Spain...destroying themselves from the inside

[promise to try]

Just now, karbatal said:

If there's ever a referendum,  there has to be a divorce and I would demand something like Brexit: if you want to go,  you pay back dozens of billions as a concept of investment made.

 

that sounds fair to me. So, what I want is a law to make the divorce legal.

[promise to try]

Just now, karbatal said:

 

All investment efforts have gone there for decades. And now people there want to go with all the profits thinking they are richer because they're better,  which is not the case. 

 

it seems to be the feeling in catalonia, or at least it´s what the journalists say all the time. I haven´t heard a single catalan saying that, but that doesn´t mean it´s not true.

In our case, we know that we need spain/france.but the feeling is that we need them, not that we are in this together.

[karbatal]

15 minutes ago, promise to try said:

no!!!! but it´s true that the idea of people in andalucia being lazy and being paid just to do nothing it´s quite common. BUt it´s not spain, is andalucia

And even that is a cliché.  A lie repeated by people who feel superior God knows why...

[karbatal]

12 minutes ago, promise to try said:

it seems to be the feeling in catalonia, or at least it´s what the journalists say all the time. I haven´t heard a single catalan saying that, but that doesn´t mean it´s not true.

In our case, we know that we need spain/france.but the feeling is that we need them, not that we are in this together.

Please,  the phrase "Espanya ens roba" (Spain robs us)  was coined like 25 years ago by Pujol.  While in fact it was him who was corrupted and has millions illegally in Andorra.  

They feel as if they're robbed,  while in fact they fart and the Spanish Government goes to clap because Catalán parties were crucial to approve the Spanish budget since 1996. 

[karbatal]

Oh I misunderstood your message and my last one has nothing to do with what you said

Sorry 

[promise to try]

Just now, karbatal said:

Oh I misunderstood your message and my last one has nothing to do with what you said

Sorry 

[karbatal]

OMG @promise to try, I have just read about Tabarnia, I thought at first it was a joke made for the 28th December (Spanish April's Fools) but it's true  

Tabarnia would be the area of Barcelona and Tarragona, fighting  to be part of Spain. They have created the term Tabarnia and claim that the rest of Catalonia robs them and that they are robbing their history too and that they want to be in Spain. 

Last elections, pro-Spain win with a big majority in the city of Barcelona and the big cities surrounding it, and the area of Tarragona too.

They have made a platform at Change.org with 200.000 people already signed, they are preparing demonstrations and their ultimate aim is to tell exactly the same arguments of the independentists, but from their point of view. hahahahahha

 

 

[elijah]

38 minutes ago, karbatal said:

OMG @promise to try, I have just read about Tabarnia, I thought at first it was a joke made for the 28th December (Spanish April's Fools) but it's true  

Tabarnia would be the area of Barcelona and Tarragona, fighting  to be part of Spain. They have created the term Tabarnia and claim that the rest of Catalonia robs them and that they are robbing their history too and that they want to be in Spain. 

Last elections, pro-Spain win with a big majority in the city of Barcelona and the big cities surrounding it, and the area of Tarragona too.

They have made a platform at Change.org with 200.000 people already signed, they are preparing demonstrations and their ultimate aim is to tell exactly the same arguments of the independentists, but from their point of view. hahahahahha

 

 

Love this :). It would be glorious to see another region being born out of the region of Catalonia. When the pearls of Catalonia - Barcelona and Tarragona and the other Mediteranian cities depart to form another region that is happy to stay together with the other Spaniards, it would be great to see if the remaining part would continue to seek independence. My suspicion is it won't, cause the richest places would ve chosen Spain :)

[karbatal]

Their main reason to segregate from Catalonia is that the city of Barcelona produces a lot of money that is going to rural areas and that has to stop

It's very very viral in Spain because they mock all arguments by independentists

 

[spotlight]

14 hours ago, promise to try said:

do you think this happened as a natural way, or were the financial/political powers in favour of a united canada behind it?

Really Good question. I suspect that the Canadian gov’t may have had a hand in it but I do think that private investesyors were fearing what would happen in a new sovereignist Québec. 

[promise to try]

everytime there has been something to mock about against the pro referendum people, it has exploded in the against people´s faces...anyways,even if that new region is created, the problem would be the same, because I bet there are a lot of people in favour of a referendum even in that place were the most voted political party is against.So, we have the same problem, divided society.

something that surprises me a lot, in a positive way, about the catalonian people is that nobody is saying that these people are not real people from catalonia. I mean, for me it´s cristal clear that they are, even  when they are sons/gransons of emigrants. The place were the political party that is against the referendum won, is the place with more emigration (I don´t remember how do they call them).in the basque country I know that would have been a problem.Even the fact that they have voted as a preseindet  to a woman that has been in catalonia only for 5 years, here she would be taken as a foreigner even by the people that are against the referendum.So, good for them, for the catalonians, in this particular thing.

[promise to try]

Just now, spotlight said:

Really Good question. I suspect that the Canadian gov’t may have had a hand in it but I do think that private investesyors were fearing what would happen in a new sovereignist Québec. 

in spain it seems that they worked together.which, is not a defining thing to me. I mean, we know that capital has not homeland, and they may leave for some years, but where there is a posible market/cheap workers, there goes the capital, to try to profit from any disgrace or weakness they smell

[spotlight]

1 minute ago, promise to try said:

in spain it seems that they worked together.which, is not a defining thing to me. I mean, we know that capital has not homeland, and they may leave for some years, but where there is a posible market/cheap workers, there goes the capital, to try to profit from any disgrace or weakness they smell

This is true.

[spotlight]

@promise to tryI’m sure if the yes side had won the 95 referendum in Québec that Québec would no different to the way it is today financially and socially. It’s just the first few years thta may have been difficult for us. 

[promise to try]

I´m reading the book "conspiraciones" by Jesus Cintora, he explains why the left political parties didn´t govern in the last couple of years, and, well, everything is so sad , and so against the politicians helping the regular people. they are more interested in their wars for power.If half of what the book says it´s true, this is sad.And I wouldn´t tell you that you are wrong if PP´s government has done everything so wrong since october, in order to make all its problems disappear

 

by the way, yesterday I watched a part of the Cabalgata the reyes  (three wise men´s parade)in madrid.Not the one with the drag queens, but the official one from the city hall, the one that respects catholic religion, you know! with star wars´characters, peppa pig, a chorus singing Imagine!!! (no hell below us, above us only sky, no religions...)this country is nuts! but I have to say that two of the wise men were extremelly hot!!!!

[elijah]

When is Tabarnia seceding from Catalonia??? Now thats a secession I d like to back :). I ve read that Tabarnia flags are much more preferred in Bcn.

[promise to try]

Just now, elijah said:

When is Tabarnia seceding from Catalonia??? Now thats a secession I d like to back :). I ve read that Tabarnia flags are much more preferred in Bcn.

Apparently the Tabarnia maps are false too, and that region would be a group of separate cities...but it´s not happening, although I bet you can find maps on ebay

 

[promise to try]

people that are now going in favour of this (very few, by the way) don´t realise that without this part in catalonia, the pro independence vote would be huge!!!!

[Je5u5]

25 minutes ago, promise to try said:

people that are now going in favour of this (very few, by the way) don´t realise that without this part in catalonia, the pro independence vote would be huge!!!!

That's part of the charm. Like Go separate from Spain but the bigger cities will remain. So good luck.

[promise to try]

if all the people in the read points would be against a referendum, and all the people in the blue ones in favour, I wouldn´t see a problem. But I´m afraid is not like this.

[karbatal]

Tabarnia is not a real movement. It's a movement created to show how all the reasons for separatism can be used both ways: Catalonia feels better and more developed than the rest and are tired of supporting the southern lands, where people only dance flamenco,  fight bulls and sleep siesta.  Well,  cities from Tabarnia (Barcelona and all factories belt)  are tired of supporting rural Catalonia, where they only dance sardana and are too lazy to have factories.  

People should remember that most of independent vote is from rural areas.  Due to the proportional system in the Catalan Parliament,  they have much more seats with less votes.  That's why this NOISY minority seems so big,  while in fact they're less than the people who feel comfortable in Spain.  

Another lie repeated nonstop is mixing those pro referendum with those pro independence.  Many people who want to be in Spain want a referendum so the independence lie is finally exposed.  I think up to 80% of the people in catalonia are pro referendum.  And international media and others think that that 80% are against Spain. 

[promise to try]

9 hours ago, karbatal said:

Another lie repeated nonstop is mixing those pro referendum with those pro independence.  Many people who want to be in Spain want a referendum so the independence lie is finally exposed.  I think up to 80% of the people in catalonia are pro referendum.  And international media and others think that that 80% are against Spain. 

this!!!everybody is mixing everything to make their numbers look better...meanwhile, PPs corruption is not something that appears as important as it should

[karbatal]

3 hours ago, promise to try said:

this!!!everybody is mixing everything to make their numbers look better...meanwhile, PPs corruption is not something that appears as important as it should

Corruption,  rise of the cost of living,  cuttings in money destined to education and health... 

I remember when Artur Más started this mess like six years ago I turned to my then boyfriend and said "look,  the distraction so people won't rebel". 

I've never believed this stupid mess and that's why I couldn't care less of what will happen.  My mind blocks it into a big FUCK YOU ALL.

As long as people don't lie and invent historical events or reasons for this mess,  I tune out. 

[karbatal]

Oh,  @elijah, you will find interesting, being a lawyer,  that Tabarnia COULD LEGALLY make a referendum to create a new autonomy in Spain

Our Constitution contemplates that part of an autonomy would to create a new one. It has happened before .  So if this "joke" goes too far from both parts,  they could try to make a LEGAL rerendum and torn Catalonia in two . Barcelona would be capital of Tabarnia! 

 

There's another big part of the Catalan Pyrenees,  Aran Valley,  who are fed up too and repeatedly have said that they would love to be part of Aragon

 

[elijah]

53 minutes ago, karbatal said:

Oh,  @elijah, you will find interesting, being a lawyer,  that Tabarnia COULD LEGALLY make a referendum to create a new autonomy in Spain

Our Constitution contemplates that part of an autonomy would to create a new one. It has happened before .  So if this "joke" goes too far from both parts,  they could try to make a LEGAL rerendum and torn Catalonia in two . Barcelona would be capital of Tabarnia! 

 

There's another big part of the Catalan Pyrenees,  Aran Valley,  who are fed up too and repeatedly have said that they would love to be part of Aragon

 

Nice. I d like to see those crazy Catalan villagers left without Barcelona, Tarragona and the others rich modern Mediterranean cities and how far they would go for their quest to secede. I bet they ll want to stay within Spain too. And it seems logical that it is possible for a region of Spain to change borders :). I mean its not like the independence quest of the Catalan villages. Didn't the same happen with Madrid and Castilia? And uou for Aran Valley! Hope they succeed.

[Kim]

@promise to try I don't know why you even bother trying to have a proper dialogue in this thread. You're talking to the same people spouting the most ignorant right wing views. Anyone reading this thread is being fed disinformation of the worst kind. 

Those who support democracy and freedom of speech have already spoken, the rest are nothing but white noise, the kind of stuff you mute on twitter.

 

[karbatal]

1 hour ago, Kim said:

@promise to try I don't know why you even bother trying to have a proper dialogue in this thread. You're talking to the same people spouting the most ignorant right wing views. Anyone reading this thread is being fed disinformation of the worst kind. 

Those who support democracy and freedom of speech have already spoken, the rest are nothing but white noise, the kind of stuff you mute on twitter.

 

Oh rebuke anything said here instead of bringing Promise in your argument.  If he doesn't agree with anything he will say and we will comment it.  I doubt he gives a damn just as I don't give a damn.  It's you who is always insulting.

What an absurd comment. 

Rebuke any misinformation given here if there's one.  

[promise to try]

what the hell has happened here? let me read it first

[promise to try]

2 hours ago, karbatal said:

Oh,  @elijah, you will find interesting, being a lawyer,  that Tabarnia COULD LEGALLY make a referendum to create a new autonomy in Spain

Our Constitution contemplates that part of an autonomy would to create a new one. It has happened before .  So if this "joke" goes too far from both parts,  they could try to make a LEGAL rerendum and torn Catalonia in two . Barcelona would be capital of Tabarnia! 

 

There's another big part of the Catalan Pyrenees,  Aran Valley,  who are fed up too and repeatedly have said that they would love to be part of Aragon

 

I would be in favour of it, I don´t think it´s a real big movement, but we all know that some spanish people love to laugh about anything that is not pro spain, just in the same way that a lot of people that don´t feel spanish laughs about them.

Again, is not the solution for any of these problems, neither the catalan, nor the basque, because we are all  living together, well, at least people that are not pp voters. The pp voters tend to be living in the same areas, at least here in the basque country.

but we live mixed together, so even if one area can be more pro indep. or against it, you have a lot of people that don´t feel the same. maybe in the really small towns this doesn´t happen, but that´s not the general rule. by the way, baout the Aran valey, you know that in basque valley is called...aran, who knows, maybe they prefer to be with us!

[promise to try]

Just now, Kim said:

@promise to try I don't know why you even bother trying to have a proper dialogue in this thread. You're talking to the same people spouting the most ignorant right wing views. Anyone reading this thread is being fed disinformation of the worst kind. 

Those who support democracy and freedom of speech have already spoken, the rest are nothing but white noise, the kind of stuff you mute on twitter.

 

well, I think the dialogue is the way to solve problems between people! and I don´t have the feeling that karbatal has been mocking me or laughing about me.he doesn´t take that tabarnia thing seriously either. Anyways, I can understand if he is fed up with us, after all, they are surrounded by the two nations (or whatever you want to call us) that want to have a new relation with spain, I really don´t  know if it´s independence or what, because legally nobody has asked us (because it´s not legal).And, in catalonia´s case, it´s true that they are fixing their history, even Aragon´s history, to make it look as they want it to look, but not as it really was.BUt I don´t really feel he is not respecting me.some politicians that are using democracy, the right to have a referendum, or the longing to be independent, to disguise their own shit, yes, they are laughing and missrespecting me.

I wish we could do it peacefully and with nobody feeling hurt or telling lies. But I guess we are not there yet. but we will!!!!!!!