100% or don't bother.

[Barbie]

The only thing I really care about is good music. I have really tried to force myself to like MDNA, listened to it over and over, but, and it pains me to say this, I just don't like it.

I somewhat feel the same, aside from like 4 songs it's just really "blah" to me. And I never thought I would say that about a Madonna album.

[material_boy]

And a lot of "regular people" I've known over the years think Madonna hasn't had a hit since the early '90's. The numbers don't lie though. I don't think anybody is calling MDNA a GIGANTIC, super hit but it definitely held it's own and was a bigger "hit" than many other albums that ARE perceived as hits because they have "hit songs" attached to them. In 2012, MDNA sold the same amount yet was released after the fun album.....which is generally considered successful because they had many hits, acclaim, airplay and the general public seem to really have taken to them.

I fail to see how DWT was more groundbreaking than MDNA......MDNA was certainly more successful and was the longest, most physically demanding tour of her career. In the 8 years between GS and DWT the world of technology changed DRASTICALLY......maybe if she waits 8 years til she tours again, it will seem more "groundbreaking".

I also fail to see how calling the MDNA era a success is loony, but expecting a 55 year old woman, 30 years into her career to outsell all her competition and revolutionize the music industry with every album she releases and every tour she embarks on isn't loony.

I'm not sure anyone with a modicum of pop culture awareness would say she hasn't had a hit since the early 90s. Anecdotally, I watched the Superbowl performance in a room full of straight dudes -- many of them conservative, country music fans -- who recognized "Music" from being big when they were high school / college.

As for the definition of "hit" and "flop," I'll repeat what said in another thread: These are ambiguous terms in and of themselves, but culturally we've allowed them to be defined by music critics and media outlets. With that in mind, it's hard to justify the album as a hit. Google "mdna hit" (1.6 million results) and "mdna flop" (1.8 million results) and see for yourself how the album is perceived by the media. (The first result for "mdna hit" is "Album sales hit new low.")

I don't say this as a criticism of Madonna, this album, or of the fan community. I was simply saying that "MDNA" is considered a flop outside the fan community and that I enjoy it despite that, so I'm unconcerned if the next album performs similarly.

As far as DWT vs. MDNA, I did not mean to compare them commercially -- certainly, MDNA was more successful there.

I also wasn't comparing them technologically. Besides, technology arguably advanced more between 2001 and 2012 than it did between 1993 and 2001.

DWT was groundbreaking in artistic ambition, though. She set to tell a story -- from darkness to light, she said -- and that story is identifiable through the show: From the chaotic, violent punk set to the even more violent geisha set, then to the inflective cowgirl set and what appears to be acceptance in the latina set. Finally, it ended with a party, which is something of a celebration of self. When married with the costumes, the music, the lighting, the choreography -- she seemed to have a fully realized vision of a story she wanted to tell.

MDNA was enjoyable, but was more of a traditional concert than a semi-theatrical experience.

[Guest Xanthium]

Interesting that you think MDNA wasn't really theatrical. The first segment definitely was but maybe you were referring to the other segments? I thought the LAV/LS part was straight up theatre/cabaret. Gotta say I'm really enjoying your various posts material boy. I like your nuanced vocabulary and intelligence.

[HolidayGuy]

Aren't we used to Madonna not engaging in a heckuva lot of promotion for the album? Yes, she did some promo tours (most outside the USA) for some of the 1998-albums, but, really, when she does do something, it's an event (i.er. Super Bowl or an awards show).

I just want her to be inspired in making the music, and hope that it is a majestic work. The last couple of albums had some good stuff, but they were not GREAT overall, when all is said and done.

[Guest Xanthium]

I personally think MDNA, while a very good album, was a bit of a rush job but I always felt HC was a planned out type of record she wanted to make. It was an homage to disco and funk, the '70s and '80s, Prince and Soul Train. It was fun and lighthearted for the most part but that was its intent. I never got a phoned in vibe that other fans got. I think she truly wanted to collaborate with both Tims and enjoyed their sound.

[material_boy]

Interesting that you think MDNA wasn't really theatrical. The first segment definitely was but maybe you were referring to the other segments? I thought the LAV/LS part was straight up theatre/cabaret. Gotta say I'm really enjoying your various posts material boy. I like your nuanced vocabulary and intelligence.

Well, thank you! blushes

There were definitely elements of theater -- the costumes were great, the lighting was spectacular (some of the best lighting of any concert tour, period) and the sets were fantastic, especially the use of screens as something of an interactive set. The interaction of sets and screens was just genius -- and I don't use the word lightly.

But those elements existed for the audience to experience the concert, not necessarily for them to experience a story told through the concert.

I think the best example of this would be the cheerleader set. Fantastic performances, great choreography, excellent use of the screens to enhance the performance -- but ultimately, that set was an entertaining moment for the audience with no larger meaning behind it. (Or, if there was, I missed it. I'd be curious if people saw deeper meaning in MDNA.)

[Nonoka]

NONE. I'd rather take a movie. Or a GOOD album WITHOUT promo.

Well, true. MDNA did have a lot of good songs, heck it has some PERFECT songs on it, but on a whole, as an album, it's not that good. The music's all over the place. It's more like a random collection of songs than an album, which becomes even more apparent if you compare it to her past albums, even to HC.

[Guest Xanthium]

Well, thank you! blushes

There were definitely elements of theater -- the costumes were great, the lighting was spectacular (some of the best lighting of any concert tour, period) and the sets were fantastic, especially the use of screens as something of an interactive set. The interaction of sets and screens was just genius -- and I don't use the word lightly.

But those elements existed for the audience to experience the concert, not necessarily for them to experience a story told through the concert.

I think the best example of this would be the cheerleader set. Fantastic performances, great choreography, excellent use of the screens to enhance the performance -- but ultimately, that set was an entertaining moment for the audience with no larger meaning behind it. (Or, if there was, I missed it. I'd be curious if people saw deeper meaning in MDNA.)

I hear what you're saying. There was no overarching story throughout the entire concert. I kinda agree. But there was a story line in each segment, at least there was in the first and third segments. The fourth maybe, the second no.

[nimos]

I always felt HC was a planned out type of record she wanted to make. It was an homage to disco and funk, the '70s and '80s, Prince and Soul Train. It was fun and lighthearted for the most part but that was its intent. I never got a phoned in vibe that other fans got. I think she truly wanted to collaborate with both Tims and enjoyed their sound.

I agree. I think fans were a little hard on HC when it came out. In retrospect it had solid songs, good melodies, strong vocals, and some really funky tracks. It was also coherent and not too long, which suggests Madonna had a vision for the album. And now that Justin Timberlake has come back in 2013 with a huge hit album using essentially the same sound, I don't think the "HC's sound is so 2006" argument stands up any more. By contrast, I think most of the songs on MDNA have weak melodies, cringey lyrics, ear-bleeding production and thin vocals, and I don't think you can say that about any other Madonna album. As other people have said, I think you can hear that it was for the most part phoned-in and rushed. I have faith in Madonna that she will deliver again at some point in the future. I just hope it's sooner rather than later.

[Guest]

Interesting that you think MDNA wasn't really theatrical. The first segment definitely was but maybe you were referring to the other segments? I thought the LAV/LS part was straight up theatre/cabaret. Gotta say I'm really enjoying your various posts material boy. I like your nuanced vocabulary and intelligence.

Oooh yeah love some nuanced vocabulary.

*rubs crotch*

Nuanced vocab?

[Guest Xanthium]

I agree. I think fans were a little hard on HC when it came out. In retrospect it had solid songs, good melodies, strong vocals, and some really funky tracks. It was also coherent and not too long, which suggests Madonna had a vision for the album. And now that Justin Timberlake has come back in 2013 with a huge hit album using essentially the same sound, I don't think the "HC's sound is so 2006" argument stands up any more. By contrast, I think most of the songs on MDNA have weak melodies, cringey lyrics, ear-bleeding production and thin vocals, and I don't think you can say that about any other Madonna album. As other people have said, I think you can hear that it was for the most part phoned-in and rushed. I have faith in Madonna that she will deliver again at some point in the future. I just hope it's sooner rather than later.

Just listened to HC while showering and getting ready. I was bopping around, singing along, having a good ol' time. It's lots a fun, very cohesive. It's definitely a party album.

[neutrocks]

LOL to some fans saying Madonna hasn't put 100% into MDNA. My oh my! Of course, it's different times, but I remember in the 80's when she was all over radio, she did very little album promotion. The songs and videos simply did the work for her. And whenever we did see her do something, it was huge... such as an awards show. Interviews were quite slim as well. So I guess she didn't put 100% in back then either. LOL!

Madonna has always did what profited the most in her career. It's a fact some fans need to drum into their head. That said, it didn't mean she didn't care about the music or didn't put 100% in. I would think putting hundreds of hours into rehearsing for a tour, is far much more effort than any promotion like doing an interview, making a video, etc.

I get it. Some fans (including myself), would love to see her do more interviews, promotional concerts either on TV or in clubs and so on. But let's be realistic here. She isn't 25 or 35 anymore. The woman has a long established catalog. Unfortunately, her age plays a huge role in how the general public accepts her new work. Very few mainstream radio or media outlets are gonna play or feature her. Why spend so much money and time on something that will produce very little for Madonna when touring will.

Some of you are going to be greatly disappointed from this point on. Even if Madonna does more magazines, TV and promo tours, you still won't be happy unless it was 1985 again and she was getting the same attention and having the same sales and chart success. Can we say, "UNREALISTIC!!!"

[promise to try]

I won't.

I'll have Guy killed and Rocco held for ransom.

"PROMOTE YOUR ALBUM, BITCH."

me too! I really hope next time will be different for her.please.

[promise to try]

1998-2001,she promoted like I would love her to do again

[Nonoka]

LOL to some fans saying Madonna hasn't put 100% into MDNA. My oh my! Of course, it's different times, but I remember in the 80's when she was all over radio, she did very little album promotion. The songs and videos simply did the work for her. And whenever we did see her do something, it was huge... such as an awards show. Interviews were quite slim as well. So I guess she didn't put 100% in back then either. LOL!

Madonna has always did what profited the most in her career. It's a fact some fans need to drum into their head. That said, it didn't mean she didn't care about the music or didn't put 100% in. I would think putting hundreds of hours into rehearsing for a tour, is far much more effort than any promotion like doing an interview, making a video, etc.

I get it. Some fans (including myself), would love to see her do more interviews, promotional concerts either on TV or in clubs and so on. But let's be realistic here. She isn't 25 or 35 anymore. The woman has a long established catalog. Unfortunately, her age plays a huge role in how the general public accepts her new work. Very few mainstream radio or media outlets are gonna play or feature her. Why spend so much money and time on something that will produce very little for Madonna when touring will.

Some of you are going to be greatly disappointed from this point on. Even if Madonna does more magazines, TV and promo tours, you still won't be happy unless it was 1985 again and she was getting the same attention and having the same sales and chart success. Can we say, "UNREALISTIC!!!"

I found your meltdown last year very amusing.

[VogueMusic]

I don't know what y'all are smoking up in here (and again, the same MDNA debate over and over again)...

but I found the MDNA tour to have just as much conceptual and theatrical work as DWT or any of her previous tours (sans the more classic 'pop concert' style of S&S and WTG, and TVT).

I see just as much "darkness to light" in MDNA as I do in DWT...in fact, I personally think the "journey" is more clearly evident in MDNA than DWT. I never took DWT to even be that, unless I'm missing an interview where she says that (and has she even said 'every tour' is supposed to be "a journey from darkness to light"...? I only remember her saying that about Blond Ambition and MDNA).

But this "story arc" thing has never been literal in Madonna's shows...it's always been more so a creative thread that links the acts together, but I don't think it's meant to be completely linear...or literal.

It's just as much, if not more, evident in MDNA as in previous tours.

[Guest bluejean]

It's funny that everyone is praising Beyonce for releasing an album with no cover, music video, single or promo and still complaining that Madonna does no promo

[SkyHigh76]

Madonna has nothing to prove and she doesn't really "need" a big hit single ever again.Still,I would like for her to do some aggressive,traditional promotion for the next album.It was kinda sad watching MDNA top the charts on its first week of release,then quickly sink down the charts a week later.It's a superb album that deserved a better fate.

[Jazzy Jan]

It's funny that everyone is praising Beyonce for releasing an album with no cover, music video, single or promo and still complaining that Madonna does no promo

Great point.

[Guest]

It's funny that everyone is praising Beyonce for releasing an album with no cover, music video, single or promo and still complaining that Madonna does no promo

MY DADDY TAUGHT ME HOW TO LOVE MY HATERS.

[Rollap]

How could anyone seriously say that Madonna did not "care" about MDNA ? She had the biggest tour of the year which featured so many songs from the album. Seriously people, I did not even get to see her live and I still can see how much she loved the music by seeing the videos and footage online. I admit to wanting more promotion for purely selfish reasons, love seeing her perform and do interviews on shows and always love magazine layouts. Plus, I love the MDNA album and still think people get too hung up on certain songs they don't like.

Coz Orbit said it. She was interested but she lost interest near the end of the project (the album).

[Guest bluejean]

Coz Orbit said it. She was interested but she lost interest near the end of the project (the album).

If that's the case it maybe it was because of a tight deadline

[Supernatural]

Y'all will enjoy mdna more later on like what is happening now with hard candy.

[SkyHigh76]

Y'all will enjoy mdna more later on like what is happening now with hard candy.

I have noticed that HC is getting alot more love among fans,than it did when it was first released.I loved it from the very beginning

[Sloane]

DWT was groundbreaking in artistic ambition, though. She set to tell a story -- from darkness to light, she said -- and that story is identifiable through the show: From the chaotic, violent punk set to the even more violent geisha set, then to the inflective cowgirl set and what appears to be acceptance in the latina set. Finally, it ended with a party, which is something of a celebration of self. When married with the costumes, the music, the lighting, the choreography -- she seemed to have a fully realized vision of a story she wanted to tell.

She's been saying her tours are a journey from darkness to light since BAT. I cringe when she says it now.

[Starman]

She's been saying her tours are a journey from darkness to light since BAT. I cringe when she says it now.

Lol

[neutrocks]

Coz Orbit said it. She was interested but she lost interest near the end of the project (the album).

I don't recall him saying that. I know he commented how frustrated he was because he felt she had so many other things going on occupying her time. It limited the time they spent together in the studio which I'm sure he is comparing to the time they spent together on RAY OF LIGHT. But let's remember MDNA didn't include Orbit as much as he was on RAY OF LIGHT, so of course she had to divide up her time. It didn't mean she didn't put in the work and effort in making a great album. For anyone to say this album was rushed, is just plain ridiculous. She spent far less time on earlier albums than MDNA. An artists doesn't have to spend 6 months to a year in the studio producing a great record. In fact, some of the greatest records were created in far less time, some in a weeks time.

[Lucky guy]

After thinking about it a bit, I do agree that the music is more important, but I think that and the promotion are really part of the same thing. I can't imagine that Madonna would have a musical evolution like Ray of Light, and not want to give it the maximum exposure possible. Equally I can't see her producing something like Hard Candy, and giving it 5 videos and whoring it around every TV studio in the world. What happens before the album is produced is part of the same process as what happens afterwards, and the fucks given show on both sides.

So my answer is I'd rather have no album than a half-arsed album. And if the album isn't half-arsed, the promotion won't be either.

[VogueMusic]

Y'all will enjoy mdna more later on like what is happening now with hard candy.

Probably.

She's been saying her tours are a journey from darkness to light since BAT. I cringe when she says it now.

Honestly, I can only remember her saying that about BAT and MDNA. When has she said that about other tours...?

[VogueMusic]

Plus, who gets to say what is "half-arsed" or not? Who gets to really say what's "100%" or not? How do you know? Were you there with her?

Again, just because you don't like it, or it didn't become what you wanted, doesn't mean she didn't give her all.