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How do other residents of EU countries feel about potentially leaving the EU?

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I'm not sure if they are Murdoch, I don't think so but might be wrong, I don't read the Express myself.

Googled it. No, it's not Murdoch. But it is owned to the same kind of power hungry person. At least from my perspective. And he paid more than a miliion pounds to UKIP to support their case. I rest my case regarding the article published.

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Guest Rachelle of London

The Express is a very right wing newspaper. I don't trust their articles at all. The same guy that owns channel 5 owns them. The same channel 5 that have 90% of programming is about how evil people on benefits are. The other 10% is controlled by Katie Hopkins husband.

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Here's one Italian's view aired on Italian tv.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683556/Italian-journalist-destroys-anti-Brexit-arguments-blasts-European-Union

Paulo Barnard was presenting his regular slot on economic talk show La Gabbia days before Britain voted to leave the EU, when he exposed some of the most common held myths about Brexit.

Asked if he thought Brexit would create a domino effect in Europe, Barnard replies: I hope. I hope it will destroy this rubbish.

He continued: If a Brit overlooks Dovers cliffs, what does he see?

He sees a Europe that from 2007 to today has lost its GDP to the point of not getting it back.

He sees an unemployment rate thats double that of the UK. He sees banking gaps for 1.7 trillion in Europe, that nobody is covering.

He turns around to the other side and sees an America that from 2007 to today has regained all of their GDP and added 10% to the national wealth.

Barnard then cites data from economic think tank Open Europe that says the maximum loss for the UK in leaving the EU would be 1 per cent of its GDP. In London, the loss was 1.1 per cent.

Barnard then addresses the threat of a commercial block being placed on Britain.

He says: Theres just one small detail that no-one considers - Europe exports to the UK 10 times what the UK exports in Europe.

It will be very difficult for France, Germany, Italy and Spain to lose billions of exports by blocking the UK.

On leaving the single market, Barnard says: There are 500 million potential European consumers that are in great trouble.

While the UK, deregulated and outside the EU, has something like 2.2bn potential customers in emerging countries.

He dismisses the impact on British business as bulls**t saying it will effect 0.4 per cent of the UKs largest companies such as Shell, GlaxoSmithKlein and Unilever.

To loud applause, Baranrd concludes: Now the UK wants to leave from this Economocide, from this authoritarian EU and from this nomenclature. Then for what are the Bilderbergs men trembling for? What are the huge companies afraid of?

Theyre not scared of economic loss - they are scared over the loss of control over a neb-feudal, authoritarian and anti-democratic project called the European Union.

The American economy is far from being in a good state unfortunately. The world is turning away from the dollar as global reserve currency. The Chinese gov holds $3trn worth of US debt. When the FED raises interest rates again things will not look nice. Russia has made a mockery of EU/US in regards to the situation in Syria. Russia and China are shaking hands against the so called petrodollar system.

As for the Bilderberg part, they'd have as much to gain from Brexit than without it, probably more. Some obvious points from that Barnard mixed with propaganda and disinformation lies. The nature of control is creating chaos and dividing people, pin them against one other. So far Brexit or the prospect of it has brought exactly that.

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The Express is a very right wing newspaper. I don't trust their articles at all. The same guy that owns channel 5 owns them. The same channel 5 that have 90% of programming is about how evil people on benefits are. The other 10% is controlled by Katie Hopkins husband.

Katie Hopkins? That c*nt from Big Brother and from some wedding show where people had to walk through cow shit? Despicable woman. And Channel 5? Is that the channel that had some kind of show on about a street in Manchester or something where only unemployed people live? Quality television it's not.

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LOL. Typical nonsense and lies that where thrown around by Brexiteers. Just two things that must have everyone with half a brain scratching their heads, a) the claim that only 0.4 per cent of companies will be affected and b) what is this talk about 500 million people in trouble while the U.K. has potential 2.2 billion customers in emerging markets? (lazy translation?). From my knowledge there are a few ten thousand companies that do business with Europe. That's hardly 0.4 per cent. And what is this talk about 2.2 billion potentential customers? Does he not understand that the U.K. only has trade deals with many countries across the globe though the E.U. If the U.K. leaves there are no trade deals in existence for the U.K. The U.K. needs to negotiate new deals. Usually those things take a lot of time. And why does he believe this is so great for the British economy? Doesn't her realize that the British companies/products are in competition with other countries like China and the U.S. and the E.U. as well. Furthermore, many people in those emerging markets are piss poor. Those are not customers for British goods. Those people will buy the cheap stuff made in China or in their own countries.

But what struck me immediately when I read the article, when he talks about a "deregulated UK". Using this term speaks volumes and clearly shows where this guy is coming from. People who are in favor of a deregulated economy are the worst of the worst and people should be very careful. Deregulation was one if not the main reason for the financial crisis 2008. And who had to bail out all the financial instituations? The general public! They better watch out. And I guess The Express who posted the article is one of Murdochs papers?

This

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Guest Rachelle of London

Katie Hopkins? That c*nt from Big Brother and from some wedding show where people had to walk through cow shit? Despicable woman. And Channel 5? Is that the channel that had some kind of show on about a street in Manchester or something where only unemployed people live? Quality television it's not.

Coronation Street is a soap opera. No need for negativity towards Corrie :lmao: it's on ITV anyway.

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Coronation Street is a soap opera. No need for negativity towards Corrie :lmao: it's on ITV anyway.

Chelle, I would never speak badly about the national treasure that Coronation Street is. I think to remember that they play your wifes music pretty often. :lol:

But seriously, I think there was a show that followed that street for a year or so. Don't know where it was. And as mean as it sounds, most of the people there were really trashy people. You know, those who do not want to work and just take the benefits and constantly get into trouble with their poor neighbours who have not reached that point yet and work for minimum wage.

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Guest Rachelle of London

Chelle, I would never speak badly about the national treasure that Coronation Street is. I think to remember that they play your wifes music pretty often. :lol:

But seriously, I think there was a show that followed that street for a year or so. Don't know where it was. And as mean as it sounds, most of the people there were really trashy people. You know, those who do not want to work and just take the benefits and constantly get into trouble with their poor neighbours who have not reached that point yet and work for minimum wage.

:rotfl: Corrie is legit the best show on TV

Yeah Benefit Street that's on channel 4 BUT channel 5 has Benefits by the sea. IM NOT EVEN KIDDING

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Here's one Italian's view aired on Italian tv.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/683556/Italian-journalist-destroys-anti-Brexit-arguments-blasts-European-Union

Paulo Barnard was presenting his regular slot on economic talk show La Gabbia days before Britain voted to leave the EU, when he exposed some of the most common held myths about Brexit.

Asked if he thought Brexit would create a domino effect in Europe, Barnard replies: “I hope. I hope it will destroy this rubbish.”

He continued: “If a Brit overlook’s Dover’s cliffs, what does he see?

“He sees a Europe that from 2007 to today has lost its GDP to the point of not getting it back.

“He sees an unemployment rate that’s double that of the UK. He sees banking gaps for €1.7 trillion in Europe, that nobody is covering.

“He turns around to the other side and sees an America that from 2007 to today has regained all of their GDP and added 10% to the national wealth.”

Barnard then cites data from economic think tank Open Europe that says the maximum loss for the UK in leaving the EU would be 1 per cent of its GDP. In London, the loss was 1.1 per cent.

Barnard then addresses the threat of a commercial block being placed on Britain.

He says: “There’s just one small detail that no-one considers - Europe exports to the UK 10 times what the UK exports in Europe.

“It will be very difficult for France, Germany, Italy and Spain to lose billions of exports by blocking the UK.”

On leaving the single market, Barnard says: “There are 500 million potential European consumers that are in great trouble.

“While the UK, deregulated and outside the EU, has something like 2.2bn potential customers in emerging countries.”

He dismisses the impact on British business as “bulls**t” saying it will effect 0.4 per cent of the UK’s largest companies such as Shell, GlaxoSmithKlein and Unilever.

To loud applause, Baranrd concludes: “Now the UK wants to leave from this Economocide, from this authoritarian EU and from this nomenclature. Then for what are the Bilderberg’s men trembling for? What are the huge companies afraid of?

“They’re not scared of economic loss - they are scared over the loss of control over a neb-feudal, authoritarian and anti-democratic project called the European Union.”

Italians talk shows are known to be just about a few peeps who talk and talk and talk with nothing concrete really taking place. The effect of Brexit is unknown yet but facts should speak for themselves. If Brexit was such a huge and important and beneficial thing for the country how come no one is actually here taking responsibility for it?! And whatever the man was saying on TV was based on fantasy. That sort of talk wasn't even discussed by the Leave campaigners. It's purely based on conspiracy theories lol

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Italians talk shows are known to be just about a few peeps who talk and talk and talk with nothing concrete really taking place. The effect of Brexit is unknown yet but facts should speak for themselves. If Brexit was such a huge and important and beneficial thing for the country how come no one is actually here taking responsibility for it?! And whatever the man was saying on TV was based on fantasy. That sort of talk wasn't even discussed by the Leave campaigners. It's purely based on conspiracy theories lol

Lol true. There are very few good political talks here. I can't watch them anymore. It's just noise that give you headache and you don't understand anything.

La Gabbia in particular is a big mess :dead: The host votes for the Northern League Party and for that dreadful Matteo Salvini (he is allied with Marine Le Pen, enough said) and it's the political force that hates EU the most and wants Italy out of Euro and European Union. So don't get surprised.

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:rotfl: Corrie is legit the best show on TV

Yeah Benefit Street that's on channel 4 BUT channel 5 has Benefits by the sea. IM NOT EVEN KIDDING

Benefits by the sea? WTF is that? Do they send people on a cruise or do they live in a posh hotel in Brighton or Bath?

Sounds kinda hysterical.

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I agree 100%.

Democracy is not the best option if most people in a country are ignorant and uneducated. The fact they allowed people to vote and some of them didn't even know what EU stood for should speak volumes. This truly can't be a true democracy... Who wants a democracy of fools anyways?! I hope the parliament will stop this nonsense.. No one expected the Leave vote to win. No one.. Even Farage thought the In vote would have won. Now they're all shitting themselves. Is it ever possible no one thought of a plan B just in case England was actually voting out?! Now they don't know what to do.. Idiots! People went to vote out as if it was a sports event... They didn't think of any of the consequences.. that says a lot about the society we are living in..

While I totally understand your point, I think we can never go down the path of saying democracy does not work. If we say that certain people are not intelligent or informed enough to vote, it is creating a class war and snobbery that only benefits the wealthy and the well educated. Then their views and needs are only met while poorer people are ignored. Big business and corporations have too much say and power as well. It is a shame that too many people are apathetic about politics and issues that are very important to their lives but sadly that will always happen.

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I agree 100%.

Democracy is not the best option if most people in a country are ignorant and uneducated. The fact they allowed people to vote and some of them didn't even know what EU stood for should speak volumes. This truly can't be a true democracy... Who wants a democracy of fools anyways?! I hope the parliament will stop this nonsense.. No one expected the Leave vote to win. No one.. Even Farage thought the In vote would have won. Now they're all shitting themselves. Is it ever possible no one thought of a plan B just in case England was actually voting out?! Now they don't know what to do.. Idiots! People went to vote out as if it was a sports event... They didn't think of any of the consequences.. that says a lot about the society we are living in..

Go try living under a dictatorship and then come back with that bullshit.

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While I totally understand your point, I think we can never go down the path of saying democracy does not work. If we say that certain people are not intelligent or informed enough to vote, it is creating a class war and snobbery that only benefits the wealthy and the well educated. Then their views and needs are only met while poorer people are ignored. Big business and corporations have too much say and power as well. It is a shame that too many people are apathetic about politics and issues that are very important to their lives but sadly that will always happen.

:clap: It's very arrogant to try to qualify the intelligence of people based on a voting result.

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While I totally understand your point, I think we can never go down the path of saying democracy does not work. If we say that certain people are not intelligent or informed enough to vote, it is creating a class war and snobbery that only benefits the wealthy and the well educated. Then their views and needs are only met while poorer people are ignored. Big business and corporations have too much say and power as well. It is a shame that too many people are apathetic about politics and issues that are very important to their lives but sadly that will always happen.

So should racist people allowed to vote? Should that be allowed to have a voice? If misinformation brings racism and xenophobia shouldn't the government step in and dissolve those ideas at their very core?

A lot of countries had referendums on whether they wanted to legalise same sex marriages.. The outcome has been most favourable towards a yes but say if actually people voted no. They were not prepared to the idea of two men or two women getting married would you have agreed that was a responsible decision? I would have said bollocks to democracy as each persons feelings matter here ( even minorities). What about all these people who went to vote Leave and now they're regretting their vote. What about people who went to vote and then after they went to google the consequences of their vote? Sorry but ignorance is not bliss!

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While I totally understand your point, I think we can never go down the path of saying democracy does not work. If we say that certain people are not intelligent or informed enough to vote, it is creating a class war and snobbery that only benefits the wealthy and the well educated. Then their views and needs are only met while poorer people are ignored. Big business and corporations have too much say and power as well. It is a shame that too many people are apathetic about politics and issues that are very important to their lives but sadly that will always happen.

I get what you are saying. Unfortunately much of it is a sign of the times. People are useful idiots. And for some reason they don't even care. Reason might be that we in the Western world live a very privileged life. Not for all, but for the overwhelming majority. And because most of the people still have their jobs, have their good income, have their houses, their flats, their cars, have access to proper healthcare etc. they sit still. We live in times where people are kind of apathetic as you pointed out. Arrogance, ignorance towards other people? Fear they might loose their social status? I don't know. In addition to that safe financial life there are all the personal freedoms and civil rights people have. None of which people of this generation has fought for. All those basic civil rights were brought by people from former generations, when people were not content. I think many people think there is nothing left to fight for. And here lies the danger. Who has ever said that the rights people take for granted cannot be taken away at some point? Now add the desinterest people show towards politics and desinterest of younger people (who cares about studies if you have Facebook?) to acquire knowledge about those people who went before them and about the struggles of the civil rights movement. Without this knowledge you are the perfect pawn for extremist people for agitators. Because you don't know if what they are telling you is right or wrong you can be easily swayed. And I think this is what we have seen in the UK. What it takes to protect the people of special interest are politicians who stick their neck out for those people, that fight for those people. Unfortunately I have not seen many in recent years. Most politicians come across as career driven people who care more about themselves and do it for the money or influence or power,

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So should racist people allowed to vote?should that be allowed to have a voice? If misinformation brings racism and xenophobia shouldn't the givernment step in and dissolve those ideas at their very core?

Interesting you should say that. If somebody is imprisoned because of a racially fueled hate crime Europe wanted the UK to let that person vote in a case of human rights.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31356895

Dude, idealism is cute when you're 9 but when you're a grown up it is silly. Do you even know what you're supporting? Right now your assertions contradict each other.

Your views and the facts:

We should be in the EU because that's what is right and humane.

We shouldn't let racists vote.

The EU wants the British government to allow criminals to vote and create new legislation to state such.

Oh and the arrogant man judges the intelligence of people too soon. The smart man waits.

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I get what you are saying. Unfortunately much of it is a sign of the times. People are useful idiots. And for some reason they don't even care. Reason might be that we in the Western world live a very privileged life. Not for all, but for the overwhelming majority. And because most of the people still have their jobs, have their good income, have their houses, their flats, their cars, have access to proper healthcare etc. they sit still. We live in times where people are kind of apathetic as you pointed out. Arrogance, ignorance towards other people? Fear they might loose their social status? I don't know. In addition to that safe financial life there are all the personal freedoms and civil rights people have. None of which people of this generation has fought for. All those basic civil rights were brought by people from former generations, when people were not content. I think many people think there is nothing left to fight for. And here lies the danger. Who has ever said that the rights people take for granted cannot be taken away at some point? Now add the desinterest people show towards politics and desinterest of younger people (who cares about studies if you have Facebook?) to acquire knowledge about those people who went before them and about the struggles of the civil rights movement. Without this knowledge you are the perfect pawn for extremist people for agitators. Because you don't know if what they are telling you is right or wrong you can be easily swayed. And I think this is what we have seen in the UK. What it takes to protect the people of special interest are politicians who stick their neck out for those people, that fight for those people. Unfortunately I have not seen many in recent years. Most politicians come across as career driven people who care more about themselves and do it for the money or influence or power,

This.

Of course no one is against the idea of democracy but when the system has been corrupted to the core and then some and people go to vote out of anger instead of having all the facts and information what sort of democracy is that? If people really knew of the consequences of Brexit how come no one knows what to do now?! People have said "we have our country back" soon after they realized the Leave vote has won...is that the mentality you want your nation to be based on?! True democracy lies on the free choice citizen has for productivity and prosperity for your country but if your choice is anti productive what good is for your country?

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So should racist people allowed to vote?should that be allowed to have a voice? If misinformation brings racism and xenophobia shouldn't the givernment step in and dissolve those ideas at their very core?

I know it is disgusting and inhuman when people are racist but I don't know how we can draw the line to determine who actually is. Some educated people are disgustingly racist and sexist as well. I think we are opening Pandora's box so to speak if we start saying people should be excluded from voting. Women were not allowed to vote once for the exact same argument. They were thought to not be educated or smart enough to vote.

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:clap: It's very arrogant to try to qualify the intelligence of people based on a voting result.

Oh please. It is very well possible to do so. This is how analysis of voting results is done. You are missing a point here. No one is running around and is telling the people who voted to leave, they were dumb. What is done is a simple analysis. Just as it was analyzed how many people were voting in London, in Brighton, in Manchester and other regions and how they voted. Just as it was analyzed how people many people of a certain age have voted and how they voted. It can be analyzed what profession they have and what their education is. All of this is painting a picture how a constituency looks like. Numbers don't lie. And if the numbers show that people with a lower education have overwhelmingly voted to leave than it is simple fact. Just like stating the fact that pensioners in the South East overwhelmingly voted to leave. You try to make something personal here that is much more about empirical research and statistics.

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Interesting you should say that. If somebody is imprisoned because of a racially fueled hate crime Europe wanted the UK to let that person vote in a case of human rights.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31356895

Dude, idealism is cute when you're 9 but when you're a grown up it is silly. Do you even know what you're supporting? Right now your assertions contradict each other.

Your views and the facts:

We should be in the EU because that's what is right and humane.

We shouldn't let racists vote.

The EU wants the British government to allow criminals to vote and create new legislation to state such.

Oh and the arrogant man judges the intelligence of people too soon. The smart man waits.

A racist man goes to jail for his crime and then what? Nothing. He ll stay even more racist and then you can debate as much as you like about giving them rights.

First off I wouldn't have jails. I would reform the criminal system where these criminals are truly reformed. Putting them in jail doesn't do anything to them. It's been proven billions of times. I would give them jobs.. I would also listen to them and let them see there's a world that cares about them. I would insert them in a society that doesn't judge them but forgives them and show them that everybody can be good and work together for the whole world's interest not just their own. People are not born racist you see... People become racist because of many different reasons. Education can eradicate ignorance after all. I would never give up on a person no matter how bad he's been perceived by society. I talk to racists everyday and I try to sway their views.. Some times it works I have to say. And yes I still stand by the idea that we can't give any sort of power to anyone who have hate in their hearts. It may be not democratic but at least I do it for good reasons. No one in their right mind would give the atomic bomb to Isis!

Did the UK have a referendum when they decided to go bomb Iraq for what was it? Oh yeah weapons of mass destruction. They didn't care what the public had to say. They just went with their armies and missiles and made war! Why is it they didn't need to hear the voice of the people?! You see how biased it is. So now the voice for unity and peace gets under fire ( thanks a lot Get Unconscious lol) but in real times of crises when democracy should be loud and clear about the responsibility of bombing another country where was the voice of the public?

And by the way who have I judged? Racism and xenophobia? Those things have already been judged.. Not by me by the way.

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Oh please. It is very well possible to do so. This is how analysis of voting results is done. You are missing a point here. No one is running around and is telling the people who voted to leave, they were dumb. What is done is a simple analysis. Just as it was analyzed how many people were voting in London, in Brighton, in Manchester and other regions and how they voted. Just as it was analyzed how people many people of a certain age have voted and how they voted. It can be analyzed what profession they have and what their education is. All of this is painting a picture how a constituency looks like. Numbers don't lie. And if the numbers show that people with a lower education have overwhelmingly voted to leave than it is simple fact. Just like stating the fact that pensioners in the South East voted overwhelmingly voted to leave. You try to make something personal here that is much more about empirical research and statistics.

So you think statistics can accurately collate data of non correlating events? I'd be interested to know how. I have an iq of 156, I am self employed, I'm from a lower/middle class background. I have friends with very similar sociographic and psychographic backgrounds and we didn't all vote let alone vote for the same thing. Data is collected in order to herd people into defined spaces for the purpose of the establishment. If you truly are liberal minded you shouldn't be judging people by numbers collected by some 9-5er that are then manipulated as any source data is.

I take offense to these very immature suggestions to be honest. Not to mention how hypocritical they are.

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A racist man goes to jail for his crime and then what? Nothing. He ll stay even more racist and then you can debate as much as you like about giving them rights.

First off I wouldn't have jails. I would reform the criminal system where these criminals are truly reformed. Putting them in jail doesn't do anything to them. It's been proven billions of times. I would give them jobs.. I would also listen to them and let them see there's a world that cares about them. I would insert them in a society that doesn't judge them but forgives them and show them that everybody can be good and work together for the whole world's interest not just their own. People are not born racist you see... People become racist because of many different reasons. Education can eradicate ignorance after all. I would never give up on a person no matter how bad he's been perceived by society. I talk to racists everyday and I try to sway their views.. Some times it works I have to say. And yes I still stand by the idea that we can't give any sort of power to anyone who have hate in their hearts. It may be not democratic but at least I do it for good reasons.

Did the UK have a referendum when they decided to go bomb Iraq for what was it? Oh yeah weapons of mass destruction. They didn't care what the public had to say. They just went with their armies and missiles and made war! Why is it they didn't need to hear the voice of the people?! You see how biased it is. So now the voice for unity and peace gets under fire ( thanks a lot Get Unconscious lol) but in real times of crises when democracy should be loud and clear about the responsibility of bombing another country where was the voice of the public?

And by the way who have I judged? Racism and xenophobia? Those things have already been judged.. Not by me by the way.

I respect your passion but I have nothing constructive to say to you because your arguments are unreasonable/irrational.

Meakmaker: In my world nothing bad ever happens. We're all happy, can live anywhere and criminals don't exist. 😂😂😂

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I know it is disgusting and inhuman when people are racist but I don't know how we can draw the line to determine who actually is. Some educated people are disgustingly racist and sexist as well. I think we are opening Pandora's box so to speak if we start saying people should be excluded from voting. Women were not allowed to vote once for the exact same argument. They were thought to not be educated or smart enough to vote.

I think the subject derailed a little. I don't think MeakMaker wants to exclude people from voting. No matter if they are racist or homophobe or whatever. I think his point is that a democracy only works if all people get sufficient representation in elections just as minorities always need protection from the majority. This said, it is highly questionable that a simple majority is enough to decide upon important issues like the irreversible step to leave the EU. I think it's highly problematic that the results are almost even. Yes, it's a 4 percentage point difference. Yes, there are a little bit more than a million more votes to leave. But, what is a million more if this decides upon the fate of almost half the country, of more than 17 million voters, not including those who did not vote and were not eligible to vote. Again, an irreversible decision. People underestimate how easy it is to get a simple majority. Considering that more than two/thirds voted IN 43 years ago I would have thought it would need just as much to get out.

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Of course everyone deserves and is entitled to a vote, just as they deserve to have politicians and a media to provide facts/data to allow them to come to an informed decision.

Should this issue have been put to a referendum though? Absolutely not. As has been said over and over, it was an issue of internal party politics that spilled over into a huge gamble that didn't pay off.

MeakMaker- idealism is great and all, but you realistically need to play within the parameters of the 'game' first and foremost.

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So you think statistics can accurately collate data of non correlating events? I'd be interested to know how. I have an iq of 156, I am self employed, I'm from a lower/middle class background. I have friends with very similar sociographic and psychographic backgrounds and we didn't all vote let alone vote for the same thing. Data is collected in order to herd people into defined spaces for the purpose of the establishment. If you truly are liberal minded you shouldn't be judging people by numbers collected by some 9-5er that are then manipulated as any source data is.

I take offense to these very immature suggestions to be honest. Not to mention how hypocritical they are.

:dead:

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I think the subject derailed a little. I don't think MeakMaker wants to exclude people from voting. No matter if they are racist or homophobe or whatever. I think his point is that a democracy only works if all people get sufficient representation in elections just as minorities always need protection from the majority. This said, it is highly questionable that a simple majority is enough to decide upon important issues like the irreversible step to leave the EU. I think it's highly problematic that the results are almost even. Yes, it's a 4 percentage point difference. Yes, there are a little bit more than a million more votes to leave. But, what is a million more if this decides upon the fate of almost half the country, of more than 17 million voters, not including those who did not vote and were not eligible to vote. Again, an irreversible decision. People underestimate how easy it is to get a simple majority. Considering that more than two/thirds voted IN 43 years ago I would have thought it would need just as much to get out.

Yes, I do understand totally what you and MeakMaker are saying. I blame Cameron for this even going to a public vote. Once a referendum is announced though, everyone had the right to vote. It never should have gone this far but the Genie is now well and truly out of the bottle.

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The world will never change because of people like you Get Unconsiocus

You truly need to go listen the following:

Why's It So Hard?

History Land Of The Free

Hey You

Its So Cool

Borrowed Time

I wish I could be 9 to be honest. World is so easy to understand and live when you're a child and then you grow up and realize how bad this place is but my fight is to change it... Not to accept it. I'm not judging the world for its goodness... I'm calling it for what it is. I know it's an incovenient truth and truth does hurt but people have wasted thousand of years believing my ideas are utopia or silly or whatever... But just because it hasn't been done before that doesn't mean it can't be done now? And it starts within yourself... And I'm not even mentioning how many people have actually given their life to make my dream come true. Was Luther a fantasist? Oh yeah he was but he's given his life for the cause and if African American are where they are now is because of the life of a fantasist! He did say I Have A Dream in the end and there's nothing wrong with that. You like to annihilate people by rediculing their points of view and sometimes even calling them names I accept that and I forgive you but don't you ever get tired of it?

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The world will never change because of people like you Get Unconsiocus

You truly need to go listen the following:

Why's It So Hard?

History Land Of The Free

Hey You

Its So Cool

Borrowed Time

I wish I could be 9 to be honest. World is so easy to understand and live when you're a child and then you grow up and realize how bad this place is but my fight is to change it... Not to accept it. I'm not judging the world for its goodness... I'm calling it for what it is. I know it's an incovenient truth and truth does hurt but people have wasted thousand of years believing my ideas are utopia or silly or whatever... But just because it hasn't been done before that doesn't mean it can't be done now? And it starts within yourself... And I'm not even mentioning how many people have actually given their life to make my dream come true. Was Luther a fantasist? Oh yeah he was but he's given his life for the cause and if African American are where they are now is because of the life of a fantasist! He did say I Have A Dream in the end and there's nothing wrong with that. You like to annihilate people by rediculing their points of view and sometimes even calling them names I accept that and I forgive you but don't you ever get tired of it?

Martin Luther King Jr. was a genius and one of the few people with that kind of reputation I truly admire. He was a visionary with a heart of steel. He wasn't an idealist.

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So you think statistics can accurately collate data of non correlating events? I'd be interested to know how. I have an iq of 156, I am self employed, I'm from a lower/middle class background. I have friends with very similar sociographic and psychographic backgrounds and we didn't all vote let alone vote for the same thing. Data is collected in order to herd people into defined spaces for the purpose of the establishment. If you truly are liberal minded you shouldn't be judging people by numbers collected by some 9-5er that are then manipulated as any source data is.

I take offense to these very immature suggestions to be honest. Not to mention how hypocritical they are.

As I pointed out all this information is based on empirical research and statistics. No one judged anyone. It's not evil magic. And spare me your conspiracy theories. I also do not appreciate questioning if I have a liberal mind or not. I don't care what IQ you have or where you come from. It doesn't matter to me. It appears to me like a silly attempt to come across as superior.

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