Cannes bans burkinis over suspected link to radical Islamism

[elijah]

In a way that ban is understandable. Why? One has to look at Egypt, Afghanistan or other places with islamic majority from the 70ties and u ll see nothing of burkas or burkinis. Why? Because conservative islam was unknown then and on those places. Salafism now is being promoted by the Saudi sponsored mosques which are the majority of the mosques in Europe (newly build). Suddenly u see "ultraconservative" islamic clothing everywhere and that includes burkinis. As for those crying for the muslim women and their right to hide their bodies in burkinis, think about the fact that where that clothing is required they either trow gay men from tall buildings (ISIS) or kill them or imprison them (Saudi Arabia). You don't think those women identify with those places and want those "rules" recreated in the host country? Then they probably wouldn't be dressed in a way that associates them with that form of islam (salafism, wahabism). As a whole I may sound undemocratic or islamophobic, but I always thought that Europe is a place for muslims and should be a place for muslims, but not those that are ultraconservative and those that want Sharia law to be applied. Sharia law stands against everything the so called West stands for. So in that sense Europe should be the ideal place for muslims that feel oppressed by that religion or those that accept it but also accept the fundamental ideas on which Europe is build post WW2. And those include rule of law and the law forbids burkins so everyone should accept that.

[Love Spent]

Muslim women get fined in France over clothing.

Muslim women in the Middle East get killed over clothing.

Which one causes the most outrage?

[Guest]

Muslim women get fined in France over clothing.

Muslim women in the Middle East get killed over clothing.

Which one causes the most outrage?

[ULIZOS]

Muslim women get fined in France over clothing.

Muslim women in the Middle East get killed over clothing.

Which one causes the most outrage?

This is like, a red herring.

One has nothing to do with the other.

And maybe some people are more outraged because France is a western country just like most of ours. We believe in tolerance. Maybe not acceptance, but tolerance, yes.

[karbatal]

Enough. We should promote liberty. There's no excuse to cut our liberties just because 5.000 km away there's a dictature.

Imagine in the 60s if Spanish people had been cut their liberties in France simply because there was a dictature here? Absurd.

[GOD]

They are delusional. How can a ban on clothes make anything better, or safer?

When they banned nikab I thought that's understandable because it covers the face but why innocent women get treated this way?

[Rebel Saviour]

Muslim women get fined in France over clothing.

Muslim women in the Middle East get killed over clothing.

Which one causes the most outrage?

I am outraged by both things.

[ULIZOS]

Enough. We should promote liberty. There's no excuse to cut our liberties just because 5.000 km away there's a dictature.

Imagine in the 60s if Spanish people had been cut their liberties in France simply because there was a dictature here? Absurd.

It's called a red herring. It's what silly people do when they don't really have an argument. Go look at the US Presidential thread. If i say ANYTHING about Clinton everyone just says "oh, well Trump is worse" or "well, Bush did the same thing."

Same thing here. "Well, they get treated WORSE in Saudi Arabia so who cares?" Like that makes it okay.

[runa]

It's called a red herring. It's what silly people do when they don't really have an argument. Go look at the US Presidential thread. If i say ANYTHING about Clinton everyone just says "oh, well Trump is worse" or "well, Bush did the same thing."

:rotfl:

[ULIZOS]

:rotfl:

It's true. What happens when that woman wins? Oh, I know, they'll feel like "their team" won and move on. They'll stop caring what our representatives do and then our politicians will get away with sketchy crap like always because NOBODY CARES past the elections. Or worse, some people just said "well, things were WAY WORSE 1000 years ago and this is just the way things are. Politicians do bad things." or whatever Again, it's a red herring. Just because Hitler less than a century ago did something horrible doesn't mean that what our politicians do today is okay. It has nothing to do with it and it's not a real argument.

Jut because Saudi Arabia is the fucking worst doesn't mean we should all sit back and just let our highly militarized police forces carry out our politicians' scaremongering tactics.

[runa]

The problem is you only pointing one party when they are both guilty of the same thing. That's only what I said.

But you always feel attacked by what we say and make us say what we haven't said.

[elijah]

It's true. What happens when that woman wins? Oh, I know, they'll feel like "their team" won and move on. They'll stop caring what our representatives do and then our politicians will get away with sketchy crap like always because NOBODY CARES past the elections. Or worse, some people just said "well, things were WAY WORSE 1000 years ago and this is just the way things are. Politicians do bad things." or whatever Again, it's a red herring. Just because Hitler less than a century ago did something horrible doesn't mean that what our politicians do today is okay. It has nothing to do with it and it's not a real argument.

Jut because Saudi Arabia is the fucking worst doesn't mean we should all sit back and just let our highly militarized police forces carry out our politicians' scaremongering tactics.

Ulizos, have u been recently to Europe? Cause things might look differently from across the pond. Just saying.

[ULIZOS]

Ulizos, have u been recently to Europe? Cause things might look differently from across the pond. Just saying.

What do you mean?

I've only been to France.

[elijah]

Cause its different when u go from an European city to European city and you find them very different from few years prior and Paris being one of the prime examples. Its different when u have no refugees like it is in Mexico. Brussels and Paris are guarded by the army nowadays something unthinkable 5 years prior I think.

[Roland Barthes]

.........

Thank you Ulizos & Karbatal.

Why would women wearing headscarves and burkinis be more of a danger in France than in England or Italy ? It's about context and it has nothing to do with the terrorist attacks we had. It's all about the presidential race.

Radical islamists HATE burkinis because it is emancipation for muslim women. When they wear burkinis at the beach they go against what radical islamists want meaning : having a life out of home and mixing with other people. You could see women in burkinis swimming next to topless women or in bikinis, something radical islamists are totally against. They want women to stay home. Burkinis are a compromise between the pressure of islamists, their faith and living their lives. Burkinis may cover the whole body but they are also very revealing because they stick to the body revealing curves, another thing radical islamists are against.

Muslim women are stuck between a rock and a hard place being told to cover up and stay home on one side and to remove their clothes or stay home on the other when they are just trying to find a way to live their faith and a regular life. By banning burkinis we are sending them home.

This local law (different from the law.....and it's now being challenged in court to see if it fits with the constitution) is only playing the game of terrorists. They are using the pictures of that woman on the beach being forced to remove her clothes as propaganda against us to show some muslims who don't know better that we are in a war against them and we humiliate muslim women. It's now making the rounds on every islamist website and social media.

They use these images to tell muslims we can't live together.

The mayors who have forbidden not burkinis (it's not named in the law) but "clothings expressing one's beliefs" are all supports of Nicolas Sarkozy and it's no coincidence he announced he was running for french presidency 4 days ago. He is touring tv stations and on the covers of political magazines only talking about Islam. His chief of campaign (who used to run the minister of immigration) said that Islam will be the main focus of the campaign. Sarkozy wants the Le Pen Voters. All this is orchestrated. And it's only the beginning. Marine Le Pen said nothing, neither did her niece, it's coming from the regular right wing so imagine what will be said and done when the campaign will be full blown. Be prepared to see a side of France you've never imagined existed.

Remember when Madonna came over here to promote Rebel Heart and said it reminded her of pre WWII and was crucified by the french press for saying it.....she was absolutely right. What we are doing now with french muslims (because it should be pointed that these women who were humiliated are french citizens not migrants) is what we did to french jews. Police reported that they receive thousands of calls everyday from people telling them where to find women with headscarves on the beach.

I'm not fond of headscarves or burkinis but it's none of my business what one decides to wear. If it were then i'd ask for Desigual to be banned forever. This law is also creating a legal precedent since it did not specifically named burkinis but any piece of clothing that could create a public disruption so we can expect now a law banning men from wearing women clothes (to keep away transvestites and pre op trans person).

And it's not a first. 5 years ago mothers wearing headscarves were banned from participating intheir kids school's outside activities as monitors.

[Mmmmm]

Thank you Roland, I applaud you! Same to Karbatal and Ulizos.

[Guest]

Enough. We should promote liberty. There's no excuse to cut our liberties just because 5.000 km away there's a dictature.

Imagine in the 60s if Spanish people had been cut their liberties in France simply because there was a dictature here? Absurd.

Surely you can say the same in reverse then? If it's expected of the west to tolerate a culture that arrived from a specific geographical region (not a religion btw) then maybe every country there should stop arresting women for drinking alcohol. Like this is OUR CULTURE. This is not a case of civil liberty.

I don't agree with what France is doing AT ALL. However there are countries that systematically rape/torture/dominate women and it's unheard of while this ridiculously superficial bullshit is everywhere. SJW hipsters with no grasp on reality. Even people here living in the middle east have expressed a negative sentiment towarda the hijab as a mysoginistic tool.

[karbatal]

Yes.

Yes to you. Yes to Elijah.

Let's do something to help THERE instead of cutting liberties HERE.

[Jaz]

However there are countries that systematically rape/torture/dominate women and it's unheard of while this ridiculously superficial bullshit is everywhere. SJW hipsters with no grasp on reality. Even people here living in the middle east have expressed a negative sentiment towarda the hijab as a mysoginistic tool.

This is the GU I love!

[Guest]

This is the GU I love!

You've been a member here for a long time but I don't feel like I know you. Post a picture.

[Raider of the lost Ark]

The whole situation is a mess. Some countries are too hesitant to deal with those issues, some countries go overboard with their decisions. Here is the way I see it. It should be finally accepted that in Europe we have a secular society which means state and church/religion are two separate things. Therefore rules/laws should be implemented that reflect this strict separation. That means, no signs of religion are to be shown anywhere that is considered state run or publically funded. That includes schools, universities, public administration or agencies, courts, police etc. Of course this includes the ban of crucifixes as well. Interestingly, Turkey until a few years ago did it the right way. The moment you entered a university you had to take off your headscarf or veil. There were no discussions. I see so many unresolved issues you always wonder WTH is going on. You have female students that do not participate in swimming lessons. You have students that go to court to have a prayer room in their school. You have applicants that sue a public office because they are not allowed to wear religious clothing. No one understands how those things are even possible in a so called secular country. It's time for politicians to grow some balls and finally end this nonsense. You are not offending anyone by saying "this is a school financed by the tax payers of this country, its job is to teach math, biology etc., religion is your private matter, so keep it out of here and if swimming lessons are part of the education then you have to do that or you'll be fined and will not be able to pass". Of course, this does not apply to private schools with a religious background (that still have to work under the rules of the public school system). But that's different. If I sent my child knowingly to a catholic school or whatever then I know they have crucifixes on the wall. Anyway, I think it is not a countries job to respect the religious beliefs of people when those people make use of a public service that is funded by all tax payers that don't necessarily share the same religious beliefs. The only way to respect that is to keep religion out. This is not offensive, this is common sense.

[elijah]

I have to agree with raider on this. It's a good compromise. But foreign funded Islam mosques or buildings should be outlawed too as a way to stop spreading Wahhabism.

[Raider of the lost Ark]

I have to agree with raider on this. It's a good compromise. But foreign funded Islam mosques or buildings should be outlawed too as a way to stop spreading Wahhabism.

Those should be under investigation by security agencies. The moment they teach or preach things that disrespect the constitution or laws they should be closed. In a secular society there are no higher laws than the constitution or the laws set by the state that are meant to protect ALL people. Every action or speech that incites violence or death against other people should be punished by law.

[karbatal]

I will sound very Lucky Guy-esque, but part of me thinks that somebody wants us to hate them. That if they wanted to fight against these people they woul do other things. They want society to hate islam just like when were kids we felt that Communists were the enemy and were dangerous and cruel.

[GOD]

I have to agree with raider on this. It's a good compromise. But foreign funded Islam mosques or buildings should be outlawed too as a way to stop spreading Wahhabism.

These are concerning issues but has nothing to do with banning burkinis, don't mix the 2.

[elijah]

These are concerning issues but has nothing to do with banning burkinis, don't mix the 2.

it has cause in the 70ties that Saudi style of dressing was not popular in places like Afghanistan. That ultraconservative attire goes hand in hand with the newly build mosques in Europe. But I agree that it's a strange measure.

[elijah]

I will sound very Lucky Guy-esque, but part of me thinks that somebody wants us to hate them. That if they wanted to fight against these people they woul do other things. They want society to hate islam just like when were kids we felt that Communists were the enemy and were dangerous and cruel.

hmm interesting. There are some common features between Islam (conservative form) and communism.

[Roland Barthes]

The law was suspended by the State Council just a few minutes ago.

[Moka]

Good news.

But I feel sick to even imagine that this piece of cloth will be the most talked about issue in the next months until the presidential election. Economy? Terrorism? Unemployment? No : burkini!

[Roland Barthes]

Good news.

But I feel sick to even imagine that this piece of cloth will be the most talked about issue in the next months until the presidential election. Economy? Terrorism? Unemployment? No : burkini!

AND WE'RE STILL IN AUGUST ! I'm gonna be so sick by april.