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Michael Jackson: Paedophile

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When he was the in bed with child, he was asexual. But when he watched porno on tv and in books, he was not. :rotfl:

damn, some people, :rotfl:

You can defend the indefensible as much as you but in the end it will always be WRONG.

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9 hours ago, Nonoka said:

@Kurt420 Very well worded! 

I really appreciate your posts normally, but repeating the same sentence over and over again isn't going to hide the fact that you're clearly clueless about the details of this case.

Repeating the same apologetic sentence over and over again isn't going to hide the fact that you're clearly denying about the truth of this case. 

MJ is still a fucking peadophile and that's something you will never be able to change my opinion (and others who think the same) no matter how many essay you'd posted in this thread.

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9 hours ago, Nonoka said:

You wanna know what's disgusting? That you keep on spamming this thread with tabloid report after tabloid report, not checking their veracity even on the most superficial level, but at the same time lashing out at others calling them "paedo-apologists" for providing fact-based arguments. This video has been on YouTube since over 10 years ffs, go watch it, there are entirely different things going on compared to what the report alleges.

Pot pans kettle.

People who's trying to convince others that wacko is a victim is way more disgusting and pathetic.

Wacko Jacko is a fucking peadophile and that will never change.... no matter how many times you try to dismiss anyone in the thread (didn't you realize you're the most apologetic member in this thread?) who thinks wacko is a peadophile. 

 

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4 hours ago, runa said:

When he was the in bed with child, he was asexual. But when he watched porno on tv and in books, he was not. :rotfl:

damn, some people, :rotfl:

You can defend the indefensible as much as you but in the end it will always be WRONG.

Ikr :rotfl:

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@horn

You are ridiculous. You do not seem to understand the basic difference between defending the act of child abuse and questioning the allegations of child abuse. Maybe look up the words in the dictionary if understanding the difference is too challenging.

While you are screaming "pedophile" 7 times in your posts and directing insults against me, others in this thread have researched hard, concrete material that counteract those exact allegations. What have you researched to back your claims?

But of course, what does evidence matter since as you said yourself, to you he will always be a pedophile.

So who is dismissing the truth of this case here?

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9 hours ago, runa said:

When he was the in bed with child, he was asexual. But when he watched porno on tv and in books, he was not. :rotfl:

damn, some people, :rotfl:

You can defend the indefensible as much as you but in the end it will always be WRONG.

No one in this thread said he was asexual, except one post on the last page I do not agree with it at all.

But omg, yes now that we found one weak argument some fans have put forward in the past, let's dismiss all the other arguments again and forget about all the evidence the investigation brought up, because it's iNdeFenSible!!11!!

Oh the horror.

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1 minute ago, Nonoka said:

No one in this thread said he was asexual, except one post on the last page I do not agree with it at all.

But omg, yes now that we found one weak argument some fans have put forward in the past, let's dismiss all the other arguments again and forget about all the evidence the investigation brought up, because it's iNdeFenSible!!11!!

Oh the horror.

I have a lot of respect for you @Nonoka, always love your input on this forum, love your passion for M and can understand your passion for MJ.

Having said that, we will have to disagree on the matter. I'll stay out of this thread from now on, because no matter what could be said no one will change its mind. This is a very hot subject, nothing is black or white (no pun intended) and I guess we'll never know the thruth.

xxx

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It's been said a few times in this thread now, and as a member of 'the media' I object to the notion
that the reporting on the alledged acts of sexual abuse with minors is somehow a salacious
attempt at character assassination of a pop star, on behalf of the media.

In fact, he has gotten away with a lot more than most,
just because he was rich and famous and now DEAD.

This story is way beyond The National Enquirer or some other disgusting rag usually filled
with half truths and lies. Reputable titles such The Guardian, The independent and The Times have
written about this subject, people have been interviewed and investigative reports have been scrutinized.
This is way beyond rumours and hearsay as well as the fan fiction spun by his admirers on message boards.

Multiple people have come forward. And the disdain expressed towards potential past victims of child abuse
in this thread is nothing short of disgusting and shameful. And the stupidity of not wanting to understand the
complexity of the psychology of male sex abuse victims is just baffling. The impact on such complex issues such as
identity, masculinity, and the male sexuality as it's perceived in patriarchal society...well, yes it causes people
to do and say all kinds of things.

Ultimately, you can't just moonwalk your way around this, because you feel like you 'grew up' with this person and his music.

Check yourself.

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Michael Jackson is a peadophile.

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18 hours ago, Nonoka said:

You can't be serious :rotfl:He was "probably" doing this??? Where do you guys keep getting this information from? Are we just making things up at this point because it plays into the whole "He's a pedophile" stick or are there, you know, actual credible sources for this? Oh wait, I already know the answer.

Then keep telling yourself he was "probably" not guilty and a healthy adult with a healthy sexuality.

Tee-hee!

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20 minutes ago, Alain Delon said:

Then keep telling yourself he was "probably" not guilty and a healthy adult with a healthy sexuality.

Tee-hee!

Boo, I don't need to 'tell myself' anything, I have done the research and have based my conclusion on actual facts and evidence. The same thing a few other people did here as well. Deal with it :newspaper:

@runa :thumbsup: You are a great poster, and I appreciate your posts too. This will obviously not change, even though we might disagree on this particular topic. As you said yourself, we're both passionate M fans and that's what counts.

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1 hour ago, windsor67 said:

 

the video is so disturbing ,shows a person who really thinks he is above law .The way he disrespects the process is infuriating

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and does he even realizes the seriousness of the allegations? Clearly not

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13 hours ago, acko said:

It's been said a few times in this thread now, and as a member of 'the media' I object to the notion
that the reporting on the alledged acts of sexual abuse with minors is somehow a salacious
attempt at character assassination of a pop star, on behalf of the media.

Why are you twisting the words of others? Obviously, no one criticized the fact that media reported about the allegations, but the way they reported about it. Huge difference. I'm confident you do a great job as journalist, but many didn't. Why is that many reports already declared him guilty in '03 before there was any evidence for / against his crimes? Of course it wasn't 'character assassination' and many fans exaggerate with their 'evil media' shtick, but would you call that balanced and fair reporting? I think not.

13 hours ago, acko said:

This story is way beyond The National Enquirer or some other disgusting rag usually filled
with half truths and lies. Reputable titles such The Guardian, The independent and The Times have
written about this subject, people have been interviewed and investigative reports have been scrutinized.
This is way beyond rumours and hearsay as well as the fan fiction spun by his admirers on message boards.

I think everyone is well aware this is much more than 'rumours and hearsay'. Why do you think some people have looked into this case so deeply?

'People have been interviewed'. And? Which people did they interview and what did they say? And if those people revealed compromising stuff, why weren't they part of the hundreds of people they questioned during the investigation? These questions need to be asked considering the investigation left no stone unturned and still failed to come up with something. If those newspapers found out stuff that isn't in the 300 page long FBI report or the hundreds of court documents, I am more than willing to read about this and consider their points. But you need to give the receipts.

13 hours ago, acko said:

Multiple people have come forward. And the disdain expressed towards potential past victims of child abuse
in this thread is nothing short of disgusting and shameful. And the stupidity of not wanting to understand the
complexity of the psychology of male sex abuse victims is just baffling. The impact on such complex issues such as
identity, masculinity, and the male sexuality as it's perceived in patriarchal society...well, yes it causes people
to do and say all kinds of things.

Ultimately, you can't just moonwalk your way around this, because you feel like you 'grew up' with this person and his music.

Once again, I along with others in this thread have stated multiple times that people making such claims shouldn't be dismissed right away just because there are inaccuries or contradicting statements in the past.

Having said that, nobody is obliged to believe those persons. Nobody is obliged to take their claims at face value. Especially not when the accused has already been thoroughly investigated twice and there's a stockpile of material that tells another story. Especially not when other accusers in the past have been proven to be lying for money. Especially not when there's a famous, wealthy person involved which opens up a lot of other possibilites why people could be making those claims.

Power and fame can be an incentive to do otherwise unacceptable things, but it can also absolutely be an incentive for others to make false claims, considering all the money they can extort from that person (even / esp. in his death) and the profit they can make from these allegations. This is why the history of accusers needs to be checked and shouldn‘t be brushed away.

Case in point: if the accuser only changes his 20 year long "nothing happened" story right after being in financial ruin and having been refused a 150,000$ dancing role, and then suing the Estate for 1,5 billion (!) dollars, in which direction does that point to?

And since some people seem to be so fixated on media reports, I'm just going to leave this article here by Forbes Magazine that points out exactly the same thing:


https://www.forbes.com/sites/joevogel/2019/01/29/what-you-should-know-about-the-new-michael-jackson-documentary/#30f3667a640f

I guess Forbes is now dwelling in fan fiction / dismissing child abuse as well?

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2 hours ago, sotos8 said:

the video is so disturbing ,shows a person who really thinks he is above law .The way he disrespects the process is infuriating

Totally agree, he is frightening, the boogeyman, such arrogance

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Guilty!

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10 hours ago, acko said:

It's been said a few times in this thread now, and as a member of 'the media' I object to the notion
that the reporting on the alledged acts of sexual abuse with minors is somehow a salacious
attempt at character assassination of a pop star, on behalf of the media.

In fact, he has gotten away with a lot more than most,
just because he was rich and famous and now DEAD.

This story is way beyond The National Enquirer or some other disgusting rag usually filled
with half truths and lies. Reputable titles such The Guardian, The independent and The Times have
written about this subject, people have been interviewed and investigative reports have been scrutinized.
This is way beyond rumours and hearsay as well as the fan fiction spun by his admirers on message boards.

Multiple people have come forward. And the disdain expressed towards potential past victims of child abuse
in this thread is nothing short of disgusting and shameful. And the stupidity of not wanting to understand the
complexity of the psychology of male sex abuse victims is just baffling. The impact on such complex issues such as
identity, masculinity, and the male sexuality as it's perceived in patriarchal society...well, yes it causes people
to do and say all kinds of things.

Ultimately, you can't just moonwalk your way around this, because you feel like you 'grew up' with this person and his music.

Check yourself.

I spoke with a friend yesterday who is a huge MJ fan.   He grew up with him being his first idol and also loves Madonna and Prince.  MJ is the one he loves the most though.  Said that Off the Wall is still his favourite album of all time.  We discussed the MJ case and he told me straight out that he thought he could never see this documentary because he could not stand the thought of MJ sexually abusing children because he thought it was a kind of betrayal of his childhood.  Said he wanted to be an ostrich with his head in the sand and felt awful and wrong thinking like that.  Also could not explain why he had young boys over for sleep overs and just basically said it was hard for him to talk about.  Was a very sad kind of conversation because I could completely see he was conflicted.   I don't think anyone wants to see their idol in a bad light and sexual abuse of children is the worst thing possible to entertain the thought of. 

 Reminds me a lot of another guy I worked with who idolized Lance Armstrong.  He used to tell me time and time again how inspiring Lance was as both he and his father had been through cancer, how people were trying to destroy Lance and there was never any proper evidence of him being a drug cheat.  Always argued his innocence with everyone and said that others were jealous and lying.  When it finally was confirmed that Armstrong was a drug cheat after years of denial and years of his fans defending him,  I actually felt sorry for him.  He was devastated beyond belief.   

I still find it difficult to see the appeal of MJ as a person - not talking of the appeal of him as an entertainer.  I watched the video clip above of his police interview and he was creepy, arrogant, stupid and dismissive.    The fact too that he was always either playing a victim or wanting everyone to worship him like a God.  His strange behaviour with having children without wanting the mothers to be around is also quite sickening. 

I was thinking of how I would react if Madonna appeared like that in a police interview.  I would be horrified and so disappointed.   I don't know how fans of MJ could watch that video, watch the Martin Bashir doco and still defend him as a person. 

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10 hours ago, windsor67 said:

 

The face of disgusting psychotic paedophile.

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18 hours ago, Nonoka said:

No one in this thread said he was asexual, except one post on the last page I do not agree with it at all.

But omg, yes now that we found one weak argument some fans have put forward in the past, let's dismiss all the other arguments again and forget about all the evidence the investigation brought up, because it's iNdeFenSible!!11!!

Oh the horror.

Your posts in this thread have been most informative, balanced and unlike myself at times....CALM....lol. Thank you! ❤️

Yeah, never really thought he was asexual and I don't think that's really relevant here anyways. I don't think anyone in here is condoning his bad judgement and naivete' in having children sleep with him in his bed/room. Asexual or not, it still wouldn't be appropriate. Still doesn't automatically make him a sexual offender though. 

18 hours ago, acko said:

It's been said a few times in this thread now, and as a member of 'the media' I object to the notion
that the reporting on the alledged acts of sexual abuse with minors is somehow a salacious
attempt at character assassination of a pop star, on behalf of the media.

In fact, he has gotten away with a lot more than most,
just because he was rich and famous and now DEAD.

This story is way beyond The National Enquirer or some other disgusting rag usually filled
with half truths and lies. Reputable titles such The Guardian, The independent and The Times have
written about this subject, people have been interviewed and investigative reports have been scrutinized.
This is way beyond rumours and hearsay as well as the fan fiction spun by his admirers on message boards.

Multiple people have come forward. And the disdain expressed towards potential past victims of child abuse
in this thread is nothing short of disgusting and shameful. And the stupidity of not wanting to understand the
complexity of the psychology of male sex abuse victims is just baffling. The impact on such complex issues such as
identity, masculinity, and the male sexuality as it's perceived in patriarchal society...well, yes it causes people
to do and say all kinds of things.

Ultimately, you can't just moonwalk your way around this, because you feel like you 'grew up' with this person and his music.

Check yourself.

No disrespect to you or anyone else that does their job well and with integrity but reputable news outlets lying isn't an uncommon thing. That's partly to blame for how divisive everything is in the US right now. If you look at the '05 trial, a big issue was that the media (legit media not tabloid rags) would create it's own narrative devoid of facts. That's not "fan fiction" you can easily look at old reports on YouTube then compare it to the court transcripts. Often times, they did not match. I'm not saying it was some massive conspiracy to tear down a pop star, in fact I think it was just "business as usual" for them. The more salacious the story and the bigger the star, the more views/clicks they'll get. 

The issue isn't that the most recent accusers have been inconsistent with their stories, I totally understand why that can be. I get that they could've been protecting him or were just scared to go up against someone rich and powerful, among about a million other reasons. The issue I have is that after two extremely thorough criminal investigations, 10 years of FBI surveillance and a long criminal trial they could find absolutely nothing else to back up claims or even suggest that the man is a pedophile. I don't think MJ's fingerprints on the kids' bodies is necessary to find him guilty, rarely is there even going to be direct evidence in these cases but you gotta have SOMETHING to convict someone and throw them in jail. 

Do we REALLY think it's ok to throw someone in jail based on NOTHING but inconsistent accusations? That's absolutely outrageous, dangerous and archaic. Reminds me of back in the day when totally innocent black men would be hung because a white woman accused them of rape, only to find out later that it was all lies. I know the justice system is imperfect but do we REALLY want to go back to that? Should we just do away with due process and simply point at who we *feel* is guilty based on a gut reaction? Criminal investigations/trials be damned..... *I* think he's guilty cuz well....I always thought he was weird and never liked him much anyways (in fact the whole family is wacky) and he *seems* like he probably *may* definitely be a pedophile so even though there's no evidence that could stand up in court and accusers and their families have been proven liars at worst and inconsistent at best, LOCK HIM UP anyways! 

 

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46 minutes ago, Kurt420 said:

I don't think MJ's fingerprints on the kids' bodies is necessary to find him guilty, rarely is there even going to be direct evidence in these cases but you gotta have SOMETHING to convict someone and throw them in jail. 

You would think, but look at so many other cases, like serious criminal clans or drug cartels and whatnot... why is it so hard to actually arrest and trial and put these people to jail! We have an infamous and extremely criminal Arabic clan scene here in Berlin and the heads of these clans are semi celebrities because of that, yet the ‘capo’ had to be released from custody just yesterday - AGAIN! It’s infuriating. 

I know this is not exactly the same, but you can’t always put people away so easily , even if everybody knows they are criminal offenders. Proving a case is extremely hard and with known and celebrity offenders it’s also rare. Just because you can’t prove it, doesn’t mean they’re not fishy. 

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Since some people seem to be hang up on this video, a little research (or close reading of the article) would have brought out that this interrogation was for a completely unrelated lawsuit of wrongful dismissal of staff, not for the sexual abuse allegations. In this case, this is something the timestamp of the video already gives away, since the sexual abuse case was closed in early '94 and this is two years later.

It was not a police interview of any kind and the attorney was not supposed to quiz him on the allegations again. Just as a little factual context as to why he might look annoyed / dismissive / tired etc.

But I guess that would disqualify the argument of "Omg he's disrespecting the case", so let's quickly bury this fact again. No?

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@Nonoka thank you for your input and patience. Though I don’t share your point of view for the large part, it’s still interesting to read the information you add. 

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He is  king  of  peado. King of kinky. His  king  status got  shattered with his  shame.  Im  so  ashamed  of  having  seen  and listened  to  the  peado sicko. 

His  victims will  live  in  the shadow  of  shame and horror. Thats  the  legacy  inherited.

He is the  shame  of  music and  america.

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The documentary will show on HBO on the 3rd of March 

 

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Omg these LONG TESTAMENTS! 

This has a much shorter way. Question to those defending Jackson. IF HE WERE ALIVE WOULD YOU LET YOUR CHILDREN OR NEPHEWS STAY WITH HIM IN NEVERLAND AND PLAY IN THOSE SECRET CHAMBERS FOR MONTHS? 

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2 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Omg these LONG TESTAMENTS! 

This has a much shorter way. Question to those defending Jackson. IF HE WERE ALIVE WOULD YOU LET YOUR CHILDREN OR NEPHEWS STAY WITH HIM IN NEVERLAND AND PLAY IN THOSE SECRET CHAMBERS FOR MONTHS? 

NO.But if he was my friend and I would have trust him (or not! ).but to live ny nephew there just because is fun to be with ,michael...no

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