drunkbysix Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 From spin 94: Youve said that a strong, intelligent female is still more frightening than a gangster with a machine gun. Why is that? Because theres something about a gangster with a gun that men can identify with it still appeals to some sort of primal male thing about violence, and I think its ultimately less threatening. Why? Because a white men could look at a black man with a gun in his hand and go, okay, hes got a gun in his hand, but if I have a gun, then Im the same as he is. But any man could look at a strong woman and go, oh God, buying a gun isnt going to make you feel that you have the same thing. I think about these things all the time. I feel one of the reasons gay culture more readily accepts strong females and divas, or likes women on general, is that the sexual tension is removed. The ****ing aspect is nonexistent, so they just deal with women on an intellectual and emotional level. And straight men only think about how you may dominate them on some way or make their dicks shrivel up or something. Ive always in this naive way identified with other minorities because Im in a minority. You think that somehow unifies you in some philosophical way. But ultimately it doesnt. Because Ive found that being a strong female is actually more frightening to the black men that Ive dated. It took me a really long time to accept that. (Would it be the same if you were a black woman?) No (Its heightened by the fact that youre a white woman?) I why is that? This is a really touchy subject. You know, I believe that I have never been treated more disrespectfully as a woman than by the black men that Ive dated. Ive never actually said that to anybody, but its true and I think its a cultural thing. I think black men have just been **** on for so long, that, in a way, black women are maybe more willing to accept rage from a black man, because they see whats happened to them. So many black men grow up without fathers, without strong male figures, without a sense of romance and seeing a man treat a woman with respect. I always thought that I appealed to the black and/or gay communities because theyre minority groups and they are prejudged based on things that they have no control over. If youre born black, you have no control over that. If youre born gay you cant help that and you are judged by your sexual preference. The gay community does embrace me and is supportive of me; the black community, on the other hand does not. I identified with black men because I thought in a way we experience the same things people treat you like **** cause youre black, people treat you like **** cause youre a woman. But that is not in fact the case. And I came to the realization that a strong female is frightening to everybody, because all societies are male-dominated black societies, poor people, rich people, any racial group, theyre all dominated by men. A strong female is going to threaten everybody across the board. What did you think of the O.J. verdict? Where were you? I was here, in London, in a car, coming home from the studio, and I was devastated. I really was, I suppose I expected him to walk anyway, but I think everybody felt sick after the verdict, even the people who were cheering. I think hes guilty, but its our karma as a nation that he walked. Because we have mistreated blacks and judged them unfairly for so long. I'm kinda disappointed by these quotes, because as far as we know, none of the black men she dated abused her in the way Sean did, which is a form of disrespect, so I'm not sure what she meant. I'm not feeling these generalizations. Also, what does being a black woman have to do with the treatment by black men? Is she holding herself above them? What do you guys think? What drove her to answer this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rachelle of London Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Receipts please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 We don`t know her private experiences. If she said that is because she may have lived different situations and she was comparing and expressing herself. In fact, i find it refreshing that Madonna dares to explain what she thinks instead of tiptoe around the "forbidden" subject and just talk about flowers and bees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I think the comments are fair. It's a generalisation but at least based on her personal experiences. She's being honest and is definitely coming from a good place. She's also right. The gender barrier is the hardest to break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rachelle of London Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I think the comments are fair. It's a generalisation but at least based on her personal experiences. She's being honest and is definitely coming from a good place. She's also right. The gender barrier is the hardest to break. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apples388 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I don't see any problem with her comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael. Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I don't know the whole story because I was too young to really understand racial issues back then but I find that a lot of people read comments like this today and view it from today's perspective. Even though it doesn't seem like that long ago things were a lot different then which really shows that we have come a pretty long way when it comes to minorities. But anyway I'm not sure as to what relationships she is referring to but it sounds like this was around the time of her and 2pac. The rumors I've read about them were that they were really into each other but he dumped her because she was white. Apparently his friends or whoever were telling him he was insulting his heritage for dating a white woman or something along those lines so he ended it. Also there was the thing with Charles Barkley. I don't know the whole story other than the comment she made on Letterman saying he can't be friends with people. Paraphrasing. Perhaps someone can fill in some more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xanthium Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raf Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I think the comments are fair. It's a generalisation but at least based on her personal experiences. She's being honest and is definitely coming from a good place. She's also right. The gender barrier is the hardest to break. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s@ndz Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Madonna said in there that a strong woman is threatening to everybody, black or white. She dated many black men, so she speaks from experience and in general (not about the single most abusive person/relationship to her). When she dated Tupac, I think everyone in his community disapproved (coz she was white) and it seemed even he had trouble with her being white. He felt bad later when, unexpectedly, she was the one who did not close her door on him in his hour of need. With sean, the disrespect obviously had nothing to do with race issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollap Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I always love this woman's emotional intelligence, severely underrated. I think M is on the money esp. about how men feel emasculated by a strong woman. Except maybe not just a strong woman, but a woman who adopts traditional male roles yet still has the advantages of being female. There are strong women who adopt very female motherly roles and they are no threat to men. But M adopts a very male role in so many ways e.g. Likes to be the decision maker, talks about her sexual fantasies, is physically intimidating, is extremely intelligent and well read (more so than most men) yet she still has a strong femininity. It's confusing for straight men as they feel they have nothing to bring to the table. So they try to diminish her as it's the only way to deal with it. Gay men don't have to bring anything to the table with M because the sexual role threat thing is not there so there's no pressure. She can't emasculate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertogerard Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Dennis Rodman, Charles barkley, Tupac Shakur. And I'm NOT disappointed by her comments. I expect Madonna to be honest. Nothing she said was racist. Most of what she said was right on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJM Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 In the biography I'm reading it says the man that held her at knife point and made her perform oral sex on him was black so maybe that stuck with her subconsciously too. I don't know haha just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsaacHarris Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 She's clearly speaking form personal, anecdotal experience, which is always good; no matter how unpopular her opinion may be, Madonna wouldn't be Madonna if it wasn't for her honesty. What she said about the OJ verdict was dead-on though, 4REAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tuckeye Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 prolly about 2PAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugbyguy Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Nothing wrong with these quotes. I remember reading them in context back in '95 and they weren't considered shock g at the time. A few media outlets picked up on it but Madonna was so controversial at the tine that it was just one of many sound bites from her at the time that caused a bit of a stir, it just got lost in all the other controversies. Anyway I think she has obviously had the experience to warrant having an opinion. She was 35 at the time, not some dum little pop tart. I'm annoyed that this is being brought up by younger members of her fanbase and little idiot monsters. It's irrelevant to the current 'controversy.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Dennis Rodman, Charles barkley, Tupac Shakur. And I'm NOT disappointed by her comments. I expect Madonna to be honest. Nothing she said was racist. Most of what she said was right on. STEPHEN BRAY BISCUIT A-ROD and probably many many more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latinbold Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 ...for anybody to imply she is racist... that is beyond lazy and dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I was surprised when I read that in Spin (it was actually in the Jan 1996 issue). Around that time, she was more 'giving' in interviews, so to me i took it as experience has taught her those things. She did date at least 2 black men PRIOR to becoming famous: Steve Bray and Jean Michel Basquiat, both being creative men as well. Artists have a few more demons than the average person, in my experience. So I took that quote as she probably drew a few parallels between race and creative temperament. Personally speaking, i went through 4 relationships with the same guy before I realized that only their names were different (aside from all their races being different, too) Madonna has a type, at least historically, and they have a tendency to display anger and/or degradation to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Barthes Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 If she was racist she wouldn't have been romantically involved with black men Duhhhhh ! She's just talking from experience and i remember her and Oprah discussing this and especially Dennis Rodman on Oprah in 1997. Somebody please digg this one since it's unavailable online Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Barthes Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I was looking for the Oprah itw and found this. It has nothing to do with the topic we're discussing but i want to share it anyway. It's from the Evita diaries in Vanity Fair 96 : "London [Tuesday, May 7, 1996]:I am writing today as therapy. As damage control. To keep from crying out or destroying something. Women who are educated, women you call themselves feminists, women who are gay and have the nerve to attack me in the press and say that my choice to have a baby and not be married is contributing to the destruction of the nuclear family. Camille Paglia, a notoriously gay feminist and journalist, went as far as to imply that I had a child out of wedlock because I'm unable to bond with a man and that the public is justified in being outraged because people are concerned for the welfare of the child. They are afraid that I will raise my baby [a la Joan Crawford in Mommie Dearest] all alone in a dark mansion. There are discussions and arguments in editorial columns all over the US concerning my status as a single mother and whether I am a good role model for young girls. Does anyone complain that neither Susan Sarandon nor Goldie Hawn is married to the father of her children? Who said a word when Woody Allen and Mia Farrow had a child and continued to live across the park from each other? Why are these people not expected to be rolemodels? Why are these things never an issue with men? I believe that most people would be more comfortable if I got married and the marriage failed. I believe that divorce is more socially acceptable than single motherhood or being honest about your future. What a hypocritical society we live in! But the surprising thing is how sexist women are. On a good note, I survived my amniocentesis, though I won't pretend it was painless. The doctor was very comforting and we watched the baby move around for a while before invading its space with a seven inch needle. For the first time I felt fiercely protective, like a mother with her cub. He put the needle in with out numbing the area, which really hurt. Then I proceeded to dig a hole in Caresse's hand with my nails while the doctor withdrew the amniotic fluid. Instead of bumping into the needle, which was what I feared, the baby instinctively moved away from it and raised its hand into little fists to hide its face. For some reason this gave me relief. When the procedure was finished we tried to determine the baby's sex by moving the camera between its legs, but it showed its complete and utter annoyance with the intrusion by turning away from the camera and refusing to give up any information. A girl/boy after my own heart. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikki Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 oh god i bet the little monsters showed u this. don't they have enough work by buying artpop copies or harassing every journalist who gave their idol a bad review? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightshade Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I am actually surprised that SPIN interview didn't earn her more heat than it did. However, I have a feeling she was talking mainly about the basketball players she'd been dating 1993-1994. I think Dennis Rodman was probably the worst of the lot. Weirdo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cindystime Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Nothing racist abt. This at all. I love how Gaga fans are trying to spread this across the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivy Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Maybe it was after she fucked Michael Jackson, and she just got a little muddled up with race and sexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MerGirl Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Yeah, this interview has been making its' rounds on the internet these past few days. I've seen it posted a few times before though. Another thing that has been brought up is bell hooks opinion on Madonna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 I am actually surprised that SPIN interview didn't earn her more heat than it did. The people campaigning for 'racial equality' in this instance are more often than not doing it in the name of hate. These people live for being one of the Jones'. PATHETIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiejean Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 It's on tumblr calling her racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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