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material_boy

My dream producer for the next album is...

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When has madonna claimed she has written these songs? This is what you're not understanding!

If she wants to record a song that's been rejected, she can do so! That does not make her any less of an artist.

Yes, it does.

Why does it matter to me? Because I've been a fan of madonna for years and I hate it when people claim she is something she is not.

But it has nothing to do with you. It's not about you. So why are you personally offended if something is said of Madonna that you don't want to hear?

She never parades around and tells people she wrote something she did not!

^ See above. It was "I wrote", not "we wrote". It wasn't even "with Joe Henry". In other words, she lied.

I don't understand how much I have to repeat myself, and I'm done trying to prove something to you.

You haven't exactly proven anything to me so repeating doesn't work.

But I'm glad you and I can finally move on. I consider her to be a lesser artist than she used to be and that's it. It's evident in all her work. My opinion of her shouldn't be a problem to anyone. Nor should anyone be offended by it (I still think that's odd).

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so now that nuetrocks and his essays are banned, we're now blessed with unseenhands essays instead :(

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Oh for fucks sake, haven't we had enough already? WE GET IT, unseen, you don't think highly of Madonna as an artist now. Can we move on now, please?!

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Guest Rachelle of London

^ Not denying your story or that this is what happened, but why would she email them to say she wanted to change the song? She could just change it.

She emailed them in the middle of the night, and they were in the studio the next day changing things. I think at 3am it might be hard to round up everyone to go in the studio. In the morning was probably more convenient. I don't know whether Madonna has a home studio, so could she even change it herself anyway

I think that shows more about Madonna the person. A lot of people would just be happy with the final cut if a song whereas she could wake up in the middle of the night with ideas.

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Guest Rachelle of London

I would love to hear the version of love spent before Madonna was involved. I wonder if all that would ever leak.

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Partially it's my fault, so sorry abt that. It's impossible to prove a point to them

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Guest Rachelle of London

Madonna needs to work with Amel Larrieux! I would die!

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so now that nuetrocks and his essays are banned, we're now blessed with unseenhands essays instead :(

given Neutrocks' history i wouldn't be suprised if he and TheUnseenHand are the same person :daft:

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Guest Not4Pussies

In the realm of songwriting I would love Madonna to work with Priscilla Renea again. Priscilla has nothing but positive things to say about working with M, a great talent and a whizz with lyrics.

I second this. I would also like for her to work with Jean Baptiste Kuomo again. He co wrote one of my new all time favorite Madonna songs ever.

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Guest Not4Pussies

She emailed them in the middle of the night, and they were in the studio the next day changing things. I think at 3am it might be hard to round up everyone to go in the studio. In the morning was probably more convenient. I don't know whether Madonna has a home studio, so could she even change it herself anyway

I think that shows more about Madonna the person. A lot of people would just be happy with the final cut if a song whereas she could wake up in the middle of the night with ideas.

We know the woman doesn't sleep so I believe this. Plus she emailed the people she was collaborating with on the song. I find it more strange if she didn't let them know and change it herself like vocalism is suggesting.

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Madonna needs to work with Amel Larrieux! I would die!

Something like Gills & Tails would be VERY good for Madonna.

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Guest Rachelle of London

oh Isaac YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

I could so see M doing a version of Bravebird (the song)

very Bedtime Story part 2!!!!

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I second this. I would also like for her to work with Jean Baptiste Kuomo again. He co wrote one of my new all time favorite Madonna songs ever.

I'm a Sinner?

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im a sinner is a great track. loved her performance of it on the MDNA tour :) classic madonna :) it's one of my favourite M songs.. :p

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Guest

Wow. A third? You say that like it's a good accomplishment and something to be proud of for someone who calls herself an artist.

Like I said... She put as little effort into making both HC and MDNA as she could get away with.

I'll give you this much... The best line on entire MDNA might from IA: "Saying your name is somewhere between a prayer and a shout". I say "might" because I've forgotten a lot of that album. The last time I listened to it and most of its songs was at the end of March 2012.

Oh, and as for Masterpiece... Of course, the writers say she wrote it with them. But watch them being interviewed about it and how uncomfortable they are talking about working with Madonna. Read between the lines. Read their body language. Heck, read the lyrics. Madonna today hasn't got the facility with words or metaphors on her own to write that song.

Are you kidding me with this shit? What are the high brow metaphors in Masterpiece? :lmao: If anything Madonna attempts to simplify the lyrics and metaphors in her songs in order to keep them relatable.

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What about Will.I.Am? I think he could come up with something good for Madonna.I love the new Robin Thicke single "Feel Good" which was produced by Will.She should ask Will to submit a few demos.

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Guest Not4Pussies

I'm a Sinner?

yes babe.

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Yeah she did. She was amazed at how quickly M writes. She said after they thought love spent was finished M emailed them in the middle of the night saying she wants to change the song. And then the 3rd verse was changed the next morning.

San last time I dared to state this in a thread it was implied that I was lying. :chuckle:

But Priscilla was totally amazed at how professional Madonna was. We literally talked about her throughout the whole dinner. They're still in touch so who knows. It's nice to know that Everyone who works with M always has nice things to say about her

:lmao: Why would you lie about it. It's a fairly benign story and nothing unusual compared to what we've heard from other collaborators. Sensitive peeps around here sometimes :lol:

The woman is a workaholic (and perfectionist). I have worked with people just like that and they get up at all hours to chase ideas and send emails.

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im a sinner is a great track. loved her performance of it on the MDNA tour :) classic madonna :) it's one of my favourite M songs.. :p

It really surprised me how much I loved it on tour. A definite highlight. Guy O even called me over to thank my sister and I for dancing so enthusiastically :lol:

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Guest

Yes, it does.

But it has nothing to do with you. It's not about you. So why are you personally offended if something is said of Madonna that you don't want to hear?

^ See above. It was "I wrote", not "we wrote". It wasn't even "with Joe Henry". In other words, she lied.

You haven't exactly proven anything to me so repeating doesn't work.

But I'm glad you and I can finally move on. I consider her to be a lesser artist than she used to be and that's it. It's evident in all her work. My opinion of her shouldn't be a problem to anyone. Nor should anyone be offended by it (I still think that's odd).

1) You don't know the entire details of her involvement with DTM.

2) She did 'rewrite' the song.

3) She credited Joe appropriately on every piece of literature and financially. She also discussed the process in length during interviews. However she's not going to go into extensive details while introducing a performance on David Letterman. It's not that kind of show.

4) She may not have been 100% accurate but please don't make out she was trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes. Stop the bullshit.

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1) You don't know the entire details of her involvement with DTM. She did 'rewrite' the song. She credited Joe appropriately on every piece of literature and financially. She also discussed the process in length during interviews. However she's not going to go into extensive details while introducing a performance on David Letterman. It's not that kind of show. She may not have been 100% accurate but please don't make out she was trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes. Stop the bullshit.

:thumbsup: Love how you always take on the harshest Madonna critics that invade here and keep pointing out her "faults" all of the time.

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Guest Xanthium

Personally, I don't care if Madonna writes the lyrics or has someone else do it as long as they're good lyrics. Madonna, at times, relies on cliches and simplistic rhymes so I'm not adamant about her writing everything herself. I'd much rather her collaborate with songwriters who will challenge her, inspire her, and lead her away from using daft lyrics. Also, not writing all the lyrics doesn't make you less of an artist. Sometimes it's better to admit what you aren't good at and ask for help. I love it when she uses poetry as lyrical inspiration. I love it when artists inspire other artists and influence their work.

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Personally, I don't care if Madonna writes the lyrics or has someone else do it as long as they're good lyrics. Madonna, at times, relies on cliches and simplistic rhymes so I'm not adamant about her writing everything herself. I'd much rather her collaborate with songwriters who will challenge her, inspire her, and lead her away from using daft lyrics. Also, not writing all the lyrics doesn't make you less of an artist. Sometimes it's better to admit what you aren't good at and ask for help. I love it when she uses poetry as lyrical inspiration. I love it when artists inspire other artists and influence their work.

I agree with this.I think Madonna is wise to collaborate with other songwriters,instead of trying to write everything herself.She needs to surround herself with a few great songwriters who will challenge and inspire her to come up with some amazing lyrics.Nothing wrong with that.

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Yes, it does.

But it has nothing to do with you. It's not about you. So why are you personally offended if something is said of Madonna that you don't want to hear?

^ See above. It was "I wrote", not "we wrote". It wasn't even "with Joe Henry". In other words, she lied.

You haven't exactly proven anything to me so repeating doesn't work.

But I'm glad you and I can finally move on. I consider her to be a lesser artist than she used to be and that's it. It's evident in all her work. My opinion of her shouldn't be a problem to anyone. Nor should anyone be offended by it (I still think that's odd).

So what's your point? Your agenda? Every post you have made has stated you feel she sucks now and how she's less of an artist. Is that your purpose for joining? To convince people at one of the most well known "positive" Madonna fan forums that she's no good anymore? I'm just trying to understand why you choose to join a Madonna forum at the nadir of your fandom to only discuss how you feel she's declined.

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^^ I agree with Kurt.This "Unseenhand" person obviously has a problem with Madonna and her recent albums.Nothing wrong with that,but what is the point of constantly letting us know that?? Why not just simply move on,and listen to other artists,so that you can find what you're (clearly) not getting from Madonna's recent music? It's pointless and rather silly to go on a Madonna fansite and argue that Madonna isn't good anymore...lol...

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^ Since I have similar feelings as he/she does, I'll just say that it's silly to suggest someone shouldn't come to a Madonna forum to express his/her feelings just because it's not positive. He/she is obviously still a fan of most of her work. With a few exceptions, we're ALL fans here. She's been around for 30 years. Being a fan doesn't mean always liking everything she does. How boring would this place be if everyone only gushed about how amazing everything she does is? Madonna could stop releasing music starting today and most of us would still continue being fans despite being deeply disappointed. I'm not a big fan of HC, but thought MDNA was a vast improvement. Should I have stopped coming to this forum until she did something I liked? I know your point is that he keeps going on about it, but that's because people are replying and engaging him on his opinions. I don't understand why people are so fixated on attacking other posters on here.

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Are you kidding me with this shit? What are the high brow metaphors in Masterpiece? :lmao: If anything Madonna attempts to simplify the lyrics and metaphors in her songs in order to keep them relatable.

Did I say the metaphors in Masterpiece are especially "high-brow"? No. But Madonna relies on clichés when it comes to metaphors. Her use of them nowadays is kinda lazy. Also, you can always tell what's been written by Madonna nowadays. Like we can be 100% sure that Madonna wrote the "super duper" line on Superstar as no one else in the world says "super duper" anymore.

1) You don't know the entire details of her involvement with DTM.

2) She did 'rewrite' the song.

3) She credited Joe appropriately on every piece of literature and financially. She also discussed the process in length during interviews. However she's not going to go into extensive details while introducing a performance on David Letterman. It's not that kind of show.

4) She may not have been 100% accurate but please don't make out she was trying to pull the wool over anybody's eyes. Stop the bullshit.

1) What's more to know in terms of what we've been discussing?

2) But saying "I wrote this song" is still simply untrue.

3) Yes, she did credit him on those because she has to. And you've got to be kidding me. Saying "I co-wrote this song with Joe Henry" would have been closer to truth (also still not entirely accurate) or something along those lines wouldn't have been "going into extensive detail", LOL.

4) But that's typical of her. It's part of the mythology that she's created around herself. Ask Christopher.

So what's your point? Your agenda? Every post you have made has stated you feel she sucks now and how she's less of an artist. Is that your purpose for joining? To convince people at one of the most well known "positive" Madonna fan forums that she's no good anymore? I'm just trying to understand why you choose to join a Madonna forum at the nadir of your fandom to only discuss how you feel she's declined.

There's no agenda. Like I said, I posted my opinion and I would've been fine at that one post. But people got upset and started to reply to me so in the name of discussion I'm answering them back. Isn't that what these forums are about? I don't need to convince anyone. Or does that work the other way around, too? Are you trying to convince me that Madonna is a saint and a great lyricist nowadays? If so, where's the evidence?

Oh, and I said this before in this thread but I'm going to say it again: The notion that I'm all negative in regards to Madonna is simply not true. it's not like I've gone on a full-blown attack here. I've criticized her basically for one thing here. That's it. I don't go around in every thread saying something negative about her. I don't need to because that's not how I feel. In fact, I've said many positive things about her in this thread, too, but nobody pays any attention to that. So it's kinda odd that people perceive me to be the negative one when you're the ones who concentrate on my criticism but ignore the great compliments I've said of her.

Finally, I was ready to move on on page 7. I still ready to do that and I'd love that but if someone responds to me, I think it's polite I respond to them. Thank you.

Edited by TheUnseenHand

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Regarding Madonna taking credit for songs she didn't write (or only contributed to very minorly), she has always done this. In an interview for Erotica (I want to say with Jonathan Ross?) she said "After I wrote 'Justify My Love,' people approached me to write a book of erotica." We know that her contributions to that song were minimal based on previous interviews she gave about the song. She's also failed to correct interviewers when they've implied that she wrote songs like "Like a Virgin" and "Material Girl." Obviously not the same thing, especially since there's other interviews where she has gone out of her way to say she didn't write those song. But she does have a history of doing this, and it's quite possible that she just does so many interviews, and has done so many songs, and performed them for so long that she forgets which ones she wrote or not. I doubt it's with malicious intent to take credit for someone else's work. But the DTM instance was a little strange, since it was a new song and she knows very well it was based on Joe's track. She did massively rewrite it though, and her brother in law probably made some great money from it, so I doubt he cared much. He and her sister were probably were sitting at home watching Letterman going "Oh, Louise" and rolling their eyes.

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