Changing Critical Perceptions of Madonna's Work

[Shane]

I thought this would make an interesting thread, coming off of my comments regarding the Top 50 Madonna songs in the new RS.

Critics' consensus of an artist's work will sometimes change over time. I'm interested in your perceptions as to what Madonna material has gained a new critical appreciation over the years, what has lost some of its acclaim, and what has held steady.

I'll start:

I think that Open Your Heart has gained in stature. It was always a hugely popular song with fans, but its high rank on Slant's Top 100 of the 80s and the new RS countdown find it emerging as a highlight of that decade. I also think the Erotica and American Life cds are looked at as mistakenly ignored masterpieces, although ironically, Erotica did receive a lot of great reviews at the time of its release. The Madonna album has also risen to huge levels of acclaim.

Interestingly, I feel like the Music album has gone down in critical estimation (not in mine, though). Upon its release, it was easily one of her most universally acclaimed albums. When all of the lists came out this year ranking her catalog at the time of Rebel Heart's release, I was surprised at how low Music appeared on most of them. I also feel like Papa Don't Preach, one of her most critically acclaimed and biggest singles ever, is possibly starting to be overshadowed by Open Your Heart, but time will tell.

As for what has held steady over the years as critical favorites: Live To Tell, the Like A Prayer album, the Like A Prayer and Express Yourself singles, Vogue, Ray of Light album and single, Frozen, Music single, and Hung Up.

I'd love to hear your thoughts because I don't just write this stuff to hear myself talk.

[material_boy]

It seems to me that "Like a Virgin" has both depreciated and regained its stature with critics and the media in the past 15 or so years. I recall a number of the "looking back" articles that came out around the time of "Music"'s release listing it as one of the weaker albums in her catalogue, but now it seems to be universally acclaimed. Maybe it's a ripple effect of Nile Rodgers' comeback with Daft Punk.

I don't think "Erotica" is looked back on as a bad album, so much that it's ignored entirely. I feel like I see the word "overshadowed" (with regard to "Sex") every time someone writes about it, with nothing actually said about the music itself. "Bedtime Stories" falls into the same camp -- it had glowing reviews on its release, but people seem to forget that it ever existed now.

"American Life" has somehow gotten an even worse reputation as its aged. It got mixed reviews when it was released, and today it's almost exclusively used as a punchline by critics and music journalists.

"Music" seems to be walking a strange line between "still beloved" -- it still pops up on "greatest albums ever" lists -- and people simply forgetting it exists, like they do "Erotica" and "Bedtime Stories." Not sure how to explain it.

[qans1990]

I think it's interesting that Like A Prayer has become THE defining Madonna song, which I think had always been Like A Virgin or Material Girl up until the Super Bowl.

[ITG]

I think it all goes in rotation. Depends how often songs are heard. And a possibility is how a song is performed over the years whether or not it stays in our memories.

I agree Like A Virgin has gained momentum again, I think that's because of her RH Tour performance. She's shines performing on her own.

Music has taken a step back definitely. I can't put my finger on why that is. Maybe because she performed it (the song) so much & it had a lot of radio play?!

I don't know why American Life & Bedtime Stories seem to be on the back burner. I find them to be very engaging & interesting albums. Maybe American Life never gained momentum because of the politics at the time? And Bedtime Stories because of the SEX backlash?

Seems people always want to hear Like A Prayer performed live, & at parties & nightclubs, people really get into it.

It's quite hard to gage, I'm not much of a review reader, but just what I've seen over time.

[erotica blu]

"American Life" has somehow gotten an even worse reputation as its aged. It got mixed reviews when it was released, and today it's almost exclusively used as a punchline by critics and music journalists.

It's pure laziness people are dismissive of American Life. It has some of the strongest music she'll ever record touching genius.

[Roland Barthes]

It depends on what is current at the time when these lists are made. 10 years ago "Like a virgin" sounded dated even Nile Rodgers said so "As a fan of her music it is not my favourite album of hers" but since Nile and his music made a comeback "Like a virgin" (the album he was involved in that sold the most in his whole career) started ranking higher. Confessions and Music may sound a bit dated today but in 10 years when another cycle (and generation) of music will take place they will be regarded better. It's just that her catalogue is so diverse and each album encompass perfectly a period in music like time capsules. If you listen to all her albums back to back you get an instant picture frame of what music was in each era in the last 30 years+.

[loowee]

I truly believe that Rebel Heart will eventually be regarded as one of her greatest records/achievements just like Erotica.

[material_boy]

I think it's interesting that Like A Prayer has become THE defining Madonna song, which I think had always been Like A Virgin or Material Girl up until the Super Bowl.

That started long before the Superbowl. Every woman I knew in college would request "LAP" when they went to a house party. "LAP" and "Billie Jean" were the two songs that I'd hear at basically every single house party. I went to college in the 00s and those were simply the definitive 80s songs on people's playlists.

If I had to try and pinpoint when it started to transform from "controversial masterpiece" into "universally appealing / uplifting empowerment song," then I'd guess it was around 2003-2004. I think her renditions of it on the "American Life" promo tour and Reinvention changed how a lot of people saw it.

[nick00]

There was a time when "hip" types in media actually saw Madonna more of a progressive artist as opposed to bland top 40 schtick.She got added hipster points and the cool factor during albums, such as, ROL, Music, Confessions, etc.

[Glindathegood]

I think if Music has gone down in critical appreciation it's because it's very eclectic and mixed in its genre. A lot of people in the media or even fans like to categorize things and sum an album up in themes or a neat box. Music has some Orbit tracks, the acoustic thing and dance leaning songs. It has fun and more serious songs so it's kind of hard to sum up. It's really a mixed bag. Whereas albums like Erotica, American Life and Confessions are more unified in sounds and themes.

Music was a transitional album between what some might say was the more artistic/alternative sound of ROL/American Life and the more dance pop commercial sound of Confessions so it's a little confusing to sum up but I still love it!

[Glindathegood]

There was a time when "hip" types in media actually saw Madonna more of a progressive artist as opposed to bland top 40 schtick.She got added hipster points and the cool factor during albums, such as, ROL, Music, Confessions, etc.

I would say Ray of Light, American Life and Music are her most "hip/alternative leaning albums that the so called cool critics would praise. Confessions doesn't fit into that since it's influenced by disco and is a straight up pop/dance album.

[XXL]

I would say Ray of Light, American Life and Music are her most "hip/alternative leaning albums that the so called cool critics would praise. Confessions doesn't fit into that since it's influenced by disco and is a straight up pop/dance album.

I agree in part. I don't think COADF sounded like anything dance or disco at the time or before. Aside from the ABBA sample and the fact that it enjoyed great radio support and commercial reception, I still found the sound experimental and fresh. Obviously ROL, Music and AL saw her at her most experimental, ROL and AL in particular

[XXL]

It depends on what is current at the time when these lists are made. 10 years ago "Like a virgin" sounded dated even Nile Rodgers said so "As a fan of her music it is not my favourite album of hers" but since Nile and his music made a comeback "Like a virgin" (the album he was involved in that sold the most in his whole career) started ranking higher. Confessions and Music may sound a bit dated today but in 10 years when another cycle (and generation) of music will take place they will be regarded better. It's just that her catalogue is so diverse and each album encompass perfectly a period in music like time capsules. If you listen to all her albums back to back you get an instant picture frame of what music was in each era in the last 30 years+.

Totally agree

[TRVC]

Easy. In the US, it's all about 80's Madonna and somewhat Ray Of Light. THAT IS IT. Everything else by critics is ignored.

[tasteinmen]

I thought I posted yesterday but it doesn't look like I did. I feel too many critics and GP are desperately pigeon-holing her as an 80s act, I've seen so many comments and articles that say something on the lines of "I liked her music in the 80s... now she's just desperate", which is ridiculous and disrespectful...

I also feel as though the same people like to pretend that she hasn't had any major success since Ray of Light (which was a one off post 80s), they forget that Music era was a great success, as well as Confessions, and so on.

[ULIZOS]

I think she lost a lot of hipster points after Hard Candy. I remember my hipster friends being horrified by the fact that she was working with Justin Timberlake.

These same friends just roll their eyes when they hear that she's working with Nicki Minaj or Lil Wayne or... Avinci.

[Roland Barthes]

If only her back catalogue was handled better. Her compilations made better. It's Madonna's fault since she does not like looking back but she should realize that her hard work for the last 30 years+ is being underminded for lack of exposure.

That's what Madonna.com should be for. She should make a deal with Youtube / Vevo / Warner to have ALL her videos in pristine condition available.

On Madonna.com there should be a page dedicated to each album, each single, detailling what the critics said at the time, how they charted + the story behind them, remixes etc....It's not that hard. A fan would do it. They just need to make a deal with Warner. Each page should have every important mix of each song available or made available with a buy link that sends you to itunes and every other plateforms.

Like a Wikipedia page but on her website with the video and audio files + pictures available.

[Shane]

After reading some comments, I want to add that I think that a lot of her 90s work is regarded quite highly by many critics.

When Slant published their 100 best singles of the 80s, she and Prince had the most entries with five apiece. But Madonna was right back on their 100 best singles of the 90s with five more: Vogue, Erotica, Deeper and Deeper, Secret, and Ray Of Light.

Interestingly, I think it's her fans who tend to downplay the strength of her mid-90s ballad era (Rain, I'll Remember, Take a Bow, You'll See) whereas the general public remembers those songs with the utmost fondness.