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Madonna in Dangerous Game aka Snake Eyes Appreciation!


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0kdS1UUhxk

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NY Times Review:

Mr. Ferrara retains enough detachment to see that a man as wasted as Eddie may not be working at the peak of his talents, and that when he encourages his actors to improvise, the results may not always be golden. "I want you to hit the points about the American way of life," he instructs his actor, who then simply inserts the word "consumerism" into one of his wife-abusing harangues.

Whatever else actors do in Mr. Ferrara's films, there's no question that they're given real opportunities to act.

And Madonna submits impressively to the emotions raging furiously around her. She cries, whines, pleads and lets herself look dreadful for Eddie's camera. But she becomes a much more nonchalant presence in private moments, like the scene that finds her in bed with her co-star. (Mr. Ferrara saves a particularly mocking surprise for the end of this episode.) The role, which isn't glamorous, is free of artifice in a way that Madonna's screen roles seldom are. Viewers may actually have to remind themselves that they've seen this actress somewhere before

http://www.nytimes.com/movie/review?res=9F0CE5DF103AF93AA25752C1A965958260

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Abel Ferrara on how this film affected his career in a 2007 interview

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http://www.avclub.com/article/abel-ferrara-13793

O: Do you feel like your reputation was affected by the drama over Dangerous Game?
AF: No. It was just another one of our films that never came out. But on that one, the audience didn't really like the film. Madonna killed it. The first impression people get on a movie is the one that never gets out of their mind. So after Madonna got so trashed for doing Body Of Evidence, she thought she was going to beat the critics to the punch and badmouth the film. And she actually got good reviews.
She never got a good review from the Voice or The New York Times in her life, but she got good reviews for this movie, which she came out and trashed. I'll never forgive her for it.
O: Did you sense during the production that she was going to be a problem when the film came out?
AF: No, I couldn't believe that. Because no matter what somebody thinks of the film, it's family business. Believe me, I hear it from every actor when they see the final cut of every movie, because the actors only remember the scenes that didn't make it in. But I never had an actor badmouth a movie. It's just something that isn't done. But she's not a film-business person. She doesn't know the protocol, the traditions of the trade.
O: It's about managing her own image, I suppose.
AF: It's being paranoid, man. It's being paranoid and scared, and that's the reason she can't act, because she hasn't got confidence. Because if you don't have confidence, the camera sees that and comes barreling through.
O: She has the confidence to get on stage...
AF: Yeah, she has the confidence to get on stage and sing, but she ain't got confidence to get in front of the camera. I'm talking about a different kind of confidence, that ability to look into the eye of the camera without looking at the camera, you know what I'm saying? What do you think of her fucking films?
O: They're all pretty terrible, but I remember thinking she fit pretty well into Dangerous Game.
AF: Yeah, that's because she plays an actress who's so bad, the director commits suicide. Who else would be better for the part?
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Best performance of hers in film. When I think about it I find it odd that she can act so amazingly, then do a doozy of a film TNBT!

I get blown away by her in DG. I find her mesmerising!

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Forget Evita, she had her best perf in this movie.

And she was at her most beautiful too. It's a shame she was in the midst of a major backlash, otherwise she may have been more cautious about badmouthing the movie. Apparently she wasn't happy with the final cut or something, but still. It's the director's movie not yours Madonna :lol:

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Becuz Madonna likes autonomy. She probably was able to micromanage Swept Away and felt more comfortable with the end result becuz it was partly her vision. Even tho it was awful. But she can't be objective. It's been repeated many times; she's got every attribute of a performer and creator, none of an actor. That's why W.E. was a decent little movie. Her foray into film as a director makes way more sense. W.E. doesn't have the best script but its a good little first/second timer. She had full control and it was her vision.

Dangerous Game was a vulnerable performance by her and it likely made her uncomfortable. She had to bad mouth it to make herself feel more at ease.

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Forget Evita, she had her best perf in this movie.

And she was at her most beautiful too. It's a shame she was in the midst of a major backlash, otherwise she may have been more cautious about badmouthing the movie. Apparently she wasn't happy with the final cut or something, but still. It's the director's movie not yours Madonna :lol:

Love them all, but there was no way venturing into the world with Ferrara, Keitel and Russo was ever going to be a female film....she was naive in this regard. It isn't beyond Ferrara to sign away anything for financing and "fuck you" later when the final cut becomes sacrosanct, he's famous for being a law to himself, but I think in truth M basically felt betrayed by the result and simply used that as an excuse.

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Becuz Madonna likes autonomy. She probably was able to micromanage Swept Away and felt more comfortable with the end result becuz it was partly her vision. Even tho it was awful. But she can't be objective. It's been repeated many times; she's got every attribute of a performer and creator, none of an actor. That's why W.E. was a decent little movie. Her foray into film as a director makes way more sense. W.E. doesn't have the best script but its a good little first/second timer. She had full control and it was her vision.

Dangerous Game was a vulnerable performance by her and it likely made her uncomfortable. She had to bad mouth it to make herself feel more at ease.

I think she also realized on some level that Ferrara was absolutely unique in allowing the different elements to collide at full throttle -- film within a film, scenes of family life, shootage from video rehearsals that may or may not be staged, encouraging extemporaneous, off the cuff dialogue, with mostly one shot takes, sitting in a corner with a glass of wine and allowing the film to basically shoot itself :D it was not a process that was going to be replicated on a standard set or any project she would likely be involved with again. Say what you will about Ferrara films, the actors are able to act. And not only Madonna but in many, many cases he gets the performance of a career out of his famous stars.

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This thread is turning into folklore comedy and opinion being passed off as fact circa 1994.

Tread lightly.

As a Madonna fan, it's a different sort of light to see her in on film. So beautiful and holds her own. The director cut it differently than it was presented to her when she agreed to star in it (ie, he lied). I'd be pissed too.

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she bad mouthed it because he used footage of her talking about something personal which he filmed and he put it in the movie without her knowledge. thats what i heard anyway. i think its the improv scene.

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Best performance of hers in film. When I think about it I find it odd that she can act so amazingly, then do a doozy of a film TNBT!

I get blown away by her in DG. I find her mesmerising!

She spoke positively about the experience to the L.A. Times during Evita is what I find so inexplicable and then proceeds to work (again) with directors that may be famous but have no chance of extracting all encompassing, life altering searing performances on anything close to a similar level. :/

One perceived strike against Madonna was her appearance in so many mundane films--"Shanghai Surprise," "Who's That Girl" and "Body of Evidence" among them. "I absolutely agree," she shrugged. She described her experiences on film sets as "soul destroying, with the exception of the movie I did with Abel Ferrara ["Dangerous Game"]. That destroyed my soul in a different way because it was such a violent emotional experience. But at least I felt I was going somewhere, exploring new territory. I feel everything else I've done has been rather trivial."

http://articles.latimes.com/1996-09-29/entertainment/ca-48560_1_madonna-films-evita/3

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she bad mouthed it because he used footage of her talking about something personal which he filmed and he put it in the movie without her knowledge. thats what i heard anyway. i think its the improv scene.

yes, you will see her with juliette honan (sp) her friend at the time. those are the natural scenes. her being her. thats why it kind of works. its a shame about the movie because it is such a dud. although her performance is noteworthy.

and this is very true:

AF: No, I couldn't believe that. Because no matter what somebody thinks of the film, it's family business. Believe me, I hear it from every actor when they see the final cut of every movie, because the actors only remember the scenes that didn't make it in. But I never had an actor badmouth a movie. It's just something that isn't done. But she's not a film-business person. She doesn't know the protocol, the traditions of the trade.
i always think it was sean penn that taught her this spoiled brat way of being.
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Dangerous Game is one of only a couple of studio films Ferrara has ever done so Madonna and Maverick definitely got it more theatrical distribution than most of his films which go straight to video. She didn't 'kill' it by any stretch but she didn't help nearly as much as she could have either. :(.

Presumably M still loves his work and he has been more respectful of her as a director than actress...it would be awesome if they could get together in some capacity again with her money and him struggling like a perpetual film school graduate for funding and distribution. They are alike in so many respects it's absolutely a match made in heaven. :)

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I think the final film is brilliant, completely fascinating to watch; but it looks like it would have been a terrible experience to shoot.

Like Isabella Rossellini said about his next film, "There was so much confusion, you never knew if the camera was on or off, if they're fighting for real or doing a scene. Everything had the potential to be in the movie, if the camera was rolling it kept rolling." Not to mention drug dealing on the set (before Ferrara was sober) and getting raped and killed onscreen by the best friend of Sean Penn when you went in to recover from an abusive marriage. Gut wrenchingly painful no doubt but so many unforeseen elements being introduced from the real world was also what allowed Madonna to eventually break down and go forward with the emotion in a big way.

The original workprint was a little under four hours so something was always going to have to go, most of what made her part strong, accessible and feminist friendly was most likely out before rehearsals even ended. Madonna was definitely misled in that she and Franco were the only two of the four that apparently were unaware throughout that the scripted lines would never be used, but no one was outright lied to that I know. On the merits of the film itself I basically agree with Harvey Keitel's observation that there are brilliant moments but that something in the central story is lacking.

http://www.bitlanders.com/movie/abel-ferrara-on-dangerous-game-working-with-madonna/25117

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This thread is turning into folklore comedy and opinion being passed off as fact circa 1994.

Tread lightly.

As a Madonna fan, it's a different sort of light to see her in on film. So beautiful and holds her own. The director cut it differently than it was presented to her when she agreed to star in it (ie, he lied). I'd be pissed too.

Waaaaa

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She's so wonderful in it but the movie is terrible, it's such a narcissistic entreprise, self fascination exercize by Ferrara. If he drunk less he could be able to make another Bad Lieutenant, It's been 20 years now and all his movies are terrible duds and from people who had to deal with him and i know, he's not a nice person. AT ALL.

Madonna was a producer on ths movie and if she was such a bitch she could have asked for final cut which she didn't asked for.

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She's so wonderful in it but the movie is terrible, it's such a narcissistic entreprise, self fascination exercize by Ferrara. If he drunk less he could be able to make another Bad Lieutenant, It's been 20 years now and all his movies are terrible duds and from people who had to deal with him and i know, he's not a nice person. AT ALL.

Madonna was a producer on ths movie and if she was such a bitch she could have asked for final cut which she didn't asked for.

Ferrara has been away from all drugs since 2011-2012 and one billion times happier sober than not (at least lol), so whatever you think of the recent work like M always says maybe we shouldn't be too quick to judge cause none of us know where either that person or we are going to eventually end up. :)

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She's so wonderful in it but the movie is terrible, it's such a narcissistic entreprise, self fascination exercize by Ferrara. If he drunk less he could be able to make another Bad Lieutenant, It's been 20 years now and all his movies are terrible duds and from people who had to deal with him and i know, he's not a nice person. AT ALL.

Madonna was a producer on ths movie and if she was such a bitch she could have asked for final cut which she didn't asked for.

True. I remember seeing this at the cinema and being blown away by how great Madonna's performance was. Although I have adored her in other movies, often her acting is pretty bad due to her always looking so terrified and self conscious. Her vulnerability was completely exposed in this and her acting was honest and dare I say it, brilliant. She totally nailed this part but the movie itself was a nasty misogynist mess.

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I don't think it is misogynistic at all. Just as one example, Eddie Israel's wife Matlyn is held up as the true protagonist at the heart of an otherwise tragic vision. A pillar of graciousness, strength of character, sincerity and a kind of non Hollywood, non performative morality which the other characters are unable to allow themselves to embrace and the rejection of which in the end is what more than anything seals their descent into madness and ultimately death

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I prefer body of evidence over this mess ... the direction and acting was dreadful ... I will never get all the hoopla for it

If there's one great thing about DG is exactly Madonna's acting in it, something even Ferrara concedes, mentioning how she never got a good review for her film work by the likes of the NY Times before and how with this film she did instead

Madonna's acting in Dangerous Game shits all over any other performance of hers in movies which aren't Evita, which she was marvellous in but where she's also in her musical element and playing a bigger than life character, i.e. more akin to her real life persona. And it shits all over her acting in BOD, of all films you could have mentioned :lol:

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Ferrara absolutely adored Truth or Dare and being a wannabe musician himself plus scrounging for money/work it would be cool if they could do at least a video together. Anyone that has personal access (or to Harvey Keitel or Chris Walken....) please make the suggestion. :D

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