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Is Madonna the most "ROCK star" of all POP stars?


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No, she is not.

Madonna is, without doubt, an amazing performer but time has shown that if something is not heavily choreographed, she is uncomfortable. Real 'rock' is not choreographed or over-prepared. Rock is spontaneous and pure. Madonna doesn't have the natural 'grunt' I characterise with rock. I would say P!nk is the most rock of the pop stars. She's the real deal, in that respect.

I think her body of work has proven just the opposite of that statement imo. She has very different type of choreos or performances where she's dancing and singing at the same time. Not everything is Vogue/EY BAT or MDNA GGW or other examples

She shines in every scenario and is not someone who cannot improvise on the spot and needs a structure to deliver a song or performance. Even when she's set up a structure she will occasionally defy it and find the time to change elements and details according to the situation

I remember when we had DWT, I was so impressed that she was singing and dancing without the headset. Granted the choreos for DWT were not as elaborate as say 1990 and 1993 choreos but she was all encompassing no less

And even back in 1987 when she was dancing her ass off on WTG she was not using a headset. I think WTG Tour is the freer she ever was/felt on stage. She doesn't need anything to contain her in order to deliver her best stage wise

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Pink :lmao:

IKR

There's nothing rock about Pink (LA Reid for goodness sake, it's like saying Max Martin or one of those)

She's found a way to differentiate her looks/stage persona from the Britneys and Aguileras and make it a little edgier

Doesn't mean she has a rock star vibe to her presentation or themes/content

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Don't see what's wrong with being a dance pop act

I think people are confusing the word rock as describing an unpredictable and wild personality. Madonna might give you the idea of being like that but in reality she's got discipline. She's pretty much very well behaved. Her quest wasn't to make a fool out of herself for "artistic" reasons.

Well the point in making this thread wasn't to imply that there is anything wrong in that but rather to celebrate Madonna's diversity, both sonically and as a performer in terms of her attitude and style, and the fact that despite her inventing the sing and dance formula for a mainstream artist, she's still got an element of wildness and rawness in how she relates to the stage and her audiences.

After all if there is someone who's the living embodiment of making your own choices and being your own kind of person as an act it's exactly someone like Madonna, who refused to indulge Camile musically speaking, when it came the moment to switch from being part of a band to getting a solo deal. yet her experiences with Emmy and BC are all there in her work. I always find her evolution as a musician, producer and artist so fascinating and encompassing so many different elements and experiences she's had along her rise. Besides Madonna started as a dancer so it's obvious she brought that sensibility to her music as well.

To me being comfortable and wild on a stage doesn't necessarily equate with the classic "Rock Star" sterotype of drugs and booze and lack of discipline. In that sense Madonna is the furthest example from the "Rock lifestyle" as possible. I meant something completely different with this thread, not that she's Guns And Roses, obviously.

Even when people write about U2 or Coldplay you often read rockstars when in fact their sound has always been much more melodic and closer to a "POP" sensibility than what used to define a rock star up until the 80s and certainly before that.

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Im on my phone. Someone post a video of Get Together

Live on TV. That's unchoreographed Madonna for you.

................................................

9741.jpg

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Well the point in making this thread wasn't to imply that there is anything wrong in that but rather to celebrate Madonna's diversity, both sonically and as a performer in terms of her attitude and style, and the fact that despite her inventing the sing and dance formula for a mainstream artist, she's still got an element of wilderness and rawness in how she relates to the stage and her audiences.

After all if there is someone who's the living embodiment of making your own choices and being your own kind of person as an act it's exactly someone like Madonna, who refused to indulge Camile musically speaking when it came to switch from being part of a band and getting a solo deal. yet her experiences with Emmy and BC are all there in her work. I always find her evolution as a musician, producer and artist so fascinating and encompassing so many different elements and experiences she's had along her rise. Besides Madonna started as a dancer so it's obvious she brought that sensibility to her music as well.

To me being comfortable and wild on a stage doesn't necessarily equate with the classic "Rock Star" sterotype of drugs and booze and lack of discipline. In that sense Madonna is the furthest example from the "Rock lifestyle" as possible. I meant something completely different with this thread, not that she's Guns And Roses, obviously.

Even when people write about U2 or Coldplay you often read rockstars when in fact their sound has always been much more melodic and closer to a "POP" sensibility than what used to define a rock star up until the 80s and certainly before that.

THIS.

XXL, I think I know what you're getting at with your original post. I think too many here are taking "rock" literally (as in sound/genre, or a very specific kind of rock star)...rather than what I think you're getting at, which is her overall attitude and inner sensibility as an artist, as a human being, etc... - which is a 'take my own path/will never apologize/will never play by your rules/take no prisoners' attitude. I don't know what's more "rock" than that...and it's no wonder that the hip-hop/rap/r&b folks recognize that too. It's about the mindset. I actually think Madonna has been more 'rock' than some of the big rock stars themselves, as you said, many of them have almost become and are more 'pop' in their overall sensibility. Madonna has taken on issues that so many from any genre haven't even dared...let alone how aggressively and unapologetically she has executed it. I think that because it comes in the genre/sound of mainstream dance/pop that it blinds folks from the bigger picture when it comes to her overall body of work. I'll go back to my first comment and reiterate that I think it all stems from her roots in the early New York days, and the entire culture around her, and how she had to hustle.

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Well the point in making this thread wasn't to imply that there is anything wrong in that but rather to celebrate Madonna's diversity, both sonically and as a performer in terms of her attitude and style, and the fact that despite her inventing the sing and dance formula for a mainstream artist, she's still got an element of wilderness and rawness in how she relates to the stage and her audiences.

After all if there is someone who's the living embodiment of making your own choices and being your own kind of person as an act it's exactly someone like Madonna, who refused to indulge Camile musically speaking, when it came the moment to switch from being part of a band to getting a solo deal. yet her experiences with Emmy and BC are all there in her work. I always find her evolution as a musician, producer and artist so fascinating and encompassing so many different elements and experiences she's had along her rise. Besides Madonna started as a dancer so it's obvious she brought that sensibility to her music as well.

To me being comfortable and wild on a stage doesn't necessarily equate with the classic "Rock Star" sterotype of drugs and booze and lack of discipline. In that sense Madonna is the furthest example from the "Rock lifestyle" as possible. I meant something completely different with this thread, not that she's Guns And Roses, obviously.

Even when people write about U2 or Coldplay you often read rockstars when in fact their sound has always been much more melodic and closer to a "POP" sensibility than what used to define a rock star up until the 80s and certainly before that.

:clap:
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and her lav/ls performance was different almost every night on MDNA. the concept was the same, but she put her own impulsive touch on it every time depending how she felt that night. compared to the choreographed spectacles. even je t'aime moi non plus is a bit "rock" in the way she was performing that song. I'm not talking about literally being hardcore and suddenly throwing up on stage because she wants some "cred", I'm talking about her attitude.

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Madonna has a 'rock'n'roll' personality with elements of rock in her music.

However, that isn't the final extent of it. Her music has touched on elements of hip hop, electronica, trip hop, country, folk, jazz and even world music. Some of her personality excesses can be quite hip hop. She's certainly never boring, which is exactly what rock is.

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THIS.

XXL, I think I know what you're getting at with your original post. I think too many here are taking "rock" literally (as in sound/genre, or a very specific kind of rock star)...rather than what I think you're getting at, which is her overall attitude and inner sensibility as an artist, as a human being, etc... - which is a 'take my own path/will never apologize/will never play by your rules/take no prisoners' attitude. I don't know what's more "rock" than that...and it's no wonder that the hip-hop/rap/r&b folks recognize that too. It's about the mindset. I actually think Madonna has been more 'rock' than some of the big rock stars themselves, as you said, many of them have almost become and are more 'pop' in their overall sensibility. Madonna has taken on issues that so many from any genre haven't even dared...let alone how aggressively and unapologetically she has executed it. I think that because it comes in the genre/sound of mainstream dance/pop that it blinds folks from the bigger picture when it comes to her overall body of work. I'll go back to my first comment and reiterate that I think it all stems from her roots in the early New York days, and the entire culture around her, and how she had to hustle.

Exactly! Some are taking XXL's post a bit literally. Everything you say is true. Her whole mindset and execution are what make her "rock". Whether she is the Boy Toy, Glamour girl, Earth Mother, Disco Dolly etc etc they ALL display the "rock and roll" aspect of Madonna.

I find it funny when fans of some of the other big pop divas get mad each year when RRHOF nominations are announced and their diva is never nominated. Of course they then go into the "but Madonna was inducted and she's pop......" rant. Sure her music is pop (with elements of just about every other genre) but SHE and the presentation of her art is certainly not. That is precisely why she was an obvious first year inductee while the others may be waiting eternally.

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Exactly! Some are taking XXL's post a bit literally. Everything you say is true. Her whole mindset and execution are what make her "rock". Whether she is the Boy Toy, Glamour girl, Earth Mother, Disco Dolly etc etc they ALL display the "rock and roll" aspect of Madonna.

I find it funny when fans of some of the other big pop divas get mad each year when RRHOF nominations are announced and their diva is never nominated. Of course they then go into the "but Madonna was inducted and she's pop......" rant. Sure her music is pop (with elements of just about every other genre) but SHE and the presentation of her art is certainly not. That is precisely why she was an obvious first year inductee while the others may be waiting eternally.

This x 1000!!!! Her whole esthetic is rock n roll in your face personality and performances. Her attitude is pure rock she makes you think,she offends,she pushes buttons, she doesnt conform, she goes against the grain and does what she wants.

This is why she was nominated and got into the rock n roll hall of fame it was her attitude and how she changed the world and did it her way she was her own boss didnt listen to anyone and wasnt manufactured one bit. She has bigger balls than most rock stars ever had. Id say she is one of the pioneers in female rock. A true leader and not a follower.

She is still doing it now she is rocking the ageism with her i dont give a fuck attitude and mindset.

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