XXL

BREXIT / British Politics thread

937 posts in this topic

8 hours ago, jazzyjan said:

OMG.  She looks likes she has a fit of the hiccups but is enjoying them.  Who laughs like this ?  :wacko:  They could use this footage of her as the basis of an evil cartoon character.  Totally off-putting., 

They are needed worldwide more than ever.,  Bernie Sanders is doing an amazing job in the USA at the moment. Speaking out all the time and exposing the issues and Trump continually.   English politicians need to step up and do it now. 

Yes but unfortunately in the U.K. we have no one. The Tories are so powerful at the minute they seem to be unstoppable. We certainly don't need a far right party in the U.K. anymore after the last big fail of UKIP; the conservatives are proving that they can be just as bad as any far right movement. Especially now with Europe out of the picture it will be like a tirrany here. 

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9 minutes ago, MeakMaker said:

Yes but unfortunately in the U.K. we have no one. The Tories are so powerful at the minute they seem to be unstoppable. We certainly don't need a far right party in the U.K. anymore after the last big fail of UKIP; the conservatives are proving that they can be just as bad as any far right movement. Especially now with Europe out of the picture it will be like a tirrany here. 

MeakMaker, you are back !  

Agree with you, the extreme right conservatives are getting more powerful every day all over the World.  Very frightening to think of how much damage they can do  if there are no alternatives to be strong and step up to the plate big time to oppose them. 

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Gerry Adams and a United Ireland.

Unhelpful as usual. Of course he would say that. I don't share his optimism that 'a united Ireland is achievable', no matter what my personal aspirations might be.

This election result demonstrated (rightly) a protest vote against DUP aggressive language during the past 2 months.

But it's playing into the hands of a paranoid DUP and a besieged Arlene Foster.

Statements like this, at this time and in this place are premature, unhelpful and likely to impede discourse at various levels on resolution of this unresolved place, but particularly during sensitive and challenging discussions at Stormont.

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:manson:

It was the last EU summit for British leader Theresa May before she triggers Brexit proceedings, and two years of haggling. With the self-imposed March deadline approaching, some were hoping to learn the exact start date, but once again the prime minister left them in suspense. "It's time to get on with leaving the European Union and building the independent, self governing, global Britain the British people have called for.

 

 

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How many times does she have to repeat the same thing over and over? People got it. Get on with it if you're so pressed and efficient dear. I think there's so much unspoken bluffing going on behind the scenes. What a joke

Probably studying the best way to screw over British citizens and fellow EU nationals alike as we type

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v5yezhuq57ky.gif

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2 hours ago, LSD said:

v5yezhuq57ky.gif

 

:lmao:

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May she choke.

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Poor Theresa and her unfortunate team

As a last resort it looks like they are now pursuing a free trade deal with Commonwealth nations, particularly countries in Africa

It is an operation internally branded as Empire 2.0 apparently :rotfl:

It's causing an outcry because it is said to be thought out to advantage corporate interests and exploit the citizens of those countries

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Good point :rotfl:

People in India don't want to hear the word Empire anymore

 

 

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http://europe.newsweek.com/brexit-africa-commonwealth-trade-empire-20-564291?rm=eu

'EMPIRE 2.0': POST-BREXIT AFRICA POLICY SPARKS OUTCRY

 

 

 

British officials sparked an outcry Monday morning after reportedly describing a post-Brexit Africa-focused trade policy as “Empire 2.0.”

A report in The Times newspaper said that some civil servants coined the description to describe moves to prioritize a post-Brexit free trade deal with African nations and other countries in the Commonwealth.

But the epithet, which refers to Britain’s long and often destructive past relationship with poorer nations as an imperial power, has caused controversy. The Commonwealth is formed of 52 states with its roots in the British Empire.

The Scottish National Party politician Alyn Smith, who like most of the rest of his party is anti-Brexit, said on Twitter that the concept was “delusional nonsense.”

Smith’s colleague Humza Yousaf, transport minister for the Scottish government, said: “My ancestors fought against [the] British Empire in the Commonwealth. I suspect no-one wants a return to it. The Empire is dead, let it go folks.”

But some pro-Brexit figures accused the British civil service of a dirty tricks campaign aimed at undermining a legitimate policy.

Andrew Lilico, an economist and former Brexit campaigner, tweeted that it is “Interesting that some civil servants are so opposed to a Commonwealth deal they're trying to damage it by branding the idea ‘Empire 2.0.’”

Gawain Towler, a spokesman for pro-Brexit party UKIP, told Newsweek that using the name was an attempt “ to kill an interesting idea by framing the debate.”

British international trade secretary Liam Fox will meet with African leaders on Thursday and Friday in London, and will promise to build better trade links with Commonwealth countries.

Britain cannot strike free trade deals while still a member of the EU, but with its departure from the bloc scheduled for 2019, it will need to start forming new relationships to make up for a potential loss of trade with the European single market.

 

 

 

 

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Where to start in this thread...

Granny May is a complete cunt and treats Corbyn like he's a doddering idiot at every single PMQs. It doesn't help that he's completely out of his depth and usually asks the most shitty questions. It's very telling that her demeanour always completely changes when it's Angus Robertson's turn to ask, as though she knows that she's now dealing with a real politician. Corbyn has to go, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Tim Farron of the Lib Dems has principles but he's treated like an idiot by everyone as well and is fighting a losing battle as leader of a party that murdered itself by getting in bed with the Cameron Tory govts. It will be many many years before they are a force in British politics again. 

While the Lords have passed some good EU amendments, they will just get overturned again in the Commons, and they've indicated that they will not "ping pong" it anymore than once or twice, so it's just a waste of time unless there's some sort of Tory rebellion or some back-benchers in Labour grow some balls.

The latest Scottish independence poll shows a 50/50 split which is heartening, but referendum fatigue and the fact no one actually knows what Brexit actually means in real terms yet is holding that back still. 

This talk of Britain going back to the days of "Empire" mixed in with some cheap tax haven low-wage shithole economy is just dizzying and scary. How did it come to this?

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7 hours ago, Kim said:

Where to start in this thread...

Granny May is a complete cunt and treats Corbyn like he's a doddering idiot at every single PMQs. It doesn't help that he's completely out of his depth and usually asks the most shitty questions. It's very telling that her demeanour always completely changes when it's Angus Robertson's turn to ask, as though she knows that she's now dealing with a real politician. Corbyn has to go, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. Tim Farron of the Lib Dems has principles but he's treated like an idiot by everyone as well and is fighting a losing battle as leader of a party that murdered itself by getting in bed with the Cameron Tory govts. It will be many many years before they are a force in British politics again. 

While the Lords have passed some good EU amendments, they will just get overturned again in the Commons, and they've indicated that they will not "ping pong" it anymore than once or twice, so it's just a waste of time unless there's some sort of Tory rebellion or some back-benchers in Labour grow some balls.

The latest Scottish independence poll shows a 50/50 split which is heartening, but referendum fatigue and the fact no one actually knows what Brexit actually means in real terms yet is holding that back still. 

This talk of Britain going back to the days of "Empire" mixed in with some cheap tax haven low-wage shithole economy is just dizzying and scary. How did it come to this?

Thank you for the recap :laugh: thouroughly enjoyed it. One couldn't make May seem any more of a Disney villainess than she actually is. As probably unsuited as he might be I find May's patronising and mocking attitude to Corbyn in those parliamentary sessions really unnecessary, unhelpful and grating

As for the Tim Farron guy, saw other videos of him arguing clever points yet not even being allowed to express them and getting instantly mocked. UK citizens had every right to express their frustrations at how the EU currently works because they are largely the same concerns Italian, French and Spanish citizens have, however as soon as the whole debate started, long before the referendum even took place I had a feeling those pro Brexit British politicians from across the political spectrum were framing the whole discussion on mere immigration terms and a morbid nostalgia for the old Empire days.

How delusional. The irony being that first the Tories proceeded to dismantle Britain's industrial might and prestige in the 80s and now they're expecting Britain (whose economy mainly relies on the very Brussels centric City of London) to thrive outside of the single market

And now we have confirmation of that with this Empire 2.0 ludicrous project which I am sure Commonwealth citizens would be made to bear the brunt of.

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And like you said, too bad the Lib Dems crawled into bed with the Tories to begin with

 

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8 hours ago, XXL said:

Poor Theresa and her unfortunate team

As a last resort it looks like they are now pursuing a free trade deal with Commonwealth nations, particularly countries in Africa

It is an operation internally branded as Empire 2.0 apparently :rotfl:

It's causing an outcry because it is said to be thought out to advantage corporate interests and exploit the citizens of those countries

Hasn't the UK done that for the past three centuries?  Exploit third lands and benefit while feeling superior? And once colonialism ended... Surprise,  they are not that rich!  

Solution?  Go back to exploit third lands. 

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Dangerous times for Teresa May and Brexit. If they are thinking of relying on the Empire again, I think they will find the Commonwealth countries will be demanding things on their terms now.   Pushovers no more. 

image-20170125-16074-1wqphi9.png

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6 hours ago, XXL said:

Thank you for the recap :laugh: thouroughly enjoyed it. One couldn't make May seem any more of a Disney villainess than she actually is. As probably unsuited as he might be I find May's patronising and mocking attitude to Corbyn in those parliamentary sessions really unnecessary, unhelpful and grating

As for the Tim Farron guy, saw other videos of him arguing clever points yet not even being allowed to express them and getting instantly mocked. UK citizens had every right to express their frustrations at how the EU currently works because they are largely the same concerns Italian, French and Spanish citizens have, however as soon as the whole debate started, long before the referendum even took place I had a feeling those pro Brexit British politicians from across the political spectrum were framing the whole discussion on mere immigration terms and a morbid nostalgia for the old Empire days.

How delusional. The irony being that first the Tories proceeded to dismantle Britain's industrial might and prestige in the 80s and now they're expecting Britain (whose economy mainly relies on the very Brussels centric City of London) to thrive outside of the single market

And now we have confirmation of that with this Empire 2.0 ludicrous project which I am sure Commonwealth citizens would be made to bear the brunt of.

The problem is Corbyn should have shut down her patronising condescension from the start but instead he just sticks to his pre-written script and his withering looks. Every time she gives an answer that is ripe for him to rip apart he completely ignores it and just asks his next question. He has no spontaneity and can't think on his feet.

Most ex Lib Dem supporters will never forgive them for their power grab with the Tories. And that't the problem that England has. Who do the left of centre give their support to? Labour has turned into a right-centric party led by a lame duck left wing socialist, Lib Dems are dead in the water, so the Tories have free reign. Labour supporters in Scotland have deserted them for the SNP and even the hated Tories poll higher than them these days.

So the UK is fucked with a right-wing government pushing its increasingly insidious agenda for the foreseeable.

On a side note I had a good chuckle watching that old bugger Heseltine ripping his party a new one on Andrew Marr this morning. Who knew old Thatcher-era Tories would one day appear MODERATE by today's standards?!

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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/mar/12/brexit-own-goal-changes-politics-northern-ireland

An excellent article.

There is another element in the complex and diverse loyalties and aspirations of people in the North, and it is the danger posed by the half hearted and poorly informed attitude of the Westminster government. The Secretary of State, James Brokenshire has shown a lack of courage in asserting the importance of the Union.

Weakness in maintaining the Union with Northern Ireland as a constituent part could confirm to the Scots that Westminster too has little interest also in their future.

Theresa May should not be surprised if her lack of will to cogently argue for the maintainance of the Union ends with the Scots leaving and many more in Northern Ireland questioning whether their future might not be better served in a newly united Ireland. Ironically for the DUP, arguing for Brexit, even notwithstanding its particular challenges here, is likely to demonstrate how isolationist and utterly devoid of vision they are.

Brexit for us on this island is potentially the most important challenge of the next 20 years.

While the article talks about the new identity of Northern Irish, which sounds like some disengagement from the Union, it is a transitory 'status'.

Personally, due to family North and South, and my lack of identity as Unionist, Republican or Northern Irish, I'm very content to be Irish/European.

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8 hours ago, Kim said:

The problem is Corbyn should have shut down her patronising condescension from the start but instead he just sticks to his pre-written script and his withering looks. Every time she gives an answer that is ripe for him to rip apart he completely ignores it and just asks his next question. He has no spontaneity and can't think on his feet.

 

:rotfl: 

 

Totally get what you mean, had the same impression, following your own national politics from your country obviously gives you a much broader and intense/hands on perspective. I always feel sorry for him whenever I watch one of those PMQs with May, I feel like he's genuine but a bit stiff and old fashioned and not as prompt communication wise. As much as I find her obnoxious she's more effective when talking than he is  (bar when she goes to Brussels to utter Brexit means Brexit for the zillionth time)

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Kim said:

Most ex Lib Dem supporters will never forgive them for their power grab with the Tories. And that't the problem that England has. Who do the left of centre give their support to? Labour has turned into a right-centric party led by a lame duck left wing socialist, Lib Dems are dead in the water, so the Tories have free reign. Labour supporters in Scotland have deserted them for the SNP and even the hated Tories poll higher than them these days.

So the UK is fucked with a right-wing government pushing its increasingly insidious agenda for the foreseeable.

On a side note I had a good chuckle watching that old bugger Heseltine ripping his party a new one on Andrew Marr this morning. Who knew old Thatcher-era Tories would one day appear MODERATE by today's standards?!

 

So sad that nowadays the right and left all look so samey on the main issues, not just a problem of the UK of course, all the populism that has arisen stems in my opinion also from this unhealthy homogeneisation of the main opposing fronts, especially when it comes to banking, the job market, privatisation of public assets and services, appalling scenario on the whole line.

And like you said, it says a lot that people that were very close to Thatcher at the height of her dismantling Britain's industrial prowess seem intelligent, moderate and thoughtful compared to the current crop of politicians! Scary times indeed

 

Aside from Heseltine's I thoroughly enjoyed listening to Kenneth Clarke's rabbit hole/ wonderland sarcastic metaphor

 

 

 

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Speaking of Thatcherism by the way, I love what Ken Livingstone says here:

"Thatcher and Regan's policies legacy created fertile ground for the mess of 2008 onwards"

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, karbatal said:

Hasn't the UK done that for the past three centuries?  Exploit third lands and benefit while feeling superior? And once colonialism ended... Surprise,  they are not that rich! Solution?  Go back to exploit third lands. 

Well people in the UK have for centuries been exploited too by the very aristocratic forces that sponsored colonialism. Bottom line is always the same anywhere you look unfortunately, people that are on top want to keep their privileges, especially the wrongly acquired ones

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