Samo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I was too young at the time, but Ive been doing a lot of reading,about the SEX book and furor it caused this 22nd Anniversary week and a lot of people,claim the book was her "downfall" Once it that bad for her back then? She,still SEEMED to be EVERYWHERE and was still a multiplatinum,selling artist, not to mention the hit songs she was still having in the 90s And was Ray of Light regarded as her comeback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarleyQuinn Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 That is what I have heard as well. The Sex Book coupled with the David Letterman interview in 1994 was not well received by the public. She slowly started gaining favor with her ballads and Evita. Ray of Light made it come full circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMoody Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It was a definitive media and public backlash more than a downfall. She rebounded relatively well with the US #1 chart success of I'll Remember in 1994, followed by the multi-platinum success of Bedtime Stories (Take A Bow remains her longest running #1 single in US). She had an artistic "come back" with Evita and Ray of Light was most certainly the "return" to her throne on a critical, public, and commercial level. Madonna's missteps are relative to her mammoth success of the previous decade. Sex/Erotica was her first music/art-related project that critically and semi-commercially backfired. Despite a backlash, the Sex book was a complete sell-out and Erotica still sold millions of copies. Commercially she was experiencing a natural cooling of her early years phenomena, but it is looked back upon as a "downfall" due to the overzealous and seemingly constant negative media scrutinizing and criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonoka Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 More importantly (how many times have we discussed this 90's backlash ish already?), why do you put a comma after, almost, every, single, word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Not this old chestnut again. Seems like the topics of discussion just go round and round in here. There was a "backlash" thread just a coupla weeks ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSD Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 "If this is a career slump, then may it last forEVAH", etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt420 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 So when did the "slump" officially begin and end? I say the start is Sex release. It didn't feel like it was fully over until Evita release. In retrospect it seems silly to call it a slump considering in that time period she sold something like 20 million albums, had 6 U.S. top tens (including her longest running #1), a very profitable tour and media coverage galore. It's true though the media and publics attitude toward her had soured quite a bit. She was definitely the punching bag for a couple of years there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernatural Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The only negative I really remember as a fan was when a single like Bad Girl would peak at 36 or Erotica single and album missed the #1 spot- stuff like that was an indication that her pop career might be winding down. But she went right back to having hits. So end of that story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It was a definitive media and public backlash more than a downfall. She rebounded relatively well with the US #1 chart success of I'll Remember in 1994, followed by the multi-platinum success of Bedtime Stories (Take A Bow remains her longest running #1 single in US). She had an artistic "come back" with Evita and Ray of Light was most certainly the "return" to her throne on a critical, public, and commercial level. Madonna's missteps are relative to her mammoth success of the previous decade. Sex/Erotica was her first music/art-related project that critically and semi-commercially backfired. Despite a backlash, the Sex book was a complete sell-out and Erotica still sold millions of copies. Commercially she was experiencing a natural cooling of her early years phenomena, but it is looked back upon as a "downfall" due to the overzealous and seemingly constant negative media scrutinizing and criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I often say how impressed I am that she didn't totally lose her marbles around this time. She was publicly mauled. I mean, the woman was torn to shreds, called every name in the book, and STILL came out on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It was absolutely amazing! I've said this before, but the whole backlash should b dissected by scholars. Media wise it was intellectually so schizophrenic, for awhile it seemed as if she was the most hated woman on the planet. But at the same time she was everywhere from the tabloid press to art publications to psychology, news and business magazines. I don't think any pop star, male or female, has ever ticked so many boxes. Also bear in mind that (post '92) regardless of her image, there was a real disdain towards anything 80's related. Grunge and Gangsta rap were pop culturally seen as the complete anti thesis of the previous decade. Prince & Michael Jackson were over because they were essentially still Prince & Michael Jackson. In other words, pompous left overs. Whereas Madonna became this whole new animal popping up in the most unusual of places. It only heightened her legend. So in hindsight her 'downfall' in the 90's was the best thing that ever happened to her career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattress Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It was absolutely amazing! I've said this before, but the whole backlash should b dissected by scholars. Media wise it was intellectually so schizophrenic, for awhile it seemed as if she was the most hated woman on the planet. But at the same time she was everywhere from the tabloid press to art publications to psychology, news and business magazines. I don't think any pop star, male or female, has ever ticked so many boxes. Also bear in mind that (post '92) regardless of her image, there was a real disdain towards anything 80's related. Grunge and Gangsta rap were pop culturally seen as the complete anti thesis of the previous decade. Prince & Michael Jackson were over because they were essentially still Prince & Michael Jackson. In other words, pompous left overs. Whereas Madonna became this whole new animal popping up in the most unusual of places. It only heightened her legend. So in hindsight her 'downfall' in the 90's was the best thing that ever happened to her career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rachelle of London Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Acko preaching the gospel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuckeye Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 the backlash made her even more big, even more of an icon, it cemented the deal. her backlash is just as famous as anything she has done, lol. her fans, new & older, keep bringing it up. it shows just how much of a survivor madonna truly is and how much of a victim she is not no matter what has happened to her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acko Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Which brings me 2 my love 4 the Bedtime Stories era in particular. As ridiculous as it may sound, but this woman who was a mega star & sold so many records actually had a bit of cult status during this time, in certain circles she was seen as undeniably cool. With the parallel perception of her being over in the mainstream media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vocalism Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It was a definitive media and public backlash more than a downfall. She rebounded relatively well with the US #1 chart success of I'll Remember in 1994, followed by the multi-platinum success of Bedtime Stories (Take A Bow remains her longest running #1 single in US). She had an artistic "come back" with Evita and Ray of Light was most certainly the "return" to her throne on a critical, public, and commercial level. Madonna's missteps are relative to her mammoth success of the previous decade. Sex/Erotica was her first music/art-related project that critically and semi-commercially backfired. Despite a backlash, the Sex book was a complete sell-out and Erotica still sold millions of copies. Commercially she was experiencing a natural cooling of her early years phenomena, but it is looked back upon as a "downfall" due to the overzealous and seemingly constant negative media scrutinizing and criticism. This pretty much sums it up. I would add that it wasn't such a big deal that Erotica didn't hit #1 - TIC and IB both peaked at #2 as well and back then hitting #1 the first week out wasn't emphasized as much as it is today. "Bad Girl" flopped hard, so when "Rain" reached #14 it gave fans a little hope. And then of course "I'll Remember" proved she wasn't over. I would say '93 was the hardest. So when did the "slump" officially begin and end? I say the start is Sex release. It didn't feel like it was fully over until Evita release. In retrospect it seems silly to call it a slump considering in that time period she sold something like 20 million albums, had 6 U.S. top tens (including her longest running #1), a very profitable tour and media coverage galore. It's true though the media and publics attitude toward her had soured quite a bit. She was definitely the punching bag for a couple of years there. So, similar to what I said above, she bounced back slightly with "Rain" and then "I'll Remember" in early '94. So it was really only a year or so. It definitely felt "over" by the time TAB hit #1. I guess you could say it was totally over by Evita/ROL, but that's only because she had reinvented her image so completely. It was definitely a rebirth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madonnasuperfan01 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It was a definitive media and public backlash more than a downfall. She rebounded relatively well with the US #1 chart success of I'll Remember in 1994, followed by the multi-platinum success of Bedtime Stories (Take A Bow remains her longest running #1 single in US). She had an artistic "come back" with Evita and Ray of Light was most certainly the "return" to her throne on a critical, public, and commercial level. Madonna's missteps are relative to her mammoth success of the previous decade. Sex/Erotica was her first music/art-related project that critically and semi-commercially backfired. Despite a backlash, the Sex book was a complete sell-out and Erotica still sold millions of copies. Commercially she was experiencing a natural cooling of her early years phenomena, but it is looked back upon as a "downfall" due to the overzealous and seemingly constant negative media scrutinizing and criticism. I couldn't agree more with everything you said :clap: :clap: She wasn't a complete flop like so many people outside this forum seem to think, she just wasn't as successful as before and was under a HUGE backlash. But she was still successful overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloane Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 There was no downfall in the 90s, geesh. Backlash? Okay. Downfall? Hardly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It was absolutely amazing! I've said this before, but the whole backlash should b dissected by scholars. Media wise it was intellectually so schizophrenic, for awhile it seemed as if she was the most hated woman on the planet. But at the same time she was everywhere from the tabloid press to art publications to psychology, news and business magazines. I don't think any pop star, male or female, has ever ticked so many boxes. Also bear in mind that (post '92) regardless of her image, there was a real disdain towards anything 80's related. Grunge and Gangsta rap were pop culturally seen as the complete anti thesis of the previous decade. Prince & Michael Jackson were over because they were essentially still Prince & Michael Jackson. In other words, pompous left overs. Whereas Madonna became this whole new animal popping up in the most unusual of places. It only heightened her legend. So in hindsight her 'downfall' in the 90's was the best thing that ever happened to her career. Everything you've written is perfectly accurate The definitive post to describe that era Should be the introduction to Matthew Rettenmund's renewed Encyclopedia Madonnica for that era's chapters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jan Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 It was absolutely amazing! I've said this before, but the whole backlash should b dissected by scholars. Media wise it was intellectually so schizophrenic, for awhile it seemed as if she was the most hated woman on the planet. But at the same time she was everywhere from the tabloid press to art publications to psychology, news and business magazines. I don't think any pop star, male or female, has ever ticked so many boxes. Also bear in mind that (post '92) regardless of her image, there was a real disdain towards anything 80's related. Grunge and Gangsta rap were pop culturally seen as the complete anti thesis of the previous decade. Prince & Michael Jackson were over because they were essentially still Prince & Michael Jackson. In other words, pompous left overs. Whereas Madonna became this whole new animal popping up in the most unusual of places. It only heightened her legend. So in hindsight her 'downfall' in the 90's was the best thing that ever happened to her career. Acko, so spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick00 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm old & I remember the time period very clearly!! The media now portrays The Sex Book/Erotica & even Bedtime Stories as a significant decline, but this narrative is false. I attended The Girlie Show Tour & the Bedtime Stories premiere & I remember M music being played in nightclubs regularly during the early nineties. M was regularly on TV & in the magazines at the time as well. She was still everywhere! Like others have already mentioned here, M had several huge hits during the early nineties, including one of her biggest hits ever in the US for TAB. It felt like M redeemed herself with the conservative public after TSB/Erotic with the single & video for Rain & the huge hit IR. This topic does drive me a bit crazy, but I understand people are fascinated by this time period in M career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pasqual Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 we need new issue of it. it should be republished couse it is art. today is not even controversal but just beautiful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 It was bigger than some people thought, but less big as some others think. In terms of negative press it was MASSIVE. In terms of sales it was a slump, but ALL the artists from the 80s suffered it during the first half of the 90s. In terms of popularity there was no slump at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XXL Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Ironically Madonna was more popular at her "most unpopular" and more written about than some watered down American acts that for a grand total of 3 years max sold a few more copies and then completely vanished for the next 20 ........ As Acko said before the right word to describe this chapter of her life (post highs of LAP, immediately followed by Vogue/BAT/JML and then selling 30m copies of TIC shortly followed by the epic 1991 Oscars and the epic success of TUTBMP) is "The most DISSECTED and analysed star of the world" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp_QlX1Tb1k 22 years on, this alone speaks for itself http://www.bookfinder.com/books/bookfinder_report/BookFinder_Report_2013.mhtml While the "in-demand" stars of today are selling their fresh deliveries at the dollar store 5 days after their release Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datf Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 well in the short run, public reception towards the book and her was very negative, singles and album was not as well received, or charted or sold as well as previous albums. however, the book sold several millions at a much higher price than an album was. so commercially, together with the girlie show, that era was a huge commercial success. in the long run, the album was a lot more positively received, with some saying it was her best. the book is also viewed in better light and is the most sought after out of print book. she survived probably the biggest controversy and backlash in music history. so overall, the era, i would say, is still a huge success, both commercially and critically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjc Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 In the UK the slump may not have been as big as the UK. Small as the slump was it still happened. TUTBMP was the first single not available on an album at its time of release to not hit number 1 since Live To Tell in 1986. Papa Don't Preach, Who's That Girl, Like A Prayer and Vogue all easily hit number 1 (Justify My Love was released 1 week after IC), Releasing Erotica the album mid-week may not have helped its chart position but number 2 was still respectable. Airplay for the Erotica singles was still good even though the chart positions were down on previous singles. I'll Remember was a disappointing chart position for a non album single and the Bedtime Story era did not produce any significant sales or public memories in the UK. You'll See and STR did well in the UK but Oh Father and One More Chance were ignored by all but the fans. YMLM and the Evita soundtrack initially did not capture anyones attention but then the Evita film release along DCFMA rocketed her into superstar status again. The release of Ray Of Light saw a public eager to embrace Madonna again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TearsInHeaven Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Louise Veronica Ciccione ( it means "very fat" in Italian) I was still a kid at that time but i do remember she was considered a whore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 In retrospect, I think whether she was personally hurt by it or not, SHE removed herself from the top of the popularity mountain. It wasn't so long lived, less than a year afterward she was on constant MTV rotation with the 'rain' video and opened the MTV awards. She had the Girlie Show and had a highly rated HBO special. As stated in many interviews (particularly her candor during the Jonathan Ross interview for Sex/Erotica and even more so with Juliette Honen in 1993) it's as if she knew the ball would drop eventually and it's better to remove yourself from the top than to be knocked off. The public tide turned when she got pregnant and gave birth to Lola, hoping that she would finally calm down and become a Lady. Which worked for a while, but a leopard never really changes it spots, right? Either way the period between 1992-1996, for me remains her most artistically free and "fuck it, I'll do what I want" and some of my very favorite moments of her career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vocalism Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 ^ I don't know. I see/remember it differently. I definitely don't recall her saying she wanted to remove herself from the top - and I've watched both of those interviews recently. I also don't see 94 - 96 as artistically free and "fuck it." She was in major damage control after Erotica. Bedtime Stories, regardless of how honest and amazing that album is, was a conscious step away from her more in-your-face image. And STR was an attempt to ride the wave of AC ballads that were popular at the time. She worked with David Foster for chrissake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I also don't see 94 - 96 as artistically free and "fuck it." ...... And STR was an attempt to ride the wave of AC ballads that were popular at the time. Human Nature Bedtime Story Letterman Interview Dennis Rodman Details Interview Tupac Esquire Photoshoot.... ...the list goes on. '92 seems almost TAME in comparison. and...STR was a compilation/hits contract stipulation/Evita warm-up, not an AC jumping bandwagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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