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Herning, Denmark - 16 November 2015


Msig

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it would be blind to say it's all good and wonderful

I didn't say that, I said something completely different. I said postponing shows rather than outright cancelling them is not something that justifies people deducing the tour is not selling well. And I'm saying that in the current scenario U2 with their similarly built tour are not faring better than she is. They both have certainly saturated NA and Europe for years and years on end now.

She could have rescheduled those dates weeks and weeks ago had they not been selling adequately, again, she could have cancelled them alltogether if that were the reason for the postponement.

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Guest Rachelle of London

We all love her I think, that's not the point though, it's just that when you make a statement or even express an opinion you need to have arguments and facts to back it up. And isn't "not selling well" a synonym for flopping anyway? :lol: There's not that much difference. Why are U2 doing an arena tour as well if I may ask?

Did people even ever question the corporate BS of putting your album out "for free" (or should I say forcing it into millions of Itunes accounts) and then collecting your $100m cheque from Apple? Oh right Bono fell off a bike :rotfl:

Somehow some Madonna fans seem to have suddenly discovered that "Madonna is greedy". When we see dates actually being cancelled, that will be a cause for "concern" I guess. Can I just ask how many officially sold out shows U2 already have out of this tour? Because otherwise we're just talking in circles

It's NOT opinion. You can buy tickets for most shows. How many cities have they added on?

Come on!

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It's NOT opinion. You can buy tickets for most shows. How many cities have they added on?

Come on!

Same for U2

The tour is not to start for months

Does it mean they are flopping?

Don't follow this logic

Unless you're talking about Viagogo :lol:

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you ask why bring u2 in the discussion then you're the one doing it all the time....and without a point if i may say....have you seen their schedule? again....8 MSG show, 6 london and at least double shows in every city.....

madonna has 1 show in LA, 3 in NY (not even close to sell out)

do you need more?

as for the post-poning dates, people isn't saying it's being done because the tour is flopping....

people are outraged because some of them spent money to book flights and hotels and arranged time off work just for the opening show and all for nothing and then the suspect is high that all has been done to put those dates in january has a launch pad for a SA lucrative leg, has different cities are, not flopping, but for sure are not smashing has well....do you really believe that, 3 months in advance she suddenly realized she needed 1 more week of reharsals?

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its interesting seeing how everything went downhill after she signed with live nation, later with interscope, and when social media really started..its not about the music, because that's on par with what she's always made. it's the promo/label etc (or lack of their work?) i also think new girls like gaga dressing crazy and being controversial made her less special to some people, i don't know.. i think she's still an enigma and phenomenon but some feel of the "exclusivity" is gone I think.. mostly because of the internet. maybe that's what also works to the advantage of rock bands, U2, springsteen, etc? whenever they have a bad concert or whatever, they never get bad press over it or social media going crazy about it.

thats also why i think songs like "bitch I'm madonna" and the video are a blessing and a curse @ the same time..

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A key question here is what defines "well"? Not a single one of Madonna's previous tours could be described as having done "well" - each and every one has been a blockbuster in terms of sales. We're talking sellouts for almost every single show (with only one show per tour over the past 11 years not being listed as a sell out, and even then, they were extremely close to reaching that level). "Well" doesn't come anywhere near describing how these tours performed. "Phenomenally" well is closer....!

If this is what Madonna is supposed to achieve every single time she tours, then she's doomed to failure - end of story. No one can sustain those sorts of figures. Is "Rebel Heart" selling as well as previous tours have? No. That doesn't mean that she's not doing well this time, or that ticket sales aren't good or even great. As many others have pointed out, the biggest acts in the UK and the world are discounting tickets in order to get people through the doors. Rather than compare Madonna's current performance to her previous ones and declare that she's not doing well, compare her to the current performance of others who charge as much as she does for tickets (does anyone other than The Rolling Stones?!). Just because tickets are available for every show doesn't mean she's not doing well....

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do you really believe that, 3 months in advance she suddenly realized she needed 1 more week of reharsals?

I do, actually. I believe that they've been told that they're not going to be able to start the (extremely important) full dress rehearsals until a week after the scheduled date (for whatever reason) and, rather than risk the whole thing being a disaster because the show isn't ready (we all know how gruelling the rehearsal schedule is and there's no way Madonna would be even remotely happy with sacrificing a whole week of rehearsals with the full stage in place), she's made the decision to reschedule. My guess (and this is just a guess, of course!) is that some part of the production has been held up and in spite of their best efforts to resolve this, they've realised that there's no way everything's going to be ready. They've already been forced to release the album before it was ready to Madonna's satisfaction - they don't want the same thing happening with the show.

Just my thoughts...! :)

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A key question here is what defines "well"? Not a single one of Madonna's previous tours could be described as having done "well" - each and every one has been a blockbuster in terms of sales. We're talking sellouts for almost every single show (with only one show per tour over the past 11 years not being listed as a sell out, and even then, they were extremely close to reaching that level). "Well" doesn't come anywhere near describing how these tours performed. "Phenomenally" well is closer....!

If this is what Madonna is supposed to achieve every single time she tours, then she's doomed to failure - end of story. No one can sustain those sorts of figures. Is "Rebel Heart" selling as well as previous tours have? No. That doesn't mean that she's not doing well this time, or that ticket sales aren't good or even great. As many others have pointed out, the biggest acts in the UK and the world are discounting tickets in order to get people through the doors. Rather than compare Madonna's current performance to her previous ones and declare that she's not doing well, compare her to the current performance of others who charge as much as she does for tickets (does anyone other than The Rolling Stones?!). Just because tickets are available for every show doesn't mean she's not doing well....

Thank you for some common sense Carta :thumbsup: You wrote everything I meant before. Much better and more effectively. You must clearly be a "Madonna Apologist" because you have articulated your thoughts and provided facts and examples to support them :rotfl:

Some of the moderators of this forum still need to realise once and for all that being a moderator implies the exact contrary of name-calling and rudely shouting at people that think differently in every single thread and then constantly bringing them up in other threads as well for the sake of provocation and derision. But it's been going on for years now, and unfortunately I don't think it's suddenly going to change.

This is a place for discussing Madonna not a children playground where you can gratuitously insult other posters and high five one another for it. Use your Facebooks etc for that

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you ask why bring u2 in the discussion then you're the one doing it all the time....and without a point if i may say....have you seen their schedule? again....8 MSG show, 6 london and at least double shows in every city.....

madonna has 1 show in LA, 3 in NY (not even close to sell out)

do you need more?

as for the post-poning dates, people isn't saying it's being done because the tour is flopping....

No? :huh:

Maybe you haven't read the other threads because that's exactly what's been said about it

And as for people being outraged, whoever said they don't have a right to be?

That's two separate things

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The first London dates sold very slow because thousands of tickets were only available as special packages. Most of the stage-side and runway seats were priced at £300 instead of £175. The package being something like a tour programme and glass of champagne. People aren't prepared to pay that because they just want the seat for £175. If the special packages had never happened and the nosebleed seats had ALL been £40 the first date would have sold out quick. 2nd and 3rd nights would have been fine as well.

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The first London dates sold very slow because thousands of tickets were only available as special packages. Most of the stage-side and runway seats were priced at £300 instead of £175. The package being something like a tour programme and glass of champagne. People aren't prepared to pay that because they just want the seat for £175. If the special packages had never happened and the nosebleed seats had ALL been £40 the first date would have sold out quick. 2nd and 3rd nights would have been fine as well.

This is the case for all the UK shows. In fact, all seats from about the middle of every row up to the catwalk cannot be bought normally, you need a package. Two seats next to the catwalk will set you back £800. Can people really not see that this is a problem and is damaging ticket sales? Also yes, the nosebleed seats at the back of a row in the upper tier costing £80. The SAME amount of money for a standing floor ticket in continental Europe. Hence why she may well be playing 3 nights in Italy but cant even fill an 11k arena in the UK.

And XXL, Ai Papi or 12:51 isn't a moderator anymore AFAIK, and no other mod is displaying that behaviour you describe.

I'll defend Madge to the death among a group of haters, but if her own fans can't even discuss the managerial decisions that are causing problems for her career in important territories like the UK, then that's a problem in itself.

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Um, not only am I not a moderator, but I never called XXL a name in any recent threads.

Have I pointed out that a few of the arguments I've seen don't really hold water and that I'm sick of being called a non-fan (or worse, being told to leave the forum) becuz I don't believe this tour is doing as good of business as the last two? Yes, and btw, it's not the end of the world if the tour isn't doing that great, I'm sure they'll figure it out.

XXL, god bless you for your loyalty, but anytime anyone speaks up with a few points of criticism about the management of Madonna's career, you launch into a passive aggressive, arrogant few paragraphs filled with smileys and eye-rolls about how wrong we are (without really backing that up mind you). So if you feel like I'm not "nice" enough to you, look in the mirror. I don';t know if it's intentional, but it seems like the goal is to make us all feel stupid when we speak up about subjects like this. You do realize that we're allowed to have our own theories too?

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No? :huh:

Maybe you haven't read the other threads because that's exactly what's been said about it

And as for people being outraged, whoever said they don't have a right to be?

That's two separate things

i was talking about how M's team treat things...and how their behaviour affects sales...

i'm a little tired of people proclaiming how they're victim of other people behaviour and how this should be a place of discussing different opinion then the same people are the first to laugh at others and saying, for example that who doesn't think like them (i.e. madonna and her team never fail) doesn't use common sense or are stupid (and this is not the first time, maybe this is the reason why at a certain point i used the ignore button).

if you're happy, good for you. it's all well

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all they gotta do babies, is give away tickets in specials at Tidal. Problem solved, lol.

maybe she should do a stand-up comedy theatre tour next. and wait a few years to do a big Greatest Hits tour. Would it make some of you happy for her to come out and say "tickets sales are so piss poor that we are freaking out!"? lol

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They should get me working on their team. I would do it for free! These clueless decisions and missteps this era are becoming too frequent. A lot of these things could've been avoided.

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Guest Rachelle of London

i was talking about how M's team treat things...and how their behaviour affects sales...

i'm a little tired of people proclaiming how they're victim of other people behaviour and how this should be a place of discussing different opinion then the same people are the first to laugh at others and saying, for example that who doesn't think like them (i.e. madonna and her team never fail) doesn't use common sense or are stupid (and this is not the first time, maybe this is the reason why at a certain point i used the ignore button).

if you're happy, good for you. it's all well

Thank you :clap:

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Guest Rachelle of London

Same for U2

The tour is not to start for months

Does it mean they are flopping?

Don't follow this logic

Unless you're talking about Viagogo :lol:

Oh are U2 joining Madonna on Rebel Heart Tour?

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Guest Rachelle of London

Hector you need to work on Madonnas team. Even though some people think that everything is fine and dandy in the Madonna camp, it's crystal clear that management and organisation is lacking. Quite a shame but is so evident it's quite embarrassing on her behalf.

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Thank you for some common sense Carta :thumbsup: You wrote everything I meant before. Much better and more effectively. You must clearly be a "Madonna Apologist" because you have articulated your thoughts and provided facts and examples to support them :rotfl:

I've been accused of being a "Madonna Apologist" in the past and was nominated for that prestigious award in the Madonnanation Forum Awards back in 2007 (I think it was) because I dared to like the "Beat Goes On" and "Candy Shop" demos and supported Madonna's right to record whatever type of music she liked (shocking, I know ;) ).

Thanks for the support :thumbsup:

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well....you asked how are doing u2 with their tour...that's my point.... :lol:

I mentioned U2 simply because everyone on here who claimed that the postponement is "because Miami and the other cities were struggling with sales" kept saying "look at U2 they're doing it properly, they're all sold out". Hardly the case and now they share with her not only LN but a manager as well

As for U2 having more NY dates etc bear in mind that they've had a bigger time gap than she's had from the last time they were on the road. Just saying. Madonna has toured more frequently than they have during the past 10 years even if their 360 tour seemed to go on forever

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This is the case for all the UK shows. In fact, all seats from about the middle of every row up to the catwalk cannot be bought normally, you need a package. Two seats next to the catwalk will set you back £800. Can people really not see that this is a problem and is damaging ticket sales? Also yes, the nosebleed seats at the back of a row in the upper tier costing £80. The SAME amount of money for a standing floor ticket in continental Europe. Hence why she may well be playing 3 nights in Italy but cant even fill an 11k arena in the UK.

And XXL, Ai Papi or 12:51 isn't a moderator anymore AFAIK, and no other mod is displaying that behaviour you describe.

I'll defend Madge to the death among a group of haters, but if her own fans can't even discuss the managerial decisions that are causing problems for her career in important territories like the UK, then that's a problem in itself.

I didn't know that and it doesn't matter anyway, I am only generally speaking based on my personal experience with certain posters. He has displayed that attitude to me on many occasions on here. I'm not giving you all the examples of it because this is not the place for it and I don't care anymore.

Another poster very close to 1251 and CUBB (no it's not Suede) back in 2012 has once even sent me an apology via pm saying "sorry for all the times I have been so rude to you"

And I didn't say we can't have a conversation about Madonna's management poor choices or Madonna's "slips" if you will but it does get tiring after a while to hear the same talk about Guy Oseary's greed and Madonna's being out of touch etc when other singers/performers are not doing any better than she is in fact in terms of sales and interest are lagging far behind outside of the current fickle manipulable world of chart stats

I do express criticism of certain aspects of her career myself, especially her having instagram posts that read "how can my fans do these to me, my fans wouldn't do this to me" when she's suddenly only realising after 5 years that her Klein unphotoshopped out takes are all out there for anyone to see etc ....

Regarding this whole postponement thing I only meant to say it's odd to think that she'd be purposely THAT disrespectful to fans who have advanced cash for plane tickets and hotel reservations pushing back 5 dates because she'd be playing to half empty venues otherwise when there were 3 months left for the original tour kick off date anyway

Why can't people believe that maybe there were some logistical issues involved? And why would anyone expect her to have 10 London dates when she and acts like U2 have gone into over kill mode with these kind of highly priced concerts for so many years now, particularly Europe and North America where the economy has been hurting the most during the past 7 years

Again, if you guys read Carta's post he's raised some very good points in regards to this matter.

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I've been accused of being a "Madonna Apologist" in the past and was nominated for that prestigious award in the Madonnanation Forum Awards back in 2007 (I think it was) because I dared to like the "Beat Goes On" and "Candy Shop" demos and supported Madonna's right to record whatever type of music she liked (shocking, I know ;) ).

Thanks for the support :thumbsup:

Oh I didn't know you have been branded a Madonna Apologist yourself before :lol:

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This thread is not much about Denmark anymore..

It's a little strange that people on all sides gets so personal instead of discussing issues. If facts needs to be discussed then both backing them up and broadening out with looking at the bigger picture is necessary and more interesting than creating animosity amongst fans. And personal opinions and thoughts about what's going on that we don't know with the managing of Madonna should equally be able to be expressed without people starting to fight, shouldn't it?

One of my opnions (not a verifiable fact!) is that the tour seems rushed with regard to when the album was truly out. It was almost at the same time which took me by surprise. And thinking about it I do have doubts that Madonna and even her team would be so little business oriented as to risk putting a negative spin on her whole tour from the start and upsetting that many fans intentionally by pushing back the 5 first shows just to sell more, it sounds very counterintuitive so I'm more inclined to belive it's a production issue. Which again shows bad management and planning, and rushing the tour...

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I didn't know that and it doesn't matter anyway, I am only generally speaking based on my personal experience with certain posters. He has displayed that attitude to me on many occasions on here. I'm not giving you all the examples of it because this is not the place for it and I don't care anymore.

Another poster very close to 1251 and CUBB (no it's not Suede) back in 2012 has once even sent me an apology via pm saying "sorry for all the times I have been so rude to you"

XXL, I'm gonna make 1 last post about this and let's stay out of each other's way.

No one is close to me on here. What a strange thing to say. That's probably something you imagined to make this all seem more dramatic or juicy; fact is, certain people get along and certain people don't. So let's cut out that soap opera statement. I'm glad someone said sorry to you but stop trying to make this like a whole gang of people is against you. I have my own opinions and I post my own posts, CUBB hasn't posted here in years and probably doesn't even like Madonna anymore and I don't care. If you have beef with him, go find him and talk to HIM about that, don't bring me into it.

If you feel like I haven't been kind to you, the road goes both ways to be honest. We've been rude to each other. I didn't insult you or call you a name in ANY recent threads so if you're thinking of stuff from a long time ago, I don't see how that has any relevance now. I'm perfectly ready to be civil to you regardless.

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