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Spain...destroying themselves from the inside

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1 hour ago, Nessie said:

At least!

lets pray that the spanish government doesn't bomb them next week.

Well in your imagination maybe you picture my country bombing here and there but,  frankly,  other countries DO bomb every day to rob resources.  Spain doesn't. Focus on them... 

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Ines was shockingly on fire and very spot on during most of her speech.

I expected a stronger reaction from Anna Gabriel btw.

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2 hours ago, karbatal said:

Well in your imagination maybe you picture my country bombing here and there but,  frankly,  other countries DO bomb every day to rob resources.  Spain doesn't. Focus on them... 

I hope so! The last thing Europe needs is another civil war! By the look of it the spanish government is furious with this separatist movement and the catalans are not willing to back down...

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5 hours ago, karbatal said:

Well in your imagination maybe you picture my country bombing here and there but,  frankly,  other countries DO bomb every day to rob resources.  Spain doesn't. Focus on them... 

Exactly. The police violence was stupid, useless and unnecessary, but to paint Spain as this brutal state is also hilarious. And of course Spanish government won't just stay away doing nothing when a large part of the state secedes following a non representative referendum of the whole of the population of the region...

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Just now, Je5u5 said:

 

I expected a stronger reaction from Anna Gabriel btw.

she was really angry!!! especially when they signed the independence...she wasn´t happy. apparently one hour before the decision was to declare the independence 100% yesterday, and due to the international pressure asking them to dialogue, they decided to delay it...she and their group weren´t happy

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So, did they declare independence or not?

They have to clarify whats going on! It seems they are trying dialogue with Madrid but the answer is negative. If so, why bother to suspend the effects indefinitely? They are obviously afraid to have the spanish army at their door tomorrow... i hope the spanish government doesn't attempt to recover the region by force, that would immediately plunge the country in a civil war.

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26 minutes ago, Nessie said:

So, did they declare independence or not?

They have to clarify whats going on! It seems they are trying dialogue with Madrid but the answer is negative. If so, why bother to suspend the effects indefinitely? They are obviously afraid to have the spanish army at their door tomorrow... i hope the spanish government doesn't attempt to recover the region by force, that would immediately plunge the country in a civil war.

Rajoy has formally asked him to clarify if he declared the independence or not. And no, I wouldn't say they are trying to dialogue with Madrid tbh.

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23 minutes ago, Nessie said:

So, did they declare independence or not?

They have to clarify whats going on! It seems they are trying dialogue with Madrid but the answer is negative. If so, why bother to suspend the effects indefinitely? They are obviously afraid to have the spanish army at their door tomorrow... i hope the spanish government doesn't attempt to recover the region by force, that would immediately plunge the country in a civil war.

They are not afraid of the army. Will you please stop with the nonsense? We already told you today that this is not the case. 

They have not declared independence because the Catalonian Government are three very different parties: 

1. Conservative: elites, money.  They have ruled Catalonia for more than 30 years. They don't really want independence, they want a change of status regarding the Spanish communal fund, where every region gives the money earned and then recieves money depending on how much is needed. Catalonia gives a lot and wants more back. 

2. ERC. Left and republicans. Independentists since years and years BUT... very comfortable in the status quo because it's far easier to live asking for independence than handling independence, if you know what I mean. 

3. CUP. A new party. Really independentist. They are the only sincere here, i'm afraid. 

My opinion? Both Conservatives and ERC used the threat to try to change the rules of the game and get more money back, as Basque Country already does (because of ancient agreements from like 400 years ago). CUP really felt the need, along with many other citizens. As they have said today, they feel cheated and used. 

The army and all those things have nothing to do. By the way, tomorro is 12th October, that's the Spanish Day. There will be a military demonstration that happens EVERY YEAR FOR DECADES. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CATALONIA, EVERY YEAR THERE'S A PARADE IN ANY SPANISH CITY TO SALUTE TO THE TROOPS. I clarify this in case your news feed say that the "occupation" has already started or something :lmao:

 

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25 minutes ago, promise to try said:

well, not in every city, not in the basque country!

I didn't mean in every city. I meant that every year is in a different city. That's what i meant with "any Spanish city". "En cualquier ciudad". 

I don't know where is this year. Maybe Madrid? 

I recall now that one year, it was on 2001, just weeks after 11/S, we were in Zaragoza celebrating our Pilar Day, bringing flowers to the Virgin and all that and all being happy and then the Caza planes from the army did their ritual of coming from Madrid to Zaragoza, fly above the cathedral as a way to salute us. But we all got the shock of our lives because we thought the planes were going to crash against us, after so much footage on tv of the Twin Towers! :rotfl:

 

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2 hours ago, karbatal said:

They are not afraid of the army. Will you please stop with the nonsense? We already told you today that this is not the case.

Partition usually leads to civil war...

If they go ahead with their plan, then what else the spanish government could do?

Obviously if they are not willing to have any dialogue and attempt to strip Catalonia of its autonomy, they will have a situation there that cannot be resolved unless they assume control of the parliament, and by the way it seems the catalans are not going to just watch the spanish govenment take over their region without some level of resistance.

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Just now, karbatal said:

I recall now that one year, it was on 2001, just weeks after 11/S, we were in Zaragoza celebrating our Pilar Day, bringing flowers to the Virgin and all that and all being happy and then the Caza planes from the army did their ritual of coming from Madrid to Zaragoza, fly above the cathedral as a way to salute us. But we all got the shock of our lives because we thought the planes were going to crash against us, after so much footage on tv of the Twin Towers! :rotfl:

 

:lol::lol:

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28 minutes ago, Nessie said:

Partition usually leads to civil war...

If they go ahead with their plan, then what else the spanish government could do?

Obviously if they are not willing to have any dialogue and attempt to strip Catalonia of its autonomy, they will have a situation there that cannot be resolved unless they assume control of the parliament, and by the way it seems the catalans are not going to just watch the spanish govenment take over their region without some level of resistance.

I'm sorry but you are wrong.  Not even the UNO legislation supports these declarations.  The Government of Catalonia can't handle a situation like this,  with zero support and the firms administration HQ leaving to other regions.  People in Catalonia are even moving their savings to other Spanish cities. In a little county in Aragon more than 7 million euros have been moved from Catalonia. 

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Where do you get your sources Nessie?  Do you even know where is Spain? :lol:

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1 minute ago, karbatal said:

Where do you get your sources Nessie?  Do you even know where is Spain? :lol:

:angel: hope this crisis is resolved soon without violence... I think in the end the central government would grant some privileges like a Basque tax system, but then I think they should decrease the help they grant to Catalonia as grants. I have read that Catalonia is among the biggest beneficieries. Its all about the money and its absurd. They should show some solidarity to the other poorer parts of Spain.

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kolotumba%202.jpg

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The worst thing is that many people believed in those words from the parties.  The situation in Spain is not great nowadays and we all would love the perfect solution to kick the corrupts,  to start again... These Catalán people have an honest dream.

For me is an unfair dream,  but it's honest because you can't make people belong to a place they don't like.  Period. 

 But it was not a real dream in xxith EU with a common currency.  Maybe in the future,  with another European structure regions can become nations and answer to Brussels. But right now it's a MESS!  It's impossible to solve and even more with current economy. 

 

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1 hour ago, karbatal said:

Where do you get your sources Nessie?  Do you even know where is Spain? :lol:

I love you! don't be angry please! :kiss2:

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Spain gives Catalan leader eight days to drop independence

 

MADRID/BARCELONA (Reuters) - Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy on Wednesday gave the Catalan government eight days to drop an independence bid, failing which he would suspend the Catalonia’s political autonomy and rule the region directly.

His move could deepen the confrontation between Madrid and the northeastern region but also signals a way out of Spain’s biggest political crisis since a failed military coup in 1981.

Rajoy would probably call a snap regional election after activating Article 155 of the constitution that would allow him to sack the Catalan regional government.

Puigdemont issued a symbolic declaration of independence from Spain on Tuesday night but then immediately suspended it and called for negotiations with the Madrid government.

“The cabinet has agreed this morning to formally request the Catalan government to confirm whether it has declared the independence of Catalonia, regardless of the deliberate confusion created over its implementation,” Rajoy said in a televised address after a cabinet meeting called to consider the government’s response.

He later told Spain’s parliament the Catalan government had until Monday, Oct. 16 at 0800 GMT to answer. If Puigdemont was to confirm he did declare independence, he would be given an additional three days to rectify it, until Thursday, Oct. 19 at 0800 GMT. Failing this, Article 155 would be triggered.

It is not yet clear if the Catalan government will answer the requirement but it now faces a conundrum, analysts say.

If Puigdemont says he did proclaim independence, the central government will step in. If he says he did not declare it, then far-left party CUP would probably withdraw its support for his minority government.

“Rajoy has two objectives: if Puigdemont remains ambiguous, the pro-independence movement will get more fragmented; if Puigdemont insists on defending independence then Rajoy will be able to apply Article 155,” said Antonio Barroso, deputy director of the London-based research firm Teneo Intelligence.

“Either way, Rajoy’s aim would be to first restore the rule of law in Catalonia and this could at some point lead to early elections in the region.”

The stakes are high - losing Catalonia, which has its own language and culture, would deprive Spain of a fifth of its economic output and more than a quarter of exports.

CALL FOR DIALOGUE DISMISSED

Puigdemont had been widely expected to unilaterally declare Catalonia’s independence on Tuesday after the Catalan government said 90 percent of Catalans had voted for a breakaway in an Oct. 1 referendum. Central authorities in Madrid had declared the referendum illegal and most opponents of independence boycotted it, reducing turnout to around 43 percent.

Madrid responded angrily to Puigdemont’s speech to Catalonia’s parliament, saying his government could not act on the results of the referendum.

“Neither Mr. Puigdemont nor anyone else can claim, without returning to legality and democracy, to impose mediation... Dialogue between democrats takes place within the law,” Deputy Prime Minister Soraya Saenz de Santamaria said.

Invoking Article 155 to ease Spain’s worst political crisis in four decades would make prospects of a negotiated solution even more remote.

A spokesman for the Catalan government in Barcelona said earlier on Wednesday that if Madrid went down this road, it would press ahead with steps toward statehood.

“We have given up absolutely nothing...We have taken a time out...which doesn’t mean a step backwards, or a renunciation or anything like that,” Catalan government spokesman Jordi Turull told Catalunya Radio.

Spanish Socialist opposition leader Pedro Sanchez said he would back Rajoy if he had to activate Article 155 and that he agreed with the premier to launch constitutional reform within six months to address how Catalonia could fit better in Spain.

It was not clear how the Catalan government would respond to that offer.

MARKET RELIEF

Puigdemont’s speech also disappointed supporters of independence, thousands of whom watched proceedings on giant screens outside parliament before sadly leaving for home.

Financial markets, however, were encouraged that an immediate declaration of independence had been avoided.

After Puigdemont’s speech, Spain’s benchmark IBEX share index rose as much as 1.6 percent, outperforming the pan-European STOXX 600 index. The rally propelled the main world stocks index, the MSCI’s 47-country ‘All-World’ index, to a record high.

Spain’s 10-year government bond yield - which moves inversely to the price - dropped 5 basis points to 1.65 percent in early trade, according to Tradeweb data.

At European Union headquarters in Brussels, there was relief that Spain, the euro zone’s fourth-largest economy, now had at least bought some time to deal with a crisis that was still far from over.

One EU official said Puigdemont “seems to have listened to advice not to do something irreversible”. The EU has been cool to Puigdemont’s calls for European mediation.

The Catalan crisis has deeply divided the region itself as well as the Spanish nation. Opinion polls conducted before the vote suggested a minority of about 40 percent of residents in Catalonia backed independence.

Some of Catalonia’s largest companies have moved their head offices out of the region and others were set to follow if Puigdemont had declared independence.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-catalonia/spain-gives-catalan-leader-eight-days-to-drop-independence-idUSKBN1CG12O

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Just now, karbatal said:

The worst thing is that many people believed in those words from the parties.  The situation in Spain is not great nowadays and we all would love the perfect solution to kick the corrupts,  to start again... These Catalán people have an honest dream.

For me is an unfair dream,  but it's honest because you can't make people belong to a place they don't like.  Period. 

 But it was not a real dream in xxith EU with a common currency.  Maybe in the future,  with another European structure regions can become nations and answer to Brussels. But right now it's a MESS!  It's impossible to solve and even more with current economy. 

 

a huge sad mess

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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-crash/eurofighter-jet-crashes-in-spain-killing-pilot-idUSKBN1CH1JN?il=0

MADRID (Reuters) - A Eurofighter combat jet plane crashed near a military base in southeastern Spain on Thursday, killing its pilot, an emergency services spokesman said.

Local emergency services received a call at 1009 GMT informing them that the plane had crashed on farmland around the Los Llanos base near the town of Albacete, the spokesman said.

The jet had been taking part in a military parade to commemorate Spain’s national holiday and crashed on its return, a defence ministry spokesman said.

The causes of the accident were being investigated, the ministry added in a note

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yes, sad news.It´s weird, today it´s been a very calmed day after yesterday´s crazy day-Yes, there have been a lot of things happening,a fight between nazis in barcelona foe example, but very calmed...

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3 hours ago, promise to try said:

yes, sad news.It´s weird, today it´s been a very calmed day after yesterday´s crazy day-Yes, there have been a lot of things happening,a fight between nazis in barcelona foe example, but very calmed...

It's been the BIG DAY of the Feast in Zaragoza and people were clapping the Catalonia House where they were parading with flowers. They clapped the Corps too (Police) and clapped a lot to practically everything. We are in Aragon such clappers and ready to cheer and embrace :lol:  

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7 hours ago, XXL said:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-crash/eurofighter-jet-crashes-in-spain-killing-pilot-idUSKBN1CH1JN?il=0

MADRID (Reuters) - A Eurofighter combat jet plane crashed near a military base in southeastern Spain on Thursday, killing its pilot, an emergency services spokesman said.

Local emergency services received a call at 1009 GMT informing them that the plane had crashed on farmland around the Los Llanos base near the town of Albacete, the spokesman said.

The jet had been taking part in a military parade to commemorate Spain’s national holiday and crash led on its return, a defence ministry spokesman said.

The causes of the accident were being investigated, the ministry added in a note

this happens a lot you know ,i don't get the significance of this accident

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I wonder what was EU's official position at spain's police brutality the day of referendum?

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