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2016 Presidential Election Thread Part 2

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What alarms me more is the fact that the public already knows EVERYTHING there is to know about Clinton and she is losing or neck and neck with so many republicans right now nationally. I mean this woman should be murdering someone like Donald Trump in a head to head match up and she is only leading by 1%!? THAT is frightening to me. And losing to Ted Cruz!!!!!!!?

And people said the same thing about Obama in 2008. How Hillary HAD to be the nominee cause Obama could never win any of the states that were more predominantly white that Obama HAD to win to be elected. Or how he might be doing well with liberal dems but he will never win over more white blue collar dems and white swing voters. I recall those very debates going on in this forum. And how many people in public would say they would vote for Obama just to not appear "racist" but then vote for the white guy when they were in the booth alone.

Obviously none of that happened.

And the thing that's even scarier to me is the way Trumps supporters have become like a cult. There is NOTHING this man can say or do that will sway any of his supporters. Trump was correct when he said he could shoot a man dead in the street, and his followers would still support him Its frightening.

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What alarms me more is the fact that the public already knows EVERYTHING there is to know about Clinton and she is losing or neck and neck with so many republicans right now nationally. I mean this woman should be murdering someone like Donald Trump in a head to head match up and she is only leading by 1%!? THAT is frightening to me. And losing to Ted Cruz!!!!!!!?

And people said the same thing about Obama in 2008. How Hillary HAD to be the nominee cause Obama could never win any of the states that were more predominantly white that Obama HAD to win to be elected. Or how he might be doing well with liberal dems but he will never win over more white blue collar dems and white swing voters. I recall those very debates going on in this forum. And how many people in public would say they would vote for Obama just to not appear "racist" but then vote for the white guy when they were in the booth alone.

Obviously none of that happened.

And the thing that's even scarier to me is the way Trumps supporters have become like a cult. There is NOTHING this man can say or do that will sway any of his supporters. Trump was correct when he said he could shoot a man dead in the street, and his followers would still support him Its frightening.

National polls don't mean much at this point. We don't elect Presidents by popular vote, it's all about the Electoral College. And honestly (I hate to say it), seven U.S. states are the ones that really elect the President. The rest always vote red or blue and have for the past 25 years.
As for no one believing in Obama in 2008, that's true. However, once he won a predominantly white state (Iowa) and left Hillary in the dust, people knew something was happening on the ground. Winning Iowa was the game changer for Obama. No black candidate had ever done that. Bernie couldn't deliver a blow out in Iowa even with all his enthusiasm - he had to settle for a tie. That said, New Hampshire was a convincing win. However, we haven't seen how he'll do yet in other (more diverse) states. I am not yet convinced Sanders is turning out voters that would inspire some kind revolution. Despite all the hype about him among younger voters and in the press, he isn't bringing out as many new people to vote as Obama did in 2008. Democratic turnout has been lower than 2008 so far in Iowa and New Hampshire.
Tomorrow's Nevada caucus will be a real test. If Bernie can win by 5% or more, his campaign might be able to give Clinton a run for her money. If it's another close tie and then he loses by a landslide in South Carolina, his campaign will be wounded going into March 1 when a lot more states vote. And if Bernie can't route Clinton the way Obama did, it's unlikely he'd survive a general election against a GOP candidate with $1 billion in super PAC money.

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he isn't bringing out as many new people to vote as Obama did in 2008. Democratic turnout has been lower than 2008 so far in Iowa and New Hampshire.

I thought in NH he received more votes then any democrat ever in a primary in that state?

Bernie Sanders received 151,578 votes in the 2016 New Hampshire Primary, BY FAR more than any candidate in the history of primary elections there. Hillary received 95,249.

Here are the numbers for the front-runners in the 2008 race.

Hillary Clinton 112,404 Barack Obama 104,815

Hillary Clinton receives 10% fewer votes than 2008.

Maybe you mean in total votes of all the nominees from 2008 vs just the two running now?

In any case its a shame that he is having trouble winning over black voters. A picture The Chicago Tribune just found of Bernie being arrested at 21 at a Civil Rights march. The more I find out about this man, the more I love him.

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I thought in NH he received more votes then any democrat ever in a primary in that state?

Maybe you mean in total votes of all the nominees from 2008 vs just the two running now?

Yes, the second part. There were only 2 candidates this time. Last time there were more to divide up the total. Either way, Democratic turnout was down. That to me doesn't spell some massive revolution.

Note that the GOP side turned out about 20% more voters than the two Democratic candidates together. Terrifying, even for a mostly blue state.

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Runa, you're making things up. You're a dreamer. Socialist. Living in the clouds. A political novice.

Runa, you're being an EXTREMIST. ENOUGH WITH THE EXTREMISM. WE NEED MORE SENSIBLE PEOPLE IN GOVERNMENT. PUBLIC HEALTHCARE IS EXTREME AND DANGEROUS :lmao:

I'm a fucking SOCIALIST. I should be thrown in jail.

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MSNBC and FOX have both called the Nevada caucuses for Hillary Clinton. The final result will still be close, but not a "tie" like Iowa. She should finish with a 4-6 point lead over Sanders.

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YAY!!!!!

Young voters are with Sanders but Hillary has the african american vote! Almost 90% believe she can win the general election. Sanders has a huge win with the youth vote 89%.

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Black voters really boosted Hillary, by A LOT. Bernie is going to have a very hard time in Southern states coming up.

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Hilary has to start beating Sanders more because Sanders won't win the general election unless it's against dopey cruz or trump. He's very clear about his economic populism to voters, but not so much on other issues like foreign policy, etc.

Sanders also is appealing overwhelmingly to whites like most republicans, but obviously he's attracting liberal whites. For his sake, he's doing excellent with younger voters, but he needs to broaden his base by continuing to reach out to diverse people.

Still want a Hilary win though and anything to AVOID cruz, trump, or carson. The other republicans running don't worry me as much as those fuckers.

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Bernie in his speech saying that next in is Super Tuesday, ignoring the SC primary, will not play well. I'm starting to think he's buying into his own hype.

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Bernie in his speech saying that next in is Super Tuesday, ignoring the SC primary, will not play well. I'm starting to think he's buying into his own hype.

i saw that too....weird he just skipped SC a huge primary.

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Yes, the second part. There were only 2 candidates this time. Last time there were more to divide up the total. Either way, Democratic turnout was down. That to me doesn't spell some massive revolution.

Note that the GOP side turned out about 20% more voters than the two Democratic candidates together. Terrifying, even for a mostly blue state.

Do you think a lot of it has to do with A. Obama is HIGHLY loved by democrats and B. Most dems are fine with either Hillary or Bernie so they don't feel a need to get out there? Nothing motivates people more then having something to fight against, and dems really aren't feeling like they are fighting against anything right now like in 08 when dems were determined to make sure another republican did not take over when Bush left.

This whole thing is just starting to scare me. Should I really prepare myself for someone like Trump being the nominee? I mean it seems like NOTHING he says or does cuts into his support AT ALL! Like I said his following is like mindless cult members at this point. I love Bernie but if he started saying half the shit Trump spews I would be like, BYE FELICIA!!!!! It just amazes the hell out of me how he can act like such gutter trash and they STILL love him.

And I go back and forth on who would be the better nominee. Hillary or Bernie. I mean personally I like Bernie more and he is my #1 choice but then I am like can he take on the onslaught of republican shit that is going to be thrown his way in the general election like Hillary could? And then I think Hillary has the email cloud over her no matter how much of a farce I think it is, still being investigated over it does not look good in the eyes of many and overall she has high negatives and I fear if she is the nominee soooooo many young voters are just going to sit the election out making it harder for her.

Bottom line I am scared shitless of a republican winning the White House and the person being Trump, Cruz, or Rubio. I don't think my nerves can put up with this for 9 more months. :mellow::mellow::mellow::mellow::mellow::mellow:

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Do you think a lot of it has to do with A. Obama is HIGHLY loved by democrats and B. Most dems are fine with either Hillary or Bernie so they don't feel a need to get out there? Nothing motivates people more then having something to fight against, and dems really aren't feeling like they are fighting against anything right now like in 08 when dems were determined to make sure another republican did not take over when Bush left.

This whole thing is just starting to scare me. Should I really prepare myself for someone like Trump being the nominee? I mean it seems like NOTHING he says or does cuts into his support AT ALL! Like I said his following is like mindless cult members at this point. I love Bernie but if he started saying half the shit Trump spews I would be like, BYE FELICIA!!!!! It just amazes the hell out of me how he can act like such gutter trash and they STILL love him.

And I go back and forth on who would be the better nominee. Hillary or Bernie. I mean personally I like Bernie more and he is my #1 choice but then I am like can he take on the onslaught of republican shit that is going to be thrown his way in the general election like Hillary could? And then I think Hillary has the email cloud over her no matter how much of a farce I think it is, still being investigated over it does not look good in the eyes of many and overall she has high negatives and I fear if she is the nominee soooooo many young voters are just going to sit the election out making it harder for her.

Bottom line I am scared shitless of a republican winning the White House and the person being Trump, Cruz, or Rubio. I don't think my nerves can put up with this for 9 more months. :mellow::mellow::mellow::mellow::mellow::mellow:

Hillary's negatives aren't the best, but Trump's negatives are so bad amongst the general American population that if he got the nomination, it would be factually correct to say that he would be the most unpopular nominee to run in a general election in modern history.

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Jeb Bush just dropped out of the race, lol!

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Jeb Bush just dropped out of the race, lol!

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Jeb Bush just dropped out of the race, lol!

Womp womp!!!!!

And I know Trump's negatives are REALLY high but it scares me that sooooooo many people support him!!! Unconditionally!!!!!!! There is NOTHING the man can say or do that will change peoples minds which is frightening that we have a sizeable amount of people in this country like that.

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Hillary's negatives aren't the best, but Trump's negatives are so bad amongst the general American population that if he got the nomination, it would be factually correct to say that he would be the most unpopular nominee to run in a general election in modern history.

It will be very interesting if that holds in a debate setting because most people judge politicians based on how they make them feel, likability and vibe and all that, rather than on their talking points. And if nonverbal communication is the crucial way to project a positive image Trump is a master communicator that we haven't seen probably since JFK while Hillary Clinton simply radiates negative body language, body language that conveys arrogance, insincerity or low confidence (think fidgeting, shrugging shoulders, nervous laughter, contemptuous expressions, etc). Something is going to have to give where there is a lack of congruency between high negatives based on what the candidate is saying and their charisma and energy and who makes voters feel "right" (gut feeling) on a very elemental level.

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Why did Bernie vote to confirm her as Sec. of State if she's so awful and the Iraq war vote alone represents her foreign policy entirely?

Since when did her Iraq war vote alone represent her foreign policy entirely? Who said that? :think:

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Since when did her Iraq war vote alone represent her foreign policy entirely? Who said that? :think:

Many Bernie supporters have implied and said her Iraq War vote alone would make her foreign policy chops questionable. Just repeating what I've read/heard/seen.

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Many Bernie supporters have implied and said her Iraq War vote alone would make her foreign policy chops questionable. Just repeating what I've read/heard/seen.

Ah, gotcha. I agree that her Iraq war vote alone should make her foreign policy questionable (as I think it should with anyone else who voted for it), but it shouldn't be the lone deciding factor.

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Many Bernie supporters have implied and said her Iraq War vote alone would make her foreign policy chops questionable. Just repeating what I've read/heard/seen.

Listen you damn fool, if you're putting words in my mouth I will wipe your mussy all over Times Square you hear?

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Listen you damn fool, if you're putting words in my mouth I will wipe your mussy all over Times Square you hear?

I'm not talking about you, for fucks sake. I wasn't talking about anyone on this forum.

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Ah, gotcha. I agree that her Iraq war vote alone should make her foreign policy questionable (as I think it should with anyone else who voted for it), but it shouldn't be the lone deciding factor.

I agree that it certainly has to be taken into account with regards to her foreign policy but I think she's proven herself to be very knowledgable and I think she did a good job as Secretary of State. It's obvious to me that Benghazi wasn't her fault. It was the responsibility of those below her and they dropped the ball.

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I'm not talking about you, for fucks sake. I wasn't talking about anyone on this forum.

Oh ok.

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Do you think a lot of it has to do with A. Obama is HIGHLY loved by democrats and B. Most dems are fine with either Hillary or Bernie so they don't feel a need to get out there? Nothing motivates people more then having something to fight against, and dems really aren't feeling like they are fighting against anything right now like in 08 when dems were determined to make sure another republican did not take over when Bush left.

This whole thing is just starting to scare me. Should I really prepare myself for someone like Trump being the nominee? I mean it seems like NOTHING he says or does cuts into his support AT ALL! Like I said his following is like mindless cult members at this point. I love Bernie but if he started saying half the shit Trump spews I would be like, BYE FELICIA!!!!! It just amazes the hell out of me how he can act like such gutter trash and they STILL love him.

And I go back and forth on who would be the better nominee. Hillary or Bernie. I mean personally I like Bernie more and he is my #1 choice but then I am like can he take on the onslaught of republican shit that is going to be thrown his way in the general election like Hillary could? And then I think Hillary has the email cloud over her no matter how much of a farce I think it is, still being investigated over it does not look good in the eyes of many and overall she has high negatives and I fear if she is the nominee soooooo many young voters are just going to sit the election out making it harder for her.

Bottom line I am scared shitless of a republican winning the White House and the person being Trump, Cruz, or Rubio. I don't think my nerves can put up with this for 9 more months. :mellow::mellow::mellow::mellow::mellow::mellow:

I think the lower Democratic voter turnout might be some of what you said above, and maybe it's just fatigue. I mean, I think most Democratic and liberal voters feel like even after a massive win in 2008, we still don't have single-payer health care or a lot of other reforms. I mean, if you think about it, Obama accomplished A LOT in the first 2 years and the economy is way better now, but I am not sure it's enough. That or maybe most people are just complacent. I wouldn't be completely alarmed yet. In 2000, Democratic voter turnout was outpaced by Republicans during the caucuses and primaries but in the general election, the turn out was fairly even - of course Bush won that election due to the shit storm in Florida and the Nader distraction.

I am scared about a Republican winning too. And honestly, I cannot believe Trump is still around. He's freakin' Teflon at this point...nothing sticks or hurts him. However, he does have a ceiling of support and it's about 35% of Republican voters. Now, if he won the nom, you might get 60% of them to get on board, but his unfavorables are so high, Hillary would probably still crush him. Bernie might too.

As for loving Bernie. I do too. I think he's a very consistent liberal and a good man. I actually like him better (as a person) than Hillary. I just wish he was 10-15 years younger and a Senator from a swing state where he had already fought the GOP in a pitch battle. There is so much on the line this election. I want a proven fighter and Hillary has withstood everything thrown at her since the 90's. She's not everything I want, but she can win and she'll fight dirty to do it. I think she's a safer bet, but that's just my view point. I honestly think this election is going to be close no matter what. I'll be elated if its landslide for the Dems.

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And if nonverbal communication is the crucial way to project a positive image Trump is a master communicator that we haven't seen probably since JFK

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JFK indeed......

And I think what could really help Clinton with young people is picking someone as VP like Cory Booker orJulian Castro. I actually think these guys have that natural "IT" factor to the point that among many Americans they could become more popular then Clinton herself. :lol: One of the rare occasions where a VP could outshine the person at the top of the ticket. Plus I think a big reason for this if it were to happen is because I truly believe these men have future President written all over them.

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^ Yes, but is always/ultimately comes down to the PREZ. nominee. They won't hurt but the problem is Hillary is so tainted (putting it mildly) 'that' would quickly overshadow (as it always does) ANY VP pick even if they're the hottest, smartest rock stars w/in the party (Castro, Booker etc..). I def. also believe it will be one of them. Win win either way though Booker is def. more well known, would positively help her to get more reluctant blacks out to vote, the Northeast region (since he's from Jersey). Though Castro has the latin factor and from TX so...yeah, def. gonna be one of them. Who the hell else makes any sense?

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