Rock Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 anyways: they are playing chess.and the spanish government has made a bold move, elections in catalonia in december.It´s very risky, because they may not like the results...I wonder what are they going to say then about the "silent mayority" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 27, 2017 Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Just now, Kim said: It's always good to be on the RIGHT side of history though. And I am! you, we are always in the right siude of history, when we do what we really want to do, in the way we want to do it...if it works for a lot of catalans, good for them, but I really doubt it. and I think their move, unlike the one in scotland, is going to work against us basque that want a legal referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iasonas Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Catalonia was so cool up until the mid 2000s... Now they look like a bunch of delusional deplorables. It's crazy how a 35% to 40% of the people act like they represent 100% of the region's citizens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotos8 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, iasonas said: Catalonia was so cool up until the mid 2000s... Now they look like a bunch of delusional deplorables. It's crazy how a 35% to 40% of the people act like they represent 100% of the region's citizens. that's why the spanish goverment should let them all vote in their referendum instead of beating them up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeakMaker Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 These politicians are so incompetent that they're going to bring their country to civil war. I pray for Spain ( Catalonia included of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotos8 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, MeakMaker said: These politicians are so incompetent that they're going to bring their country to civil war. I pray for Spain ( Catalonia included of course). you know politicians are reflecting their respective people ,so if they're incompetent then the people is incompetent too .It goes both ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeakMaker Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 8 minutes ago, sotos8 said: you know politicians are reflecting their respective people ,so if they're incompetent then the people is incompetent too .It goes both ways Definetly. But these politicians are taking in consideration the will of the people who would rather fuck it all up nonetheless. Also let's not forget the corruption that's going on in politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotos8 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Yes ,fuck it all up because this world is a failure .I'm with all of them that want the world to be different than it is .But frankly i'm trying to explain who's behind all this .Is it Putin who he's appearing from the West responible for everythinh or maybe Germany that wants to get rid of a strong country and a big economy like Spain is ,in order to rule Europe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeakMaker Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 2 hours ago, sotos8 said: Yes ,fuck it all up because this world is a failure .I'm with all of them that want the world to be different than it is .But frankly i'm trying to explain who's behind all this .Is it Putin who he's appearing from the West responible for everythinh or maybe Germany that wants to get rid of a strong country and a big economy like Spain is ,in order to rule Europe? But this world is a failure because people are selfish and hateful; because they put their own interests first following a dangerously self serving agenda. There is greed and corruption; poverty and inequality; war and conflicts; discrimination and crime. There are also ideologies of division, protectionism, supremacy and neo nationalism getting stronger than ever lately. It's not hard to see why this world is failing. And don't think Germany would gain anything from Catalonia independence. The EU as a whole is actually getting weaker with all these separatist movements. That's why the Brexiters in the U.K. are all rooting for a Catalonia independence. Just seen a Brexiter journalist interviewed on BBC news and he was happy for the Catalonia independence. It makes sense in their eyes. 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider of the lost Ark Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 2 hours ago, sotos8 said: Yes ,fuck it all up because this world is a failure .I'm with all of them that want the world to be different than it is .But frankly i'm trying to explain who's behind all this .Is it Putin who he's appearing from the West responible for everythinh or maybe Germany that wants to get rid of a strong country and a big economy like Spain is ,in order to rule Europe? Well, I guess Germany is already ruling Europe. The German economy is roughly three times the size of the Spanish one and represents roughly 30% of the Eurozones GDP. Why would Germany want to destroy a country it does lot of trade with? Destroying would also mean to lose billions of Euros Spanish companies and institutions are in debt with German companies. Putin will definitely enjoy this. It is no secret that he wants Europe to fall apart to gain back power. Just as it is no secret that the Kremlin in supporting a lot of right wing parties and organizations in France, Germany, Austria etc.. Parties that are very anti Europe. Let's face it, Russia may have nuclear weapons. But this is basically the only reason they are considered powerful. Politically and economically Russia is not really a powerhouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijah Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 7 hours ago, iasonas said: Catalonia was so cool up until the mid 2000s... Now they look like a bunch of delusional deplorables. It's crazy how a 35% to 40% of the people act like they represent 100% of the region's citizens. Exactly. The situation is getting worse, hope for no violence and that Catalonians at large choose to remain a part of Spain. And that claim that Germany could have any interest in weakening Spain is absurd. Germany is already the most influential voice in Europe but its interest has always been a strong EU/EU countries. That's a blow to EU too, not just Spain. Germany needs prosperous and united Spain, not 12 states on Iberia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 12 hours ago, sotos8 said: Silly question:if Catalonia is in Spain why does have a separate government? Spain is made out of 17 autonomies. Each of them have self-government and parliament. Spain is the most devolved country IN THE WORLD and every autonomy decides in which language to work officially. In the Catalonia case, they've been part of central governments for the past 30 years, which was really profitable for them, as support meant heavy investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 14 hours ago, sotos8 said: that's why the spanish goverment should let them all vote in their referendum instead of beating them up... That would be against the Constitution, which was approved by referendum. Catalonia included. I would have allowed the referendum as it would have end this once and for all, though. But you can't do as you please when there's a law. Imagine a country now unilaterally changing European laws? They would be heavily sanctioned. That doesn't mean that violence was right, of course. That was horrible. But as @promise to trytry knows very well, it was not as violent as other confrontations for less important problems. The difference was that this time it was heavily recorded and exposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 10 hours ago, sotos8 said: you know politicians are reflecting their respective people ,so if they're incompetent then the people is incompetent too .It goes both ways Well then all USA people grab pussies and all British people are xenophobic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeakMaker Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 In your opinion Karbal do you think this crisis could escalate into a civil war? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 1 hour ago, MeakMaker said: In your opinion Karbal do you think this crisis could escalate into a civil war? No Wtf? In a civil war the army has to be turned in two because of a coup or people have to receive arms from an external interested party. Besides we are not that savage! We had a civil war last century because some military people didn't want our democratic Republic and only half of the army supported those rebels. Is this the opinion people have of Spain??????, that we start killing each other in the blink of an eye? This is a political and social crisis but nobody is a savage here. Catalonia people are regular normal people just as the rest of the country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 The independist party CUP refuses new elections and calls the population to have a popular PAELLA that day I'm not joking. That's their official declaration I'm screaming.... Can you be more SPANISH???? Now I understand why the girl wore the day of the independence a t-shirt with the words SUN AND PAELLA. The most typical Spanish things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Just now, MeakMaker said: In your opinion Karbal do you think this crisis could escalate into a civil war? not a civil war, but civil problems yes, between catalans, not spanish people "from spain" against catalonians by the way, it seems finland is going to accept the independence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Just now, karbatal said: The independist party CUP refuses new elections and calls the population to have a popular PAELLA that day I'm not joking. That's their official declaration I'm screaming.... Can you be more SPANISH???? Now I understand why the girl wore the day of the independence a t-shirt with the words SUN AND PAELLA. The most typical Spanish things actually, paella is from valencia, so it´`s part of the paisos catalans. It´s like the potatoes omelette, born in bilbao apparently,in the frist carlist war, and people outside the basque country call it spanish omelette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Just now, karbatal said: No Wtf? In a civil war the army has to be turned in two because of a coup or people have to receive arms from an external interested party. Besides we are not that savage! We had a civil war last century because some military people didn't want our democratic Republic and only half of the army supported those rebels. Is this the opinion people have of Spain??????, that we start killing each other in the blink of an eye? This is a political and social crisis but nobody is a savage here. Catalonia people are regular normal people just as the rest of the country. a lot of people are thinking about it, ask the markets! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 15 minutes ago, promise to try said: not a civil war, but civil problems yes, between catalans, not spanish people "from spain" against catalonians by the way, it seems finland is going to accept the independence No, the Finland news was a lie. Another lie was that GAMBIA had recognised it Besides, Finland is part of the EU and no EU country would recognise it. It's against the principles of the EU. The president of the EU parliament released a note reminding that not only Catalonia has to respect the Spanish law, but that Spain law is included in the EU frame law. That means that even if Spain wanted Catalonia to be independent that would go against the EU law. That last part is VERY important and really brings a new perspective for future situations in other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 7 minutes ago, promise to try said: a lot of people are thinking about it, ask the markets! The markets? The fall of borse was 1.45%, the day before had risen tye same amount. There was far more volatility during the Greek crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 16 minutes ago, promise to try said: actually, paella is from valencia, so it´`s part of the paisos catalans. It´s like the potatoes omelette, born in bilbao apparently,in the frist carlist war, and people outside the basque country call it spanish omelette Ask someone from Valencia if the paella is part of the Paisos Catalans and he will faint Are these people trying to appropriate that too????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeakMaker Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 1 hour ago, karbatal said: No Wtf? In a civil war the army has to be turned in two because of a coup or people have to receive arms from an external interested party. Besides we are not that savage! We had a civil war last century because some military people didn't want our democratic Republic and only half of the army supported those rebels. Is this the opinion people have of Spain??????, that we start killing each other in the blink of an eye? This is a political and social crisis but nobody is a savage here. Catalonia people are regular normal people just as the rest of the country. I wouldn't like to think so but that is the sort of spin we are seeing in our media. I know it's all sensationalism and another way to sell papers but still.. Just come across this for example: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/871999/Catalonia-independence-catalan-spain-civil-war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 1 hour ago, MeakMaker said: I wouldn't like to think so but that is the sort of spin we are seeing in our media. I know it's all sensationalism and another way to sell papers but still.. Just come across this for example: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/871999/Catalonia-independence-catalan-spain-civil-war Oh dear. Well as Promise To Try has very well said, it is expected social confrontation between people in Catalonia. But nobody is violent. I can't imagine a citizen from Catalonia or from other part of Spain creating violent havoc. Those journalists are incredibly irresponsible and frankly very stupid. There can't be a war with only one army and with regular and normal people living in Catalonia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 There's a lot of misinformation nowadays tbqh. Like when some international media said that Spain had sent the army while in fact only trucks went there to bring food and things to the Police moved there. They were trucks from the Logistic Brigade from my city. They gave the goods and came back. But they said it was an occupation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 two totally different thoughts: -The first one about the civil problems. Apparently they are happening already, non in a way you can call important, but they are happening.in catalunya, between catalans, it seems. -I still think the catalan government is playing chess, they are trying to use everything to finally have the spanish government making public mistakes. that´s why they declared the independence this week, but without really declaring it. I was surprised that nobody appeared in the balcony to get rid off the spanish flag that is still there as a simbolic thing to show the world that they are a different state now...and apparently they didn´t declare the independence totally the other day. anything that you do in the parliament must be published and a lot of other things, and they didn´t do anything, they only voted but without following their rules.This may seem as a non important thing, or a stupid mistake, but when the PP government is going to judge them, they will say that the independence wasn´t declared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Well one thing that went smooth was the Mossos (Catalonia Police) transition. The second on board is now the chief and all agreed to obey their immediate superior, that has always been the Security Minister of Spain. That's one problem solved. I hope there's no legal prosecution against Puigdemont and company, it will only bring uproar. It's far better that they step down and others in their party concur to the elections. According to the first polls the separatists would no longer have majority in the Parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
promise to try Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 Just now, karbatal said: I hope there's no legal prosecution against Puigdemont and company, it will only bring uproar. It's far better that they step down and others in their party concur to the elections. According to the first polls the separatists would no longer have majority in the Parliament. I never believe the polls. And some people are dying for a legal prosecution!! in both sides! some want revenge, others want to find reasons to make the spainsh government look bad.both sides are trying to use the mistakes for themselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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