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BREXIT / British Politics thread

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14 hours ago, jazzyjan said:

Dangerous times for Teresa May and Brexit. If they are thinking of relying on the Empire again, I think they will find the Commonwealth countries will be demanding things on their terms now.   Pushovers no more. 

image-20170125-16074-1wqphi9.png

 

 

Love the political cartoon you posted Jan :laugh:

This is a pro Brexit Labour MP saying the UK betrayed the Commonwealth in 1973 upon joining the then named EEC, European Economic Community. I think that regardless of anyone's conviction pro or anti Brexit there is a point in saying you can't join or leave something based on the convenience of the moment. I hope that if Britain goes back to Commonwealth market exchanges it is not done to the detriment of common citizens and workers and in favour of the usual advancement of corporate interests

 

 

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4 hours ago, BrendanT1993 said:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/brexit-own-goal-changes-politics-northern-ireland

An excellent article.

There is another element in the complex and diverse loyalties and aspirations of people in the North, and it is the danger posed by the half hearted and poorly informed attitude of the Westminster government. The Secretary of State, James Brokenshire has shown a lack of courage in asserting the importance of the Union.

Weakness in maintaining the Union with Northern Ireland as a constituent part could confirm to the Scots that Westminster too has little interest also in their future.

Theresa May should not be surprised if her lack of will to cogently argue for the maintainance of the Union ends with the Scots leaving and many more in Northern Ireland questioning whether their future might not be better served in a newly united Ireland. Ironically for the DUP, arguing for Brexit, even notwithstanding its particular challenges here, is likely to demonstrate how isolationist and utterly devoid of vision they are.

Brexit for us on this island is potentially the most important challenge of the next 20 years.

While the article talks about the new identity of Northern Irish, which sounds like some disengagement from the Union, it is a transitory 'status'.

Personally, due to family North and South, and my lack of identity as Unionist, Republican or Northern Irish, I'm very content to be Irish/European.

 

Very interesting Brendan, thanks for sharing

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London wants their 9 billion pounds they have in the ECB reserve and Brussels answered that only if they give back the 90 billion invested in the UK all these years.  

90 billion!  And still people think that the EU didn't give anything positive.  

Bottom line here is what any nation think of themselves.  It seems that London feels that everything done these past decades was solely achieved thanks to the British power.  And it's not the case at all! 

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3 hours ago, karbatal said:

London wants their 9 billion pounds they have in the ECB reserve and Brussels answered that only if they give back the 90 billion invested in the UK all these years.  

90 billion!  And still people think that the EU didn't give anything positive.  

Bottom line here is what any nation think of themselves.  It seems that London feels that everything done these past decades was solely achieved thanks to the British power.  And it's not the case at all! 

Great answer by the EU! And fascinating how much EU gives to each member and it remains unappreciated! Not to mention what EU has done for the security of Europe! And so many ppl want it to break up. Whyyyy? I say it's pure stupidity! And judging by the EU-UK exchange, the no deal scenario becomes more possible as the day goes by!

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And that's only the money put on paper, imagine all the money that the synergies made during these past 40 years. I recall that in Spain it was like hundreds of billions: more than the whole Marshal Plan for the whole Europe. 

 

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Nicola Sturgeon has said a second referendum on Scottish independence will be called between autumn 2018 and the spring of 2019. The first minister said the possible centralisation of power at Westminster, following Brexit, had implications for Scotland's economy, society and democracy. Ms Sturgeon said she would ask the Scottish Parliament next week for permission to request a Section 30 order from Westminster. The move would allow a fresh legally-binding referendum to be held, if consent is granted

 

 

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Answer

 

 

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17 hours ago, XXL said:

 

 

 

See, there's old Corbyn blabbing away about austerity when all the cunts sitting behind him voted FOR those very austerity cuts!  This is why Labour are a joke. 

 

53 minutes ago, XXL said:

 

 

Granny May thought it was a bluff, but obviously not. 

 

46 minutes ago, XXL said:

Answer

 

 

Is she reading that from an auto-cue? The ball is now in her court to show she actually WILL take on board what Sturgeon's been asking for in those negotiations. Well played by Nicola, and perfect timing too. And politics is "not a game"? Yeah right...it's the biggest game there is.

 

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1 hour ago, XXL said:

Nicola Sturgeon has said a second referendum on Scottish independence will be called between autumn 2018 and the spring of 2019. The first minister said the possible centralisation of power at Westminster, following Brexit, had implications for Scotland's economy, society and democracy. Ms Sturgeon said she would ask the Scottish Parliament next week for permission to request a Section 30 order from Westminster. The move would allow a fresh legally-binding referendum to be held, if consent is granted

 

 

This woman is great and it seems the only sane politician in the UK. And really, its great timing to push for the referendum: if there is no deal, Scotland would become independent and would join EU I think in a year or even less (their law is in line with the EU).

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The Commons just voted DOWN the Lords EU amendments as everyone knew they would; so May now has free reign to trigger Article 50, which was predicted to be tomorrow but now been delayed after Sturgeon's speech...so probably last week in March. Ho hum...

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2 hours ago, elijah said:

This woman is great and it seems the only sane politician in the UK. And really, its great timing to push for the referendum: if there is no deal, Scotland would become independent and would join EU I think in a year or even less (their law is in line with the EU).

It's not even clear Scotland could become part of the EU as Spain officials  have repeatidly threatened to veto any prospect due to Catalonian risks. I respect her electoral succurss but she wants to have "her cake and eat it", the SNP have offered no vision independent Scotland that isn't built on debt or imaginary money. They complain about being run by London yet they are the 3rd largest party in the parliament. Why does she prefer to be ruled over by Brussels where Scottish meps have no influence compared to our U.K. parliament? This whole new independence debate is now centred on maintaining access to the single market but this only makes up a maximum of 16% of Scottish trade where to the rest of the UK it's 63%? How is she doing the best for Scotland when it's access to the English market that is vital for Scotland, without access to this market the Scottish economy would be left in ruins ?

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Theresa May will literally tear the kitchen sink out when it comes to pissing off Scotland over the next year or two, then if they vote for independence, she won't understand why.

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1 hour ago, kangarooz said:

It's not even clear Scotland could become part of the EU as Spain officials  have repeatidly threatened to veto any prospect due to Catalonian risks. I respect her electoral succurss but she wants to have "her cake and eat it", the SNP have offered no vision independent Scotland that isn't built on debt or imaginary money. They complain about being run by London yet they are the 3rd largest party in the parliament. Why does she prefer to be ruled over by Brussels where Scottish meps have no influence compared to our U.K. parliament? This whole new independence debate is now centred on maintaining access to the single market but this only makes up a maximum of 16% of Scottish trade where to the rest of the UK it's 63%? How is she doing the best for Scotland when it's access to the English market that is vital for Scotland, without access to this market the Scottish economy would be left in ruins ?

Actually the Spanish thinking on that has changed since the EU referendum. It's now recognised as completely different from the Catalonia situation as we're dealing with a UK that will no longer be part of the EU. Spain is not planning on leaving the EU anytime soon.

It's that weird Brexiteer rhetoric of yours that I don't understand: "ruled over by Brussels" They do not set your economic policy, fiscal policy, social and welfare and health and education policy. That's the government of the day. In this case a right wing, insular Tory govt that Scotland has not and never will vote for.

And you seriously think that rUK who are this very minute scurrying around trying to pre-negotiate trade deals with any and every shithole country that it can is NOT going to do a trade deal with it's nearest neighbours; an independent Scotland? Nonsense. A Scotland btw, which will become even more attractive for those businesses who want to remain in the single market while the rest of the UK sinks into a low wage, tax haven, shithole laughing stock.

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5 hours ago, Kim said:

See, there's old Corbyn blabbing away about austerity when all the cunts sitting behind him voted FOR those very austerity cuts!  This is why Labour are a joke. 

 

:dead:

 

Talk about ineffective and inconsistent communication

 

On a sidenote, while we're on the subject of austerity, that's exactly what I mean when I say that all over the world the Right and the Left are looking more and more samey by the minute. I said that once in the American politics thread and all hell broke loose. Question is: how on earth you have a Labour party voting for austerity cuts?!  Point in case

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5 hours ago, Kim said:

Is she reading that from an auto-cue? The ball is now in her court to show she actually WILL take on board what Sturgeon's been asking for in those negotiations. Well played by Nicola, and perfect timing too. And politics is "not a game"? Yeah right...it's the biggest game there is.

 

 

:rotfl: 

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2 hours ago, BrendanT1993 said:

Theresa May will literally tear the kitchen sink out when it comes to pissing off Scotland over the next year or two, then if they vote for independence, she won't understand why.

 

Totally

I am really frightened about the direction we are all going into. There's a lot of internal conflict in the US, the potential breakdown of the EU because (let's also be fair) those EU technocrats were too accomodating to banks, then the stupid Russian sanctions and those even more stupid austerity measures implemented in Europe since 2008 and ever more since the 2009-2010 Euro Crisis but also the potential breakdown of the United Kingdom, plus the looming menace of international terrorism, instead of being in a world where post Berlin Wall we are all united and prospering it's as if we are now going backwards

Scary times

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5 hours ago, elijah said:

This woman is great and it seems the only sane politician in the UK. And really, its great timing to push for the referendum: if there is no deal, Scotland would become independent and would join EU I think in a year or even less (their law is in line with the EU).

 

 

Absolutely! A fabulous exception, moreover she doesn't strike me as an arrogant person the way say, a Boris Johnson, Theresa May, Michael Gove, Jeremy Hunt etc seem to be

You know what I find fascinating is not so much that a little over half of the British people voted in favour of Brexit, but the appalling attitude their representaative on the pro front have shown so far. I wonder if May was really a Remain supporter to begin with, she does her job of "let's respect the people's will" so well. Politics is really the biggest masquerade of all. The show is over say goodbye

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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/pharmacists-take-jeremy-hunt-high-10007471

 

Pharmacists take Jeremy Hunt to the High Court over plan to cut £321million in funding

National Pharmacy Association says the Government cuts will disproportionately affect the elderly, disabled and ethnic communities

 

jeremy-hunt-3.jpg

 

Jeremy Hunt is accused of failing the most deprived communities in England through his plan to cut pharmacy funding. The High Court is hearing a case, brought by the National Pharmacy Association, against the £321m cuts. The NPA say that the Government properly failed to consider the impact of its plan. And they say the elderly, disabled and ethnic communities are disproportionately affected.

NPA Chairman Ian Strachan said: “We are fighting this case to protect patients and communities in deprived areas, and to smoke out the flawed thinking behind the Government cuts to pharmacy funding.

“Had the Department of Health properly considered the impact of its cuts, it would have realised that the cuts will have a disproportionate effect on people with legally protected characteristics and those who live in the most deprived areas of England, where there is already a lack of NHS healthcare provision.” The NPA case also accuses the government of failure to appreciate the role of pharmacies beyond dispensing and says they have a vital role in primary healthcare. This will be the first case to consider the duty to reduce inequalities and will therefore set a precedent for how the Government applies this duty across other areas of healthcare in future.

A full hearing takes place at the end of the month.

 

 

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Theresa May has strongly condemned Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon's announcement that she will seek approval next week for a second referendum on Scottish independence.

ITV News Political Editor Robert Peston said the prime minister was "really dreading" the prospect of another Scottish independence referendum because she has "no capacity" to fight it while dealing with Brexit negotiations and a raft of public services which many believe are in crisis.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Kim said:

The Commons just voted DOWN the Lords EU amendments as everyone knew they would; so May now has free reign to trigger Article 50, which was predicted to be tomorrow but now been delayed after Sturgeon's speech...so probably last week in March. Ho hum...

 

Prophetic!

 

 

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-theresa-may-will-not-trigger-article-50-this-week-a3488761.html

Brexit: Theresa May 'will not trigger Article 50 this week'

 

theresamay1303a.jpg

 

 

Theresa May will not trigger Article 50 and begin taking Britain out of the EU this week, Downing Street has revealed. The Prime Minister looks set to keep Brussels waiting until at least next week despite speculation she would officially trigger the Brexit process as early as Tuesday.

But her official spokesman poured cold water over the rumours, claiming the PM had always said she would trigger Article 50 by the end of March, and adding: "I've said 'end' many times but it would seem I didn't put it in capital letters strongly enough."

It is now thought that the most likely date for the historic move will be in the last week of March, following the special summit of the remaining 27 member states in Rome on March 25 to mark the 60th anniversary of the European Union.

The Prime Minister's European counterparts had been prepared for her to make an announcement this week, with April 6 pencilled in as the date for a meeting of the 27 other EU leaders to respond to the situation - a gathering which will now be pushed back until later that month. 

The development came as Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon announced plans to stage a second independence referendum before the expected date for UK withdrawal from the EU in spring 2019.

But the PM's spokesman insisted that the surprise announcement had not had a bearing on the timing of Article 50.

Notification on Tuesday would also have risked clashing with the general election on Wednesday in the Netherlands, where the anti-EU PVV party of Geert Wilders is challenging for a share in power.

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9 hours ago, kangarooz said:

It's not even clear Scotland could become part of the EU as Spain officials  have repeatidly threatened to veto any prospect due to Catalonian risks. I respect her electoral succurss but she wants to have "her cake and eat it", the SNP have offered no vision independent Scotland that isn't built on debt or imaginary money. They complain about being run by London yet they are the 3rd largest party in the parliament. Why does she prefer to be ruled over by Brussels where Scottish meps have no influence compared to our U.K. parliament? This whole new independence debate is now centred on maintaining access to the single market but this only makes up a maximum of 16% of Scottish trade where to the rest of the UK it's 63%? How is she doing the best for Scotland when it's access to the English market that is vital for Scotland, without access to this market the Scottish economy would be left in ruins ?

Don't worry.  Spain will do as Brussels say. And the EU can easily make new rules for Scotland because the situation is brand new,  it's not as if Scotland had got independence with UK being in the union.  For Brussels,  this situation is positive and will work in Scotland's favour. 

As for Scotland,  being in the union will mean having an more independent agenda than depending on those lunatics in London,  at expenses of random new economic ties and a low tax neo con economic system. 

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8 hours ago, Kim said:

Actually the Spanish thinking on that has changed since the EU referendum. It's now recognised as completely different from the Catalonia situation as we're dealing with a UK that will no longer be part of the EU. Spain is not planning on leaving the EU anytime soon.

It's that weird Brexiteer rhetoric of yours that I don't understand: "ruled over by Brussels" They do not set your economic policy, fiscal policy, social and welfare and health and education policy. That's the government of the day. In this case a right wing, insular Tory govt that Scotland has not and never will vote for.

And you seriously think that rUK who are this very minute scurrying around trying to pre-negotiate trade deals with any and every shithole country that it can is NOT going to do a trade deal with it's nearest neighbours; an independent Scotland? Nonsense. A Scotland btw, which will become even more attractive for those businesses who want to remain in the single market while the rest of the UK sinks into a low wage, tax haven, shithole laughing stock.

This 100%.:clap:

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Nicola Sturgeon is a beacon of light that stands out from weak and selfish leaders in this world. She is strong, principled and leads properly.  

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N.Ireland - between a rock and a hard place?

 

Peter Hain, the last Secretary of State under Direct Rule said again last night very firmly and clearly that we need to avoid Direct Rule, and yet Arlene Foster's body language and poor eye contact showing lack of confidence as contrasted by Michelle O'Neill's confidence in asking for a border poll as if that was a priority, demonstrates how far apart these two major parties really are. Then, the unwanted complications caused by Nichola Sturgeon asking for a fresh border poll in Scotland has further added confusion to our future in the UK.

 

Tricky, would you say? There's a lot riding on Arlene's leadership to get the Assembly and government up and running. She'd need to soften a lot, but can she keep her party together? One thing you can be sure of is that Sinn Fein will be strategising, and taking advantage of the DUP's weaknesses and divisions. That's not a criticism of Sinn Fein: after all, what party doesn't seek to gain advantage?

 

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No politician is ever perfect, in the end they all are wishy-washy deceitful individuals - I like Nicola Sturgeon which is why it pains me to say that she's not that different from the average politician:

Nicola Sturgeon signals Scotland referendum could be held after Brexit

First minister indicates she could wait until after UK leaves EU in March 2019 if more time needed to confirm Brexit terms

Nicola Sturgeon has indicated she could delay a fresh Scottish independence referendum until after Brexit, in the hope of a deal with Theresa May on its timing.

After saying on Monday the vote must be offered before the UK leaves the EU in March 2019, the first minister signalled she could stage it after that date if more time was needed to confirm the precise terms for the UK’s Brexit deal.

In a statement issued on Tuesday after the Scottish government cabinet formally endorsed her decision to stage a second referendum, Sturgeon insisted there was a “cast-iron mandate” for the poll.

She added: “And the vote must take place within a timeframe to allow an informed choice to be made – when the terms of Brexit are clear but before the UK leaves the European Union, or shortly afterwards.”

That phrase could defuse a looming constitutional battle between Sturgeon and the prime minister over the exact timing of the new referendum after May signalled on Monday the UK government objected to a vote before Brexit.

The Scottish government needs Westminster to issue a section 30 order giving Holyrood the legal authority to stage a referendum, leading then to formal talks between both governments on the timing of the vote. That process is expected to lead to a repeat of the Edinburgh agreement in 2012 setting up the first independence referendum. The Electoral Commission will then advise on the correct question to ask, with Holyrood deciding on who will be able to vote.

If the Brexit talks are completed and signed by March 2019 –within the two-year timescale set out by the Lisbon treaty – that would still meet Sturgeon’s demand for Scotland’s referendum to be held by spring 2019.

Sturgeon also faces a complex political challenge deciding whether to propose full EU membership or the “Norway option”, where Scotland joins the European free trade area to gain full single market access, without having EU control over fisheries and farming.

The first minister has refused to say which policy she would offer at the referendum, leading Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Tory leader, to claim Sturgeon’s plans were unravelling.

“The SNP is trying to have it both ways,” Davidson said. “It is demanding a referendum because of our decision to leave the European Union. But, in order to keep leave voters on board, it won’t say whether Scotland would seek to get back in.”

With support for independence neck and neck with staying in the UK, successive opinion polls suggest many Scottish voters oppose full EU membership, which could involve eventually joining the euro.

The Scottish Fishermen’s Federation, whose members are vocal critics of EU membership, will oppose independence if that leads Scotland to joining the common fisheries policy.

Meanwhile the Spanish foreign minister, Alfonso Dastis, said Spain would oppose any attempt to give Scotland a special transitional deal or unique fast-track membership. That suggests Scotland would find it easier to rejoin the EU if it did so once Brexit and its independence from the UK were both legally agreed.

Wrong-footed by Sturgeon’s detailed referendum announcement on Monday, May is yet to set out her government’s stance on its timing but is expected to insist it cannot be held before the UK completes the article 50 process.

In her post-cabinet statement, Sturgeon confirmed she would seek the Scottish parliament’s agreement next Tuesday to ask Westminster for legal authority to stage the referendum under a section 30 order. A final vote, which the SNP expects to win with support from the Scottish Greens by a very narrow margin, will be held after two days of debate.

She warned that any final decision on timing would be made by Holyrood, and warned against any attempt by the UK government to force its hand. In reality, the Scottish government would control that vote at Holyrood, allowing Sturgeon to negotiate with May.

“It should be up to the Scottish parliament to determine the referendum’s timing, franchise and the question, which of course will be open to independent scrutiny and testing as it was last time,” she said.

“[There] should be no strings attached, no blocking mechanisms applied and no Downing Street diktat. Scotland’s referendum must be made in Scotland.”

Sturgeon added a similar but more subtle caveat on the referendum’s timing during her speech at Bute House on Monday. She said Scottish voters should have a real choice [and] that choice must be offered between the autumn of next year, 2018, and the spring of 2019.”

But that was qualified when she also said: “If the UK leaves the EU without Scotland indicating beforehand – or at least within a short time after it – that we want a different relationship, we could face a lengthy period outside not just the EU but also the single market. That could make the task of negotiating a different future much more difficult.”

Sturgeon’s spokesman confirmed she could move the date. “Clearly we want it to be before [Brexit] but as the first minister said at Bute House yesterday her formulation was before or shortly thereafter, to enable people to make the choice when there’s a clear distinction – two quite clear and specific propositions to be weighed up against each other.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/14/nicola-sturgeon-signals-scotland-referendum-could-be-held-after-brexit

 

FFS hold that referendum once for all BEFORE this all farce is completed and get it over with detaching yourself from England, this time for real and for good! Damn!!

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