2016 Presidential Election Thread Part 2

[ULIZOS]

I loathe the man, but I love his meh face when someone is insulting him. He's just kind of shrugs his shoulders and yawns.

[Skin]

I loathe the man, but I love his meh face when someone is insulting him. He's just kind of shrugs his shoulders and yawns.

Lady I work with says his face reminds her of a pussy.

[ULIZOS]

I'm not saying it's a nice face. He's a diva. That's all.

[elayman]

Lady I work with says his face reminds her of a pussy.

That is the way Trump talks also (being in the construction industry) so they may get along better than you think.

[Guest Pud Whacker]

Lady I work with says his face reminds her of a pussy.

her pussy? so is she saying her pussy is UGLY or BEAUTIFUL? or is she familiar with lots of puss like a Hillary: Behind the Scenes.

[elayman]

http://thehill.com/policy/cybersecurity/267269-fbis-clinton-investigation-not-letting-up

FBI's Hillary Clinton email investigation not letting up

Six months after it began, the federal investigation into Hillary Clinton’s private email server shows no signs of slowing down.

Former FBI officials said the length of the probe is not unusual and speculated that a decision on whether to file charges against Clinton or her top aides could come later this year, during the heat of the general election campaign.

“I don’t know that there’s any magical cutoff date,” said Ron Hosko, the FBI’s former assistant director of the criminal investigative division and a 30-year veteran of the bureau.

For Democrats, the extended investigation has become a source of some anxiety, with Republicans gleefully raising the prospect of the Democratic presidential front-runner being indicted.

“It does give pause to Democrats who are concerned that there may be another shoe to drop down the road,” said Andrew Smith, a political science professor at the University of New Hampshire.

The government has been examining the former secretary of State's private email server since last July, when the inspector general for the intelligence community issued a security referral noting that classified information could have been mishandled.

That referral came months after Clinton acknowledged that she had exclusively used a personal email address housed on a private server during her tenure as secretary.

The scrutiny of her email practices has mounted since then, with more than 1,300 emails that passed through her server found to contain information that has since been classified, some at the highest levels.

The State Department and Clinton’s campaign contend that none of the information in the emails was classified when it was originally sent, and they have portrayed the matter as an interagency dispute.

The FBI and Justice Department have refused to discuss the details of their investigation and declined to comment to The Hill.

Officials have indicated that the bureau is not targeting Clinton specifically, however, but is investigating whether any information on her account was mishandled. Earlier this month, Fox News reported that the FBI had expanded its inquiry to examine how the State Department’s work intersected with the Clinton family foundation.

In December, FBI Director James Comey pledged that the probe would be “competent,” “honest” and “independent.”

“We don't give a rip about politics,” he told a Senate committee.

Yet the FBI is well aware of the high political stakes surrounding the investigation.

“I think the clock ticks louder every day,” said Hosko, who is the president of the Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund. “I’m sure they’re all incredibly sensitive to it.”

President Obama has downplayed Clinton’s email setup, claiming that it was “not a situation in which America’s national security was endangered.”

Multiple former officials, lawmakers and lawyers have said they are confident that Comey, who is a Republican, will not let the presidential campaign influence the FBI’s investigation.

Yet many conservatives worry that even if the bureau comes up with sufficient evidence that Clinton broke the law, the Justice Department will decline to press charges. In response, some have pressed for a special prosecutor to be appointed, or for the FBI to pledge to release whatever evidence it digs up.

So far, Democrats have publicly shrugged of the threat of criminal action by painting it as a partisan attack from Republicans.

Clinton’s top rival for the Democratic presidential nomination, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), channeled the feelings of Democrats in October when he told Clinton during a debate that “the American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails.”

But Clinton will have to confront the issue more forcefully if charges are filed.

And should Clinton win the nomination, the topic is sure to be an issue in the general election campaign — even if no indictment is handed down.

A fight over the emails then could weaken Democratic enthusiasm and turn off swing voters, some analysts predicted.

“More likely, it’s going to sour some of those folks in the middle,” said Doug Roscoe, a political science professor at the University of Massachusetts Dartmouth.

“Having to be in the news talking about this investigation takes her off message,” he added.

It might not be Clinton herself who faces the music for any potential crime, however.

The former secretary of State did not appear to send most of the emails now marked classified. Instead, they were largely sent or forwarded to her by aides.

“It’d be a lot harder to make a criminal charge for having received [classified] information," said Bradley Moss, a lawyer who specializes in national security and protection of classified information

“If I’m in Clinton’s campaign, I’m more worried if am Cheryl Mills, Huma Abedin or Jake Sullivan than if I’m Hillary Clinton,” Moss said. Mills, Abedin and Sullivan were all top aides of Clinton’s at the State Department. Abedin and Sullivan continue to hold high positions in Clinton’s presidential campaign.

“The sloppiness and the complete fundamental failure to comply with any aspect of operational and informational security is what puts them at risk,” Moss said. “You just can’t do that that many times and not expect to find yourself in trouble.”

Clinton’s campaign did not respond to a request for comment from The Hill.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35446455

It's about time the White House started throwing her under the bus. Any one of us lowly minions would have been in prison months ago for these violations. Literally.

Hillary Clinton's unsecured home server contained more than a dozen emails deemed "top secret"- one of the highest levels of classification in the US government, the White House has said.

[ULIZOS]

I'm a translator at an audit firm. My job doesn't even sound important and I would NEVER think about sending work-related emails using my private email address. She was the secretary of fucking state.

[Skin]

Well we know CNN is in the tank for Hillary...

[Skin]

Red Hot Chile Peppers are doing a fundraising concert for Bernie also.

[Raider of the lost Ark]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-35446455

It's about time the White House started throwing her under the bus. Any one of us lowly minions would have been in prison months ago for these violations. Literally.

Hillary Clinton's unsecured home server contained more than a dozen emails deemed "top secret"- one of the highest levels of classification in the US government, the White House has said.

Blah, Blah, Blah. Those fucking e-mails. She is evil. The worst kind of human being ever to walk the earth. Oh wait, is she even human? Sorry, but the only ones making a big fuss about those e-mails are republicans. Interestingly, I have never ever heard any republican questioning George W. Bush Jr. and Rumsfelds actions during their reign. These two should be considered war criminals and be indicted. Not someone who downloaded some e-mails.

[Skin]

I honestly couldn't give two shits about her emails either.

Its like the whole Benghazi "scandal" Fox News has tried to drum up for years on end. *yawn*

[elayman]

Blah, Blah, Blah. Those fucking e-mails. She is evil. The worst kind of human being ever to walk the earth. Oh wait, is she even human? Sorry, but the only ones making a big fuss about those e-mails are republicans. Interestingly, I have never ever heard any republican questioning George W. Bush Jr. and Rumsfelds actions during their reign. These two should be considered war criminals and be indicted. Not someone who downloaded some e-mails.

Not exactly. The early emails also show her aides resisting, wondering why this is necessary and generally making a "big deal" about it, they are Democrats right ? Obviously they were forced into the endeavor against their original will. And now the White House. Cutting and pasting from secured servers to email is extremely difficult so someone went to a huge amount of effort and risk to themselves to pull off a circumvention of Obama policy and federal reporting requirements. Fortunately the FBI cares whether the US intelligence system survives, and it will not if the big shots know they can compromise intel for their mere convenience at the cost of a few fined or jailed fall guy aides.

[Nightshade]

If you watched the televised announcement today from State Department spokesman John Kirby, you would know that it's the same story that's been peddled by the GOP for months. The documents, totaling 37 pages, were not marked classified at the time they were sent, but are being upgraded NOW at the request of the Intelligence Community because they contain sensitive information.

"All I can tell you definitively is it wasn't marked classified at the time it was sent," Kirby said.

This means she's not liable because it was retroactively classified.

I completely agree it was stupid for her to use a private email server, but the regulations at State (at the time) did not forbid it. She's not going to be prosecuted.

Is that passive-aggressive enough, ULIZOS?

[Guest]

Ulizos you're such a cunt. Why does everybody hate Hilary now?

[elayman]

If you watched the televised announcement today from State Department spokesman John Kirby, you would know that it's the same story that's been peddled by the GOP for months. The documents, totaling 37 pages, were not marked classified at the time they were sent, but are being upgraded NOW at the request of the Intelligence Community because they contain sensitive information.

"All I can tell you definitively is it wasn't marked classified at the time it was sent," Kirby said.

This means she's not liable because it was retroactively classified.

I completely agree it was stupid for her to use a private email server, but the regulations at State (at the time) did not forbid it. She's not going to be prosecuted.

Is that passive-aggressive enough, ULIZOS?

Did she not notice never giving or receiving classified emails ? Guilty of being an incompetent moron or asleep on the job ? Hillary is responsible for her aides that she recruited into this hairbrained scheme not to mention there are emails showing her own explicit active criminal intent to circumvent the law. She may not be prosecuted, that is a political decision, but there is going to be a recommendation for her indictment.

[ULIZOS]

Ulizos you're such a cunt.

[Nightshade]

Did she not notice never giving or receiving classified emails ? Guilty of being an incompetent moron or asleep on the job ? Hillary is responsible for her aides that she recruited into this hairbrained scheme not to mention there are emails showing her own explicit active criminal intent to circumvent the law. She may not be prosecuted, that is a political decision, but there is going to be a recommendation for her indictment.

Well, I am not Hillary so I can't answer that. However, the State Department has said that emails must be marked "Classified" with certain markers in order for someone to know the email contains sensitive information. They did say no one would know for sure without that marker, so Hillary likely escapes blame because the sender didn't mark it properly. I realize that is very tenuous defense, but that's the law and "technically" she didn't break it if she wasn't told it was classified. That's her out.

Please post links to those emails you say show her active criminal intent. I would love to read them and have a good reason to vote for Bernie.

[elayman]

Well, I am not Hillary so I can't answer that. However, the State Department has said that emails must be marked "Classified" with certain markers in order for someone to know the email contains sensitive information. They did say no one would know for sure without that marker, so Hillary likely escapes blame because the sender didn't mark it properly. I realize that is very tenuous defense, but that's the law and "technically" she didn't break it if she wasn't told it was classified. That's her out.

Please post links to those emails you say show her active criminal intent. I would love to read them and have a good reason to vote for Bernie.

Well, that is her story to the one cover up email that drawn scrutiny so far -- that she needed the talking points ASAP and was convinced the sender wouldn't do anything reckless. But whether Sullivan sent the email or not is irrelevant. The fact that Hillary, as SoS, instructed him to remove the headers of a classified message and send it unclassified is a Felony. Period.

“This is another instance where what is common practice — I need information, I had some points I had to make and I was waiting for a secure fax that could give me the whole picture, but oftentimes there is a lot of information that isn’t at all classified,” Clinton said Sunday on "Face the Nation." “So whatever information can be appropriately transmitted unclassified often was. That’s true for every agency in the government and everybody that does business with the government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/09/us/hillary-clinton-email-state-department.html?_r=0

On a Friday morning in June 2011, after Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had waited more than 12 hours for a set of talking points to be sent to her, a top aide told her the delay was because staff members were having problems sending faxes that would be secure from probing eyes.

“If they can’t, turn into nonpaper w no identifying heading and send nonsecure,” Mrs. Clinton responded in an email released early Friday by the State Department, one of about 3,000 newly released pages of Mrs. Clinton’s emails during her time as secretary of state. Of those, 66 documents contained classified information.

The note she sent to the top aide, Jacob J. Sullivan, instructing him how to strip sensitive material of official markings and send it in a “nonsecure” way is heavily redacted, so it is unknown what the talking points were about.

Obstruction of justice, Making false statements, Destruction of evidence, Disclosure of classified information, Classified information on a nonsecured server...Clinton has violated all of these statutes numerous times, just based on the publicly available facts and her public statements. There should be an indictment with several hundred counts coming from the Justice Department. Her national security obligation under the law is to properly handle all classified material, marked or unmarked She knew the rules. She swore to follow them. And now she's pretending those rules didn't exist.

[Skin]

Why does everybody hate Hilary now?

I have no clue. Its not like she has made this HUGE transformation from 2008 in any way shape or form when everyone here was up her ass like crazy. She is pretty much the same exact politician. In fact the only position of change I can see is her now supporting gay marriage which most dems running in 2008 didn't. If anything she has been forced more to the left thanks to Bernie being in the race.

I even said in 2008 when I was like one of two people on here going hard for Obama that many on the left don't like Hillary because she is seen by many to be too hawkish and republican light on many issues. I was stoned and called an "Obamabot" like crazy. But NOWWWWW everyone decides to come around. Fuckers.

And I am STILL voting for her if she is the nominee and will be happy to do so because for the billionth time what is my other option? Not wasting my damn vote on some no name that doesn't stand a chance.

Now back to the emails....

[Nightshade]

Well, that is her story to the one cover up email that drawn scrutiny so far -- that she needed the talking points ASAP and was convinced the sender wouldn't do anything reckless. But whether Sullivan sent the email or not is irrelevant. The fact that Hillary, as SoS, instructed him to remove the headers of a classified message and send it unclassified is a Felony. Period.

Obstruction of justice, Making false statements, Destruction of evidence, Disclosure of classified information, Classified information on a nonsecured server...Clinton has violated all of these statutes numerous times, just based on the publicly available facts and her public statements. There should be an indictment with several hundred counts coming from the Justice Department. Her national security obligation under the law is to properly handle all classified material, marked or unmarked She knew the rules. She swore to follow them. And now she's pretending those rules didn't exist.

First of all, the Sullivan message was never confirmed to actually contain classified material in the talking points. State Dept officials routinely send non-classified info via secure fax regardless and there is no evidence of wrong-doing there.

And if she admitted to a felony publicly - you say it yourself right there - then how is she making a false statement? How is she obstruction justice if her public statements are validating your argument?

It's funny you should bring up statutes...

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

(b) As used in subsection (a) of this section—

The term “classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

They have already stated the emails previously discussed were NOT classified AT THE TIME of transmission. If they were retroactively classified, she is not guilty of this particular statute.

Anyway, I am done defending Hillary on this particular topic. I really don't think even a logical discussion is changing anyone's mind and I think most people here have already decided to hate her regardless of any facts. If some of you are so certain of her indictment then I guess you have nothing to fear - you believe she'll be indicted and her campaign will fail. Since you are so certain, it must come to pass.

[Skin]

Nightshade I have always respected your opinion on political issues because you do know your shit.

Do you have any idea when Hillary might be cleared of all this email nonsense officially? Is it in the near future or is this going to draaaaaagggggg out forever still?

[elayman]

First of all, the Sullivan message was never confirmed to actually contain classified material in the talking points. State Dept officials routinely send non-classified info via secure fax regardless and there is no evidence of wrong-doing there.

And if she admitted to a felony publicly - you say it yourself right there - then how is she making a false statement? How is she obstruction justice if her public statements are validating your argument?

It's funny you should bring up statutes...

18 U.S. Code § 798 - Disclosure of classified information

(b) As used in subsection (a) of this section—

The term “classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

They have already stated the emails previously discussed were NOT classified AT THE TIME of transmission. If they were retroactively classified, she is not guilty of this particular statute.

Anyway, I am done defending Hillary on this particular topic. I really don't think even a logical discussion is changing anyone's mind and I think most people here have already decided to hate her regardless of any facts. If some of you are so certain of her indictment then I guess you have nothing to fear - you believe she'll be indicted and her campaign will fail. Since you are so certain, it must come to pass.

The point is that Clinton didn't know, or hasn't said in her defense that she know, whether it contained classified information or not and that is beside the point of whether she gave the order to have a header unlawfully altered. Hillary didn't tell Sullivan to remove the classified information from the talking points. If everything was unclassified it likely wouldn't have been so urgent, wouldn't have been marked as classified and wouldn't have been attempted to send for several hours over a secure fax.

Two Inspectors General I believe flagged email that contained highly classified info on the North Korean nuclear program and Iran nuclear talks from the moment they were generated, either "top secret" or "secret." And that was before the "top secret" dump which should have been unambiguously ascertained as classified. It was her duty as the nation's chief diplomat with a top security clearance to assess and recognize classified information regardless of official markings.If she was incapable of that basic responsibility than don't do anything dodgy over an unsecured server that was no doubt hacked on numerous occasions. Reuters in an independent review found dozens that were classified "secret" at the time. So that is an ongoing dispute. Just as her email assertions continue to change over time.It is a moot point in any case if there is any document Clinton signed acknowledging that negligent handling of classified information, whether marked or unmarked, could seriously jeopardize national security. To never deal overtly with sensitive information she was obviously well aware of the importance of classified markings and had ordered her aides to defeat that system.

Which is why any rank and file member of the intelligence community would have been shown the door immediately after having been suspected of mishandling sensitive information.They would be in prison, heavily fined and been barred from ever receiving a security clearance again.

[ULIZOS]

I have no clue. Its not like she has made this HUGE transformation from 2008 in any way shape or form when everyone here was up her ass like crazy. She is pretty much the same exact politician. In fact the only position of change I can see is her now supporting gay marriage which most dems running in 2008 didn't. If anything she has been forced more to the left thanks to Bernie being in the race.

I even said in 2008 when I was like one of two people on here going hard for Obama that many on the left don't like Hillary because she is seen by many to be too hawkish and republican light on many issues. I was stoned and called an "Obamabot" like crazy. But NOWWWWW everyone decides to come around. Fuckers.

And I am STILL voting for her if she is the nominee and will be happy to do so because for the billionth time what is my other option? Not wasting my damn vote on some no name that doesn't stand a chance.

Now back to the emails....

I'll be the first to admit that I supported Hillary back in 2008. I was very misinformed. Knew nothing about her. I was also like 20. I thought Gaga was cool and hip back then, too.

[ULIZOS]

Also, it's Friday. Why are you people on Madonnanation. I went out for indian food and alcohol and you guys are on here going on and on about this old frigid bat.

Yes, that was misogynist.

[Nightshade]

Nightshade I have always respected your opinion on political issues because you do know your shit.

Do you have any idea when Hillary might be cleared of all this email nonsense officially? Is it in the near future or is this going to draaaaaagggggg out forever still?

Thanks man!

The reason this is dragging out is because they are releasing batches of her emails over a period of months (because there were so many) - so basically what we are seeing is a fight between the State Dept. and other government agencies about what content should go into the public domain and what should stay classified. It will likely continue for another few months until all her emails have been reviewed and released. I think they are about 2/3's the way through but I am not 100% sure. I am hoping it is done with by April. Even if it dragged on into the fall of this year, I am not sure how much damage it would do since this story has been going on for months now and it doesn't seem to hurt her that much in the polls. If some true "smoking gun" were found, I suspect we'd already know about it. Remember, Hillary's team already went through the emails and it's unlikely they'd not tell her if there was something incriminating in the emails, nor is it likely they'd actually turn it over to the FBI (which would indeed be a crime) but suspicion does not automatically equate to guilt in the eyes of the law. I think parts of the media are making a big deal about this latest announcement today because Iowa votes on Monday and there are powerful people who don't want to see her elected. Most of them are GOP politicians or their allies.

Not that anyone has asked my personal opinion on this but I'll offer it. On the one hand, I think she's on thin ice (legally) but she'll survive it. The Clintons are well known for escaping scandals by the skin of their teeth, mostly because they may not actually break the law but they certainly push the ethical lines right up to it. Both Bill and Hillary have a history of this type of behavior and I think that's why they have an air of mistrust about them. I am not arguing that it is undeserved. However, do I think she was using a secret server to transmit State Dept. secrets to the Chinese or the Russians? Absolutely not. I do not believe her to be a traitor in any sense of the word. I genuinely believe she wants to be a good leader, but I also believe her to be ruthless and she cuts corners periodically for political expediency and/or her own gain. I think Obama is probably less like that. His administration has been relatively scandal-free compared to Bill's.

Some on here might ask, "Well why would you vote for her if you don't even trust her?" The answer is somewhat complex but here's my best stab: I am a realist and a cynic. I do not believe one politician alone will miraculously save our country or bring us together or install universal health care. Obama is proof of that. If he couldn't do it with a filibuster-proof Democratic majority, what makes anyone think Bernie can? That change will have to come from the people themselves and right now we still have about 40% or more who would actually vote for someone like Trump. When you look at the political parties right now they are so polarized I don't think they will compromise on much no matter who is President.

I love Bernie, I really do. I think he's probably the most decent and honest politician out there right now. He's also 74 and a socialist. He has also been elected from one of the most liberal states in the Union (with very little conservative opposition along the way), and has never faced a serious wave of attacks by the GOP billionaire class. Although he is closer to my political beliefs than Clinton, he is not a tested candidate. I wasn't alive for the defeat of George McGovern in 1972, but I fear that would be the result (probably not quite as bad since Bernie would definitely carry the blue states). This next election is not a time for untested candidates. If we lose, we will likely lose to Trump or Cruz, or a Republican who will be pushed into a far right agenda that affects the Supreme Court, health care, the environment and even social security. A radical right must never rise to power in this country. Ever.

So it's not a matter of Clinton being this amazing candidate. She's flawed for sure, but she's also a well-known commodity. A lesser of two evils, and she'd be far less damaging to the U.S. than Trump, Cruz, or any Republican right now, actually. However, I don't think she is as bad as many make her out to be and I vote for her knowing that if she does win the White House there will be more scandals, more ethics probes, and more drama that constantly seems to pervade the Clinton universe. She may even only serve 1 term, but she's pragmatic and tough, and I respect those parts of her personality.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Here's great article on the electability argument that articulates a lot of why I feel the way I do.

[GOD]

I bet her holy water tastes like miso soup.

[Guest]

I WANT A FEMALE PRESIDENT. AMERICUNTS! YOU MUST ALL VOTE FOR HILARITY CLINTON!!!!

[Moka]

Why does everybody hate Hilary now?

When the general election comes and it's Hillary vs Trump, they will all vote for Hillary and shut their dirty mouths

[ULIZOS]

I'm voting for Trump. That's how much I hate her.

[elayman]

I’d take a guess that the hundreds of FBI agents on this case are now aiming it at the Clinton Foundation and looking at donations, timing, and what favors were promised. If any of these classified reports went into the Clinton Foundation server....who read them....who shared them....and did any foreign contributors get the information. Hillary and her aides most likely didn't go to the end of the earth to resist State Department suggestions to use an official email address for the thrill of it. Trump may have had to deal with the mob to get anything done in the 1980's NYC construction industry but at least he has never been accused of breaking any laws.