BREXIT vote aftermath

[Barney]

Life with open eyes is education. There are (some) cocky people that brag about their degrees and teaching degrees when really they made colourful ashtrays on an arts course and got pissed.

[Kim]

But that's wall authocracy, not democracy.

What we have to demand is good media and a society who learns to think critically, instead of this mess. But that's a utopia, of course.

If you didn't have half the users in this thread on ignore, you'd probably have understood what he meant (I hope)

[billiejean]

The beauty of democracy is that the working class who might not be as university book smart as those in parliament or those upper-classes are equal in the vote. People are smart in different ways, we experience different lives on the same land, and a democracy allows everyone from different experiences to have a say.

[promise to try]

How come they've released Corbyns voting information?

isn´t the vote secret??

[Kim]

isn´t the vote secret??

They didn't release it obviously. He supposedly refused to publicly say what he voted. But he's like that... a bit cantankerous.

[promise to try]

But that's wall authocracy, not democracy.

What we have to demand is good media and a society who learns to think critically, instead of this mess. But that's a utopia, of course.

utopia? it´s a must!!!!

the problem is that the mukltyinacionals and all the corporations have all the power

[Kim]

The beauty of democracy is that the working class who might not be as university book smart as those in parliament or those upper-classes are equal in the vote. People are smart in different ways, we experience different lives on the same land, and a democracy allows everyone from different experiences to have a say.

And yet everyone just spectacularly made Ai Papi Si's very point.

Hilarious.

[Ai Papi Si.]

What is a true education and a grasp on economics in your eyes?

I have a meager grasp on the subject and even I see the fallacy in cheering (or panicking) over a market move. This isn't something you can paint a picture of in a few days.

In other words let's stop pretending we know what's happening and let the chips fall over the next 2 years. Economists make educated projections. You can't expect them to make fabulous projections of the state of an economy that just sliced off one of its metaphorical limbs. That said maybe the fallout wont be awful. We don't know. But there will be some fallout. Accept it now.

[Guest]

I have a meager grasp on the subject and even I see the fallacy in cheering (or panicking) over a market move. This isn't something you can paint a picture of in a few days.

In other words let's stop pretending we know what's happening and let the chips fall over the next 2 years. Economists make educated projections. You can't expect them to make fabulous projections of the state of an economy that just sliced off one of its metaphorical limbs. That said maybe the fallout wont be awful. We don't know. But there will be some fallout. Accept it now.

So we have to wait for the chips to fall except for we must accept the fall out now? Alright Miguel.

[Guest CzarnaWisnia]

[XXL]

Because as leader of the Labour party it was his job to rally and get the STAY message across to Labour supporters. He couldn't have been more meandering or on the fence for the majority of the campaign (he's actually very Eurosceptic) As it happened, the Labour heartlands in the north and midlands voted for LEAVE as the scare-mongering tactics of that campaign hit home a lot more than whatever ineffective campaign Labour were running. All they saw was a Tory PM telling then what to do while the other side riled them up to stand up for themselves, take back the country blah blah. Digging that hole for them to all jump into.

He rightly has to take the blame for some of that. He also presides over a party in turmoil. He's a traditional Labour guy with socialist leanings, leading a party divided between New Labour Blairites and grass roots traditionalists.

Labour's shift to the centre politically over the last 20 years has resulted in no effective left of centre party remaining UK wide. Hence the SNPs rise to the top in Scotland and unfortunately for the rest of the UK, they are stuck with the Tories for the foreseeable future ie. FOREVER... until an effective opposition party takes them on. Labour in its current form, isn't it.

Corbyn, as nice a guy as he is, and as sound as some of his politics are, is not a great leader or tactician. He doesn't have it in him to heal the divides within his own party, nevermind the divide of the country. He'll be gone soon.

Thank you. I understand better now the outcome the result is having on party politics on both sides. Perhaps exactly because party politics is the original reason behind having called a referendum on the subject to begin with, when Cameron was under no obligation to.

[Gaudet]

Britain no longer deserves a top credit rating

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/jun/27/pound-shares-markets-brexit-crisis-osborne-lew-business-live

Fitch says it has downgraded Britain’s credit rating from AA+ to AA because the decision to leave the EU will have “a negative impact on the UK economy, public finances and political continuity.”

The rating agency warns that Britain faces an “abrupt slowdown in short-term GDP growth”, as businesses defer investment while tehy wonder how the Brexit vote will affect them.

Fitch has revised down its forecast for real GDP growth to 1.6% in 2016 (from 1.9%), 0.9% in 2017 and 0.9% in 2018 (both from 2.0% respectively), leaving the level of real GDP a cumulative 2.3% lower in 2018 than in its prior ‘Remain’ base case.

Fitch also fears that medium-term growth will also likely be weaker, as Britain will find it harder to export to the EU. Lower immigration, and a fall in investment from overseas, will also hurt the economy, as could a weaker pound.

Statements by UK and EU leaders will provide some guidance on the UK government’s policy objectives, the likelihood of achieving them and the timeframe for negotiation. However, Prime Minister David Cameron has indicated that negotiations with the EU will not begin in earnest until 4Q16, and the final position may well not be known for several years.

The outcome of the referendum has precipitated political upheaval, including the announced resignation of the Prime Minister, contributing to heightened uncertainty over government economic policies and diminished scope for policy implementation at the current conjuncture.

Furthermore, the fact that a majority of voters in Scotland opted for ‘Remain’ makes a second referendum on Scottish independence more probable in the short to medium term. The Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has indicated that a second referendum on Scottish independence is “highly likely”. A vote for independence would be negative for the UK’s rating, as it would lead to a rise in the ratio of government debt/GDP, increase the size of the UK’s external balance sheet and potentially generate uncertainty in the banking system, for example in the event of uncertainty over Scotland’s currency arrangement.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2016/jun/27/pound-shares-markets-brexit-crisis-osborne-lew-business-live?page=with:block-57718913e4b030d83eb4accc#block-57718913e4b030d83eb4accc

[Apples388]

I wouldn't worry too much about that (yet).

The media is having a field day but some of it is hysterical overreaction.

[Rebel Saviour]

England is out of EURO 2016 too

[Apples388]

Well deserved. Shit team, shit sport, shit everything. Thank goodness I never have to hear about this fucking thing for the rest of the summer!!

[pieciolot]

Iceland triggered Article 50 on England 😂

[Apples388]

LOL

[runa]

I wouldn't worry too much about that (yet).

The media is having a field day but some of it is hysterical overreaction.

I agree. Always the same. Always quick to frighten people.

[Roland Barthes]

As if banks would let England sink. Too much money at stake....especially theirs.

[XXL]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36644211

EU leaders reject informal talks with UK

The European Union will not hold informal talks with the UK until it triggers Article 50 to leave, Germany, France and Italy have insisted.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel hosted talks with French President Francois Hollande and Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi in Berlin.

The leaders called for a "new impulse" to strengthen the EU.

Last Thursday, British citizens voted 52-48 in favour of leaving the EU in a historic referendum.

Together with the UK, Germany, France and Italy have the largest economies in the EU.

Two ratings agencies, S&P and Fitch, downgraded the UK on Monday. A rating downgrade can affect how much it costs governments to borrow money in the international financial markets.

[XXL]

U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron addressed members of Parliament on the EU referendum result on Monday, saying it was not the outcome he wanted but that the result must be respected and implemented in "best possible way."

----------------------------------------------------

Britain's vote on its membership in the European Union did not come out the way President Obama hoped, but "we respect the rights of the voters," U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnGI2fRWqmg

[Guest]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36644211

EU leaders reject informal talks with UK

The European Union will not hold informal talks with the UK until it triggers Article 50 to leave, Germany, France and Italy have insisted.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel hosted talks with French President Francois Hollande and Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi in Berlin.

The leaders called for a "new impulse" to strengthen the EU.

Last Thursday, British citizens voted 52-48 in favour of leaving the EU in a historic referendum.

Together with the UK, Germany, France and Italy have the largest economies in the EU.

Two ratings agencies, S&P and Fitch, downgraded the UK on Monday. A rating downgrade can affect how much it costs governments to borrow money in the international financial markets.

How overnight of them.

[XXL]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/27/david-cameron-jokes-new-labour-mp-could-find-herself-in-shadow-c/

David Cameron jokes new Labour MP could find herself in shadow cabinet

David Cameron began his first statement in the Commons since Britain voted to leave the EU to joke that the new Labour MP for Tooting Rosena Allin-Khan should keep her mobile phone on as "she might be in the shadow cabinet by the end of the day".

The jibe was made after Jeremy Corbyn lost over half the members of his shadow cabinet.

Mr Corbyn has been publicly accused of undermining Labour's efforts in the European Union referendum campaign as his grip on the party leadership looked increasingly weak.

The full-blown coup aimed at ousting Mr Corbyn follows the dramatic events in the wake of the Brexit vote, with Labour MPs fearing an early election against David Cameron's successor.

Despite Mr Corbyn's insistence that he was firmly behind the Remain cause, he has a history of Euroscepticism and the party's MPs have publicly questioned his commitment on the issue.

Sooooo funny

[XXL]

How overnight of them

Once again misreading the whole thing

They're just saying "the bargaining days are over". Cameron called a referendum and said he'd trigger Article 50 the morning after, in case the LEAVE vote would prevail. They haven't triggered it yet because they weren't expecting the LEAVE outcome and now they're buying time. So Germany, France and Italy are merely saying, more informal talks are pointless since you wanted the real deal

More informal talks = more bargaining to get unfair discounts in comparison to other EU members in regards to banking regulations, immigration and refugee crisis issues while still having full access to the full market. Meanwhile the uncertainty and market volatility continues and every single EU member country, not just the UK is now paying for it. It has repercussions globally for that matter.

Angela Merkel was balanced, certainly compared to Brussels technocrats, she said no reason to be nasty but no reason for British politicians to take too much time either.

Boris is now shitting himself because if he becomes Prime Minister he'll have "the honour" and responsibility of triggering that infamous Article 50. He's already not answering journalists questions about how he thinks Britain will now manage to achieve a trade off deal between full single market access and related benefits and immigration quotas etc

He didn't think the LEAVE result would become a reality either. And now he can only bumble himself out of it.

[MeakMaker]

Poor Cameron..trying to use humour when it's not funny at all. Maybe he's trying to test his new career as a comedian.. After all he's the biggest joke of them all lol The fact they're not going to trigger article 50 any time soon is very telling. They just won't at this stage. They will pressurise the public into staying in the EU despise the referendum.. A lot of MPs are saying being out of the EU is not option. There's way too much at stake. They handled both campaigns really bad.. One person voted Leave because he thought it was about Cameron leaving or staying.. Others didn't even know what EU stands for.. There's way too many people regretting it and even the racists have realized that just because Leave has won that doesn't mean they're allowed to abuse or intimidate immigrants.. All in all, it was just another day in raining England; the rich becoming more and more selfish, the poor becoming more and more ignorant, the elite always thinking for their own interest and the queen still nowhere to be seen as usual. And of course the media having a field day!

This referendum was a joke and will stay one but I have no doubt the U.K. will stay in the EU in the end or they will reach some compromise.. But the UK completely out of the EU is unthinkable!

[XXL]

The beauty of democracy is that the working class who might not be as university book smart as those in parliament or those upper-classes are equal in the vote. People are smart in different ways, we experience different lives on the same land, and a democracy allows everyone from different experiences to have a say.

I most agree with allowing everybody, regardless of class, education etc to express their opinion (also because history shows that the "educated and wealthy" often do not exactly have the best interests of the whole community at heart) but at the same time, on a fundamental parallel level, on very important issues such as this one, you would hope everyone would be put in a position of having all the facts and not half the facts or misleading evidence in order to convince them or even "ambush them" into voting one way or another.

[Ai Papi Si.]

So we have to wait for the chips to fall except for we must accept the fall out now? Alright Miguel.

If you think this won't have some sort of negative impact on the economy while citing stock figures from the weekend I don't know what to tell you. You can continue making a fool of yourself on this topic or maybe listen to the people who know about this more than you. Try it you may learn something.

I said there will likely be some sort of impact - severity of which we don't know.

It's like knowing a hurricane is coming. Could be category 5 or it could be a tropical storm. But it's coming so deal with it.

GET ITTTTTT???

[billiejean]

I bet we will get a big terrorist attack to 'serve us right' soon. If you believe conspiracy theories on the internet that is.

[XXL]

[XXL]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36636853

Sterling falls and bank, airline and property shares tumble

UK financial markets remain volatile in the wake of the Brexit vote, with sterling plunging to a 31-year low against the dollar, and some share trading temporarily halted.

Yields on 10-year government bonds sank below 1% for the first time as investors bet on an interest rate cut.

Shares in airlines, housebuilders and banks were worst hit, with sharp falls causing a momentary halt in trading.

The falls came after Chancellor George Osborne tried to calm the markets.

In a statement before the financial markets opened, his first since the referendum result, the chancellor said the UK was ready to face the future "from a position of strength".

He also indicated there would be no immediate emergency Budget.

But the upheaval on the financial markets continued.

The pound fell 3.2% to $1.32260, having earlier hit a fresh 31-year low of $1.3151, sinking below the level it had fallen to on Friday when it recorded its biggest one-day fall ever against the dollar. Against the euro, it was down 2.6% at €1.19990.

On the stock markets, the benchmark FTSE 100 index closed down 2.6% at 5982.2.

On Friday the blue-chip index had plunged more than 8% at one point before recovering some ground to close 3.2% lower.

The FTSE 250 index, which mostly contains companies that are more UK-focused, closed down 6.96% on Monday after sliding 7% on Friday. The falls represent the biggest daily percentage falls since 1987.

Stocks on Wall Street also fell. By midday the Dow Jones was down 1.5%, the S&P 500 dropped 1.7% and the Nasdaq lost 2.2%.

Shares in financial firms were the most affected, with Barclays closing down 17.4% and Royal Bank of Scotland plummeting 15.1%.

The dramatic volatility caused trading in both firms to be briefly suspended in early trade.

Property shares were also badly hit, prompting a trading halt, on worries that the decision to leave the EU would hit the housing market.

Easyjet's shares fell more than 22% after the airline said Brexit would contribute to a fall in revenues.

Taylor Wimpey fell 14.9% and Barratt Developments fell over 19%.

Markets in Europe also tumbled, with France's Cac-40 and Germany's Dax both closing down around 3%.

The return on UK government bonds - known as the gilt yield - fell to its lowest level ever on Monday.

Investors are buying more UK government debt in search of safer investments.

The yield from a 10-year gilt dropped below 1% for the first time - hitting 0.993% in morning trading.

The price of gold rose on Monday, up 0.8% to $1,324.60 an ounce, although it was below the two-year peak of $1,358.20 reached on Friday.

The gold price often rises in times of uncertainty as it is viewed as a safe haven asset.

In his statement before the markets opened, Chancellor George Osborne said there would still need to be an "adjustment" in the UK economy, but added it was "perfectly sensible to wait for a new prime minister" before taking any such action.

Mr Osborne's also spoke about the process of the UK's departure from the EU, saying only the UK can trigger Article 50.

"In my judgement, we should only do that when there is a clear view about what new arrangements we are seeking with our European neighbours," he said.

Former Bank of England governor Lord King, who steered the Bank through the 2008 financial crisis, said there was no reason for people to be particularly worried.

"Markets move up, markets move down. We don't yet know where they will find their level and the whole aspect of volatility is that there is a trial and error process going on before markets discover what the right level of stock markets and exchange rates actually are," he told the BBC.

"What we need is a bit of calm now, there's no reason for any of us to panic."

In the short term, Lord King said he expected the leave decision to affect investment from foreign firms into the UK, but in the long term he said it was likely that the impact would be much smaller than either side expected.

However, he criticised the campaigning ahead of the referendum.

"I was struck by how many people said to me that they didn't like the scaremongering tactics. They didn't like to be told that if they were to vote to leave they would be idiots.

"If you say to someone 'you're an idiot if you don't agree with me' then you're not likely to bring them in your direction," he said.

Similarly, Capital Economics economist Julian Jessop said it was important to keep the sharp market movements in perspective, saying it "would be wrong to conclude that the world is on the cusp of another global financial crisis".

"The focus on the magnitudes of the one-day declines obscures the fact that equities had rallied strongly ahead of the UK referendum result in anticipation of a vote to remain in the EU.

"Friday's collapse in the FTSE 100 simply reversed that move, leaving equities little changed over the week."

It was a sentiment echoed by US Treasury Secretary Jack Lew who said the market impact from Brexit had been orderly so far and there were no signs of a financial crisis arising from the vote.

"As we move forward, it is important to stress that UK, European and global policymakers have the tools necessary to support not just financial stability — but also to promote economic growth," he said.

Stock markets plunged on Friday, with more than $2 trillion (£1.5 trillion) wiped off the value of global stock markets, according to Standard and Poor's Dow Jones Indices.

That was the biggest one-day loss in market value - even greater than the value wiped out following the collapse of Lehman Brothers during the 2008 financial crisis, Standard and Poor's calculated.