Is M's next single a "surefire" Top 10 hit?

[vocalism]

As _Gark pointed out, Madonna's stamp is all over TUTR. The chorus is pretty much all that remained of the original lyrics. Martin said himself that Madonna took what he played her and "turned it into a Madonna song", which impressed him.

"Papa Don't Preach" - she got an "additional lyrics" credit when the song was initially released (I can outline exactly what she changed, if anyone wants me to), but this seems to have been limited to just her own recordings of the song, as she doesn't receive credit anywhere else for them. It's not as though she's listed as a fully fledged co-writer.

With JML, she also received an "additional lyrics" credit, for which she received a 10% share of the royalties.

OYH - the demo is out there and she earned her 33% share with the significant changes she made to the lyrics, particularly the second verse.

Would people be happier if they knew the exact share Madonna received for each song her name is attached to, or would they then quibble over whether she deserved 10% or 31.29%? If she alters a song in any way, then she should get credit for it. It's not as though she's taking someone else's song and then claiming that she wrote it by herself (there are some who still claim that they don't believe that Madonna wrote songs like "Lucky Star" herself....!).

I wasn't suggesting that she didn't deserve credit, but simply saying that she has always taken existing songs and tweaked them, to varying degrees. I'm not making a judgment about whether that's good or bad, or whether she takes too much credit or not. In some instances, her contributions were minimal, and in others she's made significant changes to lyrics/melodies.

I do, however, want the songs to be good. And if you're going to "buy" a song, then it better be fucking good - or at least something you couldn't write yourself in between gym workouts. A song like GGW doesn't pass the smell test.

[Jazzy Jan]

I wasn't suggesting that she didn't deserve credit, but simply saying that she has always taken existing songs and tweaked them, to varying degrees. I'm not making a judgment about whether that's good or bad, or whether she takes too much credit or not. In some instances, her contributions were minimal, and in others she's made significant changes to lyrics/melodies.

I do, however, want the songs to be good. And if you're going to "buy" a song, then it better be fucking good - or at least something you couldn't write yourself in between gym workouts. A song like GGW doesn't pass the smell test.

She hasn't always just taken existing songs as she has written a few by herself. Lucky star and Burning up for example.

[Kurt420]

Fair. But I spent 3 hours going through Madonna interviews trying to find that one phrase she let out. It may have even been a radio interview. I remember she said it, but Im tired and going to bed. In all fairness, there are few fans here who act entitled or something. I don't care, and never have, what judgment people have of me. Peace out!

I still find it hard to believe, no offense to you, but unless it was a comment said in jest/semi-sarcastically (ie: her "gotta make an album to pay the rent" comment some took and ran with or the "we have a black Muslim in the White House" comment people flipped over) then it just doesn't sounds like anything she would ever say. Stranger things have happened though, so who knows. I will say this though, in reference to my quotes above that she made, Madonna is very VERY dry sometimes to the point people don't realize that she's being sarcastic or just plain silly with some things she said. The two quotes I cited above are perfect examples of that. I was at the MDNA show she made the "black Muslim" comment and maybe because I was there and heard what she said in its full context, I fully "got" what she was saying and even looked at my friend and laughed when she said it. I was absolutely shocked when I saw the outrage it caused amongst some in the media but even here, some fans were saying she sounds uninformed and she should just shut up.......I just thought what a way to miss the point.....lol.

[Glindathegood]

I don't recall Madonna saying anything like you just select songs and put your vocals on them even in jest. I have listened to or read most of her interviews. In recent years, she hasn't done a ton of interviews so it's not so hard to keep up. If she had said something like that, I think I would remember it. I"m not saying it's definitely not true, but I don't remember anything even remotely similiar to that.

[vocalism]

^ Me either. I know fans have speculated/claimed that's what she did with several songs from MDNA, but I never heard her say that.

She hasn't always just taken existing songs as she has written a few by herself. Lucky star and Burning up for example.

Duh.

[Kurt420]

The only thing I can think of is when an "insider" said back when she was making the album that she was approaching it differently by listening to ready made demos created for her vs starting with her own lyrics and kind of organically creating the song based on that. Fans took that and ran with it and it became she's soulless, no input in the music etc.If that is what is being referenced by katy.... then that definitely was not a Madonna quote. Funnily enough, it's not far removed from what she's always done when she is creating an album.

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that fans never viewed HC as a "flop" and that is completely inaccurate. I argued that point to the high heavens many many many times back in '08-'09. The fact that it was one of the top 10 selling albums worldwide in 2008 and that 4M was one of the biggest hits of her career was refuted with arguments like......well 4M is just because of the Tims not Madonna or "well HC should've sold more because of the people involved." The point I'm driving home here is that enough is never enough (yes there were even people in COADF era who felt it underperformed because of its sales in US compared to rest of the world and the fact that none of the singles were massive successes in US either). It's only after there has been some time after the passing of an era that people look back at it with clarity and aren't distracted with the fact that she's not selling as much as whoever the hot things are at the time. It's far fetched to say that HC is universally loved amongst her fans at this point, but many have seemed to come around to it without all the distractions and influence of fan and media opinion.

I stand by my earlier comment that opinions are swayed when something is viewed as "successful"......in some ways it's unavoidable. Think about it, the more you hear something in day to day life when you are with friends etc having fun, the more personal memories you have attached to it. I'm sure all of us have disliked a song only to hear it one day in the right place, right setting with right people and suddenly you view it in a different light.

[Larkspur]

I stand by my earlier comment that opinions are swayed when something is viewed as "successful"......in some ways it's unavoidable. Think about it, the more you hear something in day to day life when you are with friends etc having fun, the more personal memories you have attached to it. I'm sure all of us have disliked a song only to hear it one day in the right place, right setting with right people and suddenly you view it in a different light.

Not with me. I decide on my own what I like and dislike. Being easily swayed is weak in my opinion.

[Carta]

So what if M did not write the song? It's possible that she saw the lyrics and felt it was so like her, that she chose to record it. Sometimes people are overrating writing a song. I mean, I have my favorite songs that are close to my heart and I can relate to a lot. Does that totally invalidate my love for it just because I didn't like it?

Not at all! You've missed the point. Some are claiming that Madonna's heart and soul wasn't in MDNA because she didn't write the tracks/apparently claimed that all she did was sing the vocals, when her involvement was far greater than this. It's an insult to Madonna and her creative input to claim that she didn't write something when she actually did.

I hope this clears things up.

[Katypatra]

Yeah but I remember hearing her say something like music is easier to put out now days, pick out what's popular and go with it. Does it not ring a bell to anyone? Why can't I find that damn interview? I didn't dream this up

[Katypatra]

By the way, I love how MDNA sounds for the most part. I just wish the lyrics were better. Donno about you guys, but I usually prefer songs that relate to me in some way, or have a message. Masterpiece has amazing lyrics but the production is painful...

I want songs like "Drowned World", "Swim", "Power of Goodbye", "Frozen", "To Have And Not To Hold", "I Deserve It", "Nobody's Perfect", "Paradise", "American Life", "I'm So Stupid", "Love Profusion", "Nobody Knows Me", "Nothing Fails", "Intervention", "Easy Ride", "Get Together", "Forbidden Love", "Jump", "How High", "Isaac", "Like It Or Not", "Give It To Me", "Miles Away", "Across The Sky", "Broken"......

That's a lot of songs lol but yeah that's the kind of Madonna fan I am. And with the last two albums there was almost nothing for me... and Im feeling sad about that lol

Can't stand fans who accused Madonna of being too preachy, too Kabbalah, too deep... I want that kind of Madonna back!! The goddess that I know she can be...

All this fluff is fun. And I sing along to GGW and all, but it's not the Madonna I fell in love with. I do expect her to carry a message in her songs.

So with all this fired up attitude to rebel that she claims to have right now, I do hope her new album kicks ass with amazing songs full of great lyrics and melodies.

P.s. anybody with me on this? Am I alone with this type of taste in her music?

Edited April 17, 2014 by Katypatra

[Katypatra]

Not at all! You've missed the point. Some are claiming that Madonna's heart and soul wasn't in MDNA because she didn't write the tracks/apparently claimed that all she did was sing the vocals, when her involvement was far greater than this. It's an insult to Madonna and her creative input to claim that she didn't write something when she actually did.

I hope this clears things up.

I never said she didn't write the lyrics. Selecting tracks, means picking whatever sounds good to her and making it her own. It was something that she mentioned somewhere that all she had to do was make music that sounded like what's popular.

[Carta]

I never said she didn't write the lyrics. Selecting tracks, means picking whatever sounds good to her and making it her own. It was something that she mentioned somewhere that all she had to do was make music that sounded like what's popular.

You said: "She said that all she did was selected songs and put her vocals unto them." (copied straight from your original post).

So what you really meant was, "all she did was select songs, write the lyrics and record her vocals".....?? If you'd said that in the first place, no one would have had any issue with your comment, since Madonna has worked this way many times (although usually writing/shaping the melody as well). What you said implied (very strongly) that all she did was record her vocals on a pre-existing song. The number of responses your comment generated suggests that I wasn't the only person who interpreted it this way.

I'm sorry for the confusion and misunderstanding!

[Katypatra]

Nah it's ok. I wanted to share something I heard Madonna herself say, but did not have anything to back it up with, worded it wrong and created a mess. I'm the one who should apologize for the confusion. But please, if any of you come across an interview where she talks about making music that's popular, simply selecting tracks she likes, putting her vocals unto them, anything along these lines, let me know. Thanx and sorry again.

[Carta]

All good!

[Larkspur]

Nah it's ok. I wanted to share something I heard Madonna herself say, but did not have anything to back it up with, worded it wrong and created a mess. I'm the one who should apologize for the confusion. But please, if any of you come across an interview where she talks about making music that's popular, simply selecting tracks she likes, putting her vocals unto them, anything along these lines, let me know. Thanx and sorry again.

I have a feeling that interview would prove to be too difficult to find.

But her fired up attitude to rebel that she "claims" to have has pretty much been on display for fans her whole career. It can be found in almost every interview she has ever given.

[5iVe Elements]

Not at all! You've missed the point. Some are claiming that Madonna's heart and soul wasn't in MDNA because she didn't write the tracks/apparently claimed that all she did was sing the vocals, when her involvement was far greater than this. It's an insult to Madonna and her creative input to claim that she didn't write something when she actually did.

I hope this clears things up.

oh hi!

I never believed that "she just picked songs and recorded her vocals" anyway. No matter how less or great her contribution was to MDNA, I am not diminishing or claiming that album was so NOT her at all. In fact, I can see her stamp in most of the tracks, dancewise (GGW, TUTR, IA) and the ballads (M, LS, FF).

[MPowered]

I still don't get why people prefer songs like GMAYL, Superstar (her worst song including all of her outtakes) and that repetitive Don't Stop rip-off of less quality called TUTR over Girl Gone Wild, which I agree is a little bit crowtastic but still more catchy hit-worthy than any of the three other tracks which all, more or less ended up us singles from MDNA. I still don't get what her management thought they were doing when chosing the singles. Where they smoking pot? She has an album with tracks like Gang Bang, I'm Addicted, Beautiful Killer and Love Spent out as well as major US-exposure due to the Superbowl and they come up with these bullshit choices of singles. The fact that Beautiful Killer remained a bonus track and that Love Spent almost got replaced by B-Day Song is showing what kind of album they were initially going for...

Now GGW, believe it or not, could've been huge if she actually went on a promo tour or performed it on several ocassions, rather than just starting to rehearse for the tour right away. I'm not a big fan of MDNAT, actually. I think it's great visually but it has such an underwhelming setlist.

[Plaything]

I don't know what you're talking about. I'm sure most people here do NOT prefer GMAYL, Supercrap and TUTR over Girl Gone Wild. It's just her vocals and overall production that bothers some of us but at the same time it's clearly superior and catchier than the other mentioned tracks. Plus, both video and live performance were amazing!

[loomer]

The Human Nature-style vocals for GGW are everything.

[iasonas]

Just release a good 1st single and it will be at least a top10 hit in most markets.

When GMAYL dropped everyone was like "WTF?". Literally everyone.

I wonder where Guy Oseary saw the good reaction when the demo leaked.

[5iVe Elements]

She drank the Tanqueray that's why her vocals were like that in GGW. I love it!

[Phineaspoe]

Just release a good 1st single and it will be at least a top10 hit in most markets.

When GMAYL dropped everyone was like "WTF?". Literally everyone.

I wonder where Guy Oseary saw the good reaction when the demo leaked.

Here, upon the demo leaking.

[tasteinmen]

damn people are so negative..

and can people stop pretending that the US is the world? look at hung up!

I only found out last year about how lackluster Confessions was in the US, I was really confused because it was huge in the UK and Sorry was huge everywhere I went in Europe in 2006, I couldn't imagine it being a flop because there was so much love for it in Europe especially after AL.

[vocalism]

^ COADF did quite well in the U.S. even though the singles struggled. It sold much more than her previous album, HU went Top 10, the video was #1 on TRL for weeks, and the album was nominated for a Grammy.

[Jumpb4uthink]

And won the Grammy

[Katypatra]

It won the grammy? Awesome. But Madonna was still banned by Clear Channel during COTDF. So her singles didn't play on major radio stations in US up until MDNA.

[Larkspur]

^ A not The

[karbatal]

By the way, I love how MDNA sounds for the most part. I just wish the lyrics were better. Donno about you guys, but I usually prefer songs that relate to me in some way, or have a message. Masterpiece has amazing lyrics but the production is painful...

I want songs like "Drowned World", "Swim", "Power of Goodbye", "Frozen", "To Have And Not To Hold", "I Deserve It", "Nobody's Perfect", "Paradise", "American Life", "I'm So Stupid", "Love Profusion", "Nobody Knows Me", "Nothing Fails", "Intervention", "Easy Ride", "Get Together", "Forbidden Love", "Jump", "How High", "Isaac", "Like It Or Not", "Give It To Me", "Miles Away", "Across The Sky", "Broken"......

That's a lot of songs lol but yeah that's the kind of Madonna fan I am. And with the last two albums there was almost nothing for me... and Im feeling sad about that lol

Can't stand fans who accused Madonna of being too preachy, too Kabbalah, too deep... I want that kind of Madonna back!! The goddess that I know she can be...

All this fluff is fun. And I sing along to GGW and all, but it's not the Madonna I fell in love with. I do expect her to carry a message in her songs.

So with all this fired up attitude to rebel that she claims to have right now, I do hope her new album kicks ass with amazing songs full of great lyrics and melodies.

P.s. anybody with me on this? Am I alone with this type of taste in her music?

Sorry babe, but it seems that you are stuck in a certain Madonna era. Maybe you should understand that Madonna has been in CONSTANT evolution since year one?

[Kurt420]

She goes in cycles. The quicker people realize this and stop putting her in their little "box" they want her to be in, then maybe they can just enjoy the music (or not) and not worry that it doesn't sound like "this or that". The Madonna that you "fall in love with" will not be the same within five years. That's just how she rolls. That's never changed. She's not going to go back to being ROL Madonna because she's done that.....it's over, nor is she going to go back to "boy toy" Madonna (like some of the wannabes wanted during True Blue).

On a side note, I can't believe it's being suggested madonna needs to step it up because of Miley and katy.....I mean truly, I'm waiting on them to catch up to Gang Bang, I'm Addicted, Falling Free, I'm A Sinner, Beautiful Killer etc.....and those are only the songs from her "bad" album.

[Music]

Madonna is at the same time the girl who sings GGW and the woman who can sing Falling Free.

It's her artistic freedom to be all that...Some people are lost with that but I think it's great, you never know what's going on.

She will have time to release an album that will be entirely conventional, without challenging what people think of what a woman in her 50's must be.She will have time to do so whenever she wants it.

I don't see the comparison with Prism and the fact that it is full of singles. I think M's albums are full of potential singles too, they're just not exploited the way it used to be. Even in MDNA, many songs could have been singles and hits, but Madonna isn't 30 and radio won't support her in the same way than before.

She will keep on doing exactly what she wants though. She's brave and fierce, and she can be vulnerable too. Why complain ?

Of course we don't have (and we can't) like absolutely everything, but she keeps on entertaining us the way no other artist with this longevity had ever done. Never forget that !