Failed Military Coup In Turkey And Aftermath

[spazz]

The american forces in the american military base in Turkey helped erdogan actually they shut down heliocopter belongs to the turkish army.

[spazz]

by the way, recently the opposition media was busy with Erdo's fake university diploma.

according to some sources he doesnt have a uni degree and to be a president, uni degree is a must.

...

this opposition is very american styled not a nationalist secular movement it is just like we had Mohamed ElBaradei a spy which america created to be a liberal wing in Egypt who sees muslim brotherhood politicians with different views not murders.

[GOD]

When I was in Iran the Iranians told me "What the world is going to when Turkey gets more and more islamised and Iran more secular and westernised". And its true.

It's all about who obeys the West. I mean, if Iran started to kiss ass US you'd see the changes towards Iran.

[Nessie]

Hitler would be very proud of Erdogan

[BrendanT1993]

Turkey and UK - comparisons in democratic practices

The recent failed coup in Turkey against the democratically elected President (odious though he may be) and his government stimulates the thought of when is it appropriate and valid to overturn the will of the people by armed insurrection?

The recent Referendum in the UK, with an unexpected and, in my personal view, an undesirable result raises some of the same doubts about the limitations in democratic processes. Talks of a rerunning of the Referendum are a denial of the right of the people to make important and constitutional decisions usually made their parliamentary representatives, unless it can be argued that there are strong and cogent reasons for such a rerunning of the poll. Some of those reasons might be the realisation that the Union will be at risk and that the lived experience of life post poll is too painful to bear. There is another one, and that is that the original process was so badly planned and executed that the result might be declared null and void. An example of the bad planning was the failure by the government to authoritively explain to the public the possible pros and cons of leaving.

Back to Turkey, a very different and difficult place, democracy, even as they understand it, is at considerable risk. In the past, the army has stepped in to curb the excesses of previous dictators. In this instance, they rather timed and planned it badly, but Erdogan does run the risk that at some stage the army may step. As against this, the challenges to Turkey, internally and externally are greater than they ever have been, and an astute politician like Erdogan will play these for all they're worth, to his advantage of course, for with men like him, survival, power, control, money and self interest reign supreme.

[spazz]

BREAKING!

Large explosion hits the capital Ankara

https://www.rt.com/shortcode/7joe/

[XXL]

[LSD]

Over 12,000 teachers have been purged following the purge of 1/3 of the country's judges.

[XXL]

Over 12,000 teachers have been purged following the purge of 1/3 of the country's judges.

It's obvious he's compiled these lists a while ago. The whole thing looks poorly staged start to finish. Now he's demanding the US extradite a Turkish cleric who is living in Pennsylvania in exile. It looks like Turkey is realigning with Putin, Assad and ironically Israel

Putin is also cosy with Israel now when Obama said EAT IT to Netanyauh. Erdogan said he refuses to rule out death penalty for traitors. And now NATO and the EU are telling him Turkey might be forced out of NATO and never admitted into the EU. The alliances over the matter of ISIS and the Syrian crisis are clearly changing

[elijah]

Erdogan said he refuses to rule out death penalty for traitors.

Even if they reinstall death penalty it won't apply to the people in the coup, because one of the principle in criminal law is that it can not apply retroactively (you can't punish a criminal with a punishment that was not prescribed for the crime you committed at the time you committed it). If this principle is not respected its a grieve disrespect to the concept of the rule of law. Then Turkey can say bye bye to EU and NATO indeed.

[Nessie]

It's obvious he's compiled these lists a while ago. The whole thing looks poorly staged start to finish. Now he's demanding the US extradite a Turkish cleric who is living in Pennsylvania in exile. It looks like Turkey is realigning with Putin, Assad and ironically Israel

Putin is also cosy with Israel now when Obama said EAT IT to Netanyauh. Erdogan said he refuses to rule out death penalty for traitors. And now NATO and the EU are telling him Turkey might be forced out of NATO and never admitted into the EU. The alliances over the matter of ISIS and the Syrian crisis are clearly changing

How he is realigning with Assad if he buys oil from ISIS?

[XXL]

How he is realigning with Assad if he buys oil from ISIS?

Because he crawled back to Putin. And Putin wants Assad to stay because if he goes NATO will have a permanent foothold at Russia's doorstep just like what Afghanistan has become, in what is also a strategic region for oil and for the Middle East issue in general

[karbatal]

Turkey benefits so much from the west that I doubt that the CUNT will be aligned much with Russia. Either one part or the other will destroy him. Sadly it works that way.

[elijah]

Turkey benefits so much from the west that I doubt that the CUNT will be aligned much with Russia. Either one part or the other will destroy him. Sadly it works that way.

I still can't believe the West would turn a blind eye to sacking 21 000 teachers, over 3000 judges and others in the thousands! He is beheading the Turkish intelligence class. With who would he switch them? Are there even that many prepared people? He is the worst really.

[XXL]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36852080

Turkey coup attempt: State of emergency announced

Turkey's president has declared a state of emergency for three months following Friday night's failed coup. Recep Tayyip Erdogan said citizens should not have "the slightest concern with regards to democracy, rule of law, fundamental rights and freedoms". The state of emergency would protect those values from attacks against them, he said, in a speech in Ankara.

The president praised those who were killed fighting against the coup as "martyrs" The nation would "never forget the bravery and sacrifice of those who lost their lives", he said, describing "epics of heroic bravery throughout the night". Mr Erdogan said foreign nations should stay out of Turkish affairs, adding: "This nation has the right to determine our own destiny."

The president was speaking after holding meetings of Turkey's national security council and the cabinet in the capital. Earlier, Mr Erdogan warned of further arrests and suspensions to come as Turkish authorities continued to pursue those they believed responsible for the thwarted putsch - the supporters of the US-based Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen.

More than 50,000 state employees have been rounded up, sacked or suspended in the days since the coup attempt. On Wednesday, 99 top military officers were charged in connection with the events of the weekend. Officials continued to take action against university and school employees, shutting down educational establishments, banning foreign travel for academics and forcing university heads of faculty to resign.

Amnesty International described the authorities' actions as "a crackdown of exceptional proportions".

[XXL]

A quick BBC recap on the Syrian conflict showing how important Turkey is in this scenario

Pity they don't mention who's finding ISIS

[spazz]

he will bring back Turkey to the retarded Ottoman/Mamluk era. And the West wont stop him cause hes an american puppet.

[XXL]

He will bring back Turkey to the retarded Ottoman/Mamluk era.

And the West wont stop him cause hes an american puppet.

IKR

What's been going on in the world post 9/11 is disgraceful. The level of manipulation and deception is astounding. "It was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them". "And authority was given it over every tribe and a people and tongue and nation".

[XXL]

Turkey scrambles fighter jets after reported sighting of missing vessels

Turkish F-16 fighter jets scrambled on Wednesday to check reports that missing Turkish coastguard vessels had appeared in Greek waters in the Aegean Sea, Turkish military sources said.

They gave no further details. Some Turkish military hardware was seized and used in last weekend's failed coup in which more than 230 people were killed. Officials have said no military equipment remains unaccounted for.

Turkey's government and military General Staff say they are fully in control of the situation in the country but tensions remain high as the authorities purge tens of thousands of suspected coup supporters from state institutions, including in the armed forces.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-turkey-security-boats-idUSKCN1002C4

[elijah]

Gülen movement

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Gülen movement is a liberal Islamic transnational religious and social movement led by Turkish Islamic theologian and preacher Fethullah Gülen, who now resides in the United States.^[1] The movement has no official name but it is usually referred to as Hizmet ("the Service") by its followers and as Cemaat ("the Community/Assembly") by the broader public in Turkey. Its largest body is the Alliance for Shared Values. It is designated as a terrorist organisation by the Turkish Justice and Development Party (AKP) government, which refers to it as Gülenist Terrorist Organisation(Fethullahçı Terör Örgütü, FETÖ).^[2]

The movement has attracted supporters and critics in Turkey, Central Asia, and other parts of the world. It is active in education with private schools and universities in over 180 countries as well as many American charter schools operated by followers.^[3][4] The movement denies that the charter schools have a direct affiliation.^[5] It has initiated forums for interfaith dialogue. It has substantial investments in media, finance, and for-profit health clinics.^[6][7] Some have praised the movement as a pacifist, modern-oriented version of Islam, and as an alternative to more extreme schools of Islam such as Salafism.^[8]

After the 2013 corruption investigations in Turkey into alleged corrupt practices by several bureaucrats, ministers, mayors, and family members of the ruling AKP of Turkey was uncovered,^[9][10]President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan blamed the movement for initiating^[11] the investigations as a result of a break in previously friendly relations.^[12] The group was considered to have influence on the Turkish police force and the judiciary. The movement is accused of attempting to overthrow the democratically elected Turkish government through a judicial coup by the use of corruption investigations. The government determined the movement to be a national security threat to Turkey and seized the group-owned newspaper (Zaman—the most circulated newspaper in Turkeybefore the seizure,^[13]) and several companies that have ties with the group. Investigations of the group are continuing into several accusations.^[14]

During the 2016 Turkish coup d'état attempt, President Erdoğan blamed the group for the coup upon his arrival in Istanbul. Fethullah Gülen strongly condemned the coup, and rejected claims of his involvement.^[15][16]

Contents [hide]

• 1Description and membership
• 2Activities
  • 2.1Schools
  • 2.2Dialogue
  • 2.3Media
  • 2.4Humanitarian aid
  • 2.5Professional associations
• 3Criticism
  • 3.1In Turkey
  • 3.2Allegations of cult-like behavior
  • 3.3In the US
• 4Political involvement
  • 4.12013 corruption scandal
  • 4.22014–15 crackdown
• 5History
• 6See also
• 7References
• 8External links

Description and membership[edit]

The movement has been characterized as a "moderate blend of Islam."^[17][18] Gülen and the Gülen movement are technology-friendly, work within current market and commerce structures, and are savvy users of modern communications and public relations. It fashions itself as a modern Ottoman after much reverence to the ideals of that era.^[19] Within Turkey the Gülen movement keeps its distance from established Islamic political parties.^[20]

Sources state that the Gülen movement is vying to be recognized as the world's leading Muslim network, one that is more reasonable than many of its rivals.^[21] The movement builds on the activities of Fethullah Gülen, who has won praise from non-Muslim quarters for his advocacy of science, interfaith dialogue, and multi-party democracy. It has earned praise as "the world's most global movement."^[22]

The exact number of supporters of the Gülen movement is not known as the movement has no official membership rolls; estimates vary from 1 million to 8 million.^[23][24][25] The membership of the movement consists primarily of students, teachers, businessmen, academics, journalists and other professionals.^[7] Its members have founded schools, universities, an employers' association, charities, real estate trusts, student organizations, radio and television stations, and newspapers.^[24]

The movement's structure has been described as a flexible organizational network.^[26] Movement schools and businesses organize locally and link themselves into informal networks.^[27] The Gülen movement works within the given structures of modern secular states; it encourages affiliated members to maximize the opportunities those countries afford rather than engaging in subversive activities.^[28] In the words of the leader himself and the title of a cornerstone of his philosophy, Gülen promotes "an Ottoman Empire of the Mind"^[29]

Critics have complained that members of the Gülen movement are overly compliant to the directions from its leaders.^[30] The movement has been accused of being "missionary" in intent, organizing in clandestine ways, or aiming for political power.^[31]

Activities[edit] Schools[edit]

Main article: Gülen movement schools

The movement is active in education (kindergarten–university) as well as civic opportunities in other areas such as for interfaith dialogue, humanitarian aid, media, finance, and health.^[6]

Most Gülen Movement schools are private; its educational footprint extends to over 160 countries. In 2009 it was estimated that members of the Gülen Movement run schools in which more than two million students receive education.^[32] Estimates of the number of schools and educational institutions vary widely; it appears there are about 300 Gülen Movement schools in Turkey and over 1,000 schools worldwide.^[33][34]

Beyond the borders of Turkey, many Gülen schools can be found in countries with large populations of people of Turkish descent. Gülen schools in predominantly non-Turkish Muslim countries provide families with an alternative to madrasa education. In 2011 it was estimated that in the United States, stretched over 25 states, mostly concentrated in urban centers, there are about 120 educational institutions including charter schools operated by participants of the Gülen Movement.^[3]

Gülen schools have received both criticism and praise.^[35]

Dialogue[edit]

Gülen and Pope John Paul II

The movement's avowal of interfaith dialogue grew out of Gülen's personal engagement in interfaith dialogue, largely inspired by the example of one of his influences, Said Nursi. Gülen has met with leaders of other religions, including Pope John Paul II, the Greek Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew I, and Israeli Sephardic Head Rabbi Eliyahu Bakshi-Doron.^[36] Gülen advocates cooperation between followers of different religions as well as those practicing different forms of Islam (such as Sunnism or Alevism).

Gülen's call for interfaith dialogue has influenced three generations of movement followers.^[35]

Gülen movement participants have founded a number of institutions across the World that promote interfaith and intercultural dialogue activities. Notable among these are the Journalists and Writers Foundation in Istanbul, the Rumi Forum in Washington and the Indialogue Foundation in New Delhi.

Media[edit]

Movement participants have set up a number of media organizations to promote its core values such as love, tolerance, hope, dialogue, activism, mutual acceptance and respect. These media organs include TV stations (Samanyolu TV, Mehtap TV), (Ebru TV) (English), the newspapers Zaman, Today's Zaman (English), magazines and journals in Turkish like Aksiyon, Sızıntı, Yeni Ümit, The Fountain Magazine (English), Hira (Arabic), The International Cihan News Agency and the radio station Burç FM (tr).

Humanitarian aid[edit]

The movement runs charity and humanitarian aid organizations which are transnationally active. The leading one among them is the Istanbul-based Kimse Yok Mu Association (KYM). KYM organizes charity campaigns to help those in need in different parts of the world. Like any other activities of the Gülen-movement, KYM runs local projects responding to specific needs. KYM holds UN Ecosoc Special status.

Another charity organization Embrace Relief was established in NJ, US and is active in the Americas, Asia and Africa.

Professional associations[edit]

While being both praised and criticized for being market friendly, the Gülen movement has established various professional associations and business networks. Among them Istanbul based TUSKON is the major non-profit business confederation which claims to promote economic solutions as well as social and political ones. Another one called TUCSIAD is based in China, in addition to DTIK's Asia-Pacific Group which supports the Gülen movement outside of Turkey in Chinain the hope of influencing Turkish politics from the outside.

Criticism[edit]

Fethullah Gülen's and the Gülen movement's views and practices have been discussed in international conferences. In October 2007 in London a conference was sponsored by the University of Birmingham, the Dialogue Society, the Irish School of Ecumenics, Leeds Metropolitan University, the London Middle East Institute, the Middle East Institute and the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London.^[37]Niagara Foundation of Chicago, together with several academic institutions, organized "The Gülen Movement: Paradigms, Projects and Aspirations" conference, which was held at University of Chicago on 11–13 Nov 2010.^[38]

In Turkey[edit]

In Turkey, the current president, Erdoğan, and the AKP (the ruling party of Turkey) have targeted the movement since December 2013. Immediately after the corruption allegations involving the President's son and sons of four ministers, the government subjugated the judiciary, media and civil society which were critical of the government's authoritarian trend in recent years.^[39][40][41] After the corruption allegations surfaced, Erdogan labelled it as a civilian coup against his government. Since then, Erdogan has shuffled, dismissed or jailed hundreds of police officers, judges, prosecutors and journalists in the name of fighting against a "Parallel State" within the Turkish state. Turkish government took over Zaman Daily, Turkey's largest newspaper, on 4 March 2016. Turkish police entered the Zaman's headquarters by force and fired tear gas at the protesting journalists and civilians. Hundreds of protestors were injured.^[42][43] In his efforts to eradicate the movement within Turkey, Erdogan and the AKP government has since identified the movement as the Gulenist Terror Organisation (FETO) by Turkish officials, although there is no court ruling.^[44]The Erdogan regime has also been targeting individuals and businessmen who have supported the movement's organizations and activities.

Allegations of cult-like behavior[edit]

Some commentators have been wary of alleged cult-like aspects of the organization.^[45]

Beginning in 2008, the Dutch government investigated the movement's activities in the Netherlands in response to questions from parliament. The first two investigations, performed by the AIVD, concluded that the movement did not form a breeding ground for radicalism and the AIVD found no indications that the movement worked against integration or that it was involved in terrorism or religious radicalization. A further academic study sketched a portrait of a socially conservative, inwardly directed movement with an opaque organizational structure, but noted that its members tend to be highly successful in society and thus form no threat to integration. ^[46]

In the US[edit]

Taking into account that charter schools managed by Gülen followers attract considerable^{[clarification needed]} public funding, the Philadelphia Inquirer ran a story on 20 March 2011, entitled “U.S. charter-school network with Turkish link draws federal attention”, in which it was suggested that certain schools had not been acting in the best interest of the public.^[4] The article describes concerns over whether the Gülen charter schools provide adequate and equal education, funded by American taxpayers, and whether using staffers employed under the H1B visa program might be misusing taxpayer money.^[47]

In 2016, an email revealed during the Hillary Clinton email controversy indicated that Gülen follower Gökhan Özkök had had direct access to Clinton’s staff member Huma Abedin, and asked for a 15-minute meeting for Ekmeleddin İhsanoğlu (an ally of Gülen who lost to Erdoğan in 2014) with President Obama in 2009. The meeting with Obama took place in Istanbul, several days after the email. Gülen followers have reportedly donated between $500,000 and $1 million to the Clinton Foundation.^[48]

Political involvement[edit]

Questions have arisen about the Gülen movement's possible involvement in the ongoing Ergenekon investigation,^[49] which critics have characterized as "a pretext" by the government "to neutralize dissidents" in Turkey.^[50] In March 2011, seven Turkish journalists were arrested, including Ahmet Şık, who had been writing a book, "Imamin Ordusu" (The Imam's Army),^[51] which alleges that the Gülen movement has infiltrated the country's security forces. As Şık was taken into police custody, he shouted, "Whoever touches it [the movement] gets burned!".^[52] Upon his arrest, drafts of the book were confiscated and its possession was banned. Şık has also been charged with being part of the alleged Ergenekon plot, despite being an investigator of the plot before his arrest.^[53]

In a reply, Abdullah Bozkurt, from the Gülen movement newspaper Today's Zaman, accused Ahmet Şık of not being "an investigative journalist" conducting "independent research," but of hatching "a plot designed and put into action by the terrorist network itself."^[54]

According to Gareth H. Jenkins, a Senior Fellow of the Central Asia-Caucasus Institute & Silk Road Studies Joint Center at Johns Hopkins University:

From the outset, the pro-AKP media, particularly the newspapers and television channels run by the Gülen Movement such as

Zaman

,

Today's Zaman

and Samanyolu TV, have vigorously supported the Ergenekon investigation. This has included the illegal publication of "evidence" collected by the investigators before it has been presented in court, misrepresentations and distortions of the content of the indictments and smear campaigns against both the accused and anyone who questions the conduct of the investigations.

There have long been allegations that not only the media coverage but also the Ergenekon investigation itself is being run by Gülen's supporters. In August 2010, Hanefi Avcı, a right-wing police chief who had once been sympathetic to the Gülen Movement, published a book in which he alleged that a network of Gülen's supporters in the police were manipulating judicial processes and fixing internal appointments and promotions. On September 28, 2010, two days before he was due to give a press conference to present documentary evidence to support his allegations, Avcı was arrested and charged with membership of an extremist leftist organization. On March 14, 2011, Avcı was also formally charged with being a member of the alleged Ergenekon gang.

[49]

The Gülen movement has also been implicated in what both Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan as well as the opposition Republican People's Party (CHP) have said were illegal court decisions against members of the Turkish military, including many during the Ergenekon investigation.^[55]

2013 corruption scandal[edit]

Main article: 2013 corruption scandal in Turkey

On 17 December 2013, an investigation into alleged corrupt practices by several bureaucrats, ministers, mayors, and family members of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) of Turkey was uncovered, resulting in widespread protests and calls for the resignation of the government led by Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.^[9][10] Due to the high level of political influence by the Gülen movement in Turkey, it is rumored to be facilitated by the movement's influence on the Turkish police force and the judiciary,^[11] the investigation was considered to be a result of a break in previously friendly relations between the Islamist-rooted government and the movement.^[12]

2014–15 crackdown[edit]

On 14 December 2014 Turkish police arrested more than two dozen senior journalists and media executives connected with the Gülen movement on various charges.

A statement by the US State Department cautioned Turkey not to violate its "own democratic foundations" while drawing attention to raids against media outlets "openly critical of the current Turkish government."^[56][57]

EU foreign affairs chief Federica Mogherini and EU Enlargement Commissioner Johannes Hahn said that the arrests went "against European values" and "are incompatible with the freedom of media, which is a core principle of democracy".^[58]

On 20 January 2015, Turkish police launched raids in Ankara and three other cities, detaining some 20 people suspected of illegally eavesdropping on President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and other senior officials. The suspects are linked to Turkey's telecommunications authority and to its scientific and technological research center TUBITAK. Local media said the move was aimed at the "parallel structure" — the term Erdogan uses to refer to Gülen's supporters in the judiciary, police and other institutions.^[59]

History[edit]

• 1941 – Fethullah Gülen is born in Korucuk, near Erzurum, Turkey
• 1950s – Gülen's first meeting with people from the Nur Movement^[60]
• 1960 – death of Said Nursî^[61]
• 1960s – Gülen begins attracting disciples while a state preacher in Izmir^{[citation needed]}
• 1971 – Gülen arrested for an alleged crime of organizing and/or participating in activities to change the basis of the constitutional system but is released seven months later.^{[citation needed]}
• late 1970s – Gülen establishes himself independently of other Nurju organizations; first ışık evleri ("houses of light," i.e., student residences)^{[citation needed]}established^{[citation needed]}
• 1978 – First dershane (study center for university exams) opens^{[citation needed]}
• 1979 – Science journal Sızıntı begins publication^[62]
• 1981 – Gülen retires^{[citation needed]}
• 1982 – First "Gülen school" opens.^[63]
• 1986 – Zaman, a top selling daily newspaper in Turkey,^[64] begins publication
• 1988–1991 – Gülen gives lectures in Istanbul and Izmir^{[citation needed]}
• 1991 – Fall of Soviet Union permits establishment of Gülen schools in Central Asia^{[citation needed]}
• 1994 – The (Turkish) Journalists and Writers Foundation (Gazeteciler ve Yazarlar Vakfi), with Gülen as honorary president^[65]
• 1996 – Creation of Asya Finans (investment bank aimed at former Soviet Central Asia), with Tansu Çiller as an investor^{[citation needed]}
• 1998 – Gülen meets with Pope John Paul II in the Vatican^[66][67]
• 1999 – Gülen movement schools in Tashkent closed by Uzbekistan government after a rift between Turkish and Uzbek governments^{[citation needed]}
• 1999 – Gülen emigrates to Pennsylvania after the Turkish government charges him with attempting to set up an Islamist state in Turkey^[9]
• 2004 – Establishment of Niagara Foundation^{[68][not in citation given]}
• 2004 – Establishment of Kimse Yok Mu (Is Anybody There?), a charitable organization;^[69] 2010, receives "special" NGO status with United Nations Department of Economic and Social Affairs.^[70]
• 2005 – Establishment of TUSKON (Turkish Confederation of Businessmen and Industrialists)^[71]
• 2012 – Journalists and Writers Foundation (Gazeteciler ve Yazarlar Vakfi) receives "general consultative status" as a Non-Governmental Organization of the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) of the United Nations^[72]

[spazz]

[Guest]

This is insane.

[Camacho]

From Amnesty International

TURKEY: INDEPENDENT MONITORS MUST BE ALLOWED TO ACCESS DETAINEES AMID TORTURE ALLEGATIONS: http://amn.st/6182BI4AY

[Camacho]

https://twitter.com/mahirzeynalov/status/758370418369630208

Turkey shuts down 18 TV channels, 3 news wires, 23 radio channels, 45 newspapers and 15 news magazines and arrested 30 journalists today.

[elijah]

Horrible! Till when??? EU accession talks have to stop.

[GOD]

There is no getting rid of him now.

[Daphna26]

There is no getting rid of him now.

True.

[Nessie]

he will bring back Turkey to the retarded Ottoman/Mamluk era. And the West wont stop him cause hes an american puppet.

Only if Erdogan take over that NATO base and loot the american nukes then we will see the West really react and suddenly we will hear about democracy values, regime change, dictatorship and all that usual american talk. Until that happens there won't be a word about it.

[karbatal]

That image, hahaha. Who was the one who said here he was copying Madonna? hahahaha

[karbatal]

Horrible! Till when??? EU accession talks have to stop.

The only reason they talk about it periodically is because part of the European policy of certain countries is to spread EU bundaries, so the problems are further and further away from the center of the continent. Turkey being part of the EU would mean that the problematic countries are even further away.

that's my opinion.