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Michael Jackson: Surviving Neverland documentary - harrowing new details

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wow, this is really disturbing. I don't want to believe but there is enough prove to accept once and for all that he was a pig pedo. I do wonder if we can keep separating the man from the artist, to be honest anymore. This is going to take a big toll in Jackson's legacy. 

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Untill now it has always been a case of accusations and then hush hush with money, which led to believe that maybe those families were only after money in the very end. But now... 

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7 minutes ago, karbatal said:

wow, this is really disturbing. I don't want to believe but there is enough prove to accept once and for all that he was a pig pedo. I do wonder if we can keep separating the man from the artist, to be honest anymore. This is going to take a big toll in Jackson's legacy. 

I know. I extremely enjoy his early music and maybe that’s why I shy away from believing all of it. It’s all so confusing. It’s hard to accept he’s no better then R Kelly and other abusers. 

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13 minutes ago, Lolo said:

I know. I extremely enjoy his early music and maybe that’s why I shy away from believing all of it. It’s all so confusing. It’s hard to accept he’s no better then R Kelly and other abusers. 

The thing is that I loved so much both Cosby and Jackson. And this is like taking away something so dear to me, that I revisited so many times and that is of EXTREME quality. it is like discovering that Picasso or Goya were disgusting pedos! 

The same happens with Woody Allen, most films llike Take The Money and Run or Sleeper are so great, pieces of art! 

Ugh, really. 

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5 hours ago, windsor67 said:

I have always believed him to be guilty 

he paid off so many people 

he's really disgusting, and people who were excusing him on this very board

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king of popping little boys lololol

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Truly, Has any other celebrity ever continually had the fact that he had young boys have sleep overs IN HIS BED either ignored or excused ?   

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Yet again most of society chose to turn a blind eye. 

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3 hours ago, Kim said:

You see the very same thing on this thread and elsewhere. The cult of celebrity allowing this dirty paedo's behaviour to be normalized using the excuse that he had a bad childhood. It's extremely twisted. 

There is a crazy tendency by so many many people to straight away excuse MJ for everything.  His behaviour - dangling his baby son over a balcony,  paying a woman to have his children with him being the sperm donor (  does anyone think he slept with grown women ) than bringing them up in masks  while in public etc after paying her off (  both him and Debbie Rowe treated their children like possessions )  and the chestnut of having "fans" " ie young boys over to sleep with him in his bed - is more than disturbing.   I understand that people love his music and adore him,  but there really has never been any excuse for his behaviour yet somehow he is always the victim.  Also, the fact he talks like a grown man on tapes of him talking in private but chose to speak like a high pitched child in public is another form of manipulation.  Even his appearance in court to face the charges was pathetic.  Turning up in pajamas - just dreadful but he is now always pitied and excused. 

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1 hour ago, karbatal said:

The thing is that I loved so much both Cosby and Jackson. And this is like taking away something so dear to me, that I revisited so many times and that is of EXTREME quality. it is like discovering that Picasso or Goya were disgusting pedos! 

The same happens with Woody Allen, most films llike Take The Money and Run or Sleeper are so great, pieces of art! 

Ugh, really. 

Except , Allen has never been convicted of anything and only ever been accused of molestation by one person whose reliability is far from beyond reproach .

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4 hours ago, Supernatural said:

If an adult Male is showering your 12 year old with affection would you really have to think about it?

no if I haven´t heard anything about him. But once I have heard something, I would have had an eye on him all the time

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1 hour ago, karbatal said:

Untill now it has always been a case of accusations and then hush hush with money, which led to believe that maybe those families were only after money in the very end. But now... 

Correction.

And obviously the moment these families stop receiving $$$ from MJ after his death, they can't sleep at night.

And yes, I do believe MJ is a peado & gay, and these "victims" are not that innocent either.

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24 minutes ago, horn said:

Correction.

And obviously the moment these families stop receiving $$$ from MJ after his death, they can't sleep at night.

And yes, I do believe MJ is a peado & gay, and these "victims" are not that innocent either.

That's the thing. People start commenting on the victims and the money, the thing gets moody and bam, again it's only assumption.

About Woody Allen, again. HE MARRIED HIS OWN ADOPTED DAUGHTER, FOR GOT SAKES! And yet we are still "but it was not proven because the moon was in Aquarius". 

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28 minutes ago, horn said:

Correction.

And obviously the moment these families stop receiving $$$ from MJ after his death, they can't sleep at night.

And yes, I do believe MJ is a peado & gay, and these "victims" are not that innocent either.

Please do not put gay and pedo in the same sentence, they have nothing in common

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An old but still very relevant article:

Wade Robson & Why Many Molestation Victims Don't Tell

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After defending and praising Michael Jackson for over 20 years, in May 2013 Wade Robson dropped a bombshell and accused him of child molestation. This shocked most people - if not that there was yet another accuser, then that he had the courage to speak out. However, there are two questions that puzzle most people:
 

Why did he keep praising, even until recently, someone who he now claims molested him?

Why is he asking for money?

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The first question in particular is inexplicable for most people. However, to those of us who understand the dynamic between acquaintance molesters and their victims, it is perfectly natural for Mr Robson to behave like this. It's no surprise.


To most people, child sexual abuse is defined as being performed on an unwilling child by a stranger which is achieved by threats of violence or even actual violence - usually a stranger, a sick pervert, who physically overpowers the child and violently forces them into sexual activity. Some also realize that inter family child abuse exists. There is another little known alternative though, and that is child molestation where the victim is somewhat willing and the molester is in many ways "good".

 

Society seems to have a problem dealing with any sexual-victimization case in which the idea that child victims could simply behave like human beings and respond to the attention and affection of offenders by voluntarily and repeatedly returning to an offender's home is a troubling one, but it happens. Acquaintance molesters spend an inordinate amount of time and effort grooming and seducing their victims. They seem to have a knack knowing which children are vulnerable (or as Jackson's long time manager put it, Jackson knew which families were "wooable"). They spend an inordinate amount of time building trust - their target being to spend time alone with the child so that they can begin the seduction process.Children are human beings with needs, wants, and desires. Child molestation victims cannot be held to idealistic and superhuman standards of behavior. Their frequent cooperation in their victimization must be viewed as an understandable human characteristic that should have no criminal-justice significance.
 

Most people believe that children resist sexual advances by adults and are then overpowered by coercion, threats, weapons, or physical force. Although cases with these elements certainly exist, that is not what usually happens in acquaintance molestation cases.
 

Jackson, I would posit, fit into a narrow subcategory of acquaintance molester, and that is as a boylover. Boylovers are very caring about their boys - they take a lot of time to seduce them, and come to care deeply for their victims. This is not to say that they view their "friends" as victims, rather they view the molestation as an "expression of love". Misguided love to be sure, and totally unacceptable as children, by definition, cannot give consent; however this is how they feel and once you understand that you understand how their victims feel.
 

Boylover victims feel beholden to their abusers, the same abuser which has done so much "good" for them. In Wade Robson's case, Jackson provided mentorship with his dancing as well as several career opportunities. His connection to Jackson would have helped his career enormously and he must have undoubtedly felt gratitude to Jackson. It is against this background that we have to understand why Wade has praised Jackson for all these years.


Child-lover molesters almost never use violence for sex. Instead, they groom and seduce and manipulate and use cooperation to get what they want out of the child. "I can't tell you how many cases where there are letters from the victim written to the accused, saying, 'You're the nicest person I ever met,' or 'You've been so good to me,'" Many victims don't tell anyone of the inappropriate behavior because they are considered "compliant child victims." A child can't legally consent to having sex, but some of them aren't necessarily fighting him off. They're developmentally immature, and later they feel ashamed and embarrassed that they cooperated in their victimization.[2]

Because victims of acquaintance exploitation usually have been carefully seduced and often do not realize they are victims, they repeatedly and voluntarily return to the offender. Society and the criminal-justice system have a difficult time understanding this. If a boy is molested by his neighbor, teacher, or clergy member, why does he "allow" it to continue? Most likely he may not initially realize he is a victim. Some victims are simply willing to trade sex for attention, affection, and gifts and do not believe they are victims. The sex itself might even be enjoyable. The offender may be treating them better than anyone has ever treated them.[2]

Most of these victims never disclose their victimization. Younger children may believe they did something "wrong" or "bad" and are afraid of getting into trouble. Older children may be more ashamed and embarrassed. Many victims not only do not disclose, but they strongly deny it happened when confronted. In one case several boys took the stand and testified concerning the high moral character of the accused molester. When the accused molester changed his plea to guilty, he admitted that the boys who testified for him were also victims.[3]

The most common reasons that victims do not disclose are stigma of homosexuality, lack of societal understanding, presence of positive feelings for the offender, embarrassment or fear over their victimization, or do not believe they are victims. Since most of the offenders are male, the stigma of homosexuality is a serious problem for male victims. Although being seduced by a male child molester does not necessarily make a boy a homosexual, the victims do not understand this. If a victim does disclose, he believes that he is risking significant ridicule by his peers and lack of acceptance by his family.[3] 

(Excerpts from Child Molesters: A Behavioral Analysis)


Jackson would have made Wade believe that the molestation was perfectly natural and an expression of love, and warned Wade that telling would have dire consequences for both of them - not because it was "wrong", but because "people wouldn't understand". This is typical of the methods boylovers use to keep victims compliant, and is probably what Wade referred to when he spoke of "brainwashing".


Wade Robson truly loved and admired Jackson - he probably still does - however he would have known something was wrong when his son was born three years ago. Once Wade realized something was inherently wrong with their relationship, it would have taken him a long time to process his feelings. He would have felt totally torn between speaking the truth and betraying his idol and mentor. As any acquaintance molester victim will tell you, it would have been mental torture.
 

Even when Wade Robson did come out with his claims, he couldn't completely damn Jackson. He still felt compassion for Jackson even though Jackson is dead. Wade would still be conscious of all Jackson did to help him in spite of the bad stuff. This can't be emphasized enough.
 

Why is he asking for money?
 

This question has no definite answer and we can only speculate. As yet, no dollar amount has been suggested, but we do know that Wade is making two separate civil claims - one against the estate of Michael Jackson, the other against companies which were instrumental in bringing him to the US to be with Jackson. Whether he wins these claims or not, he will get his story out.
 

This may be his strategy - have his claims proven in a court of law to remove any doubt whatsoever over his claims. This would be a coup as it has never been proven in court what many people feel to be true - that Jackson wasn't just a boylover/pedophile, but a molester as well.
 

The other possibility is that Wade Robson simply wants compensation for the abuse suffered at the hand of Jackson, and to financially punish those who turned a blind eye to Jackson's pecadilloes simply because he was making them money.
 

It would seem highly unlikely that Wade would by lying for cash - nobody would put themselves through the bitter vilification and threats from Jackson fans for any amount of money.
 

On that point, it is sad to see vicious attacks from Jackson fans - why on earth are they sticking up for a pop star who didn't mind being called a pedophile (after all, if he minded he would have stopped sleeping with boys after the first accusations), who was never much interested in defending himself over the years? Let's not forget, Jackson never co-operated with law enforcement officials, even during initial enquiries over his relationships with boys.
 

Why are some commentators calling Wade Robson a liar?
 

Michael Jackson Apologism is an industry. There are people out there making money, or stroking their egos  attempting to vindicate Michael Jackson. They are writing books, articles and blog posts which pander to the fans and repeat all the intellectually unsound conclusions (child erotica = art books anyone?) made about Jackson. They are really worried now - someone who was actually there may finally prove what many have known for a long time - that Jackson not only had an unhealthy interest in boys, wasn't just sexually attracted to them, he acted on his impulses too.
 

These commentators have a lot at stake - the main thing being loss of face. They are merely pseudo intellectuals who have made up excuses for Jackson's behaviour with boys for years, have a huge following and now they feel threatened. Without listening to one word that Wade Robson has spoken they branded him a liar, an opportunist and a traitor. Wade Robson has the potential to put egg on their faces so rather than listen to his full story, they prefer to support a dead multimillion dollar pop star instead of a living possible abuse victim. This is crazy! They say that Wade Robson "isn't acting like a proper victim" (here's a hint - read this and get a clue: Child Molesters: A Behavioral Analysis). What has society come to when we turn away people that are hurt in favor of a man who shared his bed with young boys? Hopefully they will come to their senses and stop making excuses for a fatally flawed man.

Source

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31 minutes ago, karbatal said:

That's the thing. People start commenting on the victims and the money, the thing gets moody and bam, again it's only assumption.

About Woody Allen, again. HE MARRIED HIS OWN ADOPTED DAUGHTER, FOR GOT SAKES! And yet we are still "but it was not proven because the moon was in Aquarius". 

@karbatal Soon Yi was never his adopted daughter though , and she was already of age when their relationship turned romantic . He doesn't belong in the company of these "gentlemen"

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1 hour ago, horn said:

Correction.

And obviously the moment these families stop receiving $$$ from MJ after his death, they can't sleep at night.

And yes, I do believe MJ is a peado & gay, and these "victims" are not that innocent either.

Well the families that were going to be OK with this were not right to begin with, these are the people MJ surrounded himself with to have access to the children he liked. 

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18 minutes ago, V.K said:

@karbatal Soon Yi was never his adopted daughter though , and she was already of age when their relationship turned romantic . He doesn't belong in the company of these "gentlemen"

I am not accusing Allen. I am saying that we always come up with technicalities when we want to. Sometimes we may be right, other times, not. 

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9 minutes ago, Supernatural said:

Well the families that were going to be OK with this were not right to begin with, these are the people MJ surrounded himself with to have access to the children he liked. 

Read the text posted by Jesus. It explains why sometimes things are seen in a different perspective. 

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11 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Read the text posted by Jesus. It explains why sometimes things are seen in a different perspective. 

It is a well known fact that many child molesters work in plain sight.  People get caught up in the incorrect assumption that they are either violent strangers or aggressive people in power.  So many victims talk of how they were told it was their special love or secret that others would not understand.  Children are made to feel that it is normal and a sign of love.  Social workers have talked of this for years.   Why so many beloved priests, family friends, mentors etc have been exposed later when multiple victims talk about it.  Read accounts from royal commissions etc in child sexual abuse and the way children are manipulated to feel guilt, feel part of it and even defend their abusers.  It is sickening and all too common.   

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1 hour ago, Jazzy Jan said:

There is a crazy tendency by so many many people to straight away excuse MJ for everything.  His behaviour - dangling his baby son over a balcony,  paying a woman to have his children with him being the sperm donor (  does anyone think he slept with grown women ) than bringing them up in masks  while in public etc after paying her off (  both him and Debbie Rowe treated their children like possessions )  and the chestnut of having "fans" " ie young boys over to sleep with him in his bed - is more than disturbing.   I understand that people love his music and adore him,  but there really has never been any excuse for his behaviour yet somehow he is always the victim.  Also, the fact he talks like a grown man on tapes of him talking in private but chose to speak like a high pitched child in public is another form of manipulation.  Even his appearance in court to face the charges was pathetic.  Turning up in pajamas - just dreadful but he is now always pitied and excused. 

Were he not a famous pop star, his mental illness would have gotten him locked up in the loony bin.

32 minutes ago, Supernatural said:

Well the families that were going to be OK with this were not right to begin with, these are the people MJ surrounded himself with to have access to the children he liked. 

Yes. I don't buy all this "why did the parents let it happen" stuff. He targeted kids who had irresponsible parents to start with. 

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Thanks for the article @Je5u5 Very eye opening indeed. 

I can totally see that acquaintance molester was his pattern or something the like. Oh my, what a disgrace. 

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8 minutes ago, Kim said:

Were he not a famous pop star, his mental illness would have gotten him locked up in the loony bin.

Yes. I don't buy all this "why did the parents let it happen" stuff. He targeted kids who had irresponsible parents to start with. 

Yes.  The whole scenario with him is similar to Bill Cosby and his victims - although they were adults.  So many of them and so many were from similar circumstances.  They would not be credible or believed.  It is just a sick game to these people and the pattern is very obvious in reality. 

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Mj is disgusting. He always said  he  was  innocent and used to be victimized but actually  the other  way  around. What a psycho  who believed he  was norm and innocent while cheating everyone and victimizing juveniles and pretending to do it for kids.

He is such a shame to  pop  music..i cant listen to his songs anymore because i  feel  like  vomiting.

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32 minutes ago, veroelectronica said:

Mj is disgusting. He always said  he  was  innocent and used to be victimized but actually  the other  way  around. What a psycho  who believed he  was norm and innocent while cheating everyone and victimizing juveniles and pretending to do it for kids.

He is such a shame to  pop  music..i cant listen to his songs anymore because i  feel  like  vomiting.

I second that

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And I should add, he was so overrated as a performer, a tacky man in white socks with a glove, a caricature, I never understood the appeal. Mass hysteria from he 80’s. A one trick pony. I can’t believe Madonna supported him , I felt uncomfortable during the two sticky tours dates I went to when that tribute came on 

give me Diana Ross anytime she is talented and a star

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2 minutes ago, windsor67 said:

And I should add, he was so overrated as a performer, a tacky man in white socks with a glove, a caricature, I never understood the appeal. Mass hysteria from he 80’s. A one trick pony. I can’t believe Madonna supported him , I felt uncomfortable during the two sticky tours dates I went to when that tribute came on 

give me Diana Ross anytime she is talented and a star

I second that.

I never understood his appeal  either. Also he was a copycat drag queen who  wanted to  look  like diana. He reportedly pasted her face figure for  his plastic surgery then. And she  was not  happy with it after hearing the rumor.

Of course she  was  his  idol for  sure.

 

He has done the  same moves to  death for hundreds years on  heavy lip syncing since 90s. Nothing new. and his evolution stopped  and died  away since 80s.

 

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