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Some serious truth tea from Ms Liz Smith


Apples388

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That's why I said "in part". She's not associating herself with Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift for her health.

She's trying to have it both ways: appealing to her existing fanbase why also aiming for the younger market. The same as with MDNA.

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That's why I said "in part". She's not associating herself with Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift for her health.

She's trying to have it both ways: appealing to her existing fanbase why also aiming for the younger market. The same as with MDNA.T

Taylor played guitar on Ghosttown at the iheart awards show, but how has she associated herself with Justin Beiber? He just happened to be on the Elllen show and at the Met Gala. It's not like she went out of her way to do a song with him. Why are you so bothered by her being around younger artists?

Overall though MDNA was far more dance oriented, fun and uptempo than Rebel Heart. Madonna has a youthful fun side. She always has, she's not going to be a typical mature artist like Annie Lennox. I don't get this focus on age and how she might be aiming for a "younger" market.. Who cares!

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That's why I said "in part". She's not associating herself with Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift for her health.

She's trying to have it both ways: appealing to her existing fanbase why also aiming for the younger market. The same as with MDNA.

You may qualify with "in part" but it sounds like you are suggesting that all she does these days is sit and ponder feverishly over what type of tracks will appeal to which demographic before creating her music and deciding on final inclusions. She has always been consistently diverse in her musical instinct and creative choices when it comes to putting out her albums. I don't agree that she has specifically aimed to appeal to either teens or adults, fanbase or non fanbase in any era. Take it or leave it, her music is for everybody.

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I don't understand the aiming for teens. I just have to get this out there quickly because I have to go to work. Rebel Heart appeals to me. Rebel would appeal to more teens if people didn't constantly tell them what they should and shouldn't like. Teens have different personalities as well as adults and it's an illusion created by people in the music industry and the media that they all like the same kind of music. I knew kids growing up that had rules about everything you were suppose to like but I never wanted to be a part of that. I listened to everything. Appreciated music with deep thoughts. I was open to learning things about the past. I looked up to people who I felt knew more than I did. There are teens who want to use their own minds. Their voices are just being drowned out right now.

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Taylor played guitar on Ghosttown at the iheart awards show, but how has she associated herself with Justin Beiber? He just happened to be on the Elllen show and at the Met Gala. It's not like she went out of her way to do a song with him. Why are you so bothered by her being around younger artists?

Overall though MDNA was far more dance oriented, fun and uptempo than Rebel Heart. Madonna has a youthful fun side. She always has, she's not going to be a typical mature artist like Annie Lennox. I don't get this focus on age and how she might be aiming for a "younger" market.. Who cares!

I would prefer at this point she would just do her own thing instead of associating herself with young, popular artists. It's not helping saleswise, anyway. I forgot to include the most recent example with the Drake incident, is anyone here glad that happened?

It's staring to annoy me. I didn't mind the Britney kiss, and the Taylor Swift performance. But usually it goes wrong: the Gaga skit, MATM video, every duet, it's just enough for me already.

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I would prefer at this point she would just do her own thing instead of associating herself with young, popular artists. It's not helping saleswise, anyway. I forgot to include the most recent example with the Drake incident, is anyone here glad that happened?

It's staring to annoy me. I didn't mind the Britney kiss, and the Taylor Swift performance. But usually it goes wrong: the Gaga skit, MATM video, every duet, it's just enough for me already.

None of the things you've mentioned have had a negative impact. In fact, as the years go on, I'm shocked at how many "younger" fans seemed to have their first introduction to Madonna because of her association with a younger artist. The Britney collab in particular seemed to gain her quite a few fans despite the fact MATM wasn't this monster hit. The point is they know who she is now so that may open their eyes to her overall body of work and future work. When all is said and done, how did the Gaga skit negatively impact her career? In fact, if anything, the whole "Gaga association" opened the eyes of some as to who the real deal is. Madonna knows what she's doing. She really started doing this at age 40 (coincidentally (?) enough) with Ricky Martin.....then it was wearing the Britney and Kylie shirts.....mentioning Spice Girls....hooking up with Missy.

I can remember doing the same thing when Madonna would mention certain artists. Honestly, I really started digging into the work of Blondie because of Madonnas mentions of Debbie Harry......same with Bowie. I knew who they were, but I didn't really pay attention until the "Madonna association".

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I would prefer at this point she would just do her own thing instead of associating herself with young, popular artists. It's not helping saleswise, anyway. I forgot to include the most recent example with the Drake incident, is anyone here glad that happened?

It's staring to annoy me. I didn't mind the Britney kiss, and the Taylor Swift performance. But usually it goes wrong: the Gaga skit, MATM video, every duet, it's just enough for me already.

She may associate herself with younger artists, but how does that stop her from "doing her own thing"? She still makes the music she wants to make, if anything the younger artists adapt to her not the other way around.

Also, a lot of the younger artists she works with like Britney, Nikki Minaj, even Taylor she seems to have some type of affection for them, almost motherly concern. It's not like she's working with someone she hates just because she's been told it will be good for her career. I think it's cute!

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Don't agree with you about Rebel Heart aiming for the teens. The lyrics for the majority of the songs are very poignant and there are a lot of ballads and mid-tempo songs on the album. There are also pure fun and raunchy songs which she also does so well and better than anyone. Plus Madonna has always had a mixture of different lyrics, song styles and messages. What I love about her really. She just follows her heart and what music she wants to make and goes for it. The mixture of Rebel and Heart - all done in various ways - make this record an absolute stand-out.

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Sing it sista!

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We could look at it this way: she released such amazing mature albums early on in her career with True Blue and LAP. And then later again, with Ray of Light.

So this new era is like the extension of her early career we never really had to experience.

?

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None of the things you've mentioned have had a negative impact. In fact, as the years go on, I'm shocked at how many "younger" fans seemed to have their first introduction to Madonna because of her association with a younger artist. The Britney collab in particular seemed to gain her quite a few fans despite the fact MATM wasn't this monster hit. The point is they know who she is now so that may open their eyes to her overall body of work and future work. When all is said and done, how did the Gaga skit negatively impact her career? In fact, if anything, the whole "Gaga association" opened the eyes of some as to who the real deal is. Madonna knows what she's doing. She really started doing this at age 40 (coincidentally (?) enough) with Ricky Martin.....then it was wearing the Britney and Kylie shirts.....mentioning Spice Girls....hooking up with Missy.

I can remember doing the same thing when Madonna would mention certain artists. Honestly, I really started digging into the work of Blondie because of Madonnas mentions of Debbie Harry......same with Bowie. I knew who they were, but I didn't really pay attention until the "Madonna association".

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

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I never said the era or even the whole album was geared towards the teenage market. Just some of the songs.

It's not necessarily a bad thing. Teens/young adults are the biggest buyers of music, so it makes good business sense -- if she can pull it off.

What I don't like is how I much I personally dislike her duets: MATM, 4 minutes, GMAYL, and now BIM. Four of my very least favorite songs in her catalogue. If these were all I knew of her, I would not have become a fan on the basis of these singles.

What I DO like is that the RH album sounds very modern and current: I could see Hold Tight, Inside Out, and several other songs fitting it on modern radio. I would some of these had been released instead of LFL and Ghosttown, to be honest.

She herself has said she is influenced by Rocco and Lola in the studio, so clearly she IS attempting to reach young adults.

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But the thing is, no matter what she releases, she still wouldn't be played on radio. If LFL and GT was released 10 years ago, it would be played ALOT! Today's radio is solely for teenagers sadly.

We have to give up our obsession over charts, sales are overall down, not just for M.

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Yes, and we've already have to see really good singles like Get Together, Give it to me, get ignored when at least the first single would hit.

I think she probably thought these songs would at least get played somewhere, it's still shocking how the whole world turned on her at once.

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The world hasn't turned on her, this is happening to a lot to other acts too especially older acts. Radio to me has drastically changed and only now cater to the young. Look at Billboard chart, older acts will suffer cause of these streaming rules.

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  • 2 months later...

just a minor mention but interesting read

http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/guest-diary/2015/liz-smith-whats-really-doin

Thursday, July 23, 2015
by Liz Smith

WE KEEP hearing that things are getting better for actresses, in terms of ageism, in particular. But don’t run that line past the forthright Oscar-winner Emma Thompson. “I still think it’s completely shitty, actually. And I think that for women, the question of how they are supposed to look is worse than it was even when I was young. So, no, I am not impressed at all.”

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“I still think it’s completely shitty, actually ..."

Well, Thompson has a point, certainly on the issue of looks. Nowadays, well before the all-seeing camera has begun to note any signs of maturity, fresh young women (and men, too) are having regular afternoon skin peels, preventative Botox and every non-invasive procedure possible, all in an effort to retain that youthful glow.


A lot of this over-maintenance probably has to do with the current high-definition cinematography that destroys every illusion, reveals every flaw. Not even flaws, simply things that the eye misses but the camera magnifies. (Freckles, facial fuzz, tiny laugh lines.) Who can blame actors for trying to look as good as they can, for as long as they can, in the face of such a pitiless lens?

And women are always going to be judged more harshly than their male counterparts. Leonardo DiCaprio looks like a doughy mess most of the time, but he is admired for his ability to party with an endless stream of gorgeous models. A doughy messy woman with a series of good-looking studs would be savaged. (Hell, Madonna who is in superb shape, is bashed simply because she likes her men young!)

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Leo, Madonna, and Marlene ....

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One thing for sure, the great director Josef von Sternberg, and his magnificent creation, Marlene Dietrich, could never happen today. The more filters, feathers, veils, smoke, soft-focus poured on Dietrich, the better she looked. She was not a Hi-Def goddess. Or a Technicolor girl, for that matter. Much of Dietrich’s mystery was lost in color. The majority of her films were black and white.

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Marlene in "Kismet" — one of her rare color films. Maybe a bit less mysterious, but still plenty hot!

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