BREXIT / British Politics thread

[elijah]

Disgusting! I kind of understand the dislike against the establishment but what does Brexit helps apart from making UK and EU weaker and its a plus only for the far right... If Brits were unhappy they should ve stayed in and help to reform EU from within.

[karbatal]

They have never been constructive.  Only trying to stop the union process.  Sorry but this divorce was long overdue.  

[Kim]

So in yesterdays by-election I see the Tories have just taken a seat that Labour have held since the 1930s. What the hell is going on down there? And when will that ineffectual zero Corbyn realise he's handing the country to them for the next 20-30 years if he doesn't GO?

[Gaudet]

Corbyn is the painful pile in Labor's hole. Like the trolling leader he is, once again he said he won't resign.

[Raider of the lost Ark]

13 hours ago, pjcowley said:

Corbyn is the painful pile in Labor's hole. Like the trolling leader he is, once again he said he won't resign.

He is delusional. He does not need to resign. All the rest of the labor party members need to do is to distance themselves heavily from him and make themselves heard. This alone will help the general public to realize that there is some fighting spirit left in the party and that there are some people with a backbone. Corbyn at this point comes across as one of those stubborn old leaders back in the day in the Soviet Union or East Germany. And look what happened in Germany a few weeks ago. They changed the social democrat candidate for chancellor for the upcoming elections and boom, for the first time in ages the social democrats are leading the polls. Unfortunately we are living in times when the candidate seems to be more important than the program of the party and if the candidate simply does not resonate with the general public for whatever reason they will not get the vote. It's superficial thinking. But it's a sign of the shallow times we live in.

[Gaudet]

Copeland shows Corbyn must go. But only Labour’s left can remove him

Let’s remind ourselves what’s at stake. Unchecked, Theresa May and her government are leading Britain through the narrowest, harshest exit from the European Union, taking the country out of not only the EU but also the single market, and in all probability, the customs union too.

In the process they could well jeopardise a two-decade peace in Northern Ireland and trigger a second Scottish referendum that would unravel the United Kingdom. At the same time, May’s government is presiding over a calamity in the NHS, a crisis in social care, and an eighth year of shrinking budgets for local councils – which means more cuts to already starved libraries, parks and services for the most vulnerable.

The key word in that paragraph is “unchecked”. This should not be a strong government. It rules with a wafer-thin majority. Properly held to account, it could be held back – at least from some of its most extreme decisions. But that requires a strong opposition. Without one, May can ignore the MPs who face her and the dissenters on her own side. She need listen only to the Tory hard right.

Which is what’s happening now. It explains why a once hesitant remainer such as May is currently slamming on the accelerator and rushing us towards a hard Brexit no one voted for. Because her government rules unopposed.

This is the starting point for any discussion of Labour. It’s the reason the state of the opposition matters. And what a state it’s in.

The election experts are debating how best to describe the loss of Copeland, a seat Labour had held for 82 years. Was it the worst result for an opposition since 1945 – or since 1878?

From whichever angle you view it, Copeland is a disaster. Some loyalists are trying to offset it with the fact that Labour staved off defeat in Stoke – as if retaining a rock-solid seat against a carpetbagging, tweed-wearing fantasist counts as some kind of triumph rather than the minimum ask of an opposition party in midterm.

Others say Copeland is a special case: voters in an area dependent on a nuclear reprocessing plant were unlikely to warm to a party led by a lifelong anti-nuclear campaigner. True, but the Tories had a local factor counting against them too: the downgrading of a much-valued hospital. And yet Copeland’s voters shut their ears to Labour’s “babies will die” warnings, waved aside the party’s long decades as the valiant defender of the NHS, and voted Conservative.

There have been heroic efforts to explain away this failure. Jeremy Corbyn disciple Cat Smith thought the party should be applauded for coming “within 2,000 votes” of the Tories, given the latter are 18 points ahead nationally – a claim that would make better sense in, say, Surrey.

Campaigns coordinator Ian Lavery said the leader couldn’t possibly be to blame because “Jeremy Corbyn is one of the most popular politicians in the country”. Which indeed he is, so long as the choice put to those surveyed is Corbyn, Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin. Compared to politicians in this country he is, in fact, the least popular. With an approval rating of minus 40 points, Corbyn lags behind Paul Nuttall, David Davis and Philip Hammond. And far, far behind Theresa May, who is on plus six.

But perhaps the most deluded response was that of the leader himself, who decreed that the Copeland result was a protest against the “political establishment”. Maybe I’m out of touch, but in my day revolutionaries found a more obvious way to shake the system than voting for a sitting Conservative government.

Of course that hints at the other approach available to those who refuse to read the writing on the wall, even in letters painted six feet high – and that is to admit the result is not good, but to blame someone else. The obvious targets – in the sights of Ken Loach, John McDonnell and others – were the Blairites, either for what they did in government, which, it’s argued, steadily eroded working-class support for Labour, or for what they’ve been up to more recently.

The trouble is, the supposedly mutinous parliamentary Labour party has been keeping its collective mouth shut and on best behaviour since Corbyn’s re-election last summer. The “mainstream media” has barely bothered with Corbyn over the same period, wrestling with the rather bigger issues of Trump and Brexit. So blaming the PLP and the MSM doesn’t quite bite the way it used to.

What’s more, the notion that the voters of Copeland were poised to back Corbyn but were swayed at the last moment by some disobliging comments from Peter Mandelson seems a stretch, as does the notion that disenchantment with Blairism operates on some slow-release delay mechanism, whereby Copeland can stay in Labour hands in 2001, 2005, 2010 and 2015 – with the full anti-Blair fury not truly kicking in until 2017, a decade after the former PM’s departure.

Once, Team Corbyn could not stop telling us about the man’s saint-like modesty and decency. But the perennial refusal to take responsibility, this eagerness to point the finger of blame at anyone and everyone else, hardly fits that noble self-portrait.

So what should those desperate for a functioning opposition do? Inside Labour there is a terrible paralysis. Those who can see the danger – that a few more years of this could end in a Labour wipeout – know that if they move against Corbyn, they will be doomed. Corbyn would relish yet another leadership contest: more rallies, more selfies, and a return to the comfort zone of attacking “Blairites” rather than Tories. His opponents’ only option is to sit tight and do nothing, watching as Corbyn acts as May’s enabler, gifting her the Commons votes she needs to ensure hard Brexit a smooth passage.

They could demand a change in strategy, picking up the insight of election sage John Curtice, who notes that most Labour voters are remainers and it is to them Corbyn needs to appeal. Indeed, the 48% has the makings of a winning electoral coalition. Done right, there’s no reason Labour couldn’t woo Tory remainers alienated by May’s rightward turn. There are several Labour politicians who could persuade soft Tories that they are competent, share their basic patriotism and are fit to be trusted with government. But Corbyn is not among them.

This is the terrible paradox that paralyses the party today: Labour needs Corbyn gone and yet cannot bid him go. The glum truth is, the pressure that counts won’t come from the likes of me, people who warned Corbyn would be a disaster from the start. It will have to come from within the movement that carried him to power.

Change will arrive when enough people inside the Labour left, Momentum, or those trade unions that endorsed him twice, conclude either that the experiment has failed or that ambivalence and passivity in the face of Brexit are no longer bearable.

Perhaps, in other circumstances, it would have been fine for Labour to take 15 years off, let the Tories get on with governing while the party reformed itself into a new, radical social movement. But the country doesn’t have that luxury or that time. It needs an opposition and it needs it now.

Those who voted in good faith for Jeremy Corbyn need to ask themselves what they value more – the dreams they projected on to this one man or the immediate need to hold back a government wreaking intolerable damage on this country’s future. Delaying this choice won’t make it go away – it will only make it starker.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/25/copeland-corbyn-go-labour-left-remove-him?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet

[Gaudet]

 

[Gaudet]

Theresa May facing double defeat over Brexit Bill as Lords debate amendments on EU citizens and final vote for MPs

Theresa May is facing a double defeat over the Brexit Bill as peers from across parties back extra protections for EU citizens and a veto on the final deal. 

Labour, Liberal Democrats, cross-benchers and Tory rebels have all rallied around two amendments that would force changes on the legislation to start Brexit talks. 

One change would ensure every EU citizen currently in Britain keeps the right to work and stay here, even if Britons living on the Continent lose protections. 

The second would force ministers to get the approval of MPs and peers on the final Brexit deal before they withdraw from the EU – an effective veto.

Opposition sources have boasted they “have the numbers” to defeat the Government because the Tories have no majority in the Lords. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/25/theresa-may-facing-double-defeat-brexit-bill-lords-debate-amendments/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

[Gaudet]

Oh come on, grant reciprocal fucking right for BOTH! Grant it for both EU citizens legally working and paying their fucking British taxes in the UK and for British citizens legally working and paying their bloody taxes in the EU, for crying out loud!!

[promise to try]

15 hours ago, pjcowley said:

Oh come on, grant reciprocal fucking right for BOTH! Grant it for both EU citizens legally working and paying their fucking British taxes in the UK and for British citizens legally working and paying their bloody taxes in the EU, for crying out loud!!

if UK wants to be out, they are out. If they can be out but keeping the rights that they had when they were in the union, other countries may have a similar problem. I understand that it seems right for both sides to keep the rights, but not after all the hate the brexist has created against the british people.It´s not acceptable to tell us that we suck, but then want to keep the privileges in hour countries

[Gaudet]

59 minutes ago, promise to try said:

if UK wants to be out, they are out. If they can be out but keeping the rights that they had when they were in the union, other countries may have a similar problem. I understand that it seems right for both sides to keep the rights, but not after all the hate the brexist has created against the british people.It´s not acceptable to tell us that we suck, but then want to keep the privileges in hour countries

Thing is... not all of the adorable British people want to be out because during that fucking referendum NOT a majority of British citizens were granted right to vote, and not all of them did cast their vote. Look at the numbers. The "the will of British people" is a fat stinky gigantic LIE fed by a bunch of irresponsible individuals, who are stuck on a retrograde British Empire idea because that's what they believe they can get the country back to with their ill-informed ignorant slogans.

Oh and the hatred the brexiter cunts have propelled, mostly was and continue to be addressed against Europeans.

[XXL]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/pound-sterling-latest-collapse-16-per-cent-brexit-eu-deutsche-bank-incredibly-complicated-a7580151.html

Pound sterling could collapse by another 16% as 'incredibly complicated' Brexit becomes clear, says Deutsche Bank

The currency has dropped  about 18 per cent against the dollar and 12 per cent against the Brexit vote

 

 

Sterling has endured a veritable tumble since the UK voted to quit the EU in June. But and it is nowhere near done yet, according to Deutsche Bank. In an interview with Bloomberg, George Saravelos, the German lender's global co-head of foreign exchange, said the pound could fall as low as low as $1.05 against the dollar, or another 16 per cent as the "incredibly complicated" nature of Brexit becomes ever more clear.

“The UK is one market where we have stronger views in terms of where currencies are going," Mr Sarvelos said.

Speaking about the upcoming Brexit negotiations, he added: "Even though intentions are quite positive on both sides, we're very concerned about the lack of time to complete a deal in two years, and we worry that negotiations will get stuck around this issue of the payment which the UK has to make to leave the EU, and things will stall quite quickly,” he added. Mr Sarvelos said Deutsche is expecting sterling to drop "below $1.10, down to $1.08 or $1.05".

The pound edged lower on Tuesday  after the Office of National Statistics reported inflation rose to its highest level in nearly three years in January. It was still trading below $1.25 at the time of the UK stock market close. The currency has dropped  about 18 per cent against the dollar and 12 per cent against the euro since the vote.

Although Mr Saravelos’ forecast might sound bold, he’s not alone in thinking that the sterling slump is not over just yet. The pound is likely to drop around 5 per cent to $1.15 against the dollar after Ms May triggers Article 50, according to a Reuters poll of more than 60 foreign exchange strategists. Some forecasters say the pound may reach, or even fall below, parity with the dollar.

 

 

[XXL]

PBS on Brexit and the Northern Ireland situation

 

[XXL]

 

[XXL]

Theresa May uses Labour NHS failures against UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn

 

 

 

 

 

Who is more ridiculous?

[karbatal]

Meanwhile Health system doesn't work properly,  prices are too high for the frozen salaries... Houses prices are unaffordable, school system has less money than ever.. 

Diversion,  diversion.. 

[elijah]

4 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Meanwhile Health system doesn't work properly,  prices are too high for the frozen salaries... Houses prices are unaffordable, school system has less money than ever.. 

Diversion,  diversion.. 

A lot of countries have a lot to learn from Spanish healthcare 

[karbatal]

Well we are just falling so fast that in a couple of years we will be dying on the streets 

[elijah]

51 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Well we are just falling so fast that in a couple of years we will be dying on the streets 

Hope u are wrong

[Gaudet]

You Brexiter CUNTS

Theresa May to end EU citizens’ rights to live in UK days after fear ‘half of Romania and Bulgaria’ will come

Government's plan could be a breach of its EU treaty obligations

Theresa May reportedly plans to end rights given to EU nationals under freedom of movement rules when she triggers Article 50 next month, with a Government source claiming that otherwise “half of Romania and Bulgaria” might come to the UK before Brexit.

The Daily Telegraph reported the Prime Minister was expected to announce that EU citizens arriving after a “cut-off date” of around 15 March would not be entitled to live in the UK permanently.

However, under the plan, the 3.6 million EU citizens who are already in Britain and others who come before that date would have their rights protected — providing the same was true for UK citizens living in the EU.

Iain Duncan Smith, a Eurosceptic Conservative MP, said: “Theresa understands that if you want to take control you have to command the high ground. 

“She will be giving clarity by setting a clear deadline while the European Union looks increasingly muddled and mean-spirited.”

The European Union has apparently argued that the cut-off date should be the same date as the day the UK actually leaves the EU.

It is unclear if the Government’s plan would be a breach of the EU treaties that guarantee freedom of movement.

A Government source told the Telegraph: “We have had some suggestion that the European Commission might attempt to force us to protect everyone who arrives up to the moment of departure. 

“We could end up with half of Romania and Bulgaria coming here if we wait that long.”

There are about 1.2 million British citizens living in other EU countries. It has been suggested that they could be offered EU citizenship individually.

British employers have expressed concerns about the prospect of finding enough staff in the event of a ‘hard Brexit’, particularly if EU citizens were required to leave.

The European Parliament has announced it is investigating the UK’s treatment of EU nationals living here amid reports that some have been met by a “bureaucratic wall” when they have tried to secure a legal right to remain in Britain.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-eu-citizens-live-in-uk-freedom-of-movement-european-union-a7601051.html

[karbatal]

Half of Romania and Bulgaria... 

Stupid racist cunt neonazi. Finally your mask is off. It was allways about it, isn't it? It was always about the immigration. But of course they had to tell lies about how much money the EU costs and how little the UK gets. While in fact it was a problem about immigration. 

And now she tells lies about Romanian and Bulgarian people. How many Romanian people live in UK? 170.000 Romanias and 65.000 Bulgarians. In a country with more than 64 million of population! How much is that, like 0,3%?????????? 

 

 

[XXL]

10 minutes ago, pjcowley said:

You Brexiter CUNTS

Theresa May to end EU citizens’ rights to live in UK days after fear ‘half of Romania and Bulgaria’ will come

Government's plan could be a breach of its EU treaty obligations

Theresa May reportedly plans to end rights given to EU nationals under freedom of movement rules when she triggers Article 50 next month, with a Government source claiming that otherwise “half of Romania and Bulgaria” might come to the UK before Brexit.

The Daily Telegraph reported the Prime Minister was expected to announce that EU citizens arriving after a “cut-off date” of around 15 March would not be entitled to live in the UK permanently.

However, under the plan, the 3.6 million EU citizens who are already in Britain and others who come before that date would have their rights protected — providing the same was true for UK citizens living in the EU.

Iain Duncan Smith, a Eurosceptic Conservative MP, said: “Theresa understands that if you want to take control you have to command the high ground. 

“She will be giving clarity by setting a clear deadline while the European Union looks increasingly muddled and mean-spirited.”

The European Union has apparently argued that the cut-off date should be the same date as the day the UK actually leaves the EU.

It is unclear if the Government’s plan would be a breach of the EU treaties that guarantee freedom of movement.

A Government source told the Telegraph: “We have had some suggestion that the European Commission might attempt to force us to protect everyone who arrives up to the moment of departure. 

“We could end up with half of Romania and Bulgaria coming here if we wait that long.”

There are about 1.2 million British citizens living in other EU countries. It has been suggested that they could be offered EU citizenship individually.

British employers have expressed concerns about the prospect of finding enough staff in the event of a ‘hard Brexit’, particularly if EU citizens were required to leave.

The European Parliament has announced it is investigating the UK’s treatment of EU nationals living here amid reports that some have been met by a “bureaucratic wall” when they have tried to secure a legal right to remain in Britain.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-theresa-may-eu-citizens-live-in-uk-freedom-of-movement-european-union-a7601051.html

 

[karbatal]

Meanwhile like 2 million Romanians live in Spain and 200.000 Bulgarians

And the world didn't break down! The only people who are creating havoc in Spain right now are the Spanish politicians, with their suits and ties and briefcases and their GREED! 

The only people who will destroy UK are the British politicians too! 

[XXL]

24 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Half of Romania and Bulgaria... 

Stupid racist cunt neonazi. Finally your mask is off. It was allways about it, isn't it? It was always about the immigration. But of course they had to tell lies about how much money the EU costs and how little the UK gets. While in fact it was a problem about immigration. 

And now she tells lies about Romanian and Bulgarian people. How many Romanian people live in UK? 170.000 Romanias and 65.000 Bulgarians. In a country with more than 64 million of population! How much is that, like 0,3%?????????? 

The irony of it all is that it was British politicians who bipartisanly wanted to extend entrance into the EU to Eastern European countries such as Romania and Bulgaria because they wanted to weaken the Franco-German engine of the Union, countries that do not have in the slightest economies the size of the four strongest EU member states per GDP, Germany, France, the UK and Italy

When you factor in that Germany took in a million people just in 2015 and we are talking about 150k people threatening the UK or that the UK never adopted the common currency (a currency that basically destroyed the economies of countries like Spain, Italy and most of all Greece) nor it subscribed to Schengen it makes for a good dose of eyerolling

[Gaudet]

As each day passes, I am wondering if perhaps - unbeknown to me - I have been catapulted in an alternative reality where everything is diabolically distorted, starting from local and international politics.

Seventeen years into this new millennium and I do not recognize the world I am living in.

[Gaudet]

14 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Half of Romania and Bulgaria... 

Stupid racist cunt neonazi. Finally your mask is off. It was allways about it, isn't it? It was always about the immigration. But of course they had to tell lies about how much money the EU costs and how little the UK gets. While in fact it was a problem about immigration. 

And now she tells lies about Romanian and Bulgarian people. How many Romanian people live in UK? 170.000 Romanias and 65.000 Bulgarians. In a country with more than 64 million of population! How much is that, like 0,3%?????????? 

 

 

Yes, most of them are, I have always knew that... have lived in this country for 20 years, had my unfair share of nasty racist remarks.

[XXL]

But British politicians certainly had no qualms with the EU and did make sure to receive EU subsidies for four decades, pity that people like Thatcher destroyed the country's once flourishing industry in favour of a services, insurance and financial sector that ironically is absolutely worthless outside of the single market

[Gaudet]

4 minutes ago, XXL said:

But the UK did receive EU subsidies for four decades, pity that people like Thatcher destroyed its once flourishing industry in favour of a services, insurance and financial sector that ironically is absolutely worthless outside of the single market

May the racist cunts who voted in favor of this catastrophe rot in their EU-free island. Let them dream to have their British Empire back the way it was, bitterly waking up to a wasteland and regretting the ill-informed, lies-fed decision they took on 23rd June 2016, bunch of demented fascist ignorant assholes.

[XXL]

11 minutes ago, pjcowley said:

As each day passes, I am wondering if perhaps - unbeknown to me - I have been catapulted in an alternative reality where everything is diabolically distorted, starting from local and international politics.

Seventeen years into this new millennium and I do not recognize the world I am living in.

This!

Disheartening really

[Gaudet]

And even worse, the stupid bastards who had the right to vote on the 23rd of June and DID NOT VOTE! We used to have a primal imbecile example on this forum a while back. What a turd.