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This whole "Ray of Lighters" thing needs to die


Apples388

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Ray of Light is one of my all time favorite albums, but I have to be honest I like her better as a person now. The whole very "spiritual" thing where you are lecturing other people about the right way to be, like you have all the answers to life is a turn off to me.

She seem so much fun and real now. People don't really change no matter how much spiritual stuff they study. I feel she is back to the Madonna I grew up with now.

People say she was more attentive to detail, but I feel it's good she's more open to working with different producers and writers now. I like the mix rather than one rigid concept.

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When I first come to this forum, I could not work out why "ray of lighter" was used. I loved all of the Madonna eras and did not identify purely with one album. But since, have found out what it means and can understand why people use it. I am sure that it is not aimed at people who love Ray of light or discovered Madonna through Ray of Light and is never meant to insult people that love the record. It is aimed purely at those who think every record that Madonna makes should be just like Ray of Light. They are all over comments in the media and are annoying - disliking most records before Ray of Light and always saying nothing new is as good as Ray or Light.

I think it should always be as good as Ray of Light. I don't think it should be Ray of Light, that would be boring.

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Im my opinion we have too many songs that dont have the attention to detail that she always had

Also, She worked the whole 2014 on the album with dozens of people songwrites and producers , from pharrel to that natasha kills and spent most of the year trying to find that direction she wanted to go with producers that have no time to create something organic with her, the product she delivered sounds a mix of songs for me thats why we dont even have the credits.

Definitely agree with some you said even though most fans probably disagree.

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Rebel Heart is one of her most organic and cohesive albums. I sincerely don't agree at all. It's her first album with a whole message since AL, her first album with Madonna trademark songs all over since Confessions, it has incredibly good songs. What else do you want?

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Guest bluejean

I wouldnt be posting regulary if I didnt care , i do listen to RH in fact HW is my most played song but i cant listen to all 22(?) songs.

Im my opinion we have too many songs that dont have the attention to detail that she always had

Also, She worked the whole 2014 on the album with dozens of people songwrites and producers , from pharrel to that natasha kills and spent most of the year trying to find that direction she wanted to go with producers that have no time to create something organic with her, the product she delivered sounds a mix of songs for me thats why we dont even have the credits.

Sone good songs, YES but also many fillers

That is not why we don't have the credits. All those writers and producers have to receive royalties so they have to have credits. They just haven't put them online because they've forgotten about it.

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Sone good songs, YES but also many fillers

Oh nooo. Fillers are songs that exist for no other reason but to fill up an album. Madonna hasn't had a filler track since Can't Stop or something, and I believe that every song she wrote for Rebel Heart came from a genuine place.

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I don't find there to be any filler on RH at all. Sonically, thematically...it's surprisingly cohesive. It's one of the first things that stood out to me on first listen...that she took all those demos and actually brought it all together into something that worked both conceptually and sonically...and boy did it. No joke, my jaw dropped on the first listen because I couldn't believe how unified the whole project sounded.

I agree with Kurt, you can tell there's certain emotions that form a vein that run through both the Rebel and the Heart side.

I don't think she gets the credit she deserves for working outside of her comfort zone...producing a massive body of work (that showed potential even from the earliest demos)...and forming that into one of her most cohesive albums of the last decade or more. And at 30+ years into a career, in popular music...it's really unprecedented when you look at the bigger picture. It's not a weakness...it's a sign of real strength...and a testament to her vision and skill as a legitimate songwriter and producer.

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That is not why we don't have the credits. All those writers and producers have to receive royalties so they have to have credits. They just haven't put them online because they've forgotten about it.

I know i just wanted to highlight one of the results of many people working in the album

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To anyone who are still stuck in the "creatively sophisticated Madonna and only one unknown producer with cohesive records and visuals" days, sorry to break your hearts, but I don't think that's ever going to happen again. I think her mindset has completely shifted when it comes to making music. Her writing process for Rebel Heart seemed pretty organic and she had no intention in making an "album" album from the get go.Hell, Guy advised her to work with Avicii and she was like "oh okay I'll try" and thank god the product was actually a LOT better than I had expected (I was honestly expecting another MDNA)

I do see why some fans get frustrated by her messiness (in terms of music, persona, visuals etc.) since 2008 and everything has been so all over the place. Even without the leaks Rebel Heart would not have been the "cohesive everything" era. The first reaction after I heard the demos was "everything sounds good but how is it gonna come together?" I think she's done her best in threading all the songs with a cohesive undertone and the final record has this frantic, gritty and nocturnal vibe that tights everything together. *waits for the demonsters to mock me again*

I've come to terms with her not being pristine and perfectionist anymore. I'm just happy that she's still making pop music and having fun.

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I think there are a few fans totally obsessed with Ray Of Light. Must be because it was such a great album and Madonna was once again the it girl of pop and it is also deemed as a template for electronic pop but I think it's more the press and the critics who are always using Ray Of Light as the ultimate Madonna album.

The critical and commercial success never had an impact on me... I really loved American Life at a time when everybody was kind of pissed off she put out an album like that. Madonna's known for ground breaking dance pop so there will always be disappointment when she doesn't deliver just that.

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Ray Of Light is a good album bar 1 or 2 mishaps ( see Rick Knowles thread ;) ) but I never understood why it is seen as her "pinnacle" ( despite the so called "comeback") when we have LIKE A PRAYER!!!!!!!!!!!!!, seriously if people want a " mature themed" comparable album LAP is it, bar none!

To this day LAP ( and Im Breathless) still remains fresh compared to her electronic albums because of the live instrumentation. All her electronic albums sound of a particular time and become outdated sonically, even ROL, even Rebel Heart will sound outdated in a few years ( but does not make it any less enjoyable, just won't stand the test of time like LAP )

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No Rebel Heart is the pinnacle... Of shitty remixes :chuckle:

Thought many of the MDNA single remixes were maligned by fans, but RH remixes probably tops it with complaints!

Hopefully, there will be a fourth single and some improvement in remixes.

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Guest Rachelle of London

I don't think there's ONE filler on RH. You can actually listen to it on shuffle without skipping a track.

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Guest Pud Whacker

To anyone who are still stuck in the "creatively sophisticated Madonna and only one unknown producer with cohesive records and visuals" days, sorry to break your hearts, but I don't think that's ever going to happen again. I think her mindset has completely shifted when it comes to making music. Her writing process for Rebel Heart seemed pretty organic and she had no intention in making an "album" album from the get go.Hell, Guy advised her to work with Avicii and she was like "oh okay I'll try" and thank god the product was actually a LOT better than I had expected (I was honestly expecting another MDNA)

I do see why some fans get frustrated by her messiness (in terms of music, persona, visuals etc.) since 2008 and everything has been so all over the place. Even without the leaks Rebel Heart would not have been the "cohesive everything" era. The first reaction after I heard the demos was "everything sounds good but how is it gonna come together?" I think she's done her best in threading all the songs with a cohesive undertone and the final record has this frantic, gritty and nocturnal vibe that tights everything together. *waits for the demonsters to mock me again*

I've come to terms with her not being pristine and perfectionist anymore. I'm just happy that she's still making pop music and having fun.

.

:thumbsup:

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Guest Pud Whacker

This is the future of music. We take it or we leave it:

JLVe1Ya.gif

That's always been madonna since day one. She's the one that wanted to add real instruments to her electronic music!!!
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Is anyone else over the word "cohesive" when describing music. Just my view, but music should not have to have themes, be cohesive or have a concept. When you boil it down, having to be cohesive it the opposite of being organic. Adore how Madonna has created the music she wanted with Rebel Heart and made plenty of it.

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Guest Rachelle of London

Is anyone else over the word "cohesive" when describing music. Just my view, but music should not have to have themes, be cohesive or have a concept. When you boil it down, having to be cohesive it the opposite of being organic. Adore how Madonna has created the music she wanted with Rebel Heart and made plenty of it.

soooo over it!

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Guest Pud Whacker

Is anyone else over the word "cohesive" when describing music. Just my view, but music should not have to have themes, be cohesive or have a concept. When you boil it down, having to be cohesive it the opposite of being organic. Adore how Madonna has created the music she wanted with Rebel Heart and made plenty of it.

I don't know if I'm "over it" or even have lost the expectation of it. There's something really special about Confessions on a Dance Floor and it's tour. I use that as an example of the last time when I think it was 'cohesive' from beginning to end. And it was perfect.

Even though the songs were varied, they all seemed related. I like that.

Just a preference of mine. :thumbsup:

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Is anyone else over the word "cohesive" when describing music. Just my view, but music should not have to have themes, be cohesive or have a concept. When you boil it down, having to be cohesive it the opposite of being organic. Adore how Madonna has created the music she wanted with Rebel Heart and made plenty of it.

Agreed! I get bored if an album has too many songs that are the same genre and feeling. I like albums that are diverse.

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Think part of the issue with RH and even MDNA was some fans expressing that the track listing seems almost random during some points for both albums? Some of M other albums seem to flow much better while listening.

Don't think it's a big deal. Everyone has their own musical taste.

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Is anyone else over the word "cohesive" when describing music. Just my view, but music should not have to have themes, be cohesive or have a concept. When you boil it down, having to be cohesive it the opposite of being organic. Adore how Madonna has created the music she wanted with Rebel Heart and made plenty of it.

For me, when I say 'cohesive'...I mean that there's something, even in the slightest way - whether it be conceptually, or visually, or sonically - that feels like all the work exists in the same little universe for that project...if that makes sense. LOL! Not that it means the work shouldn't be organic, or feels monotonous in any way.

Like for RH, there is actually a lot of diversity with that project...but the final production took those demos and not only made them phenomenal songs, but also applied enough little details here in there, along with the mixing, that made it feel like a unified project. Doesn't mean each song can't stand on its own...and they absolutely do.

As for themes, concepts, etc... I've always felt like Madonna has been, and still is, the master of that...while still feeling organic. I've never felt that she's working from a rigid idea from the get-go...in fact, very much the opposite. It's those concepts and themes that naturally stem from her initial work as is. (which is really part of her brilliance.)

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I don't know if I'm "over it" or even have lost the expectation of it. There's something really special about Confessions on a Dance Floor and it's tour. I use that as an example of the last time when I think it was 'cohesive' from beginning to end. And it was perfect.

Even though the songs were varied, they all seemed related. I like that.

Just a preference of mine. :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: All good Pud. You have a preference but I never see you "disliking" a record for not being cohesive etc or complaining about it. You love Rebel Heart and all of her music. It is just a word that is constantly used now by some people to put other albums down. - sort of like how irrelevant was so over-used a while back when anyone who was not the latest person to be famous was called irrelevant. They lose their original meaning. It used to drive me literally insane to read people calling Madonna irrelevant.

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