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Priest and 4-6 hostages taken in Northern France

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Extract from the article:

Warning No 1: many on the Left won’t like what Erbibou has to say about the relationship between mental illness and radicalisation.

“With all this experience, we have been able to come to some conclusions … It has nothing to do with craziness,” he says.

“It’s a political proposition. Their main objective is very simple, they want to replace democracy and all the values of democracy, the laws of men, with the law of God and they want society that is ruled by sharia. That’s it. They say we have no legitimacy and we have no right to create our own laws.

“So this is a political proposition that is based on something religious.

“We are very clear about that from the work our psychologists do. They (the radicalised men and women) have no psychopathology. Not at all,” he says, pointing out that the same percentage of those with mental illness in the general community appears among those who are radicalised by an Islamic terrorist ideology. Erbibou points to Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, the terrorist who killed 84 people in Nice on July 14.

“He was separated, he was depressed, but everybody breaks up, everybody is sad at times in their lives, not every body does what he did … It has nothing to do with mental illness.”

Islamic jihadist recruiters draw in conscripts using different grievance entry points, says Erbibou, including religious identity. And those recruiters are more often from Saudi Arabia than Syria or Iraq, he says, pointing to Wah­habism, Saudi Arabia’s official and extreme version of Islam.

“When Saudi Arabia expresses condemnation of terrorism, we know what they are doing. We see the recruiters here. And the problem is that when these Saudi recruiters go back to Saudi Arabia, they have created vocations here, some local recruiters start to work in this field.”

Erbibou mentions France’s so-called super-jihadist, Omar Omsen, who, from his fast-food shop in Nice, recruited more than 40 men to fight in Syria.

“Daesh, this new caliphate, it comes to fix something in the Muslim identity,” Erbibou says. “And what we understood is that there is the possibility of getting into this ideology, jihadism, this political ideology, when people break with society — when they stop wanting to integrate into society, when they hate society. They hate France.”

From working closely with young people, Erbibou observes that it’s not just Islamic jihadist recruiters who spread the victimhood message.

Warning No 2: those on the Left won’t like what he says next.

Erbibou says “the most terrible thing we can do for them” is to perpetuate the myth of victimhood. He condemns the mentality that says France and other Western countries are racist.

“If I have a friend who is Muslim, and I tell him all the time that France is racist, that it’s the most racist country in the world, that we live in apartheid France, that French people hate Muslims, what are the chances that he wants to integrate, why would he want to go to work, why would he want to merge in our society?” asks Erbibou.

We may want to take note after a week of hysterical accusations of racism against the Nine Network’s Sonia Kruger and senator-elect Pauline Hanson.

With more than five million Muslims in France, the victimhood narrative is especially dangerous. The horrific terrorist attack in Nice and the dozens of other recent terrorist attacks have a common thread: a toxic mix of victimhood and grievance that leads to retaliation.

Erbibou says while the French government is working to boost the security apparatus of the state, more needs to be done to combat a growing and pernicious victimhood mentality. “There is this left-wing (mentality) in France — still today — that it’s our mistake. It’s because of us. Because we didn’t integrate them. Because we are racist.

“That is terrible,” Erbibou explains, “because these words, these discourses only make them (those at risk of radicalisation) break with society.”

He says other groups in France that work with those who have been, or are at risk of being, radicalised peddle this dangerous message.

“If you keep telling people they are right to complain, to feel that France is racist, and stuff like that, you won’t help France, you won’t help them. You will help only ISIS (Islamic State).”

A flourishing victimhood culture exists in different spheres across Australia, too. Left-wing activists create “Islamophobia” registers and spruikers in the media are only too happy to reinforce the victimhood message to Muslims. Too many academics are steeped in a warped moral relativism. The University of Sydney’s Peter Chen told the ABC’s The Drum last week that the “radical Islamic terrorism” label makes sense only if we describe the West’s attempt to fight against terrorism in the Middle East as “radical Christian terrorism”.

We even have laws that institutionalise victimhood and grievance and offer legal retaliation in the courts. Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act invites people to claim victimhood status because their feelings are hurt. This section invites people to seek a legal response to their victimhood-based grievance in the courts.

When our own laws and many among us promote a perverted sense of victimhood, we shouldn’t be surprised when young men and women who feel aggrieved by the words and actions of others hunt down cartoonists in Paris or gays in an Orlando nightclub or people celebrating Bastille Day in Nice.

The related problem, says Erbibou, is the failure of more people in his country, and right across the West, to speak more proudly about democratic values.

“In France … and I think it’s the same for all the democratic countries, we lost our values, we forgot who we were, we forgot what’s the real basis of our civilisation.”

He makes the caveat that we all must: “Of course not all Muslims are terrorists, we have to remind people of that.”

Erbibou explains the strategy of Islamic State is to ask Muslims to perpetrate terrorist attacks so that French people think that all Muslims are potential terrorists, then Muslims feel discriminated against, making them more susceptible to Islamic State ideology.

“They express this strategy very clearly so we have to protect our fellow Muslims citizens. But this doesn’t mean that we have to close our eyes to what’s happening,” he warns, at the end of our conversation.

It’s all well and good to pass new terrorism laws. It’s appropriate too that Islamic leaders confront problems of their faith. But a broader and deeper look at our culture raises the question: when will our political leaders, and those on the Left who feed the victimhood mindset, open their eyes to how aspects of our own culture may fuel terrorism?

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This right here.

It's revealing that the mere suggestion of "trying to understand" these people made you some sort of sympathizer. That kind of reaction justifies exactly what you're saying. If more people "tried to understand" maybe these killers wouldn't be nurtured in the first place. I think that mentality can be applied to any of the worlds major problems. It never will though sadly. People are more interested in reacting and pointing fingers than understanding and truly solving the problem at it's core.

Guys...no offense but this is bullshit.

These people are BRED to hate every aspect of the way we live our lives. The freedom of women in society, the brands we buy, the religion we follow and everything that fundamentally makes us 'us'.

When people say 'Oh a Muslim died in a twerrorist attack by IS too' they're missing the point. This isn't a religious war. This is a war of ideals. I can NEVER understand why women should be treated like slaves, I can NEVER understand why people of a certain sexuality should be criminalised and murdered and I can NEVER understand why I shouldn't have the freedom to buy a product from America or any part of the world that I choose.

These are EXTREMISTS. They aren't able to be understood. The Muslim neighbour of the attacker in Germany had questioned if he was involved with IS and his reply was that he didn't sympathise with their cause. After his attack it was confirmed that yes he was working for IS. They're planted in society to wreak havoc. In some cases they may have suffered in their early life but that's not what we should be focusing on. You can't reason with the insane.

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My personal understanding of why religious extremist preachers aren't expelled:

1) Human rights to free speech.

2) If the police are aware of these people it's easier to build a network of potential attackers. If these people were removed from the country it would drive their followers/replacements into hideaway and secrecy. At that point they would be a much greater threat to society and probably considered as some kind of activist or martyr.

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Extract from the article:

Warning No 1: many on the Left won’t like what Erbibou has to say about the relationship between mental illness and radicalisation.

“With all this experience, we have been able to come to some conclusions … It has nothing to do with craziness,” he says.

“It’s a political proposition. Their main objective is very simple, they want to replace democracy and all the values of democracy, the laws of men, with the law of God and they want society that is ruled by sharia. That’s it. They say we have no legitimacy and we have no right to create our own laws.

“So this is a political proposition that is based on something religious.

“We are very clear about that from the work our psychologists do. They (the radicalised men and women) have no psychopathology. Not at all,” he says, pointing out that the same percentage of those with mental illness in the general community appears among those who are radicalised by an Islamic terrorist ideology. Erbibou points to Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel, the terrorist who killed 84 people in Nice on July 14.

“He was separated, he was depressed, but everybody breaks up, everybody is sad at times in their lives, not every body does what he did … It has nothing to do with mental illness.”

Islamic jihadist recruiters draw in conscripts using different grievance entry points, says Erbibou, including religious identity. And those recruiters are more often from Saudi Arabia than Syria or Iraq, he says, pointing to Wah­habism, Saudi Arabia’s official and extreme version of Islam.

“When Saudi Arabia expresses condemnation of terrorism, we know what they are doing. We see the recruiters here. And the problem is that when these Saudi recruiters go back to Saudi Arabia, they have created vocations here, some local recruiters start to work in this field.”

Erbibou mentions France’s so-called super-jihadist, Omar Omsen, who, from his fast-food shop in Nice, recruited more than 40 men to fight in Syria.

“Daesh, this new caliphate, it comes to fix something in the Muslim identity,” Erbibou says. “And what we understood is that there is the possibility of getting into this ideology, jihadism, this political ideology, when people break with society — when they stop wanting to integrate into society, when they hate society. They hate France.”

From working closely with young people, Erbibou observes that it’s not just Islamic jihadist recruiters who spread the victimhood message.

Warning No 2: those on the Left won’t like what he says next.

Erbibou says “the most terrible thing we can do for them” is to perpetuate the myth of victimhood. He condemns the mentality that says France and other Western countries are racist.

“If I have a friend who is Muslim, and I tell him all the time that France is racist, that it’s the most racist country in the world, that we live in apartheid France, that French people hate Muslims, what are the chances that he wants to integrate, why would he want to go to work, why would he want to merge in our society?” asks Erbibou.

We may want to take note after a week of hysterical accusations of racism against the Nine Network’s Sonia Kruger and senator-elect Pauline Hanson.

With more than five million Muslims in France, the victimhood narrative is especially dangerous. The horrific terrorist attack in Nice and the dozens of other recent terrorist attacks have a common thread: a toxic mix of victimhood and grievance that leads to retaliation.

Erbibou says while the French government is working to boost the security apparatus of the state, more needs to be done to combat a growing and pernicious victimhood mentality. “There is this left-wing (mentality) in France — still today — that it’s our mistake. It’s because of us. Because we didn’t integrate them. Because we are racist.

“That is terrible,” Erbibou explains, “because these words, these discourses only make them (those at risk of radicalisation) break with society.”

He says other groups in France that work with those who have been, or are at risk of being, radicalised peddle this dangerous message.

“If you keep telling people they are right to complain, to feel that France is racist, and stuff like that, you won’t help France, you won’t help them. You will help only ISIS (Islamic State).”

A flourishing victimhood culture exists in different spheres across Australia, too. Left-wing activists create “Islamophobia” registers and spruikers in the media are only too happy to reinforce the victimhood message to Muslims. Too many academics are steeped in a warped moral relativism. The University of Sydney’s Peter Chen told the ABC’s The Drum last week that the “radical Islamic terrorism” label makes sense only if we describe the West’s attempt to fight against terrorism in the Middle East as “radical Christian terrorism”.

We even have laws that institutionalise victimhood and grievance and offer legal retaliation in the courts. Section 18C of the Racial Discrimination Act invites people to claim victimhood status because their feelings are hurt. This section invites people to seek a legal response to their victimhood-based grievance in the courts.

When our own laws and many among us promote a perverted sense of victimhood, we shouldn’t be surprised when young men and women who feel aggrieved by the words and actions of others hunt down cartoonists in Paris or gays in an Orlando nightclub or people celebrating Bastille Day in Nice.

The related problem, says Erbibou, is the failure of more people in his country, and right across the West, to speak more proudly about democratic values.

“In France … and I think it’s the same for all the democratic countries, we lost our values, we forgot who we were, we forgot what’s the real basis of our civilisation.”

He makes the caveat that we all must: “Of course not all Muslims are terrorists, we have to remind people of that.”

Erbibou explains the strategy of Islamic State is to ask Muslims to perpetrate terrorist attacks so that French people think that all Muslims are potential terrorists, then Muslims feel discriminated against, making them more susceptible to Islamic State ideology.

“They express this strategy very clearly so we have to protect our fellow Muslims citizens. But this doesn’t mean that we have to close our eyes to what’s happening,” he warns, at the end of our conversation.

It’s all well and good to pass new terrorism laws. It’s appropriate too that Islamic leaders confront problems of their faith. But a broader and deeper look at our culture raises the question: when will our political leaders, and those on the Left who feed the victimhood mindset, open their eyes to how aspects of our own culture may fuel terrorism?

wow, very interesting article, thank you!!!!!

And yes, to perpetuate the myth of victimhood is wrong too. What a complex situation. And we don't have a mirror where to look. This is brand new territory in Human history.

I do think though that some cases are because some crazy loon snapped. Of course, it's not the case in others.

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My personal understanding of why religious extremist preachers aren't expelled:

1) Human rights to free speech.

2) If the police are aware of these people it's easier to build a network of potential attackers. If these people were removed from the country it would drive their followers/replacements into hideaway and secrecy. At that point they would be a much greater threat to society and probably considered as some kind of activist or martyr.

spot on.

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soooooo what are we suicidal europeans supposed to do then. Go and fight whom and where - just lock up people in case they seem suspicious (and in that case - how are we supposed to do that - monitor online activity of every single person - since nobody has "anything to hide"). I doubt that would be really the way to go. Throwing out any non european would neither be a solution, especially since at least half of these attackers are in fact europeans from birth. Forbidding religion completely would neither work, one way would be to make everyone preach maybe in the local language and unannounced visits (would need to be the same though for churches etc too).

Also in some churches there are shitty things being preached as well, not only in mosques.

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I have nothing against Muslims and their religion but they should just go and practice their religion without forcing their views on everyone else. They don't realise the Quran prohibits the killing of innocent people.

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Teenagers who killed French priest made film declaring allegiance to Isis

jihadis who murdered a priest celebrating mass in a French church made a video pledging their allegiance to IS before the attack, it was reported on Wednesday. Two men, believed to be Adel Kermiche and his accomplice, named in unconfirmed reports as Abdel Malik P, are shown in the video released by Isis’s Amaq news agency.

French authorities have come under intense pressure to explain how they let Kermiche loose after judges believed his claims that he regretted trying to join Isis and was not an extremist.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/27/french-authorities-under-pressure-to-explain-release-of-priests-killer

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/normandy-church-attack-adel-kermich-isis-france-saint-etienne-du-rouvray-jacques-hamel-a7157316.html

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I think people try too hard to work out why people are terrorists and try to sympathise with them. I have zero sympathy for anyone who beheads someone, blows up buildings, bombs innocent people in crowds and has no empathy or regard for human life. While people keep trying to make excuses for them and pussy footing around, they are growing in numbers everyday. They are also spoiling things for decent, law abiding immigrants who come to countries for a better life and contribute greatly. There has to be zero tolerance and zero understanding for terrorists from everyone. They have no respect for human life and are simply evil and barbaric. People who cruelly murder others can rot in Hell for all I care.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

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Oh, thanks babe, hahahaha. What shocked me about this thread is that people would think that any poster in Madonnanation would support or excuse those killers!

Words matter (Barack Obama was right).

You have to be careful with your words, honey.

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I'm sorry to karbatal for insinuating he would be questioned by homeland security. He was just thinking out loud and there's nothing wrong with that. Of course people should discuss the root cause.

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I think people try too hard to work out why people are terrorists and try to sympathise with them. I have zero sympathy for anyone who beheads someone, blows up buildings, bombs innocent people in crowds and has no empathy or regard for human life. While people keep trying to make excuses for them and pussy footing around, they are growing in numbers everyday. They are also spoiling things for decent, law abiding immigrants who come to countries for a better life and contribute greatly. There has to be zero tolerance and zero understanding for terrorists from everyone. They have no respect for human life and are simply evil and barbaric. People who cruelly murder others can rot in Hell for all I care.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

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I'm sorry to karbatal for insinuating he would be questioned by homeland security. He was just thinking out loud and there's nothing wrong with that. Of course people should discuss the root cause.

Oh I just read this. I'm sorry I let myself go too. As i said, I think I expressed myself badly first. So, sorry too

Big big kiss

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If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.

What about if you're shopping for a new pair of jeans and then somebody blows you up? You kind of don't know anything then.

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It refers to Security and Secret Services. The more they know what triggers these people, the more they can make strategies.

Knowledge it's not to help them once they are radicals, but trying to create a strategy against this brand new way to fight.

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A person who works in Secret Services once told me that they are monitoring THOUSANDS of potential people just in Spain and they have people working in disguise in radical circles. Surely it's the same in other European countries.

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What about if you're shopping for a new pair of jeans and then somebody blows you up? You kind of don't know anything then.

Then you die and go to hell for the rest of eternity for being a faggot.

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A person who works in Secret Services once told me that they are monitoring THOUSANDS of potential people just in Spain and they have people working in disguise in radical circles. Surely it's the same in other European countries.

I believe that is true. But why in the hell can't they stop these huge attacks before the killing starts?

The Orlando shithead was under surveillance and interviewed twice by the FBI. The 5 (!) French secret security agencies had the killer in Nice on their lists. One of the killers of the priest was wearing an electronic bracelet because he was caught twice trying to train with IS in Syria.

The examples are endless! Yes, there is incompetence at play but almost everytime they just slip away? Who in the hell believes that?

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You can only monitor them and get as much info as possible so you can know if he interacts with new people. But as Hollande said yesterday, you cannot build a European Guantanamo where you imprison people that you think could so something bad. It would be the most antidemocratic thing ever!

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When people who work in the secret services apparently divulge certain information which should not be shared to begin with, it's not really surprising that alleged "surveillance" turns out to be a gigantic failure.

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Not at all. It's common known. That person told me for an article explaining the policies. You can google them too. Or do you really think Secret Services simply watch Bond movies? They spy. And a lot. And spy the bad guys.

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Where have I ever said that I think they watch Bond movies, huh? Do not put words into my mouth.

Why is it that certain forum members whenever their point of view is challenged they feel the need to resort to aggressiveness and talking down on others? Enough!

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Calm down, it was just a wayt to explain that spies would be doing spy things. Why do you say that about the aggressiveness (i just discovered this word exists! yay). That was not my intention.

Kiss.

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A person who works in Secret Services once told me that they are monitoring THOUSANDS of potential people just in Spain and they have people working in disguise in radical circles. Surely it's the same in other European countries.

Yes, it's the same here in the UK and will be also in Germany and France. Apparently, the intelligence in France the Germany is failing for some reason. Unfortunately, you can't arrest people for potentially committing a crime.

What has been highlighted is that the muslim communities are less integrated in France and Germany than the UK too which isn't helping the situation as well as it being much easier to smuggle assault rifles round continental Europe.

One of the problems is the 'lone wolves' suddenly acting out their plans and not being part of a network but being radicalised by watching videos. They're not part of ISIS but they say they are doing it Both the Orlando and Nice killers appeared to have issues with their sexuality too which has driven them to depression and pushed them over the edge.

Both of them to me seem they were more Columbine style attacks - someone angry at their situation that they can't do anything about.

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When people who work in the secret services apparently divulge certain information which should not be shared to begin with, it's not really surprising that alleged "surveillance" turns out to be a gigantic failure.

but they do it,and they do it on purpose.

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I believe that is true. But why in the hell can't they stop these huge attacks before the killing starts?

Im sure they stop a lot of them,but we don't know it.but one that is not stopped...and I think it's really difficult to control all the people,because you don't need to be in a group or doing certain things to create chaos and kill people.is not " our typical" terrorist group

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Then you die and go to hell for the rest of eternity for being a faggot.

Honey I'm going to heaven and being a double faggot. I know the enemy, I know myself, I know how to get to heaven and I know how to be the best faggot I can be. Fuck extremists.

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Oh I just read this. I'm sorry I let myself go too. As i said, I think I expressed myself badly first. So, sorry too

Big big kiss

Oh good I'm glad you saw it :)

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:clap: :clap:

Wish millions would do this.

Dozens of Muslims take stand against ISIS killings by attending Sunday Mass at the church where French priest was murdered

  • Muslims gather at cathedral in Rouen where Rev Jaques Hamel, 85, died
  • Some sat in front row in front of altar two terrorists filmed Islamic sermon
  • Among parishioners was nun who was taken hostage inside the church
  • Catholics and Muslims embraced at services across Europe in solidarity

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3717052/Dozens-Muslims-stand-against-ISIS-killings-attending-Sunday-Mass-church-French-priest-murdered.html

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