MeakMaker Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 This Catalona crisis is getting so much exposure around the world I can't even imagine how huge it is in Spain. Must be exhausting. I feel for you guys living through it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 Just now, MeakMaker said: This Catalona crisis is getting so much exposure around the world I can't even imagine how huge it is in Spain. Must be exhausting. I feel for you guys living through it all. I find it interesting, but I guess for regular people it´s boring.and the worst part of it is that while everybody is looking at catalonia, the government is arpoving some laws that...is that true that the CETA was aproved this friday????? inteligent move for the PP-PSOE if that´s true, because they know we , well, most of the people wouldn´t agree with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 karbi!!! bunbury has a new album out!!!!! if you can grab anything in your job, steal it for me!!!! let´s behave like PP people, and steal for our friends and family!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, promise to try said: karbi!!! bunbury has a new album out!!!!! if you can grab anything in your job, steal it for me!!!! let´s behave like PP people, and steal for our friends and family!! I will ask the men from marketing, maybe this time Heraldo has something ready for Bunbury too? By the way, did you read about the man who is sharing the cell with that Jordi who is in prison? He asked to be transferred to another cell because he can't stand anymore listening to the Catalonia issue He said "this is like suffering two sentences" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 Just now, karbatal said: I will ask the men from marketing, maybe this time Heraldo has something ready for Bunbury too? By the way, did you read about the man who is sharing the cell with that Jordi who is in prison? He asked to be transferred to another cell because he can't stand anymore listening to the Catalonia issue He said "this is like suffering two sentences" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 by the way!!! puigdemont has left catalunya?!!! he is in brussels! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 10 minutes ago, promise to try said: by the way!!! puigdemont has left catalunya?!!! he is in brussels! He's a coward. Made this mess and now he flees there. But the Belgian prime minister said clearly that there won't be asylum for Puigdemont, even though the Flandes party offered? Oh dear he's such a pain, now he'll be responsible of the fall of the Government coalition in Belgium and will provoke elections there too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horn Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 13 hours ago, promise to try said: by the way!!! puigdemont has left catalunya?!!! he is in brussels! On one hand, he acted so courageous & patriotic and he loves Catalonia so much and willing to die for Catalonia and yet on the other hand, he had already made all the arrangement i.e. transferred all his family members + $$$$ out of Spain before announcing the "Independence". Once the announcement is made, he fled Spain quicker than the ray of light and leaving his supporters on their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Friends they tried to warn me about youHe has good manners, he's so romanticBut he'll only make you blue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 They really can't even make popular protests anymore... After the CUP wanted to do some PAELLA ( ) , now other independentist group want to do some barbeque. And independentists vegans are in rage! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeakMaker Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 8 minutes ago, karbatal said: Friends they tried to warn me about youHe has good manners, he's so romanticBut he'll only make you blue... He does come across as a deplorable. The Catalonian version of Farage. But I would say Farage he's worse as he legally won the Brexit referendum but he washed his hands clean of it straight away. 200 years ago these people would have been beheaded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, MeakMaker said: He does come across as a deplorable. The Catalonian version of Farage. But I would say Farage he's worse as he legally won the Brexit referendum but he washed his hands clean of it straight away. 200 years ago these people would have been beheaded. They could fool so many people. Just remember how one week ago people in many countries thought there would be a CIVIL WAR IN SPAIN I was laughing so much at the mere idea! Why is news nowadays so absurd? I mean, things get out of propotion really fast and then deflate even faster. This world is getting more absurd as we speak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeakMaker Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 37 minutes ago, karbatal said: They could fool so many people. Just remember how one week ago people in many countries thought there would be a CIVIL WAR IN SPAIN I was laughing so much at the mere idea! Why is news nowadays so absurd? I mean, things get out of propotion really fast and then deflate even faster. This world is getting more absurd as we speak! Definitely. I think there is this sense of creating more fear and chaos through the media. Even the whole idea of the referendum - which was illegal in the first place - was deemed as being an act of democracy which the Catalanians needed to escape oppression from the Spanish government. There is so much in the news that's not representative of what is real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 5 minutes ago, MeakMaker said: Definitely. I think there is this sense of creating more fear and chaos through the media. Even the whole idea of the referendum - which was illegal in the first place - was deemed as being an act of democracy which the Catalanians needed to escape oppression from the Spanish government. There is so much in the news that's not representative of what is real. Even media like the CNN got their facts wrong. For example, explaining that Catalonia "was different" because they had a Parliament. While there are 17 Parliaments in Spain and every region has one. Or The Times saying that Catalonia was a country before it was part of Spain... Things that, had they been true, would change the whole scenary a lot. Because if Catalonia had been conquered, they could claim the right of determination according to the UNO chart. But that was not the case as it has never been conquered and the population oppressed. Ever. Not even during the dictatures were they treated different to other people from other regions like Galicia, Basque Country, Valencia (in terms of language) or THE WHOLE SPAIN (in terms of rights). And that situation ended in 1978. If correspondents from media had tried to find some real facts amid these mess, I am sure that most people in the whole world wouldn't have thought the absurd idea that this would end in some kind of war. But of course, they wouldn't have got as many clicks in their webpages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijah Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 4 hours ago, karbatal said: Even media like the CNN got their facts wrong. For example, explaining that Catalonia "was different" because they had a Parliament. While there are 17 Parliaments in Spain and every region has one. Or The Times saying that Catalonia was a country before it was part of Spain... Things that, had they been true, would change the whole scenary a lot. Because if Catalonia had been conquered, they could claim the right of determination according to the UNO chart. But that was not the case as it has never been conquered and the population oppressed. Ever. Not even during the dictatures were they treated different to other people from other regions like Galicia, Basque Country, Valencia (in terms of language) or THE WHOLE SPAIN (in terms of rights). And that situation ended in 1978. If correspondents from media had tried to find some real facts amid these mess, I am sure that most people in the whole world wouldn't have thought the absurd idea that this would end in some kind of war. But of course, they wouldn't have got as many clicks in their webpages. Whoever has been in Barcelona like me knows very well of the oppression Catalonians have to live through :). In reality it's one of the most privileged regions of Spain and EU in general. Why would one want to fuck this up was beyond me from the beginning of this crisis. That's why I suspect foreign influence and media manipulation because if you know the region all this seems illogical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 31, 2017 Author Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, karbatal said: we shouldn´t laugh about him: remember all the times media has been making jokes about them, and they have so far, continue their war against the estate. I know it may sound ridiculous, but a representative of the spanish state, puigdemont, it´s thinking about asking help to other country. I bet the media in some of the countries are talking about the problem because of this.Also, the markets are not feeling confortable with it, and we know who rules the countries nowadays. and, meanwhile the spanish government has called for new elections in catalonia, and of course, now peole see them again as a referendum.Of course, the spanish side will only take as such if their part wins.and if the proreferendum side loses, they may think that their only government is puigdemont´s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 14 hours ago, promise to try said: we shouldn´t laugh about him: remember all the times media has been making jokes about them, and they have so far, continue their war against the estate. I know it may sound ridiculous, but a representative of the spanish state, puigdemont, it´s thinking about asking help to other country. I bet the media in some of the countries are talking about the problem because of this.Also, the markets are not feeling confortable with it, and we know who rules the countries nowadays. and, meanwhile the spanish government has called for new elections in catalonia, and of course, now peole see them again as a referendum.Of course, the spanish side will only take as such if their part wins.and if the proreferendum side loses, they may think that their only government is puigdemont´s... I understand what you mean but sometimes laughing put things in perspective. A man calling from a rebellion from the distance is embarrassing. Especially when his second on board (Junqueras) has stayed in Barcelona. From Aragon we have shared all the same history as them for almost one thousand years , including the lost or rights in the 18th century. Ours were taken out in 1712, theirs in 1714. We have always laughed at their bitterness and rancour for something that happened 300 hundred years ago and that nowadays amount to nothing. They changed our history, wrote lies in their school books about the "kings of Catalonia" and even changed their names and numbers. We in Aragon were mistreated by Madrid since 1978 while Catalonia was the spoiled child. They got their Parliament in 1980 and we had to demonstrate for 20 years to get the same rights. Catalonia was considered "an historical region" while we were not. They were moaning about being "oppressed" all the time while getting all support to get EU funds. We've been laughing at them for years and now it was like eating popcorn from the first row. The lies have finally been exposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 of course, it´s healthy to laugh about anything that stresses us, but...some people are laughing at him /them in a way that may go against them.In fact, there is a new o-1 in december, and meanwhile they are only laughing at him going to brussels.I still think this is part of a plan, it´s impossible to be thinking about this so many years, and to not have thought about a B-plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted November 1, 2017 Author Share Posted November 1, 2017 http://www.eitb.eus/es/noticias/politica/detalle/5181652/el-independencia-sube-no-baja-sondeo-generalitat/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 It's up to them to waste more time pursuing something impossible in 2017. Who knows, maybe in 2025 the EU has changed some treaty and regions can become independent or choose if they depend directly from Brussels. Then it would be great to fight for your new status. But right now it's clear that the EU is not supporting separatism and no region in the state that is Catalonia, drowned in debt, could survive outside the EU, being in the eurozone. It's not bad that those parties win. They can work together to make their region great. To reduce unemployment, to have better services... Instead of spending millions with some offices around the world where friends of them get a lot of money working as unofficial ambassadors of Catalonia, for example. Or spending big chunks of money hiring agencies to design an independent Treasure Ministery... All the money drained during these past five years... It all will be known. It could have been invested on services instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 ok, so now all the catalan government are in jail, all but the president, who has decided to stay in Brussels. People have been laughing at him for a week, and now they realise that the spanish desitition is making some countries unconfortable...and they can still talk to the president from catalonia. and of course, they have created more pro independece people in catalonia, because a lot of people sees this as an insult to the legal institutions from catalonia. Barcleona´s major has said it very well, this is not only an attack to catalonia, but to the spanish democracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Agree. I don't think this overwhelming judicial force is going to help calm the situation. I don't think it is "an attack on democracy" though as independentists say, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 We are so used at not having politicians in jail that this is brand new territory. But to be fair, what these people have done is very serious. I just read that Catalonia is the region in Spain where unemployment rose the most this past month. Tourists are cancelling each day. Spanish people aren't going there as before. Spain is lucky that Draghi is still buying debt or else we would have been begging to the markets.... They can't go home and nothing happened. I think the there should be a middle, not this judicial decision out of proportion but neither going home whistling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 Oh dear why do we have politicians and administrations not working for the general well being? Not only in Spain but everywhere. Is it too much to ask? To have governments focusing on creating a better society and judges judging corruption and felonies instead of having vendettas??? It's depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 Just now, karbatal said: We are so used at not having politicians in jail that this is brand new territory. But to be fair, what these people have done is very serious. I just read that Catalonia is the region in Spain where unemployment rose the most this past month. Tourists are cancelling each day. Spanish people aren't going there as before. Spain is lucky that Draghi is still buying debt or else we would have been begging to the markets.... They can't go home and nothing happened. I think the there should be a middle, not this judicial decision out of proportion but neither going home whistling. actually...in the basque country we are so used to that, politicians, journalists, any kind of people related to basque culture...we have had hundreds of people (well, maybe a hundred) that have been in jail, because they wre supposed to be terrorists. And I´m sure they weren´t. Julio Anguita used to say that we should be careful with the laws created by the system against ETA, because eventually they were used against the common people. and we have has do many pacific people in jail over the years, that this new situation in catalunya reminds me of my youth!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 wait a minute, I remember talking to a journalist that was part of the famous 18/98 trial, and she told us that if the spanish government was going to continue like this, they were going to need a football stadium for all the accused people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share Posted November 3, 2017 and now that there is a news about some policeman laughing about one of the politicians in jail, saying something like "they are going to do everything to the bear in jail", the tortures to one of the most important journalists in the basque country have come to my mind (Martxelo Otamendi). They apparently raped him, well, they introduced something down his ass.and I believe him, a lot of people that are not eta friendly still believe his story... so, when I read what you said, I mean, an open minded inteligent person that shares with me a lot of things...wow, basque country and Aragon, it seems incredible that wse are from the same country and era!!! we have had totally different last 40 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotos8 Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 22 hours ago, promise to try said: ok, so now all the catalan government are in jail, all but the president, who has decided to stay in Brussels. People have been laughing at him for a week, and now they realise that the spanish desitition is making some countries unconfortable...and they can still talk to the president from catalonia. and of course, they have created more pro independece people in catalonia, because a lot of people sees this as an insult to the legal institutions from catalonia. Barcleona´s major has said it very well, this is not only an attack to catalonia, but to the spanish democracy Well ,with all due respect ,this does not look like a democracy at all ..it's more like a display of power from the spanish government .It's like our own referendum in Greece ,we voted for something and our government (with the pressure of the EU of course) , did the opposite ,for our own shake.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jan Posted November 4, 2017 Share Posted November 4, 2017 Instead of sending people to jail, how about having another referendum. Put the vote to the people of Catalonia to decide their future. If the majority don't want independence as people keep saying, this will either prove it or disprove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share Posted November 4, 2017 Just now, sotos8 said: Well ,with all due respect ,this does not look like a democracy at all ..it's more like a display of power from the spanish government .It's like our own referendum in Greece ,we voted for something and our government (with the pressure of the EU of course) , did the opposite ,for our own shake.... well, low quaility democracy, was the way a politicians back in the 90s-00s used to call it. It has to be said that we had a huge problem with a group killing and kidnapping people, and the governments didn´t know what to do with it. so they decided that anything that sounded similar to what ETA was saying it had to be ilegal.And they think it worked, although in my opinion what finished with them was that basque society was mostly super against them, and that some politicians started talking to them even if the PP disagreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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