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On Thursday, December 01, 2016 at 9:43 AM, MeakMaker said:

If they said listen people Coronation Street and Eastenders are going to be axed if you want out of the EU they wouldn't  have to deal with Brexit now. And unfortunately that shows the state of the country as it stands. 

As much as I hate to admit, you're probably right. If they said no more football, Trump would've lost.

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2 hours ago, Sloane said:

As much as I hate to admit, you're probably right. If they said no more football, Trump would've lost.

That's what we get when we give power to a people who is much more ignorant or naive as expected. Brexit should have never happened. 

But go out there to the poorest and angriest parts of the country, tell them they're poor and losing their state benefits because the money is spent on immigrants and/or sent to Europe crooked politicians and then you see those villagers go out to vote. Those people didnt even know what E.U. stands for! But the fault doesn't lie in the ignorant. The fault lies in those politicians ( Farage, Boris) who conned those people so that they would rise to power and get some sort of an ego boost. They willingly only talked about the negative factors coming from the E.U. leaving out all the benefits this country has been getting from the E.U. for decades now.  Their agenda was rather transparent and now we are here talking about hard or soft or middle of the road or even questioning if carrying on with Brexit. It was such an irresponsible thing to do and now everybody is losing sleep...

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On 12/2/2016 at 2:28 AM, pjcowley said:

Such a "sensible" woman, "the best thing that happened to the UK in a long time".

Puking_SmileyA.gif

You sound like a 58 year old cunt from Kent.

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When does an unwritten constitution not work?

 

Dominic Grieve, former Attorney General has come to the view that we need some degree of written constitution, not because of our relationship with the EU, but rather 'oddly', as he phased it, about the UK's relationships with their devolved regions. I agree.

 

Of course, we have some constitutional statutes such as the Act of Settlement, and more recently the various devolutionary instruments including our Northern Ireland Act 1998 and the Human Rights Act 1998. And then there are those Equality provisions which guarantee rights, much the same as might be found in some constitutions.

 

What Dominic Grieve is driving at is this. He's doubting the ability and efficiency of our unwritten way of doing things, by custom, by the Common Law, all so haphazard, all too slow to react to rapid change, the restlessness of the regions, the inordinate wealth and strength of England or parts of it; so why effectively set out the new relationships and the jostling for greater devolved power by having a constitutional settlement which gives shape and certainty to how we operate our democracy in the UK.

 

Strange maybe that you're hearing this from a non binary Irishman who no longer feels that hereditary monarchy fits comfortably with modern western democracy.

 

Don't be too hard on me. It's a personal view. Thanks Dominic for the stimulus!

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  • 2 weeks later...

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-38368920

 

May wants early Brexit deal for expats

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Theresa May says she wants a deal to guarantee the status of expats "early on" in Brexit negotiations. In a statement to MPs, Mrs May rejected requests to reveal more about the government's intentions for negotiating the UK's departure from the EU. But she suggested the government would publish a Brexit plan "some time" before triggering formal talks. Labour's Jeremy Corbyn said the "shambolic" government was producing "mixed messages" on Brexit.

 

The PM was addressing MPs about last week's EU summit, in which the other 27 EU leaders met in her absence to discuss Brexit. She promised a "calm and measured approach", adding: "It remains my objective to give reassurance early on in the negotiations to EU citizens living in the UK and UK citizens living in EU countries that their right to stay where they have made their homes will be protected by our withdrawal."

The government has faced calls from across the House to guarantee the right of EU nationals to remain in the UK after Brexit. But it insists this must form part of a reciprocal arrangement also protecting the status of UK expats living in other European countries.The PM also said she would start the UK's exit from the EU on time, regardless of next month's Supreme Court verdict on whether Parliament must be consulted.

She has promised to give notice of the UK's departure under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty before the end of March. And she did not rule out the UK continuing to pay contributions to the EU after leaving.

Responding to Conservative MP Philip Davies' request for a "pledge" that no more contributions would be made, she said: "When we leave, people want to ensure that it's the British government that dictates how taxpayers' money is spent." The government has agreed to publish a "plan" before formal talks begin, although it has not said how detailed this will be.

The PM replied "yes" when Labour's Angela Eagle asked whether this would be released "some time" before Article 50 is invoked. Mr Corbyn said members of the government front bench were giving "mixed messages" on the UK's departure from the EU, including on whether a transitional deal will be needed to cover trade arrangements before all the talks have been completed.

There are a "babble of voices speaking for themselves and their vested interests" the Labour leader said, asking the PM to "represent all sides, whether they voted to leave or remain".

 

 

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The chaotic route to train-crash Brexit

An orderly separation from the EU should not be taken for granted

 

https://www.ft.com/content/9ec6ccec-c5ce-11e6-8f29-9445cac8966f

 

So which is it to be: “hard” or “soft” Brexit? Maybe neither. There is a third possibility that is little discussed but increasingly likely: “train-crash Brexit”. In this version of events, the UK and the EU fail to agree a negotiated divorce. Instead, Britain simply crashes out of the EU — with chaotic consequences for trade and diplomatic relations.

The hard and soft versions of Brexit differ in their attitudes to immigration and the EU’s single market — but they also share one crucial similarity. They assume that the EU and the UK will be able to agree an orderly separation.

In fact, there are strong grounds for believing that a well-managed divorce will prove unattainable and that there will instead be a train crash. The reasons for this are both procedural and political.

 

On the procedural level, the problem is that the negotiations are too complicated to complete in the allotted time. Britain and the EU will have to unpick and then reorder a legal, economic and trading relationship that has been knitted together over the course of more than 40 years. But the two sides will have just two years to achieve and ratify a deal after Britain triggers Article 50 and gives formal notice that it intends to leave.

One of Britain’s most experienced Brussels hands thinks the task is unachievable. “We don’t have the administrative capacity to do it,” he says, “and the EU don’t have the focus.” Britain’s ambassador to the EU has privately come to a similar verdict; Sir Ivan Rogers warned ministers that it could take a decade for the UK to negotiate a new trade deal with the EU.

 

If there was great goodwill on both sides, the negotiations could doubtless be accelerated. But that is where the politics come into it. There is already plenty of simmering ill will on both sides of the Channel. The British are hoping that, when the talks actually begin, things will calm down. In reality, it is more likely that the opposite will happen. The negotiating process will reveal the immense gap between the operating assumptions of the two sides. As a result, mutual acrimony will quickly increase — and talks could break down irretrievably.

The flashpoint is likely to be the EU’s estimate of Britain’s financial liabilities following Brexit, covering everything from money already pledged to the union’s budget to the pensions of retired bureaucrats. The estimates in Brussels are that the UK will be facing a bill of €50bn-€60bn.

That figure is likely to be greeted with outrage in the UK. The initial reaction will be to treat the EU’s financial demands as a bad joke or a clumsy attempt at blackmail. But the European Commission, which is running the negotiations, is highly legalistic and will be able to justify its figure. It will not yield easily.

A pragmatic British response would be to try to negotiate the figure downwards and then to spread the payments over decades, thus allowing the negotiations to proceed to the really crucial topic of the country’s future trading relationship with the EU. In reality, however, hardliners in Prime Minister Theresa May’s Conservative party and the British media are likely to make it impossible for the UK government to accept anything close to the financial demands made by Brussels.

As a result, it is entirely likely that Britain will simply stalk out of the talks, after which the matter will go to arbitration at the International Court of Justice in The Hague. The ICJ could take years to reach a decision. But in the meantime the clock will be ticking. With Britain and the EU facing off in the international courts, it will prove impossible to make any further progress on negotiating Brexit. The anger stoked against the EU in Britain by the budget dispute would also make it impossible for the UK to reverse course and abandon Brexit. A similar hardening of opinion would occur on the European side. And that would probably prevent the EU agreeing to extend negotiations with the UK beyond two years.

As a result, Brexit would happen after two years in the most abrupt and damaging fashion possible: with Britain’s membership of the EU simply lapsing. The consequences of the train-crash Brexit could be dire for the UK economy. Manufacturers, including the crucial car industry, would face tariffs of up to 10 per cent on exports to the EU.

As customs barriers came into place, pan-European supply chains would be disrupted, clogging up ports with paperwork. Britain’s service industries, which account for a much larger share of the economy than manufacturing, would also face big problems. In particular, financial services would lose the “passporting rights” that all UK-based institutions require to do business across the EU.

The position of the British government seems to be to hope the EU will see reason — as defined in London. One UK minister talks of the Europeans still being “in the emotional phase”. Unfortunately, the EU position is driven by political calculation as well as emotion, and it is unlikely to prove a phase.

A senior British civil servant provided me with a more realistic assessment. “It’s going to be bloody,” he said, “but we’re just going to have to bash on through and get to the other side.” I smiled at that very British evocation of the wartime spirit. It is just a shame that this war is so pointless and self-defeating.

gideon.rachman@ft.com

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On 30/11/2016 at 8:24 PM, Kim said:

Hey UK chums, what do you all think of the new SNOOPERS CHARTER aka The Investigatory Powers Bill that our glorious leader has just peddled through the Commons? Happy that your internet history is now sitting on a server for anyone to have a good look at? Watch what dodgy sites you visit! Big Brother really is watching. Thank you Tories AND Labour. No surprise that the SNP (and the Lib Dems) are the only ones who voted against this GROSS invasion of our citizens privacy.

 

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CUNT

 

 

As "predicted" by George Orwell some 70 years ago :laugh: 

 

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1 hour ago, Kim said:

The SNOOPERS CHARTER hit a snag last week when the EU court declared it unlawful, after a legal challenge by leading BREXITEER David Davis. Looks like the EU comes in handy sometimes afterall, eh Davey?

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2016/dec/21/eus-highest-court-delivers-blow-to-uk-snoopers-charter

 

 

:lol:  :chuckle: 

 

Indeed

Like when they demand Apple and other huge companies pay their fair share of taxes, not a fraction of what is owed

I wish the EU machinery did something similar on the banking crisis scam front rather than messing up middle and working class families through faulty monetary policies (QE and the likes) that only impoverish normal citizens and bring people more against the whole EU project to begin with in every single EU member state. Another issue Britain never had to face, the currency one. Plus not being part of Shenghen, another major advantage/exception. Which makes those Brexiteer politicians there seem more nostalgic of an industrial and imperial glorious era that doesn't exist anymore rather than expressing authentic concerns for their voters

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:rotfl:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-queen-elizabeth-theresa-may-secrecy-deal-negotiations-article-50-balmoral-a7492586.html

Brexit: Queen frustrated with Theresa May over her 'secrecy' regarding deal negotiations

Prime Minister allegedly stuck to 'Brexit means Brexit' line and refused to give the Queen a 'running commentary'

 

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4 minutes ago, XXL said:

:rotfl:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-queen-elizabeth-theresa-may-secrecy-deal-negotiations-article-50-balmoral-a7492586.html

Brexit: Queen frustrated with Theresa May over her 'secrecy' regarding deal negotiations

Prime Minister allegedly stuck to 'Brexit means Brexit' line and refused to give the Queen a 'running commentary'

 

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:lmao:

...and also :lmao:at the picture = Squatandshootmay

 

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45 minutes ago, pjcowley said:

:lmao:

...and also :lmao:at the picture = Squatandshootmay

 

:rotfl:

 

There's something about her that I find incredibly irritating, patronising and insincere, then again most politicians are. And she was supposedly a remainer. She's apparently now getting criticized by fellow remain campaigners, left and right leaning ones alike, calling her out on her unclear strategy

I think this whole Brexit Means Brexit overused motto without ever divulging a shred of a hint is all a huge cover up for we ain't got a clue what to do next and we'd like to buy some more time to figure this mess out

I am no fan of those EU bureaucrats and technocrat nutjobs myself but damn they are certainly giving those people in Brussells a run for their money as far as arrogance goes. Take your own sweet time to figure it all out, there's no hurry whatsoever. Meanwhile Cameron is enjoying his millions, Farage is no longer in charge of UKIP and Boris Johnson of all people is Foreign Secretary etc etc  

Quite pitiful (I am more criticising the British politicians surprising attitude, not the very legitimate concerns British citizens might have as to how the EU operates now of course, that's exactly the issue, those concerns are the same many French, German, Italian, Spanish people have, it's the modus operandi in disentangling that is ambiguous and wrong)

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/24/britain-should-celebrate-brexit-opportunities-says-theresa-may/

Britain should 'celebrate' Brexit opportunities, says Theresa May in Christmas message

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Britain should "celebrate" the opportunities created by Brexit, Theresa May suggests in her Christmas message today as she says that the UK must "forge a bold new role" for the UK outside the European Union.

The Prime Minister says that Britain must "seize the historic opportunity" presented by Brexit and "reunite" the nation to promote trade, prosperity and security on the World stage.

She also says that Britain should "proudly celebrate" the birth of Jesus Christ and his message of "forgiveness, love and hope" as she recalls her own childhood growing up in a vicarage.

 

 

 

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

 

MRS Bone Joke

 

 

 

:scared:

 

They all look so busy trying to solve problems

 

 

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4 minutes ago, XXL said:

There's something about her that I find incredibly irritating, patronising and insincere, then again most politicians are. And she was supposedly a remainer

Tell me about it, couldn't agree more :(

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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-economy-jobs-market-theresa-may-decade-disruption-a7499171.html

Brexit to fire starting gun on decade of economic disruption, says major report

It comes as the civil service union says Theresa May does not have courage to admit Brexit difficulties 

 

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Brexit will fire the starting gun on a “decade of disruption” with the UK being hit by a perfect storm of economic uncertainty, an ageing population and volatile jobs market, a major report has concluded.

The Institute For Public Policy Research (IPPR) think tank said the decision to leave the European Union had delivered a “profound shock” to Britain. It claimed this could see the country into lasting lower growth.

The Government’s ability to deal with the challenge was also called into question, when the head of the senior civil servants union said Theresa May lacked the courage to admit the severe Brexit difficulties she faces. 

 

But the left-of-centre IPPR’s report said that while the country is still reeling from the impact of Brexit, a rapidly ageing population would put unprecedented pressure on its ability to deliver services. 

Exceptional advances in technology may make a small number of people very wealthy, it said. But increasing automation was set to risk some 15 million jobs and inequality was also set to soar more generally. 

International factors such as diminishing US power, climate change and rocketing demand for dwindling natural resources would further exacerbate pressures at home, it added.

“By 2030, the effects of Brexit combined with a wave of economic, social and technological change will reshape the UK, in often quite radical ways," said the report's author, Mathew Lawrence.

“In the face of this, a politics of nostalgia, institutional conservatism and a rearguard defence of the institutions of 20th century social democracy will be inadequate.”

He added that Britain would be left “defending sand castles against the tide of history” unless it pursued a more progressive political and economic reform agenda. 

Painting a grim picture of the years ahead, the report argued that Brexit was likely to exacerbate longstanding economic weaknesses in the country, such as its low productivity rates. Along with significant new barriers to growth, it would mean future governments will rely on a weaker currency as the key to retaining competitiveness in the 2020s, it said

 

 

 

At the same time such an approach will increase consumer costs and hit living standards, the IPPR said. Overall, it argued that growth is expected to be lower, investment rates worse and the public finances weaker as a result of the decision to quit the EU. 

It came as Dave Penman, general secretary of the FDA, the civil servants union, said the Prime Minister’s inability to talk openly about the complexity of Brexit was putting huge strain on Whitehall. 

Mr Penman, who represents some 19,000 members, said: "It is pure politics that is defining the Brexit debate and forcing May to say this is not a big, difficult job, and it is all in hand.

"Ministers lack the political courage to admit how complex and time-consuming this will be."

As he argued for more resources for the civil services, he said: "When anyone pops their head above the parapet ... and says this is going to take a long time and it’s complex, they are immediately shot down and accused of betraying the will of the people.

 

"The politics around Brexit are the biggest risk to Brexit. The Government is clearly in a situation where they are trying to deny the complexity of it."

Other exacerbating factors would disrupt Britain’s future for years to come, including its ageing population, the report said.

The number of people aged 65 and over is predicted to rise by a third by the end of the next decade, imposing new strains on an already cash strapped system. The funding gap for adult social care is expected to hit £13bn by 2030-31, the report said.

Meanwhile, “exponential” improvements in new technologies in the workplace, such as artificial intelligence systems and machine learning, will radically change the way people work, putting two-thirds of current jobs – 15 million – at risk of automation, it claimed.

 

While the report said it would not end “work as we know it”, who benefits from the changes and who loses out would depend on politics, which was likely to become increasingly assertive after decades of a liberalising consensus.

While there was the potential to create an era of widespread abundance, the changes could also usher in a “second machine age” resulting in radical concentrations of economic power, it said.

It also predicted that work is likely to become more insecure and more freelance, while inequality is set to increase sharply with the wages of high-income households forecast to rise 11 times faster than for those on low pay.

All the changes will take place against an international backdrop of growing uncertainty, as the American hegemony which underpinned the post war international order fades and the global south rises in economic and geopolitical importance.

Mr Lawrence said: “Britain’s progressives should be ambitious, seeking to shape the direction of technological and social change. We must build a ‘high energy’ democracy that accelerates meaningful democratic experimentation at a national, city and local level, and also in the marketplace by increasing everyone’s say over corporate governance, ownership and power.”

 

 

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Brexit is becoming more and more of a mess. I feel like a lot of people who voted for it had no idea of the overall consequences it would have, especially with a Tory government who never thought it would actually happen.

The EU is also a huge mess so i can understand why many people wanted out. But you need to have a plan for the future or things will get worse economically. If the UK get out of the European single market all together, i can't imagine how bad things will be for a lot of struggling people.

Don't feel sorry for the jackasses who voted Brexit purely out of bigotry though, those people will ultimately get what they deserve. They will quickly realise that Brexit will NOT solve their most important problems and that immigrants are not the ones killing off their jobs. Crony capitalism and corrupt governments are the true culprits but they don't get it. It's just easier to just blame immigrants for everything.

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30 minutes ago, madonnasuperfan01 said:

Brexit is becoming more and more of a mess. I feel like a lot of people who voted for it had no idea of the overall consequences it would have, especially with a Tory government who never thought it would actually happen.

The EU is also a huge mess so i can understand why many people wanted out. But you need to have a plan for the future or things will get worse economically. If the UK get out of the European single market all together, i can't imagine how bad things will be for a lot of struggling people.

Don't feel sorry for the jackasses who voted Brexit purely out of bigotry though, those people will ultimately get what they deserve. They will quickly realise that Brexit will NOT solve their most important problems and that immigrants are not the ones killing off their jobs. Crony capitalism and corrupt governments are the true culprits but they don't get it. It's just easier to just blame immigrants for everything.

This. The UK will learn the hard way eventually. The sterling/pound which has always been the pride and joy of the country has been crumbling for quite some time now. And let's not forget how the sterling has always be a strong opponent to both the dollar and the Euro. Truly the English have fucked up! 

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21 hours ago, karbatal said:

I always had the feeling that things will be really good for the UK and meanwhile countries in the EU will get poorer.  :lmao:

Has the UK ever had bad luck or suffered for bad decisions? 

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So we basically go back full circle with this thread since Thatcher started the deindustralisation process of the country where the industrial revolution was born.

Which resulted in its transformation into what is now a 70% service based economy whose City of London cannot mantain its privileges outside of the EU context

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3 hours ago, XXL said:

Deindustrialisation of what was once the cradle of an Empire

Aside from turning a blind eye of course

That's some bad luck there

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:clap::clap: needs to be shown everywhere.

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4 hours ago, XXL said:

Deindustrialisation of what was once the cradle of an Empire

Aside from turning a blind eye of course

That's some bad luck there

article-2253929-16AA26BE000005DC-376_634

 

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Wow what a legacy and to think my grandmother always admired her... this would shock the hell out of her :lmao:

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On 30/12/2016 at 10:12 PM, MeakMaker said:

Wow what a legacy and to think my grandmother always admired her... this would shock the hell out of her :lmao:

 

:laugh: 

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The UK's ambassador to the EU, Sir Ivan Rogers, has resigned.

Sir Ivan, appointed to the job by David Cameron in 2013, had been expected to play a key role in Brexit talks expected to start within months. The government said Sir Ivan had quit early so a successor could be in place before negotiations start. Last month the BBC revealed he had privately told ministers a UK-EU trade deal might take 10 years to finalise, sparking criticism from some MPs.

 

 

 

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