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Can we close this thread? Cause I'm just getting angry and it seems like theunseenhand is just gonna bring up more and more things that he believes that's gonna upset me

If we closed a thread everytime someone got "upset" this whole forum would close down.

Why should I have to be in the studio with her? That's silly. Should we all have been in the studio to discuss things regarding to her and her work?

Please, pay attention. I've never said she doesn't deserve a songwriting credit for DTM.

I have watched documentaries of her and they all rely on what she has said of herself. Where's the proof? It's just her word on it. But honestly, do you really think that girl lived only on peanuts and popcorn? I don't think so. That girl wasn't starving.

Christopher totally denies that Madonna arrived in New York with nothing but 34 dollars in her pocket. What he says about Madonna's early days in NYC sounds so much more reliable and plausible than what Madonna wants or wanted to people to believe in. The whole "34 dollars" thing is nothing but storytelling. But like Christopher says it's insulting to their father. It's hurtful to him that Madonna gave an impression of him that he didn't care and let her daughter live on eating popcorn. Same with Madonna saying that her family was lower middle class. Part of her mythology is that she wants people to believe that she comes from worse background than she really does. She wants people to believe that her story is closer to "rags to riches" than it really is.

Seriously, approach and evaluate things with little more critically.

It's pretty obvious to me that the "mythology" surrounding Madonna's arrival in NY is just that: mythology. I don't doubt that everything she's said is true. She had a certain amount of money in her pocket, told the cabbie to drop her off in the middle of everything, lived on popcorn and yogurt for a while, squatted in the rehearsal building, etc. etc. But that doesn't mean she COULDN'T have called her father for help or that he wasn't willing to do so. She even said in "Madonna Rising" in 1998 that she refused to ask him for help. She wanted to do it on her own. It was her CHOICE. That doesn't mean she didn't suffer or wasn't hungry and sad. She's also told stories about how generous people were, how they took her in, fed her meals, paid for things, and she was even taken to Paris and treated like an up and coming star (though she didn't record anything and was bored, so she left...again, of her own volition).

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If we closed a thread everytime someone got "upset" this whole forum would close down.

It's pretty obvious to me that the "mythology" surrounding Madonna's arrival in NY is just that: mythology. I don't doubt that everything she's said is true. She had a certain amount of money in her pocket, told the cabbie to drop her off in the middle of everything, lived on popcorn and yogurt for a while, squatted in the rehearsal building, etc. etc. But that doesn't mean she COULDN'T have called her father for help or that he wasn't willing to do so. She even said in "Madonna Rising" in 1998 that she refused to ask him for help. She wanted to do it on her own. It was her CHOICE. That doesn't mean she didn't suffer or wasn't hungry and sad. She's also told stories about how generous people were, how they took her in, fed her meals, paid for things, and she was even taken to Paris and treated like an up and coming star (though she didn't record anything and was bored, so she left...again, of her own volition).

I was upset when I wrote that, pay no mind

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Sigh.

A song writing credit isn't something solely for the person who wrote the lyrics, even if someone wrote the lyrics for Madonna completely; as long as she contributed by changing the melody or adding her own ad libs and so on, it COUNTS as a song writing credit. Song writing isn't about just lyrics, in fact that only encompasses a small part of it, if you listen to the original Don't Tell Me and Madonna's version, they differ greatly, despite the fact the lyrics are practically the same.

It doesn't matter, a contribution to the songs melodic structure is song writing, song producing is a different matter all together.

So unless you were with her in the studio, move on.

:clap:

Ummmm....then what did she arrive with? You have got to be kidding me with this one.....she had nothing in New York. Were you there? Did you even watch the docs on her and her life there? SHE WAS POOR....what was she there, a millionaire?

So are you gonna say Madonna wasn't raped now? Or that Sean penn didn't abuse her? Or that her mother didn't die? Since she likes to create a mythology around herself.

I think people like him are aiming to either be subversive or super cool. Unfortunately he's just falling for the much hegemony of Madonna's detractors. I mean Christopher's book is HIS POINT OF VIEW and written while he was super angry at her and jealous of her! It's not hard to see that. Maybe theunseenhand is Christopher and that unseen hand is in reference to. Christopher's hand when it was wiping the sweat off of Madonna's tits. That would actually make a lot of sense.

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It's glamorizing and romanticizing her story into something that it really wasn't. People love "rags to riches" type of stories so it's no wonder why Madonna wants people to believe something that isn't factually accurate.

Once you present evidence of these facts I'll give you credit. Until then you're just a jealous wannabe.

I ain't gonna read all that shit, but It's ironic DTM is being tossed around 2 discredit her credit as a song writer...

It's exactly the opposite...listen to the melody & the music of her version...that's prime song writing.

THE END.

That was exactly my point. :-)

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Once you present evidence of these facts I'll give you credit. Until then you're just a jealous wannabe.

And I'm waiting Madonna to provide the evidence first. And the facts and the truth.

Just kidding, people, just kidding. Lighten up.

But seriously, you don't even agree with me that her story isn't really "rags to riches"? Or that she isn't exactly truthful and honest when she says that she comes from a lower middle class family? Her family was clearly upper middle class. Dare I say it? Christopher says that, too. There. I said it.

Oh, I don't need you or anyone else to give me credit for anything. I don't need it and I'm not asking for it. Ever.

(And what the hell would I be jealous about? And of whom? Oh well, not expecting)

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And I'm waiting Madonna to provide the evidence first. And the facts and the truth.

Just kidding, people, just kidding. Lighten up.

But seriously, you don't even agree with me that her story isn't really "rags to riches"? Or that she isn't exactly truthful and honest when she says that she comes from a lower middle class family? Her family was clearly upper middle class. Dare I say it? Christopher says that, too. There. I said it.

Oh, I don't need you or anyone else to give me credit for anything. I don't need it and I'm not asking for it. Ever.

(And what the hell would I be jealous about? And of whom? Oh well, not expecting)

If you state something is a fact then it's imperative that you have evidence to back that claim up. Otherwise it's not a fact but an opinion. Now that you know the difference would you like to change your statement? I also wouldn't consider Madonna to have been brought up in an upper middle class household. If that's how you want to define it then knock yourself out but I can discredit your theory immediately. Just look at the lives of her siblings. They are not privileged lifestyles.

The case wasn't rags to riches for me. That implies something overnight and without difficulty. Instead it was a story of hard work, wit and determination leading to immense success. So take your facts and stick them up your ass. :-)

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If you state something is a fact then it's imperative that you have evidence to back that claim up.

That seems to be a recurring theme lately; Stating claims, with no evidence to support these claims, and then demanding evidence to the contrary. 2014 is shaping up to be a weird year already :rotfl:

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Madonna's family may have had money but certainly nothing like the millions she has made as an entertainer. So comparetively is a rags to riches story and pretty amazing. Madonna's father was an engineer and they make good money but her family was large so by the time her father paid for all the kids' needs I don't think the family was really super rich. I'm sure they had everything they needed but she certainly wasn't wearing designer clothes when she was growing up.

A lot of people's parents have money but that doesn't mean they see themselves as rich. It's your parents' money not yours. I"m sure her father would have helped out if she had asked, but he also had other children at home so it's not like he was going to pay for her to live in some gigantic super fancy apartment in Manhattan.

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If you state something is a fact then it's imperative that you have evidence to back that claim up.

Please, tell me something that I don't already know.

What exactly are you refering to? What is that "something" that I've stated to be a fact for which you need me to provide evidence to?

And why don't you ask that from everyone in this thread? Why just me? Not that I mind being singled out, I'm fine with it, but it almost seems like you want evidence only when it's for something that doesn't fit your perfect picture of Madonna.

Now that you know the difference would you like to change your statement?

I still don't know what statement of mine you're refering to is or which ones I should change. Nothing you've said actually proves anything I've said to be incorrect.

I also wouldn't consider Madonna to have been brought up in an upper middle class household. If that's how you want to define it then knock yourself out but I can discredit your theory immediately. Just look at the lives of her siblings. They are not privileged lifestyles.

Um, and what exactly has that got to do with anything? Why should they live priviledged lifestyles? Just because they come from a upper middle class family? Now that kind of a suggestion is just plain stupid, don't you think?

And it certainly doesn't discredit the fact that Madonna grew up in a upper middle class family.

The case wasn't rags to riches for me. That implies something overnight and without difficulty. Instead it was a story of hard work, wit and determination leading to immense success. So take your facts and stick them up your ass. :-)

So now you acknowledge that they are facts? That's mighty classy of you. And it's also very nice to know how much you care for facts.

Edited by TheUnseenHand
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Unseen hand have you visited the other threads yet?

I have.

What? Are you interested in stalking me? Or just asking to know which threads to avoid? :p

Btw, it's TheUnseenHand, thank you very much. TUH is fine, too. A lot of you people seem to have a problem writing my name properly.

Edited by TheUnseenHand
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Guest Rachelle of London

I have.

What? Are you interested in stalking me? Or just asking to know which threads to avoid? :p

Btw, it's TheUnseenHand, thank you very much. TUH is fine, too. A lot of you people seem to have a problem writing my name properly.

:dead:

Don't worry I'm not gonna stalk or avoid you! Just wanted to tell you that I'm a big fan. The Girlie Show is my fave tour and BAT is simply amazing.

And your book! The butter incident! My favourite part!

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That seems to be a recurring theme lately; Stating claims, with no evidence to support these claims, and then demanding evidence to the contrary. 2014 is shaping up to be a weird year already :rotfl:

The logic of the illogical.

Please, tell me something that I don't already know.

What exactly are you refering to? What is that "something" that I've stated to be a fact for which you need me to provide evidence to?

And why don't you ask that from everyone in this thread? Why just me? Not that I mind being singled out, I'm fine with it, but it almost seems like you want evidence only when it's for something that doesn't fit your perfect picture of Madonna.

I still don't know what statement of mine you're refering to is or which ones I should change. Nothing you've said actually proves anything I've said to be incorrect.

Um, and what exactly has that got to do with anything? Why should they live priviledged lifestyles? Just because they come from a upper middle class family? Now that kind of a suggestion is just plain stupid, don't you think?

And it certainly doesn't discredit the fact that Madonna grew up in a upper middle class family.

So now you acknowledge that they are facts? That's mighty classy of you. And it's also very nice to know how much you care for facts.

You can't edit the truth.

:dead:

Don't worry I'm not gonna stalk or avoid you! Just wanted to tell you that I'm a big fan. The Girlie Show is my fave tour and BAT is simply amazing.

And your book! The butter incident! My favourite part!

My dream producer is Christopher Ciccone.

:dead: I agree with Madonna on the butter situation.
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Guest Rachelle of London

How DARE Madonna want to cut down the fat a month after giving birth! Unseen hand was just being unreasonable. First not wanting butter on the table, then wording things incorrectly in an interview when discussing songwriting, fair to say Madonnas just evil!

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Sigh.

A song writing credit isn't something solely for the person who wrote the lyrics, even if someone wrote the lyrics for Madonna completely; as long as she contributed by changing the melody or adding her own ad libs and so on, it COUNTS as a song writing credit. Song writing isn't about just lyrics, in fact that only encompasses a small part of it, if you listen to the original Don't Tell Me and Madonna's version, they differ greatly, despite the fact the lyrics are practically the same.

It doesn't matter, a contribution to the songs melodic structure is song writing, song producing is a different matter all together.

So unless you were with her in the studio, move on.

Can a mod please pin this post? Please?
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This is what Madonna herself said in Time Magazine 1985 about coming to New York.

NEW YORK. I saved up enough money for a oneway ticket and flew to New York. It was my first plane trip. When I got off the plane, I got in a taxi and told the driver to take me to the middle of everything. That turned out to be Times Square. I think the cab driver was saying, like, “O.K., I’ll show her something.” I think he got a chuckle out of that. I got out of the cab and I was overwhelmed because the buildings, you know, are really high. I walked east on 42nd Street and then south on Lexington and there was a street fair. It was the summer and I had on a winter coat and was carrying a suitcase. This guy started following me around. He wasn’t cute or anything, but he looked interesting. I said hi to him, and he said, “Why are you walking around with a winter coat and a suitcase?” And I said, “I just got off the plane.” And then he said, “Why don’t you go home and get rid of it?” And I said, “I don’t live anywhere.” He was dumbfounded. So he said, “Well, you can stay at my apartment.” So I stayed there for the first two weeks. He didn’t try to rape me or anything. He showed me where everything was, and he fed me breakfast. It was perfect. (In Southernlady accent) I relied on the kindness of strangers. So then I auditioned and got a scholarship to the Alvin Ailey school. I wasn’t worried about not getting anywhere as a dancer. I knew I was a decent dancer. It was great. I moved from one dive to the next, I was poor. I lived on popcorn, that’s why I still love it. Popcorn is cheap and it fills you up.

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It's pretty obvious to me that the "mythology" surrounding Madonna's arrival in NY is just that: mythology. I don't doubt that everything she's said is true. She had a certain amount of money in her pocket, told the cabbie to drop her off in the middle of everything, lived on popcorn and yogurt for a while, squatted in the rehearsal building, etc. etc. But that doesn't mean she COULDN'T have called her father for help or that he wasn't willing to do so. She even said in "Madonna Rising" in 1998 that she refused to ask him for help. She wanted to do it on her own. It was her CHOICE. That doesn't mean she didn't suffer or wasn't hungry and sad. She's also told stories about how generous people were, how they took her in, fed her meals, paid for things, and she was even taken to Paris and treated like an up and coming star (though she didn't record anything and was bored, so she left...again, of her own volition).

Uh...THIS

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I think it's safe to say that the discussion of who should produce the next record is officially dead. This is how I feel reading this thread now: :abuse:

And it died before anyone else said whether they wanted Nile to make a comeback. I guess I'm alone on that one.

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