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29 minutes ago, MeakMaker said:

But what happened doesn't matter anymore. We can't change it. Blame Hillary, the Democratic Party, Bernie.. whatever or whoever. What's done is done! No point in placing the blame.

But let's not forget the populistic vote that gaveTrump victory is coming from those peeps who have always been racist, always been homophobic, always been anti immigrations, etc... Those people were lying low for many years and now they seem to be out and have a say; be represented and be heard! I am appalled by that! And so should be anyone.. or so I hope anyway.

Of course it matters. Learning from history, even recent history, is the only way to prevent a recurrence of something. Four years is a long time, but not as long as eight. Just like the UK is probably gonna be stuck with the Tories for 20 years because of the lack of an effective opposition.

And it's far too simplistic to say that all the racists and misogynists of America suddenly appeared and won it for Trump. Haven't you been reading the threads?

Yes, it's a very bad thing. So NOW what?

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2 hours ago, Kim said:

I think most people are just trying to understand what on earth went wrong in the Democrat camp. Or are you going to say "nothing"?

From an outsiders point of view, Hillary was USELESS in those televised debates (granted that's the only campaigning of hers that I (and most people) saw) But who on EARTH thought that standing grinning and silent with that "just let him hang himself" mantra was going to work? I certainly didn't.

 

Agree. So much for Hillary the Destroyer.

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9 minutes ago, Kim said:

Of course it matters. Learning from history, even recent history, is the only way to prevent a recurrence of something. Four years is a long time, but not as long as eight. Just like the UK is probably gonna be stuck with the Tories for 20 years because of the lack of an effective opposition.

And it's far too simplistic to say that all the racists and misogynists of America suddenly appeared and won it for Trump. Haven't you been reading the threads?

Yes, it's a very bad thing. So NOW what?

Merci!

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Fear tactics irritate me beyond belief, from both sides. 

Every republican candidate or sitting president gets accused of being Hitler. That is what the left ALWAYS pulls from its bag. I find it pathetic but even more embarrassing for the morons that perpetuate it. Simple minds.

BushHitlerShitAsshole.jpg

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20 hours ago, pjcowley said:

‘An ape in heels’: WV officials slur Mi* Obama — and say Melania Trump will be ‘refreshing’

Michelle Obama speaks in Phoenix, AZ (Photo: Screen capture)

Two officials in West Virginia have come under fire for sharing racist messages about First Lady Mi* Obama.

According to WSAZ, a message about the current first lady was shared thousands of times after it was posted on Facebook by Clay County Development Corporation Director Pamela Taylor.

“It will be refreshing to have a classy, beautiful, dignified First Lady in the White House,” Taylor wrote. “I’m tired of seeing an ape in heels.”

Clay Mayor Beverly Whaling reportedly praised Taylor’s post, writing, “Just made my day Pam.”

An online petition signed by 1,000 people called for both Taylor and Whaling to be fired.

Clay Town Councilman Jason Hubbard told Charleston Gazette-Mail that the controversy would be addressed at a council meeting on Tuesday.

For Taylor’s part, she insisted to WSAZ that she had already been reprimanded by the Clay County Development Corporation, which is funded by taxpayer money.

Taylor argued that the incident had been turned into a “hate crime against me.”

Watch the video report below from WSAZ, broadcast Nov. 14, 2016.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/11/an-ape-in-heels-wv-officials-slur-mi*-obama-and-say-melania-trump-will-be-refreshing/

 

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1 hour ago, Kim said:

Of course it matters. Learning from history, even recent history, is the only way to prevent a recurrence of something. Four years is a long time, but not as long as eight. Just like the UK is probably gonna be stuck with the Tories for 20 years because of the lack of an effective opposition.

And it's far too simplistic to say that all the racists and misogynists of America suddenly appeared and won it for Trump. Haven't you been reading the threads?

Yes, it's a very bad thing. So NOW what?

As in the same vein with Brexit those people that no one here wants to mention went to vote because someone finally started to speak for them. If it wasn't for those extra few votes Trump wouldn't have won. Same thing happened with Brexit. Finally someone took upon themselves to represent them and they went out to vote. And their vote mattered in the end. I'm sure a lot of people who didn't go to vote regretted it to after hearing the results. But white supremacy supporters didn't forget to go to vote. Those people were so pumped up! Didn't you see Trumps conventions? Didn't you see all the hate going on there? Hate against African Americans; hate against Hispanics; hate against women, LGBT; hate against Muslims. But people are not paying attention to that. So I'd say apathy is also to blame. In the end there's still this other ugly side of society. Hate is alive and rampant and maybe that what peeps need to discuss. How to overcome hate; how to live in a society that help immigrants to integrate instead of looking at them with resentment and mistrust. The immigration issue was amongst one of the most important in both the US election and the UK referendum. Anti immigration views won both times. 

And we will learn from history only when we stop repeating history!

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23 minutes ago, MeakMaker said:

As in the same vein with Brexit those people that no one here wants to mention went to vote because someone finally started to speak for them. If it wasn't for those extra few votes Trump wouldn't have won. Same thing happened with Brexit. Finally someone took upon themselves to represent them and they went out to vote. And their vote mattered in the end. I'm sure a lot of people who didn't go to vote regretted it to after hearing the results. Those people were so pumped up! Didn't you see Trumps conventions? Didn't you see all the hate going on there? Hate against African Americans; hate against Hispanics; hate against women, LGBT; hate against Muslims. But people are not paying attention to that. So I'd say apathy is also to blame. In the end there's still this other ugly side of society. Hate is alive and rampant and maybe that what peeps need to discuss. How to overcome hate; how to live in a society that help immigrants to integrate instead of looking at them with resentment and mistrust. The immigration issue was amongst one of the most important in both the US election and the UK referendum. Anti immigration views won both times. 

And we will learn from history only when we stop repeating history!

Racists, homophobes and xenophobes have been voting since voting began. Your idea that only now they suddenly decided to vote is flawed in my opinion. Trump won because of the blue collar vote in the Rust Belt (Wisconsin, Ohio and Pennsylvania in particular). Are you implying that these are the racists, homophobes and xenophobes? 

 

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Just now, mnino said:

Racists, homophobes and xenophobes have been voting since voting began. Your idea that only now they suddenly decided to vote is flawed in my opinion. Trump won because of the blue collar vote in the Rust Belt (Wisconsin and Pennsylvania in particular). Are you implying that these are the racists, homophobes and xenophobes? 

Maybe. We already established not everyone is vocal about their extreme views. A lot of people are secretly racist.. I can't speak for anyone. I don't know why they voted for Trump. I'm not even in the US but if I have to draw parallels with Brexit.. many people from the lowest working class voted Out because they "don't like" immigrants and it was very clear they never voted before! They were claiming that finally the "estate people" went to vote for this referendum! 

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38 minutes ago, mnino said:

Racists, homophobes and xenophobes have been voting since voting began. Your idea that only now they suddenly decided to vote is flawed in my opinion. Trump won because of the blue collar vote in the Rust Belt (Wisconsin and Pennsylvania in particular). Are you implying that these are the racists, homophobes and xenophobes? 

Exactly. Globalization, decimation of industrial heartlands, people looking for something other than the status quo, trumped (pardon le pun) any racist misogynistic patter they heard from him. Some old guy, wearing his stars n stripes cap, saying "he's gonna bring manufacturing back to Pensylvannia" as the reason he voted Trump, sticks in my mind from the news the day after. That guy's not necessarily a racist, a supreme optimist maybe. The question is, what happens when they (and the Brexiters) figure out they've been fed a lie? A collective shrug of the shoulder probably. "All politicians lie" afterall...

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56 minutes ago, Pud Whacker said:

Fear tactics irritate me beyond belief, from both sides. 

Every republican candidate or sitting president gets accused of being Hitler. That is what the left ALWAYS pulls from its bag. I find it pathetic but even more embarrassing for the morons that perpetuate it. Simple minds.

BushHitlerShitAsshole.jpg

So is that Muslims are terrorists! Blacks are criminals! Hispanics are stupid and lazy! Immigrants steal your air! Women are sluts! Gays are immorals who spread diseases! Don't try to use reverse psychology. You know the right is just as fucked up and they've been using scaremonging as part of their agenda long before anyone else! 

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21 minutes ago, mnino said:

Racists, homophobes and xenophobes have been voting since voting began. Your idea that only now they suddenly decided to vote is flawed in my opinion. Trump won because of the blue collar vote in the Rust Belt (Wisconsin, Ohio and Pennsylvania in particular). Are you implying that these are the racists, homophobes and xenophobes? 

Where are you from? I'm genuinely curious. 

To answer your question bluntly, yes a lot of them are. They may not realize or understand that they are, but a lot of these individuals from Youngstown OH, Flint MI, and rural Pennsylvania absolutely have xenophobic, homophobic, and racist tendencies. It's not based out of a hatred for minorities, but out of a fear of them perpetrated by the right. And the Donald rathched up that fear and threw gasoline on an already burning fire. 

 Now, before you come for me, know this. I grew up in an extremely depressed community until I was 21. Saginaw, MI. This city has gotten progressively worse economically over the last 30 years. The bottom has yet to fall out. Population declining, the roads are from a third world country, and its core industries have been hollowed out. 

I still go home every 3 months or so to see my family, mom, dad and sister. Even THEY have become more racist. I've never heard some of the racial slurs from them that I've heard over the last 6-8 years. It's horrifying. And when I visit my friends from H.S, I hear the same shit.

Calling Mi* Obama an ape.

Saying that Barrack is from Kenya. 

This isn't fringe thinking! I actually KNOW people who say and think these things. 

Indivuduals in these declining rust belt cities have been made to believe in white nationalism without even knowing it. That's what I find so unbelievably scary. 

 

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5 minutes ago, MeakMaker said:

So is that Muslims are terrorists! Blacks are criminals! Hispanics are stupid and lazy! Immigrants steal your air! Women are sluts! Gays are immorals who spread diseases! Don't try to use reverse psychology. You know the right is just as fucked up and they've been using scaremonging as part of their agenda long before anyone else! 

Only the other side is bad, or it's "reverse psychology"?

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8 minutes ago, Kim said:

Exactly. Globalization, decimation of industrial heartlands, people looking for something other than the status quo, trumped (pardon le pun) any racist misogynistic patter they heard from him. Some old guy, wearing his stars n stripes cap, saying "he's gonna bring manufacturing back to Pensylvannia" sticks in my mind from the news the day after. That guy's not necessarily a racist, a supreme optimist maybe. The question is, what happens when they (and the Brexiters) figure out they've been fed a lie? A collective shrug of the shoulder probably. "All politicians lie" afterall...

The Donald not a racist?! He's giving powers to someone who was in charge of the KKK. Do we need to hear him as the N word to see he's a racist?! Oh wait maybe he already did but he paid money for that not to be heard on some tape! But let's not worry too much because maybe under his administration the N word will be complete free of any offence and it can be used at anybody's discretion. 

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People always say, the elites were/are living in a bubble. And I agree up to a certain point. The so called intelligentia does not really have a relation to the problems of the working class people. Do they know about their problems? Yes. And they probably even understand the reasons for those problem much better that those working class people. But in the end those problems are far far away. Of course working class people will find that arrogant and elitist. That said, the working class people are living in a bubble as well. Let's face it, those rural areas are not really melting pots. You don't find the diversity of people there. It basically is a white society. They have no relation to black, latino or gay communities. Now someone comes alone and simply puts the blame on very complex issues on them. This creates racism and xenophobia. They may not even know that things they say are racist or homophobic.

 

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12 minutes ago, MeakMaker said:

The Donald not a racist?! He's giving powers to someone who was in charge of the KKK. Do we need to hear him as the N word to see he's a racist?! Oh wait maybe he already did but he paid money for that not to be heard on some tape! But let's not worry too much because maybe under his administration the N word will be complete free of any offence and it can be used at anybody's discretion. 

NO, the "old guy" I'm talking about was a Trump supporter explaining on the news why he voted Trump. I've edited it now to make it clearer.

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12 minutes ago, tumbleweedt said:

Only the other side is bad, or it's "reverse psychology"?

Nah I meant it as don't use a rhetoric about showing the worst possible scenario so that it won't happen! And then even say it's scaremonging from the left. 

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1 hour ago, spazz said:

HASBEEN(S)

lady-gaga-hillary-clinton.jpg.8a4aa53956

Should be in every thread 

 

I think hasbeens is a bit harsh. I could see Hilary (and Chelsea ) making a comeback as the new back up singers on the upcoming Joanne tour. Yes, granted, they are no Nikki or Donna, but Hilary could use her cheat notes from the primary debates to remember the lyrics to poker face. 

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2 minutes ago, KalamazooJay said:

Where are you from? I'm genuinely curious. 

To answer your question bluntly, yes a lot of them are. They may not realize or understand that they are, but a lot of these individuals from Youngstown OH, Flint MI, and rural Pennsylvania absolutely have xenophobic, homophobic, and racist tendencies. It's not based out of a hatred for minorities, but out of a fear of them perpetrated by the right. And the Donald rathched up that fear and threw gasoline on an already burning fire. 

 Now, before you come for me, know this. I grew up in an extremely depressed community until I was 21. Saginaw, MI. This city has gotten progressively worse economically over the last 30 years. The bottom has yet to fall out. Population declining, the roads are from a third world country, and its core industries have been hollowed out. 

I still go home every 3 months or so to see my family, mom, dad and sister. Even THEY have become more racist. I've never heard some of the racial slurs from them that I've heard over the last 6-8 years. It's horrifying. And when I visit my friends from H.S, I hear the same shit.

Calling Mi* Obama an ape.

Saying that Barrack is from Kenya. 

This isn't fringe thinking! I actually KNOW people who say and think these things. 

Indivuduals in these declining rust belt cities have been made to believe in white nationalism without even knowing it. That's what I find so unbelievably scary. 

 

As you have mentioned, these folks in the Rust Belt are going through a tough time for a while now just like the African Americans, Latinos and other minorities have been for decades. But the kicker is that if they complain about their disadvantage (not being more educated and therefore not getting better jobs) they are reminded that because they are white they will never completely have it as bad as a racial minority. You see, they still have white privilege to help them. So, should they be content with their current economic situation because other folks have it worse? Doesn't that sound absurd? Can you see how that kind of rhetoric from the Democratic base can breed the kind of white nationalism you also mentioned? I've yet to find a Republican talking about triggers and white privilege. The democratic party was very vocal throughout this campaign about defending the Black Lives Matter movement, the illegal immigrants and refugees. But if Bernie Sanders had not brought up the blue collar worker situation front and center, I'm not sure Hillary would have done anything to move from the center to the left. 

Now, I'm not defending the bitterness that some blue collar workers may have fostered towards people that they think are getting better treatment (or at least, more attention) than they are, but to dismiss their frustrations with a system that has left them behind is only going to alienate them. Oh, but they should just suck it up and go to school and get better jobs... Well, you can say the same about other minorities (but if you do, you may be called a few names). 

Ironically, people in the Rust Belt areas mostly voted for Obama because of how pro-union the Democrats have been. The Dems have been claiming themselves to be the party of the blue collar worker for decades now while painting the Repubs as pro big business. But as you also mentioned, these places have gotten progressively worse economically over the last 30 years and Hillary was a continuation of the same old same old in their eyes. Did anybody believe that she would do anything different than Obama did? Blue collar workers surely didn't believe it. Bernie Sanders would have gotten their vote and nobody would be calling them racists and xenophobes right now. 

So, I'm not disagreeing with you per se but wanted to expand the notion that blue collar workers voted solely because of race and gender. 

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1 hour ago, MeakMaker said:

So is that Muslims are terrorists! Blacks are criminals! Hispanics are stupid and lazy! Immigrants steal your air! Women are sluts! Gays are immorals who spread diseases! Don't try to use reverse psychology. You know the right is just as fucked up and they've been using scaremonging as part of their agenda long before anyone else! 

Listen, it's your prerogative to live in fear. Glow on. 

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6 minutes ago, mnino said:

Ironically, people in the Rust Belt areas mostly voted for Obama because of how pro-union the Democrats have been. The Dems have been claiming themselves to be the party of the blue collar worker for decades now while painting the Repubs as pro big business. But as you also mentioned, these places have gotten progressively worse economically over the last 30 years and Hillary was a continuation of the same old same old in their eyes. Did anybody believe that she would do anything different than Obama did? Blue collar workers surely didn't believe it. Bernie Sanders would have gotten their vote and nobody would be calling them racists and xenophobes right now. 

 

Quite frankly, this "Bernie would have gotten the votes and won" should stop. There is absolutely no proof of that. I think this argument is brought up by people to make them feel better because they can put the blame on someone else without the need to analyze what really went wrong. There is very much a "I told you so" element to it. Anyway. The reason why I think people in the rust belt voted Trump is because of his talk to bring the jobs back. Plain and simple. When you are in an almost hopeless situation you want to believe anything. You just have to. Very soon they will understand that no mines will be re-opened and no jobs will be coming back. At least no jobs that they are qualified to do. They still can look for work under Trumps infrastructure program. Jobs that pay 10 dollars less an hour than their original jobs. They are all in for a rude awakening. I wish I was wrong but to me it ignores reality. Just like Trumps plan to lower corporate taxes to 15% to stimulate investment and therefore create a huge number of jobs. Never happened. Never will. But shareholders and company owners will be very happy.

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29 minutes ago, mnino said:

But if Bernie Sanders had not brought up the blue collar worker situation front and center, I'm not sure Hillary would have done anything to move from the center to the left. 

these places have gotten progressively worse economically over the last 30 years and Hillary was a continuation of the same old same old in their eyes. Did anybody believe that she would do anything different than Obama did? Blue collar workers surely didn't believe it. Bernie Sanders would have gotten their vote and nobody would be calling them racists and xenophobes right now. 

Agree.

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When I decided to vote for Bernie, many people said here they rather vote for someone who's safe and a continuation of Obama's policies than someone who's too risky because he's a socialist. 

Where were all of you who knew that Hillary was the worst choice EVER? Did everyone decide to speak the truth literally one day after the elections? 

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8 minutes ago, ULIZOS said:

When I decided to vote for Bernie, many people said here they rather vote for someone who's safe and a continuation of Obama's policies than someone who's too risky because he's a socialist. 

Where were all of you who knew that Hillary was the worst choice EVER? Did everyone decide to speak the truth literally one day after the elections? 

Living in fear. 

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New Yorker, especially Manhattanites, really can't stand Trump. Three of "his" buildings will now remove the name Trump. Inhabitants were complaining and it kept people away from renting there because they did not wish to be associated with Trump. Other buildings already had problems selling apartments ever since Trumps decision to run for POTUS. Some people, like Stephen Colbert, even took a loss just to get out of there. BUT the shit will hit the fan when police may need to close off 5th Avenue around Trump Tower every time Trump is there. And he already said he will be "home" very often. NYPD and Secret Service are working on a concept at the moment.

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39 minutes ago, ULIZOS said:

Where were all of you who knew that Hillary was the worst choice EVER? 

Most of us who can see it are non-Americans. Where are all those who've bailed from the discussion though? The one's who didn't know the first thing about politics, but just couldn't wait to have a female pwesident?! That's what I'm wondering

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