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The Great Camille Paglia!!!


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Unlike her very scorn and bitter text last month, Paglia effectively elaborates her point of view on the subject in this article. 

I do not agree with her in the details, but overall I think she identifies effectively the dead end in which many aging women find themselves in the industry.

 

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and do we all honestly love that banana joke anyway? if billboard wanted to censor her, they should have censored the jokes. (am i the only one thinking she makes silly jokes because shes nervous?)

that said, i do think she's trying to ignore the mistakes (or the lack of photos?) from the women like marlene who were not photographed when they looked less beautiful. she tells the nice things but ignores the bad. im sure if paparazzi were with as many then there wouldve been many ugly pics of marlene that she didnt want to see published.. a lot of people from the 40s (and so on) have very few bad images, because most were pre approved.

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The Great Camille Paglia

..... Not!

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/camille-paglia-how-age-disgracefully-hollywood-guest-column-960794   (Article  already trascrpited above)

Wow this woman seems to be so bitter. Madonna should have been more clear regarding mentioning Camille Paglia because Paglia did support Madonna when Madonna was on top of her game, young, beautiful and the greatest superstar the world has ever seen... but as soon as Madonna started the aging process and consequently losing chart appeal and popularity Paglia has often been very critical of Madonna... so in that respect Madonna wasn't entirely wrong about so called feminist Paglia. She should have specified the time frame and make it clear.

Paglia would like the world to believe Madonna didn't suffer any sort of backlash from publishing the Sex book. Paglia is an idiot and lost all her credibility by claiming Sex was hugely successful and Madonna turned it into some sort of Spanish Inquisition. Yes Sex was a commercial success and Madonna of all people would tell you that ( "Everybody went to buy it" according to Madonna) but it did hurt Madonna's immense popularity and everybody with a brain would tell you that but Camille would lie in order for people to follow her logic which makes her incredibly vendicitve and stupid.

Paglia is also showing downright ignorance in pretty much stating Radio is nolonger that important today because streaming is what makes a song popular... Well, Camille if that's the case how come both streaming and radio play charts are pretty much the same. Songs by Bieber, Drake, Rihanna, Swift, etc.. are both a streaming and radio success. If airplay didn't have an impact on streaming why people keep streaming songs which are already hugely successful on air. Is she really saying Madonna's new music is bad and doesn't deserve to be played? But if that is the case and Madonna truly lacks merit can Camille say a name of an artist over the age of 50 female -and male at this point- who is actually hugely successful on the charts? On the radio? On streaming? Is she really that stupid? 

Camille Paglia believes that Madonna's creativity is limited to her live shows but even if we accept that is it wrong? Madonna could easily do a Mariah Carey giving to her fans the worst possible live experience but she didn't choose to do that. She worked hard and chose the right people to work with so why should she be berated for that?

Bottom line: when Madonna mentioned Camille Paglia during that speech I felt bad for her because even myself I read an article online ( I think it was Vanity Fair dated 1990) in which Paglia did indeed praise Madonna but if we actually put on a scale the times when she was critical and scornful about Madonna and the times when she celebrated Madonna well we all know the score. I'd say she had it coming in that respect.

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8 hours ago, Martin B. said:

Unlike her very scorn and bitter text last month, Paglia effectively elaborates her point of view on the subject in this article. 

I do not agree with her in the details, but overall I think she identifies effectively the dead end in which many aging women find themselves in the industry.

 

I get what you're saying but the question should be: shouldn't we all choose to age how the heck we want? If I choose to age believing I'm still a teenager for example who am I hurting? Jeez there's a lot of kids who think they are adults and society accepts that because it's part of growing up but why can't we accept that maybe part of getting older or aging is also getting or still staying in touch with our silliness or free spirited behaviour as well. Why so many people get offended by that? As if just only when we reach a certain age we are all supposed to behave and not making mistakes or "act our age"? Who wants that anyway? I don't want to grow older and be boring.. I still want to be me. If I want to look after my body and stay as young as possible even deep into my 70's what's so wrong with that? Who am I offending? If I want to crack sex jokes in my 80's who am I hurting? Is it ever that possible that we just can't accept people as people regardless of their sex, sexuality, race, bank accounts AND yes age as well?

I sense an ageist tone in Camille Paglias article; how she went on to describe how some female stars choice on ageing is better than others. Is there a rule on how one is supposed to age, Camille? The problem is a lot of aging people are actually more ageist than the young ones ironically... maybe it's self loath. And I also sense jealousy from Camille. Madonna might not have a hit on the radio or on the streaming (lol) charts but she's surely still a beautiful woman requested to appear on the cover of many magazines... maybe Paglia would like a little bit of that as well.. just saying. 

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5 minutes ago, MeakMaker said:

I get what you're saying but the question should be: shouldn't we all choose to age how the heck we want? If I choose to age believing I'm still a teenager for example who am I hurting? Jeez there's a lot of kids who think they are adults and society accepts that because it's part of growing up but why can't we accept that maybe part of getting older or aging is also getting or still staying in touch with our silliness or free spirited behaviour as well. Why so many people get offended by that? As if just only when we reach a certain age we are all supposed to behave and not making mistakes or "act our age"? Who wants that anyway? I don't want to grow older and be boring.. I still want to be me. If I want to look after my body and stay as young as possible even deep into my 70's what's so wrong with that? Who am I offending? If I want to crack sex jokes in my 80's who am I hurting? Is it ever that possible that we just can't accept people as people regardless of their sex, sexuality, race, bank accounts AND yes age as well?

I sense an ageist tone in Camille Paglias article; how she went on to describe other female stars choice on ageing. Is there a rule on how one is supposed to age, Camille? The problem is a lot of aging people are actually more ageist than the young ones ironically. And I also sense jealousy from Camille. Madonna might not have a hit on the radio or on the streaming (lol) charts but she's surely still a beautiful woman requested to appear on the cover of many magazines... maybe Paglia would like a little bit of that as well.. just saying. 

Yes,  it would be great if people just accepted that people age how they want.  . The whole "ageing gracefully"  is well and good for those who want that and they should also age exactly how they want.    I love all types of so called  "ageing" stars whether it be Madonna, Cher, Jane Fonda, Helen Mirren, Jennifer Lopez or Celine Dion.   They are women doing what they want, they don't have to be told to age a certain way.   

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48 minutes ago, jazzyjan said:

Yes,  it would be great if people just accepted that people age how they want.  . The whole "ageing gracefully"  is well and good for those who want that and they should also age exactly how they want.    I love all types of so called  "ageing" stars whether it be Madonna, Cher, Jane Fonda, Helen Mirren, Jennifer Lopez or Celine Dion.   They are women doing what they want, they don't have to be told to age a certain way.   

Exactly. Thank you Jazzy. In short why defining people by their age? 

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The only comparable actress is sharon stone whose i havent seen in film in years...

 

everytime she talks about marlene... But as someone said above she lived in a era where pictures of her were rare

now we live in a live HD world

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13 hours ago, MeakMaker said:

I get what you're saying but the question should be: shouldn't we all choose to age how the heck we want? If I choose to age believing I'm still a teenager for example who am I hurting? Jeez there's a lot of kids who think they are adults and society accepts that because it's part of growing up but why can't we accept that maybe part of getting older or aging is also getting or still staying in touch with our silliness or free spirited behaviour as well. Why so many people get offended by that? As if just only when we reach a certain age we are all supposed to behave and not making mistakes or "act our age"? Who wants that anyway? I don't want to grow older and be boring.. I still want to be me. If I want to look after my body and stay as young as possible even deep into my 70's what's so wrong with that? Who am I offending? If I want to crack sex jokes in my 80's who am I hurting? Is it ever that possible that we just can't accept people as people regardless of their sex, sexuality, race, bank accounts AND yes age as well?

I sense an ageist tone in Camille Paglias article; how she went on to describe how some female stars choice on ageing is better than others. Is there a rule on how one is supposed to age, Camille? The problem is a lot of aging people are actually more ageist than the young ones ironically... maybe it's self loath. And I also sense jealousy from Camille. Madonna might not have a hit on the radio or on the streaming (lol) charts but she's surely still a beautiful woman requested to appear on the cover of many magazines... maybe Paglia would like a little bit of that as well.. just saying. 

Yes of course. However, we should not be naive. A majority of women artists over 50 who deform and freeze their face with cosmetic surgery and wear their daughter's clothes do not do it because it matches the way they want to age but rather because it is the only way they see to continue to exist professionally in a culture of youth. The great failure of feminism over the last 25 years has been the failure to concretely establish that women can age and remain sexual and active while physically looking their age. In an aging western society, the large number of influential women over 50 should have been able to impose another body image of woman. This has unfortunately not been the case. We are still stuck in the stereotype of the woman who must look falsely young, eternally thin and dress up like at 30 if she wants to exist on the job market.

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Personally, I'm wondering when this pathetic, ageist old harridan is gonna start dressing like a 70 year old truck driver instead of a 20 something one. Get some respect Paglia! Dress like the old has-been you are, not the vital, modern intellectual force you never were. 

That people can't see that TELLING ANYONE how they should look or dress is wrong is beyond me. Take your Psych 101 and stick it.

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2 hours ago, Martin B. said:

Yes of course. However, we should not be naive. A majority of women artists over 50 who deform and freeze their face with cosmetic surgery and wear their daughter's clothes do not do it because it matches the way they want to age but rather because it is the only way they see to continue to exist professionally in a culture of youth. The great failure of feminism over the last 25 years has been the failure to concretely establish that women can age and remain sexual and active while physically looking their age. In an aging western society, the large number of influential women over 50 should have been able to impose another body image of woman. This has unfortunately not been the case. We are still stuck in the stereotype of the woman who must look falsely young, eternally thin and dress up like at 30 if she wants to exist on the job market.

But it's also true that's what exactly makes them more appealing because that's the idea that we have of sexy people. How many female and male feel attractive with wrinkles or a very heavy body? I think it's more about the concept of health and beauty. Which is very personal imho. It's very true society might instill the idea that we have to look a certain way to feel sexy or to attract people but in the end i think that's all down to the rules of attractions. If a woman for a reason or another wants to look falsely young in her 60's who is she hurting? If Camille Paglia or other women are happy in showing their "real" age and be happy with their aging body waiting to rot away that's their prerogative in the end. No one is accusing them of anything but it should also be accepted that some women -and men I must say- take pride in their looks and they want to keep them as long as possible  why making it a social problem? Let's not forget how for thousands of years men and women died relatively young, they would start aging in their 20's. Nowadays we can live for much much longer, keep our body and skin young and healthy. Why not taking advantage of that instead of being critical of it?

I think Camilles obsession in criticising how women or men decide to age is very ageist in that respect. And her point of women feeling forced to do it to fit into the ideas of society is ridiculous. Does she really believe these women aren't happy to still be able to flaunt their bodies? To still feel sexy and healthy? Oh no they're doing it to please society standard. Whatever. They're doing it because they want to do it and they're happy with it. 

If her problem is how Hollywood treat aging actresses then maybe she's just barking at the wrong tree. She shouldn't have a go at the likes of M but to an industry in which women will always be second to men. Nothing to do with looks imo. In fact women are still getting paid less than men in pretty much every industry; even in ones in which physical appearance has nothing to do with the job. 

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4 hours ago, MeakMaker said:

But it's also true that's what exactly makes them more appealing because that's the idea that we have of sexy people. How many female and male feel attractive with wrinkles or a very heavy body? I think it's more about the concept of health and beauty. Which is very personal imho. It's very true society might instill the idea that we have to look a certain way to feel sexy or to attract people but in the end i think that's all down to the rules of attractions. If a woman for a reason or another wants to look falsely young in her 60's who is she hurting? If Camille Paglia or other women are happy in showing their "real" age and be happy with their aging body waiting to rot away that's their prerogative in the end. No one is accusing them of anything but it should also be accepted that some women -and men I must say- take pride in their looks and they want to keep them as long as possible  why making it a social problem? Let's not forget how for thousands of years men and women died relatively young, they would start aging in their 20's. Nowadays we can live for much much longer, keep our body and skin young and healthy. Why not taking advantage of that instead of being critical of it?

I think Camilles obsession in criticising how women or men decide to age is very ageist in that respect. And her point of women feeling forced to do it to fit into the ideas of society is ridiculous. Does she really believe these women aren't happy to still be able to flaunt their bodies? To still feel sexy and healthy? Oh no they're doing it to please society standard. Whatever. They're doing it because they want to do it and they're happy with it. 

If her problem is how Hollywood treat aging actresses then maybe she's just barking at the wrong tree. She shouldn't have a go at the likes of M but to an industry in which women will always be second to men. Nothing to do with looks imo. In fact women are still getting paid less than men in pretty much every industry; even in ones in which physical appearance has nothing to do with the job. 

The reason she's saying it, is to get over-reactive people to....overreact about her words. 

She knows fine well that the REAL problem is that women are still not allowed to age however they CHOOSE to age.  Instead of challenging that, instead of getting angered about the "put it away Grandma" and "eeeew she's soooo old" shit coming from not only social media, not only mainstream media, but her very own ageing "fans", this worthless woman-hater takes the easy route and joins in, while pretending she's not. It's all Madonna's FAULT she doesn't put on a cardigan and play lady of the manor. But then this silly bitch probably complained back then when Madge was doing that as well.

The only mistake Madonna made was mentioning her dirty name at all during that speech, thus giving her an "in" to this shit she's spouting.

 

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If I hear the name Helen Mirren one more time as some great example of elegance personified, someone's gonna get hurt.

Besides Ms.Lena Horne blows them all away.

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56 minutes ago, Kim said:

The reason she's saying it, is to get over-reactive people to....overreact about her words. 

She knows fine well that the REAL problem is that women are still not allowed to age however they CHOOSE to age.  Instead of challenging that, instead of getting angered about the "put it away Grandma" and "eeeew she's soooo old" shit coming from not only social media, not only mainstream media, but her very own ageing "fans", this worthless woman-hater takes the easy route and joins in, while pretending she's not. It's all Madonna's FAULT she doesn't put on a cardigan and play lady of the manor. But then this silly bitch probably complained back then when Madge was doing that as well.

The only mistake Madonna made was mentioning her dirty name at all during that speech, thus giving her an "in" to this shit she's spouting.

 

Exactly.  Her words are just as discriminating, vile and obvious as the trolls on social media and close minded people that have a view on how woman should be and behave at certain ages.  Madonna is NOT hurting anyone,  is vibrant, continues with her career and does not run around shaming other woman.  She should be able to "age"  however she wants as should all women - and men too.  Life is all about choices and feminism is supposed to back up women having the freedom and choice to be who they want to be and dress how they want - at any age. 

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18 hours ago, Kim said:

Personally, I'm wondering when this pathetic, ageist old harridan is gonna start dressing like a 70 year old truck driver instead of a 20 something one. Get some respect Paglia! Dress like the old has-been you are, not the vital, modern intellectual force you never were. 

That people can't see that TELLING ANYONE how they should look or dress is wrong is beyond me. Take your Psych 101 and stick it.

Preach. 

These "thinkers"  get me to the nerves. They think they are God or something and sometimes they are wrong like any human being.  And her comments on ageing gracefully are VERY WRONG and if she were intelligent and humble she would accept in the future that she made a mistake.  Let's see if it happens. 

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AS IF Marlene wouldn't have done ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to keep her looks from the thirties or forties. Who is she kidding??? And she did a lot by the standards of her time. Including locking herself up and hiding from the world, sobbing every time she got confronted with her past beauty... yeah that's graceful aging...

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18 hours ago, Kim said:

The reason she's saying it, is to get over-reactive people to....overreact about her words. 

She knows fine well that the REAL problem is that women are still not allowed to age however they CHOOSE to age.  Instead of challenging that, instead of getting angered about the "put it away Grandma" and "eeeew she's soooo old" shit coming from not only social media, not only mainstream media, but her very own ageing "fans", this worthless woman-hater takes the easy route and joins in, while pretending she's not. It's all Madonna's FAULT she doesn't put on a cardigan and play lady of the manor. But then this silly bitch probably complained back then when Madge was doing that as well.

The only mistake Madonna made was mentioning her dirty name at all during that speech, thus giving her an "in" to this shit she's spouting.

 

I agree with you 100%. Thank you. 

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3 hours ago, Lolo said:

AS IF Marlene wouldn't have done ANYTHING and EVERYTHING to keep her looks from the thirties or forties. Who is she kidding??? And she did a lot by the standards of her time. Including locking herself up and hiding from the world, sobbing every time she got confronted with her past beauty... yeah that's graceful aging...

Yes.  Just the mere fact that this stupid "thinker" agrees with the behaviour of Dietrich... She should be celebrating that nowadays women don't hide and instead do what they want as if they were men. 

Flush 

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Dietrich hid away in her flat on avenue Montaigne and was very bitter. When she died they found out tons of magazines with hand written annotations on other celebrities like this one on Meryl Streep

Camille Paglia is just somebody who wanted to be a great cultural and social figure but since she does not have the skills to be an artist she resumed to being a commentator not estranged from any troll on Twitter except she does it in more than 140 characters. She can go after Gloria Steinem all she wants she'll never take her place or have the same place as her in the history of feminism hence why she's reduced to write for tabloids which destroys any valid argument she may have.

tumblr_lujkbuK1Se1qep1sno1_400.png

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On 12/27/2016 at 9:21 AM, Pud Whacker said:

LEARN

 

Very interesting way of thinking: although I disagree with certain things like accepting open homosexuality being a sign of decay of Western civilization. Northern Europe has always been accepting of homosexuality and they are still the most developed countries in the world. Its just that it takes a very honest society to be accepting while most of the less developed/uncivillized societies are dishonest, explaining its dishonesty with moral values etc.

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Guest Pud Whacker
3 hours ago, elijah said:

Uou! No way! She looks in her 50ties! What a queen!

Truly a marvel.  she worked and toured the world until she couldn't any longer and then went into seclusion in her 80's to keep the LEGEND & MYSTIQUE alive.  she didnt want to ever plague the image of DIETRICH. even then she had Maximilian Schell do a fabulous documentary on her that was nominated for an Oscar called Marlene.  Her final appearance in film was David Bowie's Just a Gigolo in 1979, she was 78 years old. 

she died at 90 years old. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

and again.. around 4 minutes (this is from 2016) paglia gives credit to madonna. I disagree with the article she wrote recently as a response to madonna, but then again I also disagreed with madonna name dropping paglia. I love that she says women should express their sexuality if they want to, they have all the freedom now, but they also have to be responsible and be able to defend themselves, stand up for themselves.. not be victims

 

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Guest Pud Whacker
On 1/27/2017 at 2:42 PM, Nikki said:

and again.. around 4 minutes (this is from 2016) paglia gives credit to madonna. I disagree with the article she wrote recently as a response to madonna, but then again I also disagreed with madonna name dropping paglia. I love that she says women should express their sexuality if they want to, they have all the freedom now, but they also have to be responsible and be able to defend themselves, stand up for themselves.. not be victims

 

how can ANYONE WITH A FREE THINKING MIND AND INDIVIDUAL THOUGHT not find this to be TRUTH? 

these are truth seekers.  not brainwashed facebookers repeating after some pathetic meme. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I get she 'expected' more of Madonna as a role model for aging women. I mean it worked for Camille as for everyone else, she projected so much onto Madonna, after all that's what stars are for, aren't they? Now she's disappointed Madonna won't fulfill  what she was hoping for, but that's no reason to put her down. She still has Helen and Judy and Jessica and Meryl and all the other gracefully aging dames of the entertainment industry, no point in bashing Madonna because she feels betrayed of what was only her projection and wishful thinking. 

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Camille breaks it down and she tells the truth.  She tells some women what they don't want to hear and gets criticized for it.  I think we can guess who those some women are. 

 

 

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