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International Monetary Fund: EU exit could cause severe damage

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Weren't you pro Scotland becoming independent from Britain?

What's that got to do with Britain exiting the EU?

In fact the (false) prospect of Scotland having to reapply for membership of the EU was used as a reason for NOT breaking up the UK by some of the idiots who now want to leave the EU.

If England votes for Brexit and Scotland doesn't (and it won't, because of the agricultural and economic ties) then that should be interesting.

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So did Cameron put his dick in a pig or not?

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Guest Rachelle of London

What's that got to do with Britain exiting the EU?

In fact the (false) prospect of Scotland having to reapply for membership of the EU was used as a reason for NOT breaking up the UK by some of the idiots who now want to leave the EU.

If England votes for Brexit and Scotland doesn't (and it won't, because of the agricultural and economic ties) then that should be interesting.

So Scotland should be away from the UK, but UK should stay in the EU? Union is good for some but independence good enough for others? I find that strange.

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But the current situation has nothing to do with the Euro. The crisis in Spain was created because two (I think it was two?) banks gambled highly on subprime mortgages in Spain. As a result the Spanish government had to save those banks by bailing them out. In result the Spanish debt increased immensely. Ireland tumbled because of all the investment banks that are/were registered there (thanks to Ireland being a tax haven compared to other European countries) that were heavily involved with subprime mortages in the U.S. None of those problems actually come from the Euro.

The most obvious problem in regards to the Euro and yes that goes back to the introduction of the Euro is that most of the Southern countries are/were not competive enough in comparison to Northern countries and have no longer the possibility to lower the value of their own currency to make their products cheaper. The system that China uses heavily to get rid of their cheap stuff.

That's the German version of the whole FRAUD that is this crisis hahaha. Yes, we had a wrong system but German banks were worse. Did you know that Deutsche Bank has toxic debt FOUR TIMES the value of Germany?

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That's the German version of the whole FRAUD that is this crisis hahaha. Yes, we had a wrong system but German banks were worse. Did you know that Deutsche Bank has toxic debt FOUR TIMES the value of Germany?

Oh, these fuckers. Deutsche Bank is the Lady Gaga of the financial world. Delusions of grandeur. Once they thought they should play in the same league as those big U.S. investment banks and founded their own investment arm it was the beginning of their demise. Kicking all the little people clients out and pretending they are a major player now and therefore doesn't need them. Assholes. Now they had to post losses of a few billion thanks to all the suits that are waiting. But did they do all this stuff from Germany? No. All the shady business was planned and done in NY, London and Ireland. Too bad no one at the headquarters controlled any of their doing. But as always, as long as those businesses generate tons of profits who cares how risky their business is. And even if they fail, there is always a government to bail them out. Profits are meant to be privatized, losses are meant to be socialized.

I know they have toxic debt. Who doesn't? But what do you mean with "the value of Germany"? GOP? Tax income?

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I was gonna JANCEL

But I JANCELed on EU instead

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Oh, these fuckers. Deutsche Bank is the Lady Gaga of the financial world. Delusions of grandeur. Once they thought they should play in the same league as those big U.S. investment banks and founded their own investment arm it was the beginning of their demise. Kicking all the little people clients out and pretending they are a major player now and therefore doesn't need them. Assholes. Now they had to post losses of a few billion thanks to all the suits that are waiting. But did they do all this stuff from Germany? No. All the shady business was planned and done in NY, London and Ireland. Too bad no one at the headquarters controlled any of their doing. But as always, as long as those businesses generate tons of profits who cares how risky their business is. And even if they fail, there is always a government to bail them out. Profits are meant to be privatized, losses are meant to be socialized.

I know they have toxic debt. Who doesn't? But what do you mean with "the value of Germany"? GOP? Tax income?

GOP. I didn't know the name in English hahaha

The thing is that Spain had the same trouble as USA regarding mortgages. But that was solved. Now we face double debt and the impositions of Merkel and that doesn't allow us to invest and grow. And that's economic terrorism. Meanwhile other countries benefit from our situation, getting skilful migrants and lots of money from investors.

This all was INGENEERED. Either to dump salaries and take away protection laws to build the path for the ITTP or simply because the only way to stay rich nowadays is to make more countries poor.

And our political and economical elite doesn't help either.

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All our politicians (apart from Cameron due to personal reasons) and leaders in the City are for Brexit.

I really don't think so

Cattura_zpsvsacy1m8.jpg

EU referendum: Jeremy Corbyn warns of workers' rights 'bonfire' if UK leaves
Labour-party-leader-Jeremy-Corbyn-delive
Jeremy Corbyn has warned there could be a "bonfire" of workers' rights if the UK votes to leave the EU in June. The Labour leader claimed the Conservatives would "dump" equal pay, annual leave and maternity pay rights. And he did not think "too many people" had come to the UK from inside the EU.
David Cameron said they disagreed on "lots of things" but welcomed Mr Corbyn's backing for EU membership - as Leave campaigners said the Labour leader "does not really mean it". Making his first major speech of the referendum campaign, Mr Corbyn stood by past criticisms of the EU but said Britain had to remain in to fight for social reform.
He set out an alternative, "socialist" vision for Britain in Europe to the one being promoted by Mr Cameron, who will need the support of Labour voters to win 23 June's referendum.
He called for an EU minimum wage to prevent "unscrupulous" employers from undercutting wages, and said: "Just imagine what the Tories would do to workers' rights here in Britain if we voted to leave the EU in June.
"They'd dump rights on equal pay, working time, annual leave, for agency workers, and on maternity pay as fast as they could get away with it. It would be a bonfire of rights that Labour governments secured within the EU.
"Not only that, it wouldn't be a Labour government negotiating a better settlement for working people with the EU. It would be a Tory government, quite possibly led by Boris Johnson and backed by Nigel Farage, that would negotiate the worst of all worlds: a free market free-for-all shorn of rights and protections."
Asked about concerns over high levels of immigration, he said: "There is nothing wrong with people migrating to work across the continent but there has to be a level playing field on pay and conditions. What we have is unscrupulous employers doing that."
He said a Labour government would have done more at an EU level to save the British steel industry by backing European Commission proposals to impose import tariffs on Chinese steel imports.
And he backed EU action on tax avoidance, accusing the Leave campaign of wanting to make Britain "the safe haven of choice for the ill-gotten gains of every dodgy oligarch, dictator or rogue corporation".
Mr Corbyn addressed his previous Euroscepticism, saying: "Over the years I have been critical of many decisions taken by the EU, and I remain critical of its shortcomings; from its lack of democratic accountability to the institutional pressure to deregulate or privatise public services.
"So Europe needs to change. But that change can only come from working with our allies in the EU. It's perfectly possible to be critical and still be convinced we need to remain a member."
Cattura_zps5cp6dkdp.jpg
David Cameron, manning the phones with former Labour leader Lord Kinnock and former Lib Dem leader Lord Ashdown at remain campaign headquarters, said: "I absolutely welcome Jeremy Corbyn's intervention.
"There are lots of things we disagree about, between Labour, Liberals, Greens and others, but the fact is we all come together to support the idea of Britain staying in a reformed European Union."
But Labour MP Kate Hoey, who is campaigning for an out vote, said many Labour voters shared her view and would "see through" Mr Corbyn's speech.
"We know first of all, that he doesn't really mean it, no matter how much he tries to pretend he does, and secondly, that it is not in the interest of the Labour movement," she told the BBC News channel.
UKIP said Mr Corbyn's stance on immigration made him an "outlier" within his own party, when other senior figures such as Andy Burnham recognised the need for tighter controls, and it showed he had no understanding of how "uncontrolled" mass immigration from the EU had "crushed the aspirations of so many of our people".
Jeremy Corbyn appears to have EU amnesia
Referendums can make strange allies of people – blurring political identities and, sometimes, the facts. Yesterday there was a coalescing of forces around the Remain and Leave campaigns. The disputatious Eurosceptics appeared to accept the leadership of the Vote Leave group, while Jeremy Corbyn confirmed that he is, like David Cameron, definitely for Remain.
Mr Corbyn said there would be a “bonfire” of workers’ rights if Brexit were to happen. The man must have amnesia. Only in 2014, he wrote in The Morning Star, formerly the organ of the Communist Party of Great Britain, that the EU was “a place where big business has free rein to operate”. This newspaper would actually welcome such an EU, but Mr Corbyn attacked the idea as a paradise for “greedy bankers and multinationals” and lambasted the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership – which the Left is convinced poses a threat to the NHS.
Two years later, Mr Corbyn is pro-EU. Though he admits that “unscrupulous employers” could use mass migration to their advantage, he denies that too many people have come to Britain in the past few years. Remarkably, this myopia leaves him defending not the socialism of the Eurosceptic Tony Benn but the legacy, on Europe and immigration at least, of Tony Blair.
He is not alone in embracing unexpected causes. Vote Leave is putting the NHS at the centre of its campaign, insisting that the UK’s financial contribution to the EU would be enough to rescue the health service. No one disputes that the NHS could always do better. Today we reveal how it is dramatically behind its targets. But the senior conservatives aboard the Vote Leave bus should be wary of echoing Labour attacks on funding, and remember what they themselves have argued in the past: that the NHS is best rescued by greater efficiency, reform and the injection of private-sector cash.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the financial/economics front you really don't get a bigger anti brexit endorsement than this:

Bank of England issues stark Brexit warning as former Chancellor warns of 'dark clouds'

The Bank of England has issued its starkest warning yet over the consequences of Brexit for the British economy, stating that the country would be likely to face a long period of uncertainty if it left the EU, that would dampen demand and impact on UK assets.

Minutes from the latest meeting of the Bank’s Monetary Policy Committee also state that the looming referendum is already having a dampening effect on the economy, noting that many major capital spending decisions and property transactions were being delayed, pending the outcome of the vote.

Its warning, which was roundly criticised by the Leave campaign, came as the former Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling, who presided over the UK’s response to the 2008 global financial crisis, said that “dark clouds” were again “gathering on our horizon” and slammed Brexit campaigners for “turning a blind eye to credible warnings of economic disaster”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-bank-of-england-issues-stark-brexit-warning-as-alistair-darling-forecasts-dark-clouds-a6984956.html

Bank of England Notes Warning Signs as Brexit Vote Approaches

Mark-Carney-with-bank-note-in-background
Mark Carney has already called the U.K.’s referendum on its European Union membership the biggest risk to domestic financial stability. Now he’s given some insight into what officials are looking at as they fret about the economic outlook.
With the vote just over two months away, the increased uncertainty may already be affecting confidence among executives as well as companies’ willingness to borrow, invest and hire. Minutes of policy makers’ April meeting also put the referendum in the spotlight for hitting share sales and private-equity deals, and commercial real estate transactions.

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laurakjpg_2898117b.jpg





Corbyn's EU speech at the 'Ministry of Truth'






George Orwell based the Ministry of Truth in his novel 1984 in Senate House at the University of London. That was, as the Labour leader joked as he got to his feet, the venue for Jeremy Corbyn's speech today.


The imaginary Ministry of Truth was where the fictional language Newspeak was created. It was designed to limit freedom of expression, anything that might challenge the Party wisdom.


In that tongue, the word truth was taken to mean: 2 + 2 = 5.


Far be it from me to suggest that Jeremy Corbyn has had to contort his own true views to keep the peace with his colleagues in Westminster, who are overwhelming backers of the EU


1984-by-george-orwell.jpg




'Curious thing'



But maybe it takes some rather untraditional arithmetic to add together Jeremy Corbyn's criticism of the EU over the years and conclude that he really and truly does support staying in.


Over the years he's said its policies are "crazy", not "moral", he's accused the EU of taking power away from Parliament, and he's voted against it on multiple occasions.


Mr Corbyn can't escape his previous views, and today said he wouldn't "recant". As Orwell wrote, "the past is a curious thing. It's with you all the time".



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But confronting accusations that he has stayed too silent on the topic, Mr Corbyn has today given his clear backing to the campaign for Remain.


For Labour MPs who have doubted him, that is what matters. His speech today was though a summary of some of the subjects he cares passionately about and how the power of the EU might help, rather than a full-throated roar of support for the institution. Migration question


On the environment, on workers' rights, cracking down on tax avoiders - action taken by countries working together is more effective than working alone, he said.


He also tried out a new argument that was slightly more unusual - that leaving the EU would leave the UK in the clutches of Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage creating some kind of free-for-all for the free market, seeming to suggest that a Brexit would somehow make it more likely there would be Conservative governments in the future.


What could also be used by the Leave campaign was his contention that there has not been too much immigration from the EU.


He told me: "I don't think too many have come. I think that the issue has to be of wages and regulation which I included in my speech and it's employers that try to undercut industry-wide agreements in the construction industry and others that are the problem."




Grudging



There are plenty of Labour voters who wouldn't agree with that, plenty of constituencies where UKIP has nibbled away at the party's support. And for many members of the public, immigration from the EU is a big and real concern.


The importance of today though, is that Jeremy Corbyn has made this speech at all. As the party's leader it was, and will be, important in the next 10 weeks that he is on the record supporting the campaign to stay, and visibly doing so.


So far spats in the Conservative Party have dominated the conversations around our place in Europe. Labour might have lost the last election, but many of its nine million voters will look to the party for its position on the European Union.


And even though Mr Corbyn's support felt rather grudging, few of the high-profile figures are backing the institution with much affection.


Staying in is presented as the pragmatic, safer choice, rather than a source of pride and inspiration. He is not exactly alone in supporting the Remain campaign through slightly gritted teeth.


Perhaps that's one of the problems that in the coming weeks that the so-called Remainers would do well to address.

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Guest Rachelle of London

Of course Jeremy Corbyn is pro Europe. He's the leader of the Labour Party why are people forgetting that Cameron was for leaving Europe, he only changed his tune a few years ago. :lmao:

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But are we surprised? Look where most of the top people at the ECB are coming from. Goldman Sachs. Enough said.

:chuckle::thumbsup:

The worst scammers of them all. The same people who are telling us the concerns over the dollar in regards to the current situation within the oil industry and Chinese economy trends are baseless. Never mind the pot of money hanging over every single American taxpayer's head towards the "Chinese Government"

The same people who had a huge hand in the events of 2008/2009 which started in 2007

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Guest Rachelle of London

Many of Corbyns party members want to leave Europe too. Scaremongering workers that "you'll lose your jobs if we leave Europe" is not helping the situation at all. We're in the EU now, where are all these magical jobs that people are gonna lose? With unemployment so high especially in Labour controlled areas I think it's quite rude to say "you'll lose your jobs" WHAT JOBS :lmao:

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Regarding the access to the single market. Yes, the UK will have access but you will have to accept tons of rules and regulations. Just ask Norway what it means. If the idea behind the Brexit is to save money and have less regulations, think again. The access will cost almost as much and will be just as regulated. In fact you will pay and will have no influence at all. Or does anyone in the UK believe you can still have all the advantages of a common market for free?

Exactly. Norway's PM was interviewed a while ago and she said that even if Norway is out of the EU it still has to comply with just about any EU imposed law, politically and in terms of trade. We can argue all we want about this and it's clear there is a tendency all over the world to veer towards more and more centralised political bodies but to think the UK economy which has been destroyed by people like Thatcher and Blair (and in his case, aside from the wild privatisations and continued deindustrialisation, let's not even talk about the Iraq mess and that extra burden of debt added for wars that benefit nobody in the world etc) can survive outside of the framework that somehow salvages the privileges of the only "prosperous" industry the UK now boasts, i.e. advanced third sector, insurance, real estate etc, is pure folly. The empire was a while ago, I think a lot of British citizens are aware of that

And by the way this is not me saying the EU is a kind hearted project made to benefit common people. It is disfunctional at best.

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I don't think UK will be very different either in the EU or outside, tbqh. You have always been a very independent enconomy, only dependent by international flux of money, but that wouldn't change.

So... don't get either the desire to leave or the desire to stay. IMO it's just another smoke courtain to keep population talking and talking and talking while middle classes are getting poorer each day. Just as any other country in Europe. Here in Spain nationalism in Catalona was suddenly a main ussue, just exactly when population started being very angry with the general situation.

The same with Scotland referendum. Even though it's aboslutely great that people have referendums to say if the ywant to stay in a country or not... wasn't it a bit weird that Cameron suddenly presented that referendum, in the middle of this fucked up moment?

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That's the crux of the matter, and that's why it won't happen.

I've yet to hear one persuasive argument for exiting, other than the "we can look after our own affairs" tosh and the fear mongering bull about Muslim terrorists' open door policy on our shores etc.

The idea of Britain being some isolated, insulated little island running its (non-existent) empire from afar is still something that people cling to for whatever reason, but most people are forward thinking...I hope.

What's that got to do with Britain exiting the EU?

In fact the (false) prospect of Scotland having to reapply for membership of the EU was used as a reason for NOT breaking up the UK by some of the idiots who now want to leave the EU.

If England votes for Brexit and Scotland doesn't (and it won't, because of the agricultural and economic ties) then that should be interesting.

:thumbsup:

# Bring back the Boxscore thread

# Carta has got the moves baby

# Stay, stay darling please please please stay darling thread

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EU referendum: Boris Johnson accuses Barack Obama of 'hypocrisy'









Boris Johnson has accused US President Barack Obama of "hypocrisy" over his support for the UK remaining in the EU. The London mayor, who backs EU exit, told the BBC the Americans "wouldn't dream of sharing [their] sovereignty" as the UK had done.


The US president is expected to repeat his support for Britain's EU membership when he visits the UK next week. Backers of Remain dismissed Mr Johnson's remarks as "nonsense", citing US membership of Nato and trade bodies.


The White House has indicated Mr Obama is ready to offer his view on the issue but will stress the decision is for UK voters. Speaking in Washington, Chancellor George Osborne said it was the "overwhelming view" of foreign governments and international institutions such as the IMF and Nato that the UK should remain.


Backing from Mr Obama could boost Prime Minister David Cameron's efforts to persuade the country to vote to remain in the EU in the 23 June referendum.


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Asked about the US president, the London mayor said everything about the history of the US suggested they would never share sovereignty.


"I don't know what he is going to say but, if that is the American argument then it is nakedly hypocritical. The Americans would never dream of it," he told the BBC.


'Absolutely bizarre'


"I think that President Obama has got a perfect right to make any intervention that he wants. Indeed I welcome the views of everybody in this debate.


"I just find it absolutely bizarre that we are being lectured by the Americans about giving up our sovereignty and giving up control when the Americans won't even sign up to the international convention on the law of the seas, let alone the International Criminal Court."


Labour MP Stephen Kinnock dismissed Mr Johnson's comments as "utter nonsense".


"The last time I checked, the United States was a member of Nato. You look at article five of Nato, it says any attack on a Nato member is an attack on all. You couldn't have a greater pooling of sovereignty than that," he said.


"The United States is a member of the WTO [World Trade Organization] and a range of other international organisations. We pool our sovereignty in order to make ourselves stronger."

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