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How do other residents of EU countries feel about potentially leaving the EU?

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I have a feeling that your ideas on the EU in/out vote are gonna change over the next few months. So let's chronicle them.

Spain? Frenchies? Dutch?

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Since my country is one of the six founding members of the European Union, I think that it would be quite ridiculous for us to leave the boat. When you don't like the decoration of your house, you don't burn it : you try to change it :lol:

I don't think my country is ever going to leave, unless that crazy bitch Marine LePen is elected president next year. But then, that would be the least of our problems :sick:

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So in France is it only a 'right wing' opinion that people might be better off outside of the EU?

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The Dutchies will stay in the EU!

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So in France is it only a 'right wing' opinion that people might be better off outside of the EU?

Only the far right, yes! All the major parties are pro-Europe, even the communists.

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So in France is it only a 'right wing' opinion that people might be better off outside of the EU?

Yes - the far right people are basically the only ones who've been championing the "out".

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No it's not. The far left (Melenchon) is also against Europe.

I don't think people are against Europe per say but against THIS Europe, what it has become, what lobbies and bankers made it.

In 2005 we voted against the european constitution which two years later Sarkozy via Parliament ignored and agreed to ratify.

This was a major turndown in public opinion about elections in general and made us not trust our leaders.

The turnout for the vote was massive (69%) and the NO won by 55% of the votes. Not taking into account what the people voted for was a terrible mistake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_European_Constitution_referendum,_2005

Even people who are devasted by the Brexit don't trust or want THIS Europe. We are all aware of the manipulations and lobbies running it for their own sake.

That said what Cameron did was completly amateur and not well thought.

He gave power to another bunch of assholes. Brits will no longer be fucked by the european parliament but by the brit far right and establishment. I don't expect things to get better for people outside of the big cities especially London. There's a huge class divide in England and the class that will most likely run the country is not the lower class that voted massively for OUT.

They used immigration to rally people but now there are talks of renegociating the contracts between France and the UK that put France in charge of protecting the UK borders. If that happens, England will be on its own to stop immigration. People in Calais are so fed up and organized that they'll probably pressure the government about it and the government already started talking about it days before the Brexit results.

I personally think THIS Europe is bullshit but getting out of it will be complicated since we have the euro. But all the major candidates for the next presidential election have expressed their will to renegociate our agreements with the EU.

I can see France and Germany making a bilateral deal in the future and slowly let go of the EU as it is.

The Brexit in England planted seeds in people's mind who think that the Euro fucked up their purchasing power more than immigration. That will be a major thing during the presidential campaign that has already unofficially started (election is in may 2017).

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Interesting. So are there huge amounts of disenfranchised people in France? One of my closest (and most beautiful friends) is French in the best way possible. She's mostly passionate about people and succeeding in life. She's amazing. She's super determined and explorative but there also seems to be a little bit of disdain amongst her and her French friends. Like...a sense of...we need to look out for ourselves because nobody is really looking out for us.

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I don't feel there is a serious movement in spain against the european union.yes,we don't like a lof of things,but people here mostly blame germany, not brusels.anyways,there is not even one big political party talking about leaving europe.evem the basque pro independence parties are in favour of the union.

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People who want to do something leave France because the system is so heavy and ancient here that you can't create something without having to go through a nightmarish process of paperwork with administration and the taxes you must pay when you start your own company help you from making a profit. The majority of start-ups close down after two years because of this.

France wants to be economically Ultra Liberal now but it clashes with our system, history and identity. So we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The new work law does not help either, instead of balancing things it makes them worst.

Jobs are a few and overqualified people end up doing shitty ones because we have a great school system but it's too general, you learn a lot but nothing that helps you in real life especially Universities that need to be completly reinvented. So you end up being a scholar on philosophy or french litterature from the 16th century but there are no jobs available for that.

In France most billionaires have all inherited from their parents. That showcases how our society works. The elite reproduces itself, nepotism is alive and well in every aspects of our society. It's like Revolution never happenned. We replaced Royalty by old money.

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People who want to do something leave France because the system is so heavy and ancient here that you can't create something without having to go through a nightmarish process of paperwork with administration and the taxes you must pay when you start your own company help you from making a profit. The majority of start-ups close down after two years because of this.

France wants to be economically Ultra Liberal now but it clashes with our system, history and identity. So we are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The new work law does not help either, instead of balancing things it makes them worst.

Jobs are a few and overqualified people end up doing shitty ones because we have a great school system but it's too general, you learn a lot but nothing that helps you in real life especially Universities that need to be completly reinvented. So you end up being a scholar on philosophy or french litterature from the 16th century but there are no jobs available for that.

In France most billionaires have all inherited from their parents. That showcases how our society works. The elite reproduces itself, nepotism is alive and well in every aspects of our society. It's like Revolution never happenned. We replaced Royalty by old money.

I always feel like I can get an informed and objective opinion from you. The part in bold I can particularly relate to. I have a friend who has three degrees (one masters) and she can't get a decent job! It's insane! More and more people are starting small businesses in the UK which I only think can be a good thing and I would like the government to do more to encourage that and decentralise the economy. Like, encourage industry in other large towns outside of London.

So ideally, would you like to be within the EU but with a completely different system?

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I feel if there were a referendum in Austria Right NOW, we would leave as well, normal working class people hate the EU

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I would be interested in the people's view, not the parties. It's not fair to group people as that puts people off of expressing their opinion. Not all 51% of the vote in the UK were right wing, despite what the internet says exclaiming this is all down to xenophobia.

I think we are going to be watched by the rest of the E.U., we have sacrificed ourselves for others in a sense. If we sink like a stone, manage to float or sail, either way it will influence others future in the E.U. But like I said before I'm not claiming to be a know it all, feel free to shut me up.

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Hmmmm i don't know. I love the idea of EU (but without the UK in it it's now meaningless imo). On one hand being together makes us stronger (wars, borders, an economic force...) but on the other hand it makes us weaker too (if somebody decides to attack the european economic system every country in the union will be impacted...it's harder to fuck one country after the other when they are on their own).

Even if they change things, every system can be perverted. Since they apaprently don't want to change anything (according to the latest reports president Hollande don't want to end the Lisbon treaty and is only doing minor changes to calm public opinion) i don't know what the future holds and no one is coming out with a good alternative. If you want out you must have a great plan to avoid chaos, so far no one has one.

So i don't know what's worst staying or leaving without a plan ?

I still don't know who i'm gonna vote for next year. So far i hate every single candidate and since we elected Hollande to get rid of Sarkozy but we ended up with his twin...i'm not the only one who is totally deceived by our politics. I probably vote for whoever will be against Marine Le Pen but without conviction. As usual.

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I would be interested in the people's view, not the parties. It's not fair to group people as that puts people off of expressing their opinion. Not all 51% of the vote in the UK were right wing, despite what the internet says exclaiming this is all down to xenophobia.

I think we are going to be watched by the rest of the E.U., we have sacrificed ourselves for others in a sense. If we sink like a stone, manage to float or sail, either way it will influence others future in the E.U. But like I said before I'm not claiming to be a know it all, feel free to shut me up.

:clap: Agree 100%. We are definitely venturing into uncharted waters and hopefully doing so will be better for the greatest majority of people in the UK and the entire world! Genevieve Vavance (mind if I call you muse?) is there any kind of left/right association to the EU situation in Austria? Or does it come down to the actual utilisation of laws relating to the EU?

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I don't think that France is ever going to leave the EU: even if we have presidential candidates who want either a radical reform or leave it (Le Pen and Mélenchon), I have the impression that we are kind of asleep.

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Hmmmm i don't know. I love the idea of EU (but without the UK in it it's now meaningless imo). On one hand being together makes us stronger (wars, borders, an economic force...) but on the other hand it makes us weaker too (if somebody decides to attack the european economic system every country in the union will be impacted...it's harder to fuck one country after the other when they are on their own).

Even if they change things, every system can be perverted. Since they apaprently don't want to change anything (according to the latest reports president Hollande don't want to end the Lisbon treaty and is only doing minor changes to calm public opinion) i don't know what the future holds and no one is coming out with a good alternative. If you want out you must have a great plan to avoid chaos, so far no one has one.

So i don't know what's worst staying or leaving without a plan ?

I still don't know who i'm gonna vote for next year. So far i hate every single candidate and since we elected Hollande to get rid of Sarkozy but we ended up with his twin...i'm not the only one who is totally deceived by our politics. I probably vote for whoever will be against Marine Le Pen but without conviction. As usual.

First emboldened part...If it's meaningless without the U.K was it ever really meaningful at all? I think that's probably what EU supporters are really struggling with. I was quite touched seeing the Union Jack being projected onto buildings across Europe. It was quite sad really. My main hope would be that there could be a political movement amongst people that spreads across Europe...maybe even becoming recognised as Political parties in certain countries. People with a view that is balanced and fair trying to make things better. Like is that so hard to relate to? People should be relating to that more than anything! I don't get it!

Second emboldened part...That's exactly what I struggle with. I have really strong opinions but I'm also really compassionate for other people and I don't feel like anybody is representing my feelings anyway. Like the majority of my feelings would be to support leaving the EU but certainly not related to immigration or closing ourselves off from Europe. My favourite thing about the UK is how much of a melting pot it is. So because anti immigration promotion by Farage was being aligned to the leave campaign I was pretty frustrated and didn't feel like I could make a clear vote that represented my beliefs. So instead of having a solid direction I was just surrounded by noise and anger. Some of the people closest to me supposedly hate each other and I know that's bullshit. It drives me barmy.

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I don't think that France is ever going to leave the EU: even if we have presidential candidates who want either a radical reform or leave it (Le Pen and Mélenchon), I have the impression that we are kind of asleep.

I don't think that France is ever going to leave the EU: even if we have presidential candidates who want either a radical reform or leave it (Le Pen and Mélenchon), I have the impression that we are kind of asleep.

More than asleep we are Knocked Out...."Tout est K.O OOOO à côté...." We are desenchantés :lol:

So much shit happenned : Sarkozy years...anti gay rallies, Valls, terrorist attacks, work law....Now the Brexit that jeopardize everything even though everyone in Europe try to say the contrary. I'm not sure people in France would vote to stay. Like i said earlier remember 69% of french people turned up in 2005 to say no at 55% to the european constitution and two years later Sarkozy told us to fuck off and agreed to the Lisbon treaty.

So i'm not so sure french people would vote remain....Especially since populism is so strong (like everywhere else in the western world).

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I'm planning on getting my dual citizenship through Italy within the next year or so. I've been too lazy to go through the red tape because I have a lot of personal things going on right now, but will definitely do it. I try to be understanding about both sides regarding UK leaving, and other Euro countries potentially staying or leaving. I'm really sick of polarizing and bitter politics, but I'm still watching what will happen regarding any domino effect on other countries. I have been hearing a lot of anger from my sister and brother in law in the UK about the outcome of the vote yesterday. My sister considers me more right wing because she's very left in her politics.

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:clap: Agree 100%. We are definitely venturing into uncharted waters and hopefully doing so will be better for the greatest majority of people in the UK and the entire world! Genevieve Vavance (mind if I call you muse?) is there any kind of left/right association to the EU situation in Austria? Or does it come down to the actual utilisation of laws relating to the EU?

call me Daniel bitch :p!!

I don't know it all boils down to the rise of nationalism in Austria, we almost got a right-wing president here from the FPÖ, the social democrats are losing constantly, I'm curious about the next elections here, the trend doesn't seem to be promising

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More than asleep we are Knocked Out...."Tout est K.O OOOO à côté...." We are desenchantés :lol:

So much shit happenned : Sarkozy years...anti gay rallies, Valls, terrorist attacks, work law....Now the Brexit that jeopardize everything even though everyone in Europe try to say the contrary. I'm not sure people in France would vote to stay. Like i said earlier remember 69% of french people turned up in 2005 to say no at 55% to the european constitution and two years later Sarkozy told us to fuck off and agreed to the Lisbon treaty.

So i'm not so sure french people would vote remain....Especially since populism is so strong (like everywhere else in the western world).

I love really cliché French accents. My friend Juliette has the greatest French accent imaginable. She said she was embarrassed of it and I was like are you kidding!? Do you have a French accent or an international school accent when you speak English? France has been through a lot of shit these last few years to be honest. Obviously the recent attacks in Paris, that guy who was shot in Nice because he was gay, the Marine Le Pen nonsense...I think you guys need a break.

I'm planning on getting my dual citizenship through Italy within the next year or so. I've been too lazy to go through the red tape because I have a lot of personal things going on right now, but will definitely do it. I try to be understanding about both sides regarding UK leaving, and other Euro countries potentially staying or leaving. I'm really sick of polarizing and bitter politics, but I'm still watching what will happen regarding any domino effect on other countries. I have been hearing a lot of anger from my sister and brother in law in the UK about the outcome of the vote yesterday. My sister considers me more right wing because she's very left in her politics.

See what Political adjacencies do to FAMILY?! :-( To me it sounds like your opinion is fairly balanced which is quite refreshing tbh.

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call me Daniel bitch :p!!

I don't know it all boils down to the rise of nationalism in Austria, we almost got a right-wing president here from the FPÖ, the social democrats are losing constantly, I'm curious about the next elections here, the trend doesn't seem to be promising

Start a Political movement Daniel (I'll remember your name when it matters most). ;-)

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I love really cliché French accents. My friend Juliette has the greatest French accent imaginable. She said she was embarrassed of it and I was like are you kidding!? Do you have a French accent or an international school accent when you speak English? France has been through a lot of shit these last few years to be honest. Obviously the recent attacks in Paris, that guy who was shot in Nice because he was gay, the Marine Le Pen nonsense...I think you guys need a break.

See what Political adjacencies do to FAMILY?! :-( To me it sounds like your opinion is fairly balanced which is quite refreshing tbh.

I have an american accent because i've been to the US regularly since i was 14 (both my sisters are american citizens) and lived there for 2 years. When i lived in London i had a hard time with cockney accent. My first week working in a restaurant i almost cried every day because i sometimes did not understand a damn word. But people were always amazed i did not have a french accent, which i can do on purpose though.I even worked as an interpreter for 8 years (i started in NYC).

Last time i was in London (4 years ago) i absolutely hated what it had become. I was amazed that everywhere i went to from the moment i left the station, i heard people speak french :lol: but that's not what bothered me. I used to live in the west end, in the nice part of Earl's Court (redcliff sq) and work in South Ken so i was already used to see rich people flash their wealth but last time it was everywhere. I found everything to be very expensive. My London have all moved out of town because of this. They started moving to the east end 10 years ago, around Hoxton and in the following further in the east as rent and gentrification was chasing them out.

I was with a friend who is a club promoter in Paris and we went to London to see how were the parties (and to show him where i used to live). We were crushed to see how expensive it was to go out to party. Most of the people in clubs were rich kids posing. No fun at all. A far cry from whay i had known and loved about London. It's something i witnessed in New York too. And the city....i remember telling him after we had lunch in a pub in the city district that the next Patrick Bateman would be british.

What i loved about London was how mixed it was, it gave the city some kind of energy but now it's only super mega rich people and that put the city to sleep. It's too clean, too "american" for my taste. It broke my heart because just like with New York i felt like i was robbed of something that made me and no longer exists. Paris is going through the same process, the gay quarter Le Marais, is slowly turning into Bond Street, bars are been chased out and replaced by LVMH stores.

What made cities like Paris, London and New york so great was how mixed they were, not only because of immigration but also because of the different social classes living there.

Madonna could never make it today in New York the way she did 40 years ago. She couldn't afford to live there and all the people that surrounded her, artists basically, couldn't either. It's shame because these are the people who made New York.

As for Europe, to me it's meaningless without the UK, just like it would be meaningless without Germany. The idea of creating a unified Europe came after WWII to put an end to centuries of wars and invasions, to have a common goal. We are a family, like brothers and sisters but with different personalities that clash sometimes like it happens in families.

I did not have the time to interview people about Brexit because i'm so enthralled in the aftermath of the floods at my mother's and having to deal with insurance and all that my work is seriously impacted. I've been asked by my editor but i don't have enough time.

I am close to the french green party, i know several key members but the party itself has gone to shit because of egos and scandals (rape) that it's now an empty shell.A close friend ran for the 8th district of Paris under Melenchon (far left) but i can't stand the man. His ego and bad attitude are repulsive.

I no longer trust socialists because they are now more center right than left.

I'm pretty sure if you ask people about Europe they would agree that it's great theorically but they'll admit it's now fucked up.

Nationalism and populism is really strong in every western country now and especially in Europe so i doubt people would feel Europe. There's a huge identity crisis in countries around Europe. They probably want an EU with countries like UK, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Danemark, Netherlands....because they have money and they feel they are on the same level of wealth but ask them about Greece, small eastern countries etc...even Spain or Portugal and they'll tell you that they think they are pulling them down. Remain campaigners should have ointed out all the benefits the UK got from joining the EU because this seems all but forgotten to only remember the shitty things they got out of it. Same thing in every country in the EU. Like Karbatal said in Spain and in Portugal they are more against Merkel and her austerity policy than they are against the EU. Cameron asked for more austerity in the UK but the EU commission told him to be measured.

Thing is the way the EU works is so complicated and opaque that it's easy for governments to tell their fellow countrymen that the bullshit they put in place were in fact forced on them by the EU so this way they don't take the blame and since it's hard to understand how the EU commission works which makes people suspicious, it worked perfectly but in Cameron's case backfired in his face.

What Cameron did is beyond amateur, like he does not know his own country and the struggles of common brits outside of London. How poverty has spread in the north and small towns on the coasts. How removed they feel with shitty public services. Populist media just seized their exasperation and used it for their own agendas. Of course people with small pensions and on benefit will go mad if they are told again and again that migrants live large with large amounts of money being given to them (even though it's not totally true and more complicated than that). They feel left out. It's easy to play them. People who are going to run the country are the ones who wanted out but not for the same reasons the lower class wanted out. It's business as usual and personal interests. They just wanted their votes but they won't be doing anyhting for them because if this was their intetions they would have done something before and not let all these cities go to shit. Of course they are not going to put the money in the NHS, they are going to sell the NHS to private corporations like Goldman Sachs (the culprits for the economic crisis) because that's what they always did before and now they have full control to go further that road.

Immigration is at the forefront of every elections in Europe. During the 2012 presidential election in France it completly took over the debate, a very racist and ugly campaign. Next year it will be even worst.

The way the EU dealt with migrants, completly unorganized, unprepared and amateur will only fuel xenophobia and racism.

The head of the french special services just resigned and said that we are on the verge of a civil war because of far right extremist groups getting organized. They focused their attention so much on islamists that they did not pay enough attention to these fascists organizations getting more and more powerful and infiltrating the Police and the Army.

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Guest Rachelle of London

Roland I can read your posts all day.

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.... it's easy for governments to tell their fellow countrymen that the bullshit they put in place were in fact forced on them by the EU so this way they don't take the blame and since it's hard to understand how the EU commission works which makes people suspicious, it worked perfectly but in Cameron's case backfired in his face.

What Cameron did is beyond amateur, like he does not know his own country and the struggles of common brits outside of London. How poverty has spread in the north and small towns on the coasts. How removed they feel with shitty public services. Populist media just seized their exasperation and used it for their own agendas. Of course people with small pensions and on benefit will go mad if they are told again and again that migrants live large with large amounts of money being given to them (even though it's not totally true and more complicated than that). They feel left out. It's easy to play them. People who are going to run the country are the ones who wanted out but not for the same reasons the lower class wanted out. It's business as usual and personal interests. They just wanted their votes but they won't be doing anyhting for them because if this was their intetions they would have done something before and not let all these cities go to shit. Of course they are not going to put the money in the NHS, they are going to sell the NHS to private corporations like Goldman Sachs (the culprits for the economic crisis) because that's what they always did before and now they have full control to go further that road.

Immigration is at the forefront of every elections in Europe. During the 2012 presidential election in France it completly took over the debate, a very racist and ugly campaign. Next year it will be even worst.

The way the EU dealt with migrants, completly unorganized, unprepared and amateur will only fuel xenophobia and racism.

Spot fucking on! That's why most people I know including myself are completely INCENSED by what happened to our country yesterday. Hoodwinked - hook, line and sinker.

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I have an american accent because i've been to the US regularly since i was 14 (both my sisters are american citizens) and lived there for 2 years. When i lived in London i had a hard time with cockney accent. My first week working in a restaurant i almost cried every day because i sometimes did not understand a damn word. But people were always amazed i did not have a french accent, which i can do on purpose though.I even worked as an interpreter for 8 years (i started in NYC).

Last time i was in London (4 years ago) i absolutely hated what it had become. I was amazed that everywhere i went to from the moment i left the station, i heard people speak french :lol: but that's not what bothered me. I used to live in the west end, in the nice part of Earl's Court (redcliff sq) and work in South Ken so i was already used to see rich people flash their wealth but last time it was everywhere. I found everything to be very expensive. My London have all moved out of town because of this. They started moving to the east end 10 years ago, around Hoxton and in the following further in the east as rent and gentrification was chasing them out.

I was with a friend who is a club promoter in Paris and we went to London to see how were the parties (and to show him where i used to live). We were crushed to see how expensive it was to go out to party. Most of the people in clubs were rich kids posing. No fun at all. A far cry from whay i had known and loved about London. It's something i witnessed in New York too. And the city....i remember telling him after we had lunch in a pub in the city district that the next Patrick Bateman would be british.

What i loved about London was how mixed it was, it gave the city some kind of energy but now it's only super mega rich people and that put the city to sleep. It's too clean, too "american" for my taste. It broke my heart because just like with New York i felt like i was robbed of something that made me and no longer exists. Paris is going through the same process, the gay quarter Le Marais, is slowly turning into Bond Street, bars are been chased out and replaced by LVMH stores.

What made cities like Paris, London and New york so great was how mixed they were, not only because of immigration but also because of the different social classes living there.

Madonna could never make it today in New York the way she did 40 years ago. She couldn't afford to live there and all the people that surrounded her, artists basically, couldn't either. It's shame because these are the people who made New York.

As for Europe, to me it's meaningless without the UK, just like it would be meaningless without Germany. The idea of creating a unified Europe came after WWII to put an end to centuries of wars and invasions, to have a common goal. We are a family, like brothers and sisters but with different personalities that clash sometimes like it happens in families.

I did not have the time to interview people about Brexit because i'm so enthralled in the aftermath of the floods at my mother's and having to deal with insurance and all that my work is seriously impacted. I've been asked by my editor but i don't have enough time.

I am close to the french green party, i know several key members but the party itself has gone to shit because of egos and scandals (rape) that it's now an empty shell.A close friend ran for the 8th district of Paris under Melenchon (far left) but i can't stand the man. His ego and bad attitude are repulsive.

I no longer trust socialists because they are now more center right than left.

I'm pretty sure if you ask people about Europe they would agree that it's great theorically but they'll admit it's now fucked up.

Nationalism and populism is really strong in every western country now and especially in Europe so i doubt people would feel Europe. There's a huge identity crisis in countries around Europe. They probably want an EU with countries like UK, Germany, Norway, Sweden, Danemark, Netherlands....because they have money and they feel they are on the same level of wealth but ask them about Greece, small eastern countries etc...even Spain or Portugal and they'll tell you that they think they are pulling them down. Remain campaigners should have ointed out all the benefits the UK got from joining the EU because this seems all but forgotten to only remember the shitty things they got out of it. Same thing in every country in the EU. Like Karbatal said in Spain and in Portugal they are more against Merkel and her austerity policy than they are against the EU. Cameron asked for more austerity in the UK but the EU commission told him to be measured.

Thing is the way the EU works is so complicated and opaque that it's easy for governments to tell their fellow countrymen that the bullshit they put in place were in fact forced on them by the EU so this way they don't take the blame and since it's hard to understand how the EU commission works which makes people suspicious, it worked perfectly but in Cameron's case backfired in his face.

What Cameron did is beyond amateur, like he does not know his own country and the struggles of common brits outside of London. How poverty has spread in the north and small towns on the coasts. How removed they feel with shitty public services. Populist media just seized their exasperation and used it for their own agendas. Of course people with small pensions and on benefit will go mad if they are told again and again that migrants live large with large amounts of money being given to them (even though it's not totally true and more complicated than that). They feel left out. It's easy to play them. People who are going to run the country are the ones who wanted out but not for the same reasons the lower class wanted out. It's business as usual and personal interests. They just wanted their votes but they won't be doing anyhting for them because if this was their intetions they would have done something before and not let all these cities go to shit. Of course they are not going to put the money in the NHS, they are going to sell the NHS to private corporations like Goldman Sachs (the culprits for the economic crisis) because that's what they always did before and now they have full control to go further that road.

Immigration is at the forefront of every elections in Europe. During the 2012 presidential election in France it completly took over the debate, a very racist and ugly campaign. Next year it will be even worst.

The way the EU dealt with migrants, completly unorganized, unprepared and amateur will only fuel xenophobia and racism.

The head of the french special services just resigned and said that we are on the verge of a civil war because of far right extremist groups getting organized. They focused their attention so much on islamists that they did not pay enough attention to these fascists organizations getting more and more powerful and infiltrating the Police and the Army.

I feel like you're using a fine nibbed pen to write me a letter while you smoke a cigarette in an atmospheric Parisian boudoir. As the letter arrives I take it out of the wax sealed envelope and read it in the bathtub with a glass of red wine.

In other words I loved it. :lol:

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No it's not. The far left (Melenchon) is also against Europe.

I don't think people are against Europe per say but against THIS Europe, what it has become, what lobbies and bankers made it.

In 2005 we voted against the european constitution which two years later Sarkozy via Parliament ignored and agreed to ratify.

This was a major turndown in public opinion about elections in general and made us not trust our leaders.

The turnout for the vote was massive (69%) and the NO won by 55% of the votes. Not taking into account what the people voted for was a terrible mistake.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_European_Constitution_referendum,_2005

Even people who are devasted by the Brexit don't trust or want THIS Europe. We are all aware of the manipulations and lobbies running it for their own sake.

That said what Cameron did was completly amateur and not well thought.

He gave power to another bunch of assholes. Brits will no longer be fucked by the european parliament but by the brit far right and establishment. I don't expect things to get better for people outside of the big cities especially London. There's a huge class divide in England and the class that will most likely run the country is not the lower class that voted massively for OUT.

They used immigration to rally people but now there are talks of renegociating the contracts between France and the UK that put France in charge of protecting the UK borders. If that happens, England will be on its own to stop immigration. People in Calais are so fed up and organized that they'll probably pressure the government about it and the government already started talking about it days before the Brexit results.

Brilliantly balanced post :thumbsup: And a great snapshot of the situation in general

The situation is more or less the same in Italy, we have the Northern League party that is a populist, right-wing aligned independentist party (Independence of the north of Italy from the rest of the peninsula and islands, bizzarre) similar to Farrage's UKip party as far as EU matters go.

People are tired of austerity and getting vexed upon but even more so than with the UK's case, France, Italy and Spain among others have the added burden of the monetary issue, so maybe people should work towards changing the EU as it is rather than think in terms of "fuck the EU let's get out of it overnight" because that has MASSIVE ramifications, geopolitically and in terms of global economics. It needs being well thought out, planned and executed in advance and knowing what you will do after getting out of it, which is the main criticism of those citizens, British or not that don't think the UK leaving is good news for any European nationality and as a knock off effect, any nationality in the world

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fo us in spain, to be in the EU was like joining a club of rich and democratic countries.Everything was going to better for us, at least for my generation, thye´ve been selling us that for decades since 1986.Maybe even before, but I was too young to remember something.Even when people weren´t interested in the european elections, or when we didn´t agree with something they have decided, to be in the unhiuon was seen as something really good, at least in the media.The euro making everything way more expensive has been the only real big complain about EU,some people were complaining about the TTIP´s negotiation, some people were not happy with other countries entering the union or trying to enter the union(turkie especially)... but nothing serious. It´s funny, Iñm sure most of the people inj spain doesn´t know who the president is, maybe that´s why we always blame merkel? at least there is a person, a face, a name, to be blamed for all our problems.

somebody has pointed it somewhere, a lot of our politicians have been blaming european union for a lot of bad things, as if they couldn´t do anything to avoid anything, as when you blame the bad weather...

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People are tired of austerity and getting vexed upon but even more so than with the UK's case, France, Italy and Spain among others have the added burden of the monetary issue, so maybe people should work towards changing the EU as it is rather than think in terms of "fuck the EU let's get out of it overnight" because that has MASSIVE ramifications, geopolitically and in terms of global economics. It needs being well thought out, planned and executed in advance and knowing what you will do after getting out of it, which is the main criticism of those citizens, British or not that don't think the UK leaving is good news for any European nationality and as a knock off effect, any nationality in the world

It's not overnight. It's over TWO YEARS. Wasn't it the EU asking the UK to get out ASAP?

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