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BREXIT vote aftermath

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It's all such an embarassing and unnecessary mess!

Britain is like the guy who files for divorce but doesnt have his own place yet so he stays in the joint apartment and wants to take his time to find a new place.

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While XXL was foaming at the mouth most others were humble. Karbatal even joked about the fact that they pay much less into the EU than we do. I was pleasantly surprised to see humility like that from him.

How generous of you to be "pleasantly surprised"! :rotfl: Condescension alert number 460248. Everyone should be more humble, like GU, you know.

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Congratulations for showing who you are. I am delighted to be called a "moron" by someone so intellectually stimulating that cannot even grasp simple political legislation concepts nor understand what people really say here.

The name calling started from you, I did not name-called you by the way nor I labelled anyone "weak fighters". How convenient to put words in people mouths when ignorance of one (not me) prevails.

Adios

tumblr_inline_moskyunlin1qz4rgp.gif

And now put me in that ignore list as you said. I thought i had got ridden of YOU

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The fact we cannot have a civilized talk about this among (majorly) EU citizens shows how utopic the EU is.

Here in France statistics show that the disastrous way the EU and each country members deals with illegal immigration have pushed first generations immigrants and their children to vote for Le Pen. The portuguese are one of the biggest community in France and latest polls show that 90% (90% !) of first and second generation portuguese living in France, under 35, are voting for Le Pen. When you talk to legal migrants about new migrants, they are the most racist and xenophobic persons because they feel they are now targeted by politics because of them and want to distance themselves from them.

The EU did not have a plan for refugees, the US did not get involved. It took months of people dying in the mediterranean sea and crossing borders by foot before Merkel finally took upon herself to make a decision, nobody in the EU wanted to take the blame for welcoming refugees and waited for someone to speak first so they wouldn't upset voters.

What's going in Calais and in the center of Paris is terrible. Every country from the EU rejects responsability on its neighbour, hoping migrants are just passing and won't stay. We all know they want to go to England because they speak english, already have family there and social aid is better organized.

It's the hot potato every country within EU is passing one another. This lead to brits voting the Brexit (even is some just voted against Cameron austerity policy).

Some people made (make) a fortune with oil and gas by fucking up the situation in the middle east, making special armed groups, throwing money and weapons at them so they can control the access to oil and gas. FOR YEARS, some of them are the same ones who fucked up the economy for their own benefit too (bank of america.....), same ones who lobby against laws trying to regulate world pollution....we all know the biggest countries on earth are involved in an economic war against each others to control oil (China& Russia and allies like Turkey VS The USA and allies namely) and locals in the middle east just like people around the world are just pawns in their crazy chess game of power and ego. We are just collateral damages.

These people fucked up the world and did everything they could to bring down the EU, to not let it be a force in itself.

It's baffling how some EU members are rejoicing at seeing the brits leave and even wanting them to leave asap while common brits are still knocked out by the Brexit. When i see that, it's hard for me to believe in unity. It's like people enjoy the misery of others. I had laready witnessed that with Greece. Truth is, it's coming up for every country within the EU because it's like dominos.

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The fact we cannot have a civilized talk about this among (majorly) EU citizens shows how utopic the EU is.

Here in France statistics show that the disastrous way the EU and each country members deals with illegal immigration have pushed first generations immigrants and their children to vote for Le Pen. The portuguese are one of the biggest community in France and latest polls show that 90% (90% !) of first and second generation portuguese living in France, under 35, are voting for Le Pen. When you talk to legal migrants about new migrants, they are the most racist and xenophobic persons because they feel they are now targeted by politics because of them and want to distance themselves from them.

The EU did not have a plan for refugees, the US did not get involved. It took months of people dying in the mediterranean sea and crossing borders by foot before Merkel finally took upon herself to make a decision, nobody in the EU wanted to take the blame for welcoming refugees and waited for someone to speak first so they wouldn't upset voters.

What's going in Calais and in the center of Paris is terrible. Every country from the EU rejects responsability on its neighbour, hoping migrants are just passing and won't stay. We all know they want to go to England because they speak english, already have family there and social aid is better organized.

It's the hot potato every country within EU is passing one another. This lead to brits voting the Brexit (even is some just voted against Cameron austerity policy).

Some people made (make) a fortune with oil and gas by fucking up the situation in the middle east, making special armed groups, throwing money and weapons at them so they can control the access to oil and gas. FOR YEARS, some of them are the same ones who fucked up the economy for their own benefit too (bank of america.....), same ones who lobby against laws trying to regulate world pollution....we all know the biggest countries on earth are involved in an economic war against each others to control oil (China& Russia and allies like Turkey VS The USA and allies namely) and locals in the middle east just like people around the world are just pawns in their crazy chess game of power and ego. We are just collateral damages.

These people fucked up the world and did everything they could to bring down the EU, to not let it be a force in itself.

It's baffling how some EU members are rejoicing at seeing the brits leave and even wanting them to leave asap while common brits are still knocked out by the Brexit. When i see that, it's hard for me to believe in unity. It's like people enjoy the misery of others. I had laready witnessed that with Greece. Truth is, it's coming up for every country within the EU because it's like dominos.

Love your posts. So well said!

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/06/24/brexit-vote-gives-renewed-drive-to-australian-republican-movem/

The Australian Republican Movement, which advocates for an independent Australia, said its membership swelled over the weekend, renewing desires to leave the Commonwealth

silly question here but whats the common wealth??

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/06/24/brexit-vote-gives-renewed-drive-to-australian-republican-movem/

The Australian Republican Movement, which advocates for an independent Australia, said its membership swelled over the weekend, renewing desires to leave the Commonwealth

silly question here but whats the common wealth??

You're from the United Kingdom and you don't know what the Commonwealth is?

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These people fucked up the world and did everything they could to bring down the EU, to not let it be a force in itself.

Precisely, and people like Cameron are just doing the bidding of those very same individuals and lobby groups. He used the referendum to resolve a party internal issue that's manifested itself in the Labour party as well. He and Boris, however differently oriented their campaigns were, were not expecting this result

Hence why an interest in more "informal talks" has been expressed, which is an absurdity in itself, given that the referendum is a formal instrument, not an informal one.

Merkel was absolutely balanced in her pronouncements. Other EU bureaucrats might have been less balanced but what she said is the reality of the situation. Cameron said that he would trigger Article 50 as soon as a successful LEAVE vote scenario would manifest itself, yet he's now not following through with that, because he was not expecting this result but just planned to use the referendum to recalibrate his own party issues, and he knows that Britain in the eventuality of a Leave win was never going to be in a position of demanding single market access while scrapping Brussels directives on immigration and refugees that all other 27 members have to subscribe to and enforce

I don't think any other EU member in this thread is rejoycing at the outcome of this referendum, because Britain is a vital and historical part of European culture and identity, and it's been a member of its equivalent political construct the EU (however disfunctional it is) for 43 years, almost since its inception basically.

But people from other EU nationalities have every right to point out what is now as clear as day, i.e. those very same British politicians that lied to their electorate in regards to the real reason why they were giving people the possibility to choose on such a delicate issue, are now shitting themselves because they don't know what to say to the EU, since getting out was NEVER their real intention and there was never going to be a way where Britain could still continue to be a part of the single market while having a whole different set of rules on immigration.

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/2016/06/24/brexit-vote-gives-renewed-drive-to-australian-republican-movem/

The Australian Republican Movement, which advocates for an independent Australia, said its membership swelled over the weekend, renewing desires to leave the Commonwealth

silly question here but whats the common wealth??

Countries that have The Queen as the head of state.

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Talking of Australia, there is a lot of talk about how this effects us. As we are a Commonwealth country, there is debate on how does Britain really see us or value us.

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My utopia dream is at the bases of our universe. You can criticise it or go against as much as you like but the day will come. It's a very long and slow process but it will happen in the end. It's the project on this planet. Whether you're part of it or not it's irrelevant to me.

As the song goes: you might say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one. I hope someday you'll join us and the world will be as one.

Honey you were just suggesting new targets for bombers. :lmao:

But it's the attitude of Merkel to be inappropriate now. Isn't it? How dare she suggest the UK will not be allowed to cherry pick after all the cherry picking that's already gone down during the last 20 years, the currency and Schengen just two examples of it.

What am I hoping to achieve here going on and on? :rotfl: I don't have to achieve anything in this thread. I am just contributing to a discussion and not attacking people, going as far as using personal attacks.

You are looking for attention as usual instead. And being vague and evasive about the arguments presented because "Britain had an Empire" and this was "an exercise in democracy" but fail to put into its actual global context.

Again, the five main points are:

1.what is the real reason why Cameron called the referendum

2.what was going to change anyway if Britain now has to subscribe to any Brussels directive the way non EU member Norway has had to for years, regardless of the referendum result

3.why has Boris suddenly gone so quiet?

4.why do they now want more informal talks, if the referendum project was a very formal instrument from the get go?

5.how was this referendum an exercise in democracy but Sturgeon's post outcome remarks are not making things easier for the predominant LEAVE campaigners in England? Is her stance on the matter any less democratic than the referendum itself? You can't have it both ways

What are you even talking about? I never mentioned our Empire ONCE! :dead: DA FUQ? I wasn't actually referring to Merkel specifically. Her reasoning seems kind of balanced. The moment I referred to was Jean Claude Juncker saying the following. The reality is that most of the legislation passed that British Politics didn't like was passed by him and he will definitely come under fire because of that.

Look at the lack of booing when Farrage was talking his shit 18 months ago.

Don't you think that it's a little strange how different the reaction is? The people representing these European countries are fearful and it's understandable. Throughout history it has been repeatedly noted that people feel 'safer' as part of an empire. Okay this isn't one of the great Empires of old but it is certainly a political empire. These Politcians are mostly scared about their position, their wage and their work load. Understandably. Unfortunately they see the best course of action as spreading fear and I'm not okay with that. It's all self serving bullshit and the people running around like headless chickens are only doing the bidding of these gross people.

What does that even mean? Why would you be using the third person? :blink:

You are European too. Unless you think the UK is in Asia, Africa, Oceania or a part of the American continent

I'm not saying I love myself, that's why I am using the third person. So thanks for the grammar lesson but no thanks. The whole of Britain and Ireland is yes a part of Europe. I'm not distancing myself or Britain from Europe. I'm distancing Politics from people. So unfortunately your focus was quite different to mine and therefore you interpreted my words quite incorrectly.

Answers to your five burning questions:

1) Cameron called the referendum because the media was giving increasing coverage to the leave campaign. More and more prominent Politicians and personalities were supporting leave and Cameron had a point to prove. He wanted to show his conviction and his support for the EU. I think the majority of people expected a remain vote. It's impossible to qualify the validity of votes. Who knows the reason each and every one of the 34.5 million votes were cast? Nobody. So if we're going to question the background knowledge behind a vote then we could equally do the same for remain. It's just trite and a distraction tactic at best to talk about it. We live in a democratic society. People were given the right to vote. The vote happened. A result was derived from it. The end. What else matters?

2) That hasn't happened yet and may not happen at all. The rule of the European Union is flexible (to use a kind word) with many countries. Why shouldn't it be flexible for us? I mean, you haven't even given me an answer as to why it's okay for Lichtenstein and the Vatican city and not us. How about the fact that France and Germany have several times broken the conditions of the Stability and Growth pact? I hope you have a fantastic reason why that's okay. You will not though. There isn't one. Still, I expect you to outline your answer for me. Even if those agreements (relating to trade and freedom to travel) are reinstated it WILL still have an impact on trade most certainly. There is legislation passed that prohibits fishing by British citizens in British waters. That will be gone. Smaller businesses will have more freedom to grow because they won't be expected to follow the same rule that Google and other multi million pound businesses will. I prefer our legislation on animal farming too. European legislation on animal slaughter/farming verges on cruel (in my eyes) and I don't want that happening here. So yes, there are plenty of positives to come from it.

3) Boris has 'gone quiet' because he is in talks with his Political PR group and his supporters in order to proceed with his campaign as best as possible. There are 3 other potential candidates with an extra 2 outsiders. He will most likely receive the position I would imagine. He is going to want to become a recognised Prime Minister because despite being a bit of a clown I think he is quite serious about change. One thing I will say that I like about Boris is that he isn't afraid to get stuck in. He doesn't just go and smile with kids. He goes and plays Rugby with them and knocks them down. :rotfl: He is committed at least.

4) You can't have an informal referendum. :lol: I don't even get what you're trying to say. It makes no sense. The talks are informal because that's what happens in the preparatory stage of legislation passing. You discuss your point of view in order to bring around opposition to that viewpoint so that the opposition either passes the legislation or allows it to be passed. Don't you think Politicians have 'informal' talks all of the time? They're colleagues. They're humans. What do you expect? As a Political representative your job is to get the best result for your representation. That's what a leader does. You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. :sassy:

5) I find that Sturgeon isn't respecting democracy. She is actually encouraging a divide in order to become a prime minister of a country rather than first minister of Scotland. She earns £140k a year btw. She isn't some kind of freedom fighter. She is a Politician just like any other. I find her support for the separation of Scotland the equivalent of flip flopping. Just like she told Scottish people before that they deserved autonomy and needed to break free she is doing it again in the hopes that she will be a grown up Prime Minister. Ironic considering that she is criticising the UK for its decision to leave the EU. The hypocrisy is evident. She doesn't believe in Democracy if she is stating that the Scottish people only want the result of a democratic vote if it suits them. Let me break it down for you.

Britain is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Scotland democratically voted to remain part of the United Kingdom.

Britain democratically votes to leave EU.

Scotland's majority didn't vote to leave EU.

Therefore she now expects a referendum to leave the United Kingdom so that she can join the European Union.

That's not democracy. That's called being a twelve year old brat. Some other important information:

Scotland has a population of 5,000,000 while England has a population of 53,000,000. Both countries had around a 70% turnout of voters. Here is the result of the Scottish vote.

Remain: 1,661,191

Leave: 1,018,322

So that's a 62% majority. The media will report it as the VAST MAJORITY (as if no Scottish person voted leave) and so will Sturgeon. THAT is why this isn't respectful to democracy. No matter the result it should still be respected. Otherwise we might as well just start living marshall law and do what the fuck we want. Why not? :-/ Any more questions?

P.S Looking forward to your answer on why France, Germany, Lichtenstein and Vatican city are allowed to Cherry pick but we aren't. :kiss2:

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You're from the United Kingdom and you don't know what the Commonwealth is?

am from Northern Ireland which is geographically part or Ireland and thereforeconsider myself Irish not British despite what our Politicians here (who want to be British when it suits them) say, this is the first I've heard of the commonwealth tbh and thank you jazzyjam for explaining :)

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Besides the Queen, Commonwealth shares a special market and commercial connections isn't it?

Don't understand what has the Commonwealth to do with the Brexit

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am from Northern Ireland which is geographically part or Ireland and thereforeconsider myself Irish not British despite what our Politicians here (who want to be British when it suits them) say, this is the first I've heard of the commonwealth tbh and thank you jazzyjam for explaining :)

My pleasure Brendan. Love reading your thoughts and posts.

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Britain is like the guy who files for divorce but doesnt have his own place yet so he stays in the joint apartment and wants to take his time to find a new place.

This! :lmao:

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These people fucked up the world and did everything they could to bring down the EU, to not let it be a force in itself.

Maybe the key to a better world is actually to devolve the governments of huge countries like the US, Russian and China into smaller local governments. I'm all for one world, one love. I'm just not sure about the logistics of it at times. I mean, the U.S has such a strange legal system. A state can have different laws to other states but if the federal law body decides to prosecute you for breaking a law that contradicts with state law then you're prosecuted. Do we need superpowers?

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This! :lmao:

I don't think Britain wants to hang around. If anything Britain is the bf that has to stay to console it's sobbing ex while trying to organise an amicable split. The ex is telling him she loves him and then throwing a vase moments later. The point is that MEP's are gonna wanna try and make an example of Britain in order to scare other member countries. I don't think that's a good thing or funny. I feel sad for some of the countries in the EU (especially the smaller ones).

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... It's not about eating humble pies or being sore losers.. It's about the state of a country which is refusing to conform with the rest of the world...

Younger voters arguing conformity. "Older voters" rattling the establishment. Interesting times this 2016.

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Talking of Australia, there is a lot of talk about how this effects us. As we are a Commonwealth country, there is debate on how does Britain really see us or value us.

Regarding the commonwealth my elder sister lives in the bvi's and she told me the airpot was built on EU fundings. It's a tax haven. The airport used to be this old Ikea store like where you used to go through customs on the tarmac, now it's this huge airport, too big for such a tiny island and it's operating at lost.

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Besides the Queen, Commonwealth shares a special market and commercial connections isn't it?

Don't understand what has the Commonwealth to do with the Brexit

It is more to go with Commonwealth countries association with Britain For example, whatever happens in England is always news in Australia. This is going way back but Australia and New Zealand fought in both World Wars due to being In the Commonwealth. Australia and Britain have a huge history and relationship so whatever involves them, becomes a major talking point here. Although we are naturally not in the EU, being in the Commonwealth makes it an issue by default.

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am gonna sound like a dumb blonde but is that why Australia has been in eurovision the past two years because it's in the commonwealth? which btw i think is awesome and about time eurovision included an outsider, i love an underdog

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Is this thread at forty pages yet? What a mess. You can't have a conversation around here without an insult. So much for tolerance and understanding. I'm sticking to the "Madonna should go brunette" threads.

Joke!

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am gonna sound like a dumb blonde but is that why Australia has been in eurovision the past two years because it's in the commonwealth? which btw i think is awesome and about time eurovision included an outsider, i love an underdog

Brendan, mainly due to Australia loving Eurovision so much for decades. It has a massive cult following. We have joked about wanting to enter it for years so was a shock when we were allowed. Technically we should not be allowed to enter but we love that we are now.

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Please notice that pjcowley doesn't answer the direct question, so if in next pages he stills critisizes those who want to accept the results, we will have to ask again.

For the record, I know PJ and I know that he has a lot of interesting things to say. He's also extremely kind and considerate. Karb, you're barking up the wrong tree. Get a grip.

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I love PJcowley as well. Contributes a lot to this forum and is a wonderful Madonna fan.

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