karbatal Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I love Deeper and Deeper, is a little bit "weak" (at the time you clearly noticed that it was not as good as her last singles, and in fact it wasn't the big hit they were expecting), but it's so great. Love the video, and especially the lyrics. I listened to Erotica today, and sang along to Deeper and Deeper and today i understood why she decided to sing that verse of Vogue. "when you know the notes to sing you can sing most anything, that's what my mama told me round and round and round you go, when you find love you'll always know". That's the message of the mother. But the father said that "romance was dead" and she believe it instead. She can't help falling in love, so at the end she sings "let your body move to the music. (the notes to sing, the sound of music)... let your body go with the flow". So: let yourself go, and fall in love. Well, that's my idea. For years i thought that it was sung on a whim by Madonna, but i think that she thought that the line was great for the meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Matter Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I love its lyrics, the melody, the video, the message, I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Lover Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I love absolutely everything about this song, the video, the mixes, everything. It made me a fan more than 20 years ago. I was 12 BTW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boy skeffington Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I actually think the fact it made its way into the top 10 during the most intense point of her backlash is a testament to how great people thought the song was even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 preach it bitches...one of my all time faves...love her voice, the guitars, lyrics, sound, full package...the video is great as well, she dancing, the ballons, the hair...perrrfection... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Borderline Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Deeper & Deeper is probably in my top 3 fave M songs ever. It's just perfection to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vogue992 Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I actually think the fact it made its way into the top 10 during the most intense point of her backlash is a testament to how great people thought the song was even then. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horn Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 ...when you know the notes to sing you can sing most anything... Doe... a deer... a female deer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Ray, a drop of golden sunnnn Question: do you think anybody can top the incredible high note that Julie Andrews delivers at the end of this bombastic number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horn Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Ray, a drop of golden sunnnn Question: do you think anybody can top the incredible high note that Julie Andrews delivers at the end of this bombastic number? Me of cos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raf Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 My favorite track from Erotica and definitely one of her strongest songs ever She needs to perform this again on her next tour! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 Me of cos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horn Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Not a bad post karb..., but when you call the song "weak," well.., I really really wanted to lash out at you. Watch your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip The Switch Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horn Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 The video is FAB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermind Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I absolutely think the "Vogue" callback works as a parallel to her mother's advice at the beginning of the song (which is in itself a callback obviously, as you noted to The Sound of Music). The song basically falls through the looking glass halfway through and reflects itself. I interpret things slightly differently though. Bear with me... "Deeper and Deeper" works on several levels, and aside from being the greatest coming out song ever, it's also a very personal song about her conflicted upbringing, and the long-lasting effects that her parents have had upon her life. Specifically, the tensions between her father's restrictive authoritarianism and her mother's boundless generosity and wisdom (a merger of "Promise to Try" and "Oh Father" almost). "When you know the notes to sing you can sing most anything" is a recognition that her mother is the greatest impetus behind her following her path to becoming a singer, to becoming MADONNA. The "Vogue" reference at the end is in part an acknowledgement of a destiny fulfilled (not only is she singing but she's singing her own iconic song!), of her mother's influence winning out over her father's repressive control. It's not intended to mean literally that Madonna Fortin said "go out and sing", the verse is intentially phrased as a universal parable (just one of the million incredible things about "Deeper and Deeper"), but rather that undeniably her mother's death is the defining event of her life - the one that has most shaped her experiences and psyche (and hence her music - has any popstar ever sung as much about mortality as Madonna?). Losing her mother is so much behind why she sought so deperately to find love and validation elsewhere ("I travelled round the world, looking for a home..."), to live so willfully and vitally in the moment, sometimes more than any other human it seems. Think with your heart not with you head, follow your dreams and desires because life is far too short. When you know the notes to sing you can sing most anything, do most anything, be almost anything. Madonna's life is living testament to that philosophy. "Deeper and Deeper" is an ode to her mother's love, those "kisses sent from heaven above", that still guide her and shape her and comfort her even though she's passed on. And always will ("I will always have you inside of me, even though you're gone, love still carries on..." as she spells it out on the following album). So the "Vogue" callback is her reflecting her mother's message. "Deeper and Deeper" is largely about growing up and becoming your own person, and the bridge and flamenco drop is precisely the point of internalisation and transformation. Her mother might be gone, but the "Vogue" climax is her becoming her own mother in her sense - now she's grown enough to be giving advice (and she's taking her own advice, because its her own song!). Except instead of instructing how to sing, she's instructing how to DANCE. "You've got to just let your body move to the music, you've got to just let your body go with the flow!". Because only when I'm dancing can I feel this free right? And "Deeper and Deeper" is essentially a story of liberation. It's like she's taking her mother's message and improving it, and passing it on to a whole new generation. Of course "Vogue" itself is a song offering divine advice, but there she was imperious - a Queen deigning to help her subjects transcend their meagre existences - here it's like she's just recognised on a gritty human level just how vital and life-changing those lyrics were. And have been to many of us I guess! Of course the reference to "Vogue" is also there because what better way to end the greatest coming out song of all time than throwing in the definitive gay anthem by the greatest gay icon ever as the climax - the point where you're out and accepted yourself and fuck it you're gonna go out out and dance and move to the music and go with the flow and live it up and listen to Madonna and be a massive slut 'cos there's nothing better that you'd like to do (no coincidence it's followed by "Where Life Begins" on Erotica btw). But the queer subtext is a whole other post and I've written way too much already. Greatest song ever IMO. The words 'epic' and 'masterpiece' don't do it justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 I absolutely think the "Vogue" callback works as a parallel to her mother's advice at the beginning of the song (which is in itself a callback obviously, as you noted to The Sound of Music). The song basically falls through the looking glass halfway through and reflects itself. I interpret things slightly differently though. Bear with me... "Deeper and Deeper" works on several levels, and aside from being the greatest coming out song ever, it's also a very personal song about her conflicted upbringing, and the long-lasting effects that her parents have had upon her life. Specifically, the tensions between her father's restrictive authoritarianism and her mother's boundless generosity and wisdom (a merger of "Promise to Try" and "Oh Father" almost). "When you know the notes to sing you can sing most anything" is a recognition that her mother is the greatest impetus behind her following her path to becoming a singer, to becoming MADONNA. The "Vogue" reference at the end is in part an acknowledgement of a destiny fulfilled (not only is she singing but she's singing her own iconic song!), of her mother's influence winning out over her father's repressive control. It's not intended to mean literally that Madonna Fortin said "go out and sing", the verse is intentially phrased as a universal parable (just one of the million incredible things about "Deeper and Deeper"), but rather that undeniably her mother's death is the defining event of her life - the one that has most shaped her experiences and psyche (and hence her music - has any popstar ever sung as much about mortality as Madonna?). Losing her mother is so much behind why she sought so deperately to find love and validation elsewhere ("I travelled round the world, looking for a home..."), to live so willfully and vitally in the moment, sometimes more than any other human it seems. Think with your heart not with you head, follow your dreams and desires because life is far too short. When you know the notes to sing you can sing most anything, do most anything, be almost anything. Madonna's life is living testament to that philosophy. "Deeper and Deeper" is an ode to her mother's love, those "kisses sent from heaven above", that still guide her and shape her and comfort her even though she's passed on. And always will ("I will always have you inside of me, even though you're gone, love still carries on..." as she spells it out on the following album). So the "Vogue" callback is her reflecting her mother's message. "Deeper and Deeper" is largely about growing up and becoming your own person, and the bridge and flamenco drop is precisely the point of internalisation and transformation. Her mother might be gone, but the "Vogue" climax is her becoming her own mother in her sense - now she's grown enough to be giving advice (and she's taking her own advice, because its her own song!). Except instead of instructing how to sing, she's instructing how to DANCE. "You've got to just let your body move to the music, you've got to just let your body go with the flow!". Because only when I'm dancing can I feel this free right? And "Deeper and Deeper" is essentially a story of liberation. It's like she's taking her mother's message and improving it, and passing it on to a whole new generation. Of course "Vogue" itself is a song offering divine advice, but there she was imperious - a Queen deigning to help her subjects transcend their meagre existences - here it's like she's just recognised on a gritty human level just how vital and life-changing those lyrics were. And have been to many of us I guess! Of course the reference to "Vogue" is also there because what better way to end the greatest coming out song of all time than throwing in the definitive gay anthem by the greatest gay icon ever as the climax - the point where you're out and accepted yourself and fuck it you're gonna go out out and dance and move to the music and go with the flow and live it up and listen to Madonna and be a massive slut 'cos there's nothing better that you'd like to do (no coincidence it's followed by "Where Life Begins" on Erotica btw). But the queer subtext is a whole other post and I've written way too much already. Greatest song ever IMO. The words 'epic' and 'masterpiece' don't do it justice. Love this. I love decoding and analyzing M's work, and seeing other fans interpretations. No arrogance either. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCD Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 preach it bitches...one of my all time faves...love her voice, the guitars, lyrics, sound, full package...the video is great as well, she dancing, the ballons, the hair...perrrfection... Amen. It's all fabulous. 100 percent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrokenButterfly Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 This song just has so many layers to it and the production is awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Platinum Gold Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 It's so amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Masterpiece. So is your explanation Mr. Nevermind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horn Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 ...The "Vogue" reference at the end is in part an acknowledgement of a destiny fulfilled (not only is she singing but she's singing her own iconic song!), of her mother's influence winning out over her father's repressive control. What I learned was that M & Shep were unable to get the verse right and later Madge decided to sample Vogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevermind Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 What I learned was that M & Shep were unable to get the verse right and later Madge decided to sample Vogue. That's interesting, because what strikes me about the "Vogue" sample is that on the face of it is seems so unnecessary. By the time it comes in, there definitely isn't any need for a verse - the song is already just under 5 minutes long - the song could end right there and work perfectly. It follows that "deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper, never gonna hide it again, sweeter and sweeter and sweeter and sweeter, never gonna have to pretend..." section that works as a signature Madonna rising outro exactly like the ones at the end of "Papa Don't Preach" and "Like a Prayer" and "Vogue" that are incredible features in themselves (lesser artists would just repeat the chorus and close). We're so used to the "Vogue" quote now but anyone listening to the song for the first time would think the song was fading out on a high. But here she pushes on, adds the "Vogue" bit to climax the song for a second time, and then adds that final coda "you know there's nothing better that I'd like to do" to close. I mean, what other pop songs provide three brand new sections that last for over a minute after the final chorus? The song is just gratuitously generous. Everything is so finely thought out and well placed (which makes me so sure the "Vogue" quote is there for a reason), while simultaneously feeling so naturalistic and improvised in that moment. And that's without mentioning the song's intro, bridges, middle eight (with the strings coming in half way through...), flamenco drop... Like seriously!!! The only song she has that works on such an epic scope is "Like a Prayer", perhaps "Vogue". It's really really not given enough credit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apples388 Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Amazing lyrics and The Sound of Music reference is genius! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dollhouse Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 the greatest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 Really cool vision, Nevermind! When i say "weak" is in the term of "megamonsterhits". Please people remember she had released LAP and then Vogue and then Justify My Love and then.... "Deeper and Deeper". We may love the song, but just remember when was it released: after a nonstoppable 7 years period of effortless monsterhits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 That whole album is pure masterpiece. She can never top Erotica. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted January 12, 2014 Author Share Posted January 12, 2014 I think she already did, to be fair. ROL or Music are up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 12, 2014 Share Posted January 12, 2014 Does anyone know if Madonnanation makes money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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