Jump to content

Madonna Borrowed Her Opening For CT??


Guest Topaz Scorpio

Recommended Posts

Guest Topaz Scorpio
Topaz, do you seriously believe that most fans aren't aware that Madonna pays homage/appropriates things from other acts? For years, she's talked about how she's inspired by art, other artists, etc. etc. I think you're looking at a very FEW select number of fans, and bringing something like this up as a means of "Here, I'm gonna show you."

The problem with some other "divas" is that they flat out REFUSE to acknowledge the Madonna influence- Janet Jackson comes specifically to mind. I can't imagine anyone having a problem when Kylie Minogue does it, though, since she's such a self-admitted Madge fan.

My whole point was the absolute ridiculousness that some people on this board go to when some other artist does something similar to something Madonna did before. Just a few recent examples...

*Mariah uses a disco ball in some awards show performance

*Kylie's blue Showgirl costume is similar to an outfit Madonna wore years ago in a photo shoot

*Christina does a retro style

In all these cases those artists were ripped to shreds for supposedly "ripping off" Madonna and being unoriginal, and yet when Madonna does it, she is "reinventing", being "artistic", or "making it her own". There are many things that Madonna has clearly been upfront about being inspired by; the whole Saturday Night Fever thing, the Dancing Queen cape, the Marilyn look in Material Girl, and on and on. And that's fine. It was intentional and she talks about it. It's just when there are other things that happen like the Hollywood-Bourdain lawsuit, the American Life video having strong similarities to "The War Song" video by Culture Club, or this disco globe opening like a flower exactly like the one in CT (Just the simple use of a disco ball would not have caused me to post). When these things come up, certain people always give Madonna excuses or have no problem with her copying. And when someone happens to mention being uncomfortable with it, it's like they have run Mother Teresa down with a car or some other abominable sin.

It's just a double standard around Madonna forums that has become tiresome.

HG, I will thank you though for at least attempting discussion on the issue and not resorting to infantile picture posting or insults.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you find those comparisons so ridiculous then why stoop to the same level by doing something equally annoying?

Oh and BRAVO for pretending to take the high road by casting off my picture joke as infantile and immature. You do the same kind of thing all the time. Get a grip - and a sense of humor for chrissakes. You also bash other artists too - take Mariah Carey as a ringing example. And yet you freak out when someone says one negative thing about Kylie or when someone does the stupid 'copying' shtick. Sorry not everyone is as informed or as mature as you. Learn to deal with it and not start STUPID threads that make you look like an uptight and whiney asshole.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Topaz Scorpio
If you find those comparisons so ridiculous then why stoop to the same level by doing something equally annoying?

Oh and BRAVO for pretending to take the high road by casting off my picture joke as infantile and immature. You do the same kind of thing all the time. Get a grip - and a sense of humor for chrissakes. You also bash other artists too - take Mariah Carey as a ringing example. And yet you freak out when someone says one negative thing about Kylie or when someone does the stupid 'copying' shtick. Sorry not everyone is as informed or as mature as you. Learn to deal with it and not start STUPID threads that make you look like an uptight and whiney asshole.

Oh stifle it you bitchy brat. You prove my point by being ignorant. Just because my post doesn't agree with your high-and-mighty opinion and may offer criticism towards Madonna then it's "annoying". Or the fact that I call you on your pettiness then I am in the wrong. Okayyyyy... :rolleyes:

And when have I posted some picture at something you've posted in order to be an antagonistic cunt like you're being?

I always find it hillarious that you tell people to lighten up or get a sense of humor until it comes to some viewpoint you support. Then you must post endless page long diatribes to try overwhelm any opposing opinion. You generally win on that since most people have likely fallen asleep and lost interest in the debate altogether by the time they get to the end of one of them.

And yes, I have participated in my share of Mariah attacks, but as you can see here I also will criticize Madonna if I question something that she's done. I don't blindly fall at the feet of Lady M and accept things she does and then turn around and insult other artists for doing the same thing. I'm an equal opportunity critic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys, don't get into a lather over such nonsense. :)

I think Topaz has shown that he clearly has some love for Kylie, which is fine- I do, too. :) Mimi's another story- he clearly isn't fond of her, though I like her to some degree (as I've shown) but am still critical.

I will admit that there are some posters who get into unnecessary hissyfits and blindly fall at the feet of La M (they're usually more newbie, though, than the veteran posters). While I certainly strongly admire M and believe that she is incomparable to most other acts, I like to think that my vision's pretty clear, and I never resort to insulting or infantile behavior. If I ever do, please let me know! :D

I will say, though, that there have been a few posters over the years who- unnecessarily and unprovoked on my part- took it upon themselves to throw insults or infantile behavior my way. But, like M reiterates, if at the end of the day, you can forgive someone and wish them well... :p

Back to topic, though- the problem more is with those blind-worshipper fans then M herself. She doesn't need to speak about every specific homage/appropriation. See, something like "Hollywood," I have no feelings on really, anyhow, since the video was utterly forgettable and disposable to begin with. If she was gonna crib something, she could have done a better job!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Topaz Scorpio
Back to topic, though- the problem more is with those blind-worshipper fans then M herself. She doesn't need to speak about every specific homage/appropriation. See, something like "Hollywood," I have no feelings on really, anyhow, since the video was utterfly forgettable and disposable to begin with. If she was gonna crib something, she could have done a better job!

True. And again, I don't hate Madonna for this it's just a feeling of disappointment I get and it smacks of laziness when I know she can be so much more creative as she has proven it countless times. The disco ball thing I was just surprised at because it's such a simple thing for her to have come up with a different way to display it. No, it's not 100% the same, but the way it opens up like a flower like the one in the Pink Floyd concert is just too eerily similar. I mean, just look at the disco ball at the European VMAs. At least that seemed a bit more original.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dude even with the similar disco ball the opening segment(Future Lovers) is flawless and original shit.

She's always taken stuff and made it her own throughout her career. This show when seen on DVD if it ever gets released will be fantastc as i've been watching some clips online and after seeing it live i realized i missed sooooo many things even though i was so close.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh stifle it you bitchy brat. You prove my point by being ignorant. Just because my post doesn't agree with your high-and-mighty opinion and may offer criticism towards Madonna then it's "annoying". Or the fact that I call you on your pettiness then I am in the wrong. Okayyyyy...

And when have I posted some picture at something you've posted in order to be an antagonistic cunt like you're being?

I always find it hillarious that you tell people to lighten up or get a sense of humor until it comes to some viewpoint you support. Then you must post endless page long diatribes to try overwhelm any opposing opinion. You generally win on that since most people have likely fallen asleep and lost interest in the debate altogether by the time they get to the end of one of them.

And yes, I have participated in my share of Mariah attacks, but as you can see here I also will criticize Madonna if I question something that she's done. I don't blindly fall at the feet of Lady M and accept things she does and then turn around and insult other artists for doing the same thing. I'm an equal opportunity critic.

Your opinion of the disco ball was hardly the reason I decided to go off on you in the first place. Yes I thought it was baloney but I was prepared to just give my 2 cents then leave it be. Then after you made that silly whine-fest of a post about the 'milestone' and the Kylie crap, I posted that picture as a playful way to say "it's not worth it." What made me come back was your constant need to be such a vengeful grump when it comes to Madonna and her supposed 'rivals.' It's DUMB. Your whole basis for posting this thread was to hit back at the Kylie wars - you said so yourself. I mean are you serious? RIDICULOUS.

In addition, it only took that picture (at the time it was just a mere wisecrack) for you to come lash out at me and declare yourself so 'above' posts like that and then go OUT OF YOUR WAY to try and make me look like the immature one. Petty indeed. You shoot smartass jokes like that all the time in response to people's posts. You also say really RUDE things to people too. And no don't ask me to go hunt down an example for you because I could care less. All I know is that this is all extremely hypocritical and if people's stupid posts about Madonna and Kylie bother you enough for you to make this vindictive and RETARDED thread about a disco ball, then I'm scared of you.

And yes, I mean it when I say get a sense of humor. You interpreted a Debbie Downer picture as a full fledged insult.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see Topaz's point about her borrowing obvious influences (this era has seen a lot of that, to be frank), but her use of the disco ball is in effect so utterly perfect for the opening that I really can't complain. Once again she's making something her own. Plus it's the most ambitious opening I've seen of her live (the last two tours she either came from the back behind fog or ascended from underneath the stage, which now seem like rather bland first appearances in comparison to that ball opening like a Lotus flower and her stepping out of it).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ugh so annyoing when people are so overcritical of Madonna and then step up to defend lesser artists just to be 'objective'. Lazy opening? What the fuck are you on? You made a thread and dissed every single thing about this show when it's obviously the best thing she's done in years (if not ever). How bout you to Kylies forum and give us all a break.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guys easy! :angel:

This is just a forum and you take things out of control sometimes, after all is just a show there are more important and relevant things you could be arguing about, and everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, thats why we are here in the first place! It would be boring if everyone agreed and worshipped everything Madonna does all the time! And yes some posters always think that Madonna is this goddes deity who comes up with brilliant and original ideas all the time, yeah right!

Topaz has a valid point of being dissapointed by the isco ball, even I was when I saw PF's brilliant NUMB performance, but looking back at the whole FL performance with the horse dance, equestrian S&M, Madonna did made it her own! She's ripped off the disco ball and how it opened but she only used that for the entrance, after that she went above & beyond and now is a classic performance! It even made me like a song I usually did not care too much in the first place, but now when I listen to FL that classic performance comes to mind and I love the song!

And Topaz, the Debbie Downer pic or whatever she is called is funny, I am sure that you have a sense of humour right?

Now guys relax and dont take this seriously! Its a Madge forum after all and is all about having fun, right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Topaz, do you seriously believe that most fans aren't aware that Madonna pays homage/appropriates things from other acts? For years, she's talked about how she's inspired by art, other artists, etc. etc.

Madonna: We're all plagiarising!

Posted: 11 July 2006 - From contactmusic.com

Pop icon Madonna has no qualms about stealing ideas from other artists because she insists it's an acceptable part of the creative process. Jessica Simpson and Paris Hilton have both been criticised recently for releasing songs that are reminiscent of Madonna's early hits, but she claims it's perfectly normal.

Madonna explains, '(Inspiration) is about paying attention. For instance, I saw David LaChapelles movie Rize, and it has incredible dancers in it. I found out who the dancers were and put them in my next video. I have an insatiable hunger and curiosity to find out about new things. Inevitably those things find their way into my work. I think that's what we do as artists and creative people - we're all plagiarising!'

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see Topaz's point about her borrowing obvious influences (this era has seen a lot of that, to be frank), but her use of the disco ball is in effect so utterly perfect for the opening that I really can't complain. Once again she's making something her own. Plus it's the most ambitious opening I've seen of her live (the last two tours she either came from the back behind fog or ascended from underneath the stage, which now seem like rather bland first appearances in comparison to that ball opening like a Lotus flower and her stepping out of it).

I've yet to see it live but from what I've seen of the clips I think it could even top Blond Ambition for as her most SPECTACULAR opening to date.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've yet to see it live but from what I've seen of the clips I think it could even top Blond Ambition for as her most SPECTACULAR opening to date.

Yes it has become Madonna's most Iconic tour opener IMHO! :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest The *KYLIE* Bug
Anyone remember when Topaz was NORMAL...before he got bitten by the KYLIE BUG?...

He is mine, forEVAH!!!

Muahahahahaha.

*chomp*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Topaz Scorpio
Topaz has a valid point of being dissapointed by the isco ball, even I was when I saw PF's brilliant NUMB performance, but looking back at the whole FL performance with the horse dance, equestrian S&M, Madonna did made it her own! She's ripped off the disco ball and how it opened but she only used that for the entrance, after that she went above & beyond and now is a classic performance! It even made me like a song I usually did not care too much in the first place, but now when I listen to FL that classic performance comes to mind and I love the song!

And Topaz, the Debbie Downer pic or whatever she is called is funny, I am sure that you have a sense of humour right?

Based on who posted it? Nah...not funny.

But as to your points about the disco ball. I too enjoyed the opening performance. The only critiques I had made about it prior to this was, I wasn't feeling the mixture of the horse theme with the disco ball and that it didn't give me the same feelings of anticipation that Drowned World or The Beast Within did on the previous tours, but I still thought it all looked amazing. And my finding out that the disco ball was borrowed, doesn't change my opinons on the opening. It just made me disappointed that everything wasn't entirely unique when she could have easily had the disco ball open a different way or have a slightly different look to it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Topaz Scorpio
Anyone remember when Topaz was NORMAL...before he got bitten by the KYLIE BUG?...

And my dearest Kim, do YOU remember when you actually contributed something to the forum other than occasional stops by to drop some random bitch bombs?

And as for Kylie. I am not this huge fan that people seem to be making me out to be. I only own a few of her CDs and a couple concert DVDs and 1 video collection. Beyond that I don't know much about her. Queen Bitch and other detractors could probably go on for days with Kylie knowledge compared to what I know. I have never ever posted threads saying "I Love Kylie" or gone on and on about her being fabulous or the best, or blah, blah, blah. And I have never even been to this SayHey message board that everyone always posts about as it sounds like a bunch of freaks. And yet people who claim to hate Kylie here seem to be active participants in that forum or at least avid readers. Don't understand that one, but whatever...

Anyway, I do defend Kylie and other artists as well if I see attacks that are unwarranted. There have been countless discussions about things like Kylie's singing voice, or her dancing, or her videos, and I may throw in my 2 cents about those things, but I have never defended against negative opinions on those things, because those are just opinions. And I will admit that I have gotten a chuckle or two out of the lampoon posts showing Kylie's head on an ostrich or a horse, as those were legitimately funny.

Examples of the things I posted at were when people were going on and on about Kylie's shows not selling (despite Billboard saying otherwise; this was in relation to some shows in England) and them giving away tickets on the radio etc. Meanwhile Madonna had not sold out Slane and was giving tons of tickets (at least in my area) through radio promos, so trashing Kylie here made no sense. Or there was the attack on Kylie for having a Showgirl tour costume that was similar to an outfit Madonna wore years ago in a photo shoot, and she supposedly was ripping Madonna off. And then of course there are the cancer posts, which I just find disgusting and wrong regardless that it's Kylie.

And there's just the general sense of constant put-down by of her by some here in comparison to Madonna, which completely confounds me. Kylie has never said anything negative about Madonna, has actually expressed liking her and her music, and even got the seal of approval from Madonna herself at Brixton. So why the attacks? I mean Mariah, Whitney, and Janet I can understand; they've all made attacks at Madonna at different times. Even Christina I can understand people insulting to an extent as she just opened herself up to attack by going all slut-o-rama. But what has Kylie done really to offend anyone? I mean, honestly, she's a bit dull. Enough that there's really not much there to even talk about beyond her music. And when the attacks just keep coming, and coming, and coming, it gets tiring. I mean, other people here were complaining about Madonnaboy and his Mariah posts, so why does Kylie-attacking get a free pass?

And I'm not completely alone here. Others are just less vocal about it. Although a number of people did complain about the cancer remarks in that thread due to their own family experiences, but it still remains.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Topaz Scorpio
Madonna: We're all plagiarising!

Posted: 11 July 2006 - From contactmusic.com

Pop icon Madonna has no qualms about stealing ideas from other artists because she insists it's an acceptable part of the creative process. Jessica Simpson and Paris Hilton have both been criticised recently for releasing songs that are reminiscent of Madonna's early hits, but she claims it's perfectly normal.

Madonna explains, '(Inspiration) is about paying attention. For instance, I saw David LaChapelles movie Rize, and it has incredible dancers in it. I found out who the dancers were and put them in my next video. I have an insatiable hunger and curiosity to find out about new things. Inevitably those things find their way into my work. I think that's what we do as artists and creative people - we're all plagiarising!'

That's all well and good, but it IS less creative in my mind. That doesn't mean the end product isn't GOOD though. They aren't mutually exclusive terms. And it also opens her up to lawsuits; the "Hollywood" video for instance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Topaz Scorpio

Then after you made that silly whine-fest of a post about the 'milestone' and the Kylie crap, I posted that picture as a playful way to say "it's not worth it."

I was being EXTREME and sarcastic on purpose you imbecile.

What made me come back was your constant need to be such a vengeful grump when it comes to Madonna and her supposed 'rivals.' It's DUMB. Your whole basis for posting this thread was to hit back at the Kylie wars - you said so yourself. I mean are you serious? RIDICULOUS.

No, you've just got your panties in a bunch because I called you on your incessant and childish attacks on Christina. I mean, I'm no fan of hers and have my gripes, but you just went on, and on, and on, and kept inserting the insults in nearly any post that mentioned Christina's name.

In addition, it only took that picture (at the time it was just a mere wisecrack) for you to come lash out at me and declare yourself so 'above' posts like that and then go OUT OF YOUR WAY to try and make me look like the immature one. Petty indeed.

Believe me, I didn't have to go out of my way at all to make you look like that.

You shoot smartass jokes like that all the time in response to people's posts. You also say really RUDE things to people too. And no don't ask me to go hunt down an example for you because I could care less

So do most of the people on this board. And RUDE things like say maybe calling a guy an asshole in a post last month because you thought he was disagreeing with you? Oh, wait that was you. Pot-Kettle-Black my man. You've had you own share of bitch fights on this board and back on your old stomping grounds on Madonnamad. In fact, when you first came here all you did was talk trash about people on that board. So don't even go there.

All I know is that this is all extremely hypocritical and if people's stupid posts about Madonna and Kylie bother you enough for you to make this vindictive and RETARDED thread about a disco ball, then I'm scared of you.

My reason for posting was because I was surprised at seeing it and wanted to share this piece of information. That people were being a bit flip and dismissive that I posted it (including yourself) caused me to respond with an extreme and sarcastic remark as it seemed to show a double standard where Madonna compared to other artists is concerned. That you would think I would create this whole thread as a secret and vindictive plot to get back at you means you need to take a major gulp of "GET OVER YOURSELF".

And yes, I mean it when I say get a sense of humor. You interpreted a Debbie Downer picture as a full fledged insult.

If you had something to say then you should have said it. You chose to be bitchy instead. And when you go that route then just expect the same in return. I know whereof I speak.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No, you've just got your panties in a bunch because I called you on your incessant and childish attacks on Christina. I mean, I'm no fan of hers and have my gripes, but you just went on, and on, and on, and kept inserting the insults in nearly any post that mentioned Christina's name.

Oh PLEASE. You think I care at all what you think of my Christina hate? It's all pretty much a joke and I think everyone here EXCEPT YOU interprets it as such. And if it BOTHERED me so much then why didn't I argue about it then? I was practically NICE about it. You can complain all you want about me hating Christina and its not going to bother me. It's got nothing to do with why we're arguing now.

And I'm not denying that I can be bitchy and rude at times - I'm definitely no angel. But I'm also not a damn stick in the mud. And yes I've trash talked people from Madonnamad before on here and on there. I don't see how that has anything to do with this. Those were situations with FREAKS and this is just a silly debate over your issues with pop stars.

The whole reason I brought up your rudeness was because you claimed to be all of a sudden this HAVEN of maturity regarding the aliases and my picture post, when you're hte one picking fights with MADONNABOY717 on a daily fucking basis and whining about the Kylie haters every chance you get.

And NO I didnt think this was a thread to get back at me. I mean are you KIDDING me? I'm not a Kylie hater by any means. Wether it was initially intended to be or not, it turned into you being vindictive brat about the Kylie mess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then after you made that silly whine-fest of a post about the 'milestone' and the Kylie crap, I posted that picture as a playful way to say "it's not worth it."

I was being EXTREME and sarcastic on purpose you imbecile.

That was the ENTIRE POINT. WHY bring up Kylie if you knew it was going to send this thread into a bitch-fest hall of fame.

And jesus you need some anger management.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Topaz Scorpio
That was the ENTIRE POINT. WHY bring up Kylie if you knew it was going to send this thread into a bitch-fest hall of fame.

And jesus you need some anger management.

Sure thing. But don't bother giving me the number of your therapist. Seems like you still have a lot of issues to work out there...

I made 1 sarcastic comment not directed at anyone in particular. You cannot say the same. So stop playing all holier-than-thou. You opened up the personal attack.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Topaz Scorpio

And I'm not denying that I can be bitchy and rude at times - I'm definitely no angel. But I'm also not a damn stick in the mud. And yes I've trash talked people from Madonnamad before on here and on there. I don't see how that has anything to do with this. Those were situations with FREAKS and this is just a silly debate over your issues with pop stars.

Hey, you were going to past history so it's only fair. And it's a bit hard to differentiate you from the FREAKS when you come on here going on and on about them like a raving loon. I had only a casual familiarity with that board at that time and knew that they were odd, but you were sounding just like them. If you were so bent on disassociating yourself from them then you shouldn't have mentioned them at all.

The whole reason I brought up your rudeness was because you claimed to be all of a sudden this HAVEN of maturity regarding the aliases and my picture post, when you're hte one picking fights with MADONNABOY717 on a daily fucking basis and whining about the Kylie haters every chance you get.

I never claimed such a thing. What I did was thank HolidayGuy for actually having DISCUSSION instead of playing silly picture games like you. Where in there did I say anything about my behavior or actions? So stop making shit up. And I'll stop talking about Kylie trashers as soon as you quit the Christina vendetta.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest soylatte

just watched the pink floyd video. i see that it's a ball suspended from the ceiling, and the bottom half opens like a flower. beyond that, i'm not impressed by the similarity to confessions. i would be surprised if madonna was inspired by this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, you were going to past history so it's only fair. And it's a bit hard to differentiate you from the FREAKS when you come on here going on and on about them like a raving loon. I had only a casual familiarity with that board at that time and knew that they were odd, but you were sounding just like them. If you were so bent on disassociating yourself from them then you shouldn't have mentioned them at all.

Sure thing. But don't bother giving me the number of your therapist. Seems like you still have a lot of issues to work out there...

lol What a low way to try and discredit me.

I never claimed such a thing. What I did was thank HolidayGuy for actually having DISCUSSION instead of playing silly picture games like you. Where in there did I say anything about my behavior or actions? So stop making shit up. And I'll stop talking about Kylie trashers as soon as you quit the Christina vendetta.

Read:

HG, I will thank you though for at least attempting discussion on the issue and not resorting to infantile picture posting or insults

Oh but its perfectly fine when you play those 'infantile' games in 'discussion' threads all the time. BALONEY.

And by all means continue the Kylie thing. This is the only time I've ever brought your Kylie problems up and will most likely be the last since they send you into such disturbing and defensive frenzy of personal attacks (I will admit that I shouldn't have called you an uptight asshole - but that was barely enough of a motive for you to spew all the nasty stuff you've sent my way in this thread). And if you hate my Christina crap, you can hit the road. No one's putting a gun to your head or asking you to take it seriously. LAWD knows I only selectively read your comments about Kylie and those never-ending hissy fits with MadonnaBoy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Topaz Scorpio
those never-ending hissy fits with MadonnaBoy.

You used to have those same kinds of spats with him you know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...