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Popey Wopey says Christians should apologize to gays


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FROM CNN:

Aboard the Papal Plane (CNN)Pope Francis said Sunday that Christians owe apologies to gays and others who have been offended or exploited by the church, remarks that some Catholics hailed as a breakthrough in the church's tone toward homosexuality.

"I repeat what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: that they must not be discriminated against, that they must be respected and accompanied pastorally," Francis said at a press conference aboard the papal plane returning from Armenia.
"The Church must ask forgiveness for not behaving many times -- when I say the Church, I mean Christians! The Church is holy, we are sinners!"
As he often does during unscripted moments -- particularly papal news conferences -- the Pope spoke expansively, saying the church should seek forgiveness for a number of historical slights committed in its name.
Groundbreaking Moment
"I believe that the church not only should apologize to the person who is gay whom it has offended," he added, "but has to apologize to the poor, to exploited women, to children exploited for labor; it has to ask forgiveness for having blessed many weapons."
The Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and editor at large of America magazine, called the Pope's apology to gays and lesbians "a groundbreaking moment."
"While St. John Paul II apologized to several groups in 2000 -- the Jewish people, indigenous peoples, immigrants and women, among them -- no pope has ever come close to apologizing to the LGBT community. And the Pope is correct of course. First, because forgiveness is an essential part of the Christian life. And second, because no group feels more marginalized in the church today than LGBT people."
The Pope's comments came in response to a question about a German Cardinal who said the Catholic Church should apologize for being "very negative" about gays. The Pope was also asked whether Christians bear some blame for hatred toward the LGBT community, as horrifically demonstrated in the Orlando massacre at a gay night club that killed 49 people on June 12.
Repeating the teaching of the Catechism of the Catholic Church about respecting and not discriminating against gays, Pope Francis said that one could condemn certain behavior.
"One can condemn, but not for theological reasons, but for reasons of political behavior...Certain manifestations are a bit too offensive for others, no?
"But these are things that have nothing to do with the problem. The problem is a person that has a condition, that has good will and who seeks God, who are we to judge? And we must accompany them well."
'Immense Blessing'
Francis first uttered that rhetorical question -- Who am I to judge gay people? -- in 2013, also during a news conference on the papal plane. His comments were hailed as a breakthrough for a church that has historically condemned homosexuality, often in harsh terms. Francis has not changed church doctrine that calls homosexual acts sinful, but he has shown a more merciful approach to people on the margins, including gays and lesbians.
Francis DeBernardo, executive director of New Ways Ministry, a Catholic gay rights group, called the Pope's remarks "an immense blessing of healing."
"No pope has said more welcoming words to LGBT people than when Pope Francis today offered his recommendation that the Church -- indeed all Christians -- should apologize for the harm religious traditions have caused to LGBT people. The pope's statement was simple, yet powerful, and it fell from his lips so easily."
As is often the case, the Pope's press conference encompassed a number of controversial questions. Here are the Pope's answers about Brexit, former Pope Benedict XVI and why he used the word "genocide" to describe the murder of more than 1 million Armenians in the early 20th century.
Brexit
"For me, unity is always superior to conflict, but there are different forms of unity and also brotherhood. and here I come to the EU -- brotherhood is better than enmity or distance and bridges are better than walls.
"The step which the EU has to take to recover the strength of its roots is a step of creativity and healthy 'separation;' that is, to give more independence, more freedom to the countries of the EU, to think of another form of union, to be creative in jobs, in the economy..."
"There is something that is not working in that unwieldy union, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, let's try to jump-start things, to recreate .. today the two key words for the EU are creativity and fecundity."
Genocide
Pope Francis said that while Turkey has, "a right to protest," he has always used the word genocide, since his time in Argentina, and again last year quoting John Paul II so "it would have sounded very strange," he said, not to use it again.
"In Argentina, when you spoke about the extermination of Armenians, one always used the word genocide. I did not know another word ... When I came to Rome, I heard the other words, 'The Great Evil' and the Armenian term which I do not know how to say, and they told me that ... using 'genocide' is offensive, that you have to say something else. I have also spoken about three genocides of the last century, always three, first the Armenian, then Hitler, and the last one is Stalin."
"After I heard the tone of the President's speech and also with my past with this word, which I uttered last year in St. Peter's publicly, it would have sounded very strange not to say the same word."
Two Popes?
In response to a question about whether there are two Popes in the Vatican, a story which had received headlines recently because of a comment by Pope Benedict's personal secretary who said that the Pope Emeritus was part of an "expanded papacy," Francis said, "There is only one Pope."
"[benedict] is the Pope Emeritus, the wise grandpa. He is the man who guards my back with his prayers."
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Well, this man is an expert in giving a message to the press and then doing another in other places. Instead of talking with journalists in a plane, he'd better say it OUT LOUD AND CLEAR on the balcony of Saint Peter.

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Well, this man is an expert in giving a message to the press and then doing another in other places. Instead of talking with journalists in a plane, he'd better say it OUT LOUD AND CLEAR on the balcony of Saint Peter.

Good point.

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There's an old Catholic church in the downtown area I frequent that had a huuuuge gay pride flag on it today with the name St James church on it. It's a very artistic / gay friendly area (they just had their own gay pride festival a week before DetroIT) but still it was a Catholic church. It was nice to see.

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I don´t give a hist about the pope.Yes, this one seems more normal, but is just the president of another country. well, more like albert of monaco than Holland, but still, nothing more, even if he says something that I agree on

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By apologizing they would be admitting that their book of claimed truth would be inaccurate. If it's supposedly the words of a perfect god who doesn't make mistakes, then the concept is kinda blown out of the water.



Or if they apologized but still believe it's truth, they would be disobeying their god.



It's a dual edge sword for them. Religion is a weird thing. Everyone thinks theirs is the correct one.




They should apologize for the child molestation first or have they conveniently swept that under the rug


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Pay attention to what he's actually saying. It's basically the Catholic version of "Love the sinner, hate the sin". (And we all know what that really means...).

He's not saying Roman Catholicism has been wrong on it's stance about homosexuality...just that they should be nicer.

He still called it a "condition" in that speech (per other articles that mentioned more of his words).

Don't get me wrong, I think telling the church to be more tolerant is a good thing. But don't mistake that for being anything more.

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She's obviously talking about the big institutionalised religions. I'd say religion is a relationship that man has with God. I can be extremely religious but not belonging to any church or temple or mosque.. I think Madonna's always been religious.. She definetely believes in God! Kabbalah is not described as a religion but it's still a system of beliefs so I'd say in that sense Madonna is religious... She just doesn't belong to the big ones. That's all...

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She's obviously talking about the big institutionalised religions. I'd say religion is a relationship that man has with God. I can be extremely religious but not belonging to any church or temple or mosque.. I think Madonna's always been religious.. She definetely believes in God! Kabbalah is not described as a religion but it's still a system of beliefs so I'd say in that sense Madonna is religious... She just doesn't belong to the big ones. That's all...

I think that's more being spiritual than religious.

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He can go fuck himself. Pastoral guidance, how pedantic.

If he was so enlightened he wouldn't be Catholic, much less THE POPE

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Pay attention to what he's actually saying. It's basically the Catholic version of "Love the sinner, hate the sin". (And we all know what that really means...).

He's not saying Roman Catholicism has been wrong on it's stance about homosexuality...just that they should be nicer.

He still called it a "condition" in that speech (per other articles that mentioned more of his words).

Don't get me wrong, I think telling the church to be more tolerant is a good thing. But don't mistake that for being anything more.

This.
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I think that's more being spiritual than religious.

Religion and spirituality are two different things but they're also dependent of the other.. If you believe in the spirit you just believe in a God who gave you the spirit and if you believe in God you must believe God gave you a spirit or God is spirit. As I said I think she jumped to the idea those people were talking about Catholicism or Islam, etc.. I don't think for one second Madonna would deny the idea of a God. Or the Light as she would call it.

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The first Jesuit Pope. For those who are aware of the origins and 500-year-old history of the Jesuits these are dark times. They make Opus Dei members seem like a harmless bunch. Jesuits and Zionists work together in owning and manouevering the banking élites and covering up for the real reasons behind most geopolitical strategizing around the world. But I should say better: Zionism is a Jesuit creation and ideological instrument from the start.

To have such a little condescending pat of approval from someone who's responsible of the death of so many Argentinian dissidents by way of silence and who's the head of the most paedo ridden, legalised money laundering, tax exempt organisation in the world, sounds like the biggest joke.

Glad an increasing number of people isn't buying into this PR wolf in sheep clothing crook.

He's just the facade kind grandpa called to give a fresh coat of compassionate painting to the image of the Roman Catholic Church after the disastrous PR legacy left by Ratzinger.

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This Pope is almost duel personality. One moment he preaches love and reconciliation to the community, the next condemnation. Jumping for joy should be avoided when looking at statements from the Pontiff.

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Pay attention to what he's actually saying. It's basically the Catholic version of "Love the sinner, hate the sin". (And we all know what that really means...).

He's not saying Roman Catholicism has been wrong on it's stance about homosexuality...just that they should be nicer.

He still called it a "condition" in that speech (per other articles that mentioned more of his words).

Don't get me wrong, I think telling the church to be more tolerant is a good thing. But don't mistake that for being anything more.

Exactly. We are just like the other people. We don't need guidance or whatever. We need that they stop talking hateful about us and focus on what is important in the world right now.

Oh, and Francisco could very well come to Spain and get rid of the old farts from Church who say that being gay is an ilness. And those are BISHOPS and in theory Francisco is their boss.

This man is just a fake, a kind of community manager for Church to change face but nothing else. I prefered Ratzinger, who was pure venom but at least you knew what to expect.

*flush*

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By apologizing they would be admitting that their book of claimed truth would be inaccurate. If it's supposedly the words of a perfect god who doesn't make mistakes, then the concept is kinda blown out of the water.

Or if they apologized but still believe it's truth, they would be disobeying their god.

It's a dual edge sword for them. Religion is a weird thing. Everyone thinks theirs is the correct one.

They should apologize for the child molestation first or have they conveniently swept that under the rug

Are you talking new testament?

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I know I migh be in the minority here but a pope who actually stands by the LGB community is unheard of.. Regardless of his reasons this has to be celebrated... not mistrusted.

Yes Catholicism in general is responsible for thousands of years of homophobia but gay people shouldn't look at it and take it personally. I never had for a start... I was grown up in a very strict catholic environment and it's not the idea of homosexuality which is condmened it's the whole idea of sex! Sex for fun reasons is forbidden. Only sex within a marriage and for procreation reasons is welcome according to the Catholic catechism. Gay people never had a chance in being accepted because since there's no procreation results (duh!) their sexuality has always been condmened.

I don't define myself Catholic anymore but I can easily see myself as a Christian. Although people think they're the same thing it's actually not. I think this pope is trying to be more Christian than Catholic. I think this pope is trying to reconnect more to a world that has abondened the church and all its arcane views. The problem with the big istutuzionalised religions and sex and sexuality is they have always condmened sex but they actually never explained to us what sex really is... Why it is so wrong in Gods eyes, etc... I think a lot of people have let go of an idea of God simply because they based the ideas of God from this big religions.

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