Alton Sterling, Philando Castile, police shootings. :(

[XXL]

Before looking at fear or racism in the US best to start looking at the not so subtle forms of nationalism, elitism, separatism, xenophobia, building walls, and racism in our own countries. And the last five years or so have been alarming proof of that.

Lecturing other countries on issues nobody in Europe is immune from doesn't help anybody.

[Guest]

Sadly, there is a legitimate population of hardcore racists that support Trump & his anti-Mexican stance.

& no shade, but if MLK was living, he wouldn't have co-signed MJ's decision to become a white woman

Michael was nuts and what he did to his appearance was weird but it's no different to skin bleach, weaves and fattening pills. I don't think he was embarassed by his race or anything. I just think he wanted to look less human. As trite as they sound now songslike black or white had a kind of big cultural impact at the time. For some reason moreso than Vogue but that's another story.

[Guest]

Before looking at fear or racism in the US best to start looking at the not so subtle forms of nationalism, elitism, separationitisn, xenophobia, building walls, and racism in our own countries.

Lecturing other countries on issues nobody in Europe is immune from doesn't help anybody.

Could you be any more passive aggressive? At this point it's just ridiculous. Do you really think I think racism is good from any person in any country on any planet? Of course I don't...so think before casting (grossly incorrect) assertions.

[XXL]

Once again you twist what I said to suit your agenda. I didn't say you said racism is good. It's ridiculous when you come into this thread with patronising statements such as "America why don't you start a revolution, why can't u see folks?" "why do you have people like Trump in the first place?" when we have his slightly more polished equivalents but uttering the same populistic bullshit in the LePens, Salvinis and Farages of Europe. And the Brexit result came on the heel of a hijacked campaign, shamelessly and mostly played on the immigration card. With everyone involved on the LEAVE front (and not just in Farage's party but also among people currently in government) washing their hands clean of the responsibilities that come with it, days if not moments after the fact.

[Ai Papi Si.]

Once again you twist what I said to suit your agenda. I didn't say you said racism is good. It's ridiculous when you come into this thread with patronising statements such as "America why don't you start a revolution, why can't u see folks?" "why do you have people like Trump in the first place?" when we have his slightly more polished equivalents but uttering the same populistic bullshit in the LePens, Salvinis and Farages of Europe. And the Brexit result came on the heel of a hijacked campaign, shamelessly and mostly played on the immigration card. With everyone involved on the LEAVE front washing their hands clean of the responsibilities that come with it, days if not moments after the fact.

It's rare that I agree with XXL but yes this is exactly what I meant.

Like I said it's me trying to goad you into a mudslinging-fest GU, I'm just pointing out that you come across really awkward and yes, kinda patronizing when you speak on American politics. Lately more than ever. It's a mild irritant but an irritant nonetheless.

[Guest]

Once again you twist what I said to suit your agenda. I didn't say you said racism is good. It's ridiculous when you come into this thread with patronising statements such as "America why don't you start a revolution, why can't u see folks?" "why do you have people like Trump in the first place?" when we have his slightly more polished equivalents but uttering the same populistic bullshit in the LePens, Salvinis and Farages of Europe. And the Brexit result came on the heel of a hijacked campaign, shamelessly and mostly played on the immigration card. With everyone involved on the LEAVE front (and not just in Farage's party but also among people currently in government) washing their hands clean of the responsibilities that come with it, days if not moments after the fact.

No matter how hard you try I won't be 'discussing' Brexit with you. I can tell you're thirsty but there's no Brexit juice here. Sorry. What did Madonna say in TSP? I'm only saying something very similar and it has nothing to do with anything other than a reaction of the sadness I feel for the people living it. So...move along.

[Guest]

It's rare that I agree with XXL but yes this is exactly what I meant.

Like I said it's me trying to goad you into a mudslinging-fest GU

A Freudian slip? You're so bent out of shape about me and quite frankly I have no clue why but ok.

[Ai Papi Si.]

A Freudian slip? You're so bent out of shape about me and quite frankly I have no clue why but ok.

No I'm actually not trynna fight with you.

And idk... the bent outta shape thing, youre always channeling that defense that it's others with the issue, maybe just once consider that you often mouth off on things you don't know much about and people are over it. A thought.

[Guest]

No I'm actually not trynna fight with you.

And idk... the bent outta shape thing, youre always channeling that defense that it's others with the issue, maybe just once consider that you often mouth off on things you don't know much about and people are over it. A thought.

People are getting shot. I think it's wrong. What more is there to know? I think if somebody has an issue with me thinking that guns should be banned for the safety of the majority then it IS they that have the issue. What I'm saying isn't exactly out there. It's basic logic. You have a point to prove to/with me and so you overly scrutinise pretty much everything I say. I think you should just let it go for your own sake more than anything. At the end of the day...why care?

[Ai Papi Si.]

What more is there to know? I think if somebody has an issue with me thinking that guns should be banned for the safety of the majority then it IS they that have the issue

yeah i think youre missing the point lol, idk how since it was so clearly laid out by myself/Isaac/XXL but whatever

read what XXL said again if you wanna know what i mean, I'm too horny and bored to reiterate everything for you again so i'll just leave it at that

[Guest Rachelle of London]

Before looking at fear or racism in the US best to start looking at the not so subtle forms of nationalism, elitism, separatism, xenophobia, building walls, and racism in our own countries. And the last five years or so have been alarming proof of that.

Lecturing other countries on issues nobody in Europe is immune from doesn't help anybody.

Maybe you should follow your own advice when discussing other nations then. You seem to lecture everyone about everything in their own countries yourself.

The situation that is going on in the US is atrocious. Being European does not mean you don't have the right to discuss it.

If being stopped by the police for a broken indicator light and being shot dead doesn't make others live in fear. What will?

[Skin]

Ai Papi Si., on 13 Jul 2016 - 6:05 PM, said:Ai Papi Si., on 13 Jul 2016 - 6:05 PM, said:

Maybe he's a target for the gays because he marginalized us for his entire presidency. Maybe he's a target for a lot of people because forced the country into a phoney war, fucked up a natural disaster, waited until it was too late to deal with a economic blowup, etc.

Republicans are a target for a lot of people. I mean they've spent decades lurching from catastrophe from catastrophe and they always seem to have at least a supporting role in causing them. Democrats aren't angels but their hands are far cleaner when it comes to governing. I'm sorry but that's just the tea.

So EAT IT!!

And I have no clue when gun laws will change in this country. Yes it is horrifying to watch it all go down. Personally I am not for banning all guns. If people want a simple gun because they are living in such fear that they MUST have it, then by all means. Or if they want something to go hunting with. Have at it. We do have the 2nd Amendment. But at the same time it was written at a time when muskets were being used for Christ sake. A gun that fired one damn shot and took 20 seconds or more to reload.....So obviously our Founders couldn't have envisioned the weapons of mass destruction guns would turn into, so this alone is common sense logic that these absurd assault rifles should have NO place in our society.

The sad fact is too many people in Congress (at least at this given time) or owned by the NRA. Nothing will change unless we boot these shitheads out and replace them.

Most gun nuts are just so fearful that one day our government will turn against us and they will need these crazy ass weapons for protection. A. No matter how many assault rifles you own, if our government with its unlimited arsenal of weapons and bombs wants to open a can of whoop ass on us citizens guess what? We don't stand a damn chance no matter how many guns we have. Lets get real. And B. I love how they act like they need these guns if the government and authority gets out of control, but we see on the news almost everyday how much authority in this country IS out of control already!!!! I guess because it's black people getting shot dead for no reason at all they could give two shits about it though. Same with our over militarized police all over this country. This should alarm the hell out of the people soooooo scared of the government taking over, but you never hear a peep about this from them. Instead most of them blindly say "BLUE LIVES MATTER!!!!!!!!!" and look the other way.

Again there is this weird cognitive dissonance going on with them.

[Skin]

Also we need change on two fronts. Not just stricter gun laws, but we need a total and complete overhaul in our mental healthcare system because what we have now is a complete disaster and embarrassment. It's sadly just not something that is taken seriously enough.

[Ai Papi Si.]

Maybe you should follow your own advice when discussing other nations then. You seem to lecture everyone about everything in their own countries yourself.

The situation that is going on in the US is atrocious. Being European does not mean you don't have the right to discuss it.

If being stopped by the police for a broken indicator light and being shot dead doesn't make others live in fear. What will?

I'm not asking this in a demeaning or dismissive way - you know I think youre fab. But why are you/GU/whoever prescribing a reaction or mood for Americans to be in? We're dealing with the tragedies and situations in our own way. We are all individuals with our own brains and just because we refuse to stop living our lives and living bravely and defiantly doesn't pigeonhole any of us as complacent or indifferent. Living in fear is NOT who I am.

[Guest Rachelle of London]

I'm not asking this in a demeaning or dismissive way - you know I think youre fab. But why are you/GU/whoever prescribing a reaction or mood for Americans to be in? We're dealing with the tragedies and situations in our own way. We are all individuals with our own brains and just because we refuse to stop living our lives and living bravely and defiantly doesn't pigeonhole any of us as complacent or indifferent. Living in fear is NOT who I am.

Huh? I'm not prescribing anything.

As someone with an American father and more family members in the states then here in Europe I am fearful for my loved ones. I never said Americans should live in fear but I think it's disgusting what is going on over there. When the Orlando shooting happened even more so as with the legalisation of gay marriage not too long ago it seemed that there was progression, only for that to be grounded to a halt because of mad closet case that had access to military style guns.

If you're not fearful good for you. But I'm fearful for the thousands of innocent people being killed due to stupid gun laws.

[VogueMusic]

I don't want to turn this into a Laganja Estranja-esque GU bashing, BUT you're dead wrong. You're familiar with Toni Morrison, James Baldwin, MLK, Dr. Joy Degruy? People have been calling out injustice in this country for decades. Non-white citizens in the US didn't acquire equal civil liberties JUST BECAUSE those in power felt generous... people marched for their rights. Lives were lost. Minds were broadened. I think you're simplifying the issue as if we don't give a damn. We surely do, but change takes time.

I can't speak for all Americans, but I can assure you that most people of color (especially Black Folks) are NOT living in fear. There was a time where open racism was tolerated & legally protected; fear WAS the atmosphere at the time, but no more. The nation HAS progressed, but we still have to deal with the remnants of systematic oppression; we're living in AWARENESS, not fear. We stay woke.

The only people living in fear are the racists themselves cuz they're the ones that are scared of my black ass.

[VogueMusic]

Truth is, there ARE people fighting, and taking to the streets. That's why there's so much conflict on just that level. There's been more civil protest in the past few years than I can ever remember (not to mention using social media for good things like social justice awareness and organization)...so this idea that "people need to start a revolution"...uh, yeah, they are! And have been! It's happening...right now! That's what Black Lives Matter and other groups are all about. Even on the LGBT level. We all got to this point, in triumph and tragedy, because we fought for it. And we will continue to. That's the very opposite of 'living in fear'. Now, it's our politicians that need to get on board...and that will only happen once we vote out the obstructionist party (owned - lock, stock and barrel - by the NRA). Until then, on the political level, it's not going to change...yet.

[Ai Papi Si.]

Huh? I'm not prescribing anything.

As someone with an American father and more family members in the states then here in Europe I am fearful for my loved ones. I never said Americans should live in fear but I think it's disgusting what is going on over there. When the Orlando shooting happened even more so as with the legalisation of gay marriage not too long ago it seemed that there was progression, only for that to be grounded to a halt because of mad closet case that had access to military style guns.

If you're not fearful good for you. But I'm fearful for the thousands of innocent people being killed due to stupid gun laws.

I am a gay man from Orlando - 3 people I know were wounded in that massacre, 1 died. His name was Xavier Serrano.

That event rattled me so much that I didn't leave the house for 3 days. Those days I was on this forum, posting for the first time in a long time. Didnt really know what else to do, I was just paralyzed and didn't feel like there was much of anything to care about or be hopeful about. I was depressed. People from here reached out. You guys thought about me. It was an incredibly moving moment to know that oceans away, I was thought about.

This issue is as personal for me as it can get for someone who didn't directly witness it or had a family member pass from it. Pulse used to be a nightclub that represented the best of the city I live in. A positive, great place. So many memories. Now I drive past it and it's like seeing a ghost. I still feel empty.

I lived through the horror of that night in real time on Facebook the night it happened. Seeing the posts come in from people who escaped. It's haunted me since.

You think people like me don't know how sick our system is? If anyone knows, it's me. I knew it June 12 2016. But I knew it when San Bernardino happened. Charleston. Sandy Hook. Aurora. Virginia Tech.

You'll have to forgive me if I take issue with the way outsiders speak of what happened. This is directed at everyone. I am actually really fed up with the vigils and the grieving and the moments of silence and the rallies and all that shit. The calls from people who dont know me or where I live or who my friends are, from the comforts of countries who do not have this problem, always say the same thing ... "WAKE UP!! COME ON!! WHATS WRONG WITH YOU AMERICA?" It sounds insincere and automatically puts us in a position of having to answer for the blunders those in power have made. A history we had no part in, a culture we didnt help foster.

Cultural shifts in America take decades. I dont know what will change our gun laws. But to continually have fingers wagged at us by people who know so little about our political process is infuriating. I didn't egg on the lobbyists or the senators who are pals with the NRA. I don't hangout with gun toting white trash. I am who I am. I want to see things change. But asking me to protest in the streets or confront cops is easy when you're sitting behind the computer screen. Little do you know how personal this is for people like me who dealt with the carnage afterward. Romanticizing a late-1960s method of raising awareness and protests is ridiculous and irresponsible. Not all of us contribute and confront our challenges the same way.

Some Sandy Hook parents actually went on TV in the immediate aftermath of their very painful tragedy to help move forward gun legislation. Others quietly helped within their communities to restore some semblance of humanity. I keep my actions post-Orlando very much to myself. That's just the way it is.

It's one thing for me to go into threads like Brexit and talk about the economic challenges and have an open forum with citizens of the UK who are well informed on the issue. I am not from the UK. I learned a great deal from that thread. Quite different with stuff like this. When tragedies happen stateside, the last thing someone like me wants to read is a post laced with uncomfortable advice or tsk-tsking from someone who has never set foot here.

It's just the way it is for me. GU, Chelle, none of this is personal, none of this is me calling either of you out. I know you mean well, GU, and I know you care. But this is broader than a GU forum post and its everywhere, all over the internet, which is partially why I do not read ANY ARTICLES about Pulse anymore. I literally gloss over them. It's hard for people like me to read comments people who dont have this problem try to make sense of it or try to offer a pat on the back. It's like trying to console someone during a time of intense anxiety or heartbreak and say "come on! Just get yourself together."

Needless to say, it does not help.

[VogueMusic]

Also we need change on two fronts. Not just stricter gun laws, but we need a total and complete overhaul in our mental healthcare system because what we have now is a complete disaster and embarrassment. It's sadly just not something that is taken seriously enough.

And I have no clue when gun laws will change in this country. Yes it is horrifying to watch it all go down. Personally I am not for banning all guns. If people want a simple gun because they are living in such fear that they MUST have it, then by all means. Or if they want something to go hunting with. Have at it. We do have the 2nd Amendment. But at the same time it was written at a time when muskets were being used for Christ sake. A gun that fired one damn shot and took 20 seconds or more to reload.....So obviously our Founders couldn't have envisioned the weapons of mass destruction guns would turn into, so this alone is common sense logic that these absurd assault rifles should have NO place in our society.

The sad fact is too many people in Congress (at least at this given time) or owned by the NRA. Nothing will change unless we boot these shitheads out and replace them.

Most gun nuts are just so fearful that one day our government will turn against us and they will need these crazy ass weapons for protection. A. No matter how many assault rifles you own, if our government with its unlimited arsenal of weapons and bombs wants to open a can of whoop ass on us citizens guess what? We don't stand a damn chance no matter how many guns we have. Lets get real. And B. I love how they act like they need these guns if the government and authority gets out of control, but we see on the news almost everyday how much authority in this country IS out of control already!!!! I guess because it's black people getting shot dead for no reason at all they could give two shits about it though. Same with our over militarized police all over this country. This should alarm the hell out of the people soooooo scared of the government taking over, but you never hear a peep about this from them. Instead most of them blindly say "BLUE LIVES MATTER!!!!!!!!!" and look the other way.

Again there is this weird cognitive dissonance going on with them.

TRUTH.

And that last paragraph...oh, the irony. Nails it.

[Jaz]

im just here to tell you, if it was obama or hillary, people would be protecting them.

We all know that's true.

[Guest]

Huh? I'm not prescribing anything.

As someone with an American father and more family members in the states then here in Europe I am fearful for my loved ones. I never said Americans should live in fear but I think it's disgusting what is going on over there. When the Orlando shooting happened even more so as with the legalisation of gay marriage not too long ago it seemed that there was progression, only for that to be grounded to a halt because of mad closet case that had access to military style guns.

If you're not fearful good for you. But I'm fearful for the thousands of innocent people being killed due to stupid gun laws.

I know, right?

Maybe you should follow your own advice when discussing other nations then. You seem to lecture everyone about everything in their own countries yourself.

The situation that is going on in the US is atrocious. Being European does not mean you don't have the right to discuss it.

If being stopped by the police for a broken indicator light and being shot dead doesn't make others live in fear. What will?

I thought exactly the same but didn't bother speaking on it. The brexit thread has 544563433563 essays from XXL whereas the Italian train crash got five words. Irony huh?

[Guest Rachelle of London]

I know, right?

I thought exactly the same but didn't bother speaking on it. The brexit thread has 544563433563 essays from XXL whereas the Italian train crash got five words. Irony huh?

I just don't get the notion that if you're not from somewhere you have no right to discuss the matter because your country does the same. That means none of us on this forum would be able to discuss anything. I find that thinking quite silly if you ask me. That awful Brexit thread is filled with mostly non British people posting their opinions meanwhile the British members are mocked for their opinions. Even Suedehead was told yesterday in there that his opinion was wrong followed by an essay on why. If that's the case. Practice what you preach.

[Guest]

I just don't get the notion that if you're not from somewhere you have no right to discuss the matter because your country does the same. That means none of us on this forum would be able to discuss anything. I find that thinking quite silly if you ask me. That awful Brexit thread is filled with mostly non British people posting their opinions meanwhile the British members are mocked for their opinions. Even Suedehead was told yesterday in there that his opinion was wrong followed by an essay on why. If that's the case. Practice what you preach.

Even funnier when you realise that some of the people doing that are the ones shouting ONE WORLD, ONE PEOPLE!

[XXL]

Maybe you should follow your own advice when discussing other nations then. You seem to lecture everyone about everything in their own countries yourself.

The situation that is going on in the US is atrocious. Being European does not mean you don't have the right to discuss it.

If being stopped by the police for a broken indicator light and being shot dead doesn't make others live in fear. What will?

Actually no. When I express an opinion I try to back it up with examples and do it without saying "why don't you folks do something about it" which is what GU does all the time in the American Election threads. It's like assuming nobody is doing anything about it and everybody is OK with any given problem. Change cannot happen overnight.

Another thing I didn't say: "being European doesn't mean you can't discuss US politics". So I rebuke your taking my own medicine statement. Isn't it you and GU laughing about "the British experts" in the Brexit thread, completely unprovoked? I assume to discuss something that affects 400m+ workers outside of the UK doesn't require to be a British expert either but your tone and jibes in that thread seems to indicate otherwise.

Fact is politicians who were in favour of LEAVE made fools of themselves the day after the result was announced and that is not a matter of opinion, it's factual in the global public eye.

One thing is saying there should be restricted access and more control on who actually gets to obtain a weapon. Which generally in European countries and Australia seems to be a given, as much as healthcare is. Totally agree with that. Glinda and Jazzyjan explained themselves eloquently on it in this thread.

Another is acting all "oh my God how can you have someone like Trump, my fellow American friends" as if right now we didn't have our own shitty demagogues in Europe as well, taking advantage of the fact that traditional parties are too busy looking after banks and corporations while the job market and the Real economy are treated shabbily.

Once again it's the attitude and tone to be annoying, coupled with the fact that the actual arguments and facts posted in this type if threads are deliberately ignored.

You can't act all butthurt about people making criticism about your country's choices or its politicians and then wade into other discussions/threads as if everything were perfect at home.

"Why are now people mean to the Brits", no they aren't criticising the choice per se, and in no way anybody was mean to British citizens in that thread, they are criticising what politicians have done in response. Nobody is throwing Brits under a bus. But the world is a two-way street. So if you can't address the discussion of what goes on in your backyard without being dismissive, don't act like people in other countries who may be going through similar issues are not doing anything about it and need you to encourage them otherwise.

And I didn't say the situation and racial tensions and police issues aren't atrocious in the US.

[Guest Rachelle of London]

i wasn't acting butt hurt about anything. What I was butt hurt about was YOU mocking my opinion then defending it by saying i lick the moderators asses. Like WTF. Then you tell us not to lecture people when 99% of your posts are lectures. Practice what you preach.

[XXL]

The brexit thread has 544563433563 essays from XXL whereas the Italian train crash got five words. Irony huh?

You're so predictable. Now using the train crash event to make another false point. I have talked on this forum about Italy's problems AD NAUSEAM. So don't even go there.

You write a lot here, often showing you don't know much about the subject and if someone says something different you twist what they are saying to once again evade the actual argument at hand and prove your "point". It's like an endless Merry Go Round. *back to owning my shyt* Bye

[XXL]

i wasn't acting butt hurt about anything. What I was butt hurt about was YOU mocking my opinion then defending it by saying i lick the moderators asses. Like WTF. Then you tell us not to lecture people when 99% of your posts are lectures. Practice what you preach.

Oh please you were posting The Sun Independence Day front cover and similar stuff. I wasn't mocking anyone's opinion. I was perhaps wondering what's so funny about it regardless of what anyone has voted for. And I respect those British voters who voted LEAVE just as much people can see and say this vote had nothing to do with the EU and all to do with internal British party politics, judging by its immediate aftermath.

And no my posts aren't lectures. Whatever.

[Guest Rachelle of London]

Oh please you were posting The Sun Independence Day front cover and similar stuff. I wasn't mocking anyone's opinion. I was perhaps wondering what's so funny about it regardless of what anyone has voted for. And I respect those British voters who voted LEAVE just as much people can see and say this vote had nothing to do with the EU and all to do with internal British party politics, judging by its immediate aftermath.

And no my posts aren't lectures. Whatever.

No I was not! I never posted nothing from The Sun. What are you on about?

I made a JOKE about hot dogs which was a continuation of another joke I had made in the food thread. Americans have hot dogs on Independence Day, get it. It was simply a joke. Then the OMG Britain is Burning Down Brigade started calling me a racist. Then I wasn't allowed back in the thread. Your drivel about me kissing the mods ass was hilarious because I was arguing with one of the mods at the time.

[Guest]

You're so predictable. Now using the train crash event to make another false point. I have talked on this forum about Italy's problems AD NAUSEAM. So don't even go there.

You write a lot here, often showing you don't know much about the subject and if someone says something different you twist what they are saying to once again evade the actual argument at hand and prove your "point". It's like an endless Merry Go Round. *back to owning my shyt* Bye

What are you even talking about? Pure nonsense and obviously hypocritical. You post so many essays that it's messing with your recollection of the truth. Chelle didn't post The Sun newspaper and celebrate independence. WTF?

[Guest]

No I was not! I never posted nothing from The Sun. What are you on about?

I made a JOKE about hot dogs which was a continuation of another joke I had made in the food thread. Americans have hot dogs on Independence Day, get it. It was simply a joke. Then the OMG Britain is Burning Down Brigade started calling me a racist. Then I wasn't allowed back in the thread. Your drivel about me kissing the mods ass was hilarious because I was arguing with one of the mods at the time.

Never known somebody to be called racist and evil because they made a VERY BRITISH joke about 'at least getting Hotdogs on our Independence day'.