62 million votes” in her campaign for the presidency.

Democrats, stunned and dejected over last week’s electoral losses, are struggling to rebuild their party, re-energize supporters and determine what lessons to draw from their defeat.

President Obama told supporters in a call on Monday afternoon that he expected to be a part of that debate starting in January, when he leaves office. But it is not clear what role, if any, Mrs. Clinton plans to play.

The event on Wednesday, a “Beat the Odds” gala honoring at-risk children who have found success, was in some sense a capstone to Mrs. Clinton’s life in national politics. The same event in 1992 was the first public appearance she and her husband, Bill Clinton, made after he won the presidency.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ciccone's Cheeks said:

Im still absolutely mystified why the fking dopey media didn't go nuclear on Bannon, Russia etc etc.. many weeks before the election (like they are now) yet obsessed and dissected Hillary's bullshit e-mails. 

They were too busy reporting on Trump's proclivity to grab pussies. (I'm sure Mook told them that was the strategy in emails).  Bill Clinton warned Mook that Hillary should give attention to the rust belt states (where she lost the election).  Why do you think that we campaigned so hard in Michigan the weekend before the election?  Because they FINALLY fucking realized Michael Moore was right.

So don't blame the "fking dopey media".  Blame Hillary or Mook for not listening to Bill.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, LSD said:

Anyone who thinks it's a choice to be gay, made a choice to be straight.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...