karbatal Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 So i was remembering how interested Madonna was in Frida Kahlo. And then i remembered just how into Wallis Simpson she's been. Evita, Marlene, Marylin, Jane Mansfield... She was pretty obsessed with Matsumomo, that Geisha character. I recall i read that she did the 'Nothing really matters' video because she wanted to portray Matsumomo in the film 'Memoirs of a Geisha' (I always found the rumors stupid because.... like, Madonna isn't japanese. Madonna seems to be very interested in women that had everything against them but they had to fight their way, and they win. That's why she got in touch with Britney, she knew the problems that the girl was going to face (or was already facing). Are there more women in history she can be inspired???? Post yours. My ideas: 1. Joana of Castilla (called Juana La Loca (the crazy) because she was desperatly in love with Philipp. She was forced to get into a convent, and all because she was so in love! 2. Ana Boleyn (because she's British and surely Madonna knows her more than my beloved Joana of Castilla). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jan Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Helen Keller - truly an inspirational person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s@ndz Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 The women Madonna is fascinated with are much like her, misunderstood yet powerful. I think her Mansfield (maybe even Marilyn) fascination was purely aesthetics (or for the "look") unlike with Eva or Wallis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_On_Her Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 here I was thinking this was going to be a fabulous lesbian thread. fail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s@ndz Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 me, too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 ^ filth! This is a clever and serious thread. But it may be a dyke-oriented one too, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 So i was remembering how interested Madonna was in Frida Kahlo. And then i remembered just how into Wallis Simpson she's been. Evita, Marlene, Marylin, Jane Mansfield... She was pretty obsessed with Matsumomo, that Geisha character. I recall i read that she did the 'Nothing really matters' video because she wanted to portray Matsumomo in the film 'Memoirs of a Geisha' (I always found the rumors stupid because.... like, Madonna isn't japanese. Madonna seems to be very interested in women that had everything against them but they had to fight their way, and they win. That's why she got in touch with Britney, she knew the problems that the girl was going to face (or was already facing). Are there more women in history she can be inspired???? Post yours. My ideas: 1. Joana of Castilla (called Juana La Loca (the crazy) because she was desperatly in love with Philipp. She was forced to get into a convent, and all because she was so in love! 2. Ana Boleyn (because she's British and surely Madonna knows her more than my beloved Joana of Castilla). It's HATSUMOMO and ANNE. It is also TRUE that Madonna was inspired by Hatsomomo from the Memoirs of a Geisha story. You are the floppiest of all fans. This is from the ROL period so you can't even use the excuse of not liking her new stuff. Madonna used the Geisha as a metaphor for a person whom is both highly privileged and enslaved/held captive at once. The women Madonna is fascinated with are much like her, misunderstood yet powerful. I think her Mansfield (maybe even Marilyn) fascination was purely aesthetics (or for the "look") unlike with Eva or Wallis. Marilyn still fits that description. Highly intelligent and powerful while considered as nothing but a dumb blond. I don't think it was a pure superficial fascination because Madonna also used it to comment on the obsession with the physical. She saw Marilyn as an expression of everything desirable, just as she saw Britney as the same in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s@ndz Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Marilyn still fits that description. Highly intelligent and powerful while considered as nothing but a dumb blond. I don't think it was a pure superficial fascination because Madonna also used it to comment on the obsession with the physical. She saw Marilyn as an expression of everything desirable, just as she saw Britney as the same in 2003. Marilyn has her own "intelligence" which is actually expressed through her talent. (She was an astute comedian-- w/c requires high intelligence) However, as far as I know (and I could be very wrong), she was no paragon of intellect. Also, her power was, to me, merely incidental to her charisma/beauty/allure and star quality, and it does not emanate from her own person the way Madonna's power does. Madonna is inherently powerful, even if she parades like a bag lady all day. Marilyn was only powerful coz she was a star. And she was controlled by others. She wanted to be taken seriously especially by powerful or highly intelligent men (thus her choice of husbands or lovers), but this reveals that she does not feel herself powerful enough to stand on her own. She's her own victim. I totally agree though, that Madonna's obsession/fascination with her had something to do with Marilyn's overwhelming desirabilty and the power (and limitations) that it gave her. I think Madonna wanted to explore that (and break the stereotype of the dumb blond) in her work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narendra Sen Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 here I was thinking this was going to be a fabulous lesbian thread. fail! +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karbatal Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Marilyn has her own "intelligence" which is actually expressed through her talent. (She was an astute comedian-- w/c requires high intelligence) However, as far as I know (and I could be very wrong), she was no paragon of intellect. Also, her power was, to me, merely incidental to her charisma/beauty/allure and star quality, and it does not emanate from her own person the way Madonna's power does. Madonna is inherently powerful, even if she parades like a bag lady all day. Marilyn was only powerful coz she was a star. And she was controlled by others. She wanted to be taken seriously especially by powerful or highly intelligent men (thus her choice of husbands or lovers), but this reveals that she does not feel herself powerful enough to stand on her own. She's her own victim. I totally agree though, that Madonna's obsession/fascination with her had something to do with Marilyn's overwhelming desirabilty and the power (and limitations) that it gave her. I think Madonna wanted to explore that (and break the stereotype of the dumb blond) in her work. But Madonna is very interested in women that had LOADS of potential and were pushed down because they were women or they were poor or didn't belong... Just like Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Marilyn has her own "intelligence" which is actually expressed through her talent. (She was an astute comedian-- w/c requires high intelligence) However, as far as I know (and I could be very wrong), she was no paragon of intellect. Also, her power was, to me, merely incidental to her charisma/beauty/allure and star quality, and it does not emanate from her own person the way Madonna's power does. Madonna is inherently powerful, even if she parades like a bag lady all day. Marilyn was only powerful coz she was a star. And she was controlled by others. She wanted to be taken seriously especially by powerful or highly intelligent men (thus her choice of husbands or lovers), but this reveals that she does not feel herself powerful enough to stand on her own. She's her own victim. I totally agree though, that Madonna's obsession/fascination with her had something to do with Marilyn's overwhelming desirabilty and the power (and limitations) that it gave her. I think Madonna wanted to explore that (and break the stereotype of the dumb blond) in her work. You can't judge somebody who was the biggest (film0 star in the world in the fifties with somebody who was born at the time! Especially not when it comes to gender roles. Yes, Madonna played a huge part in changing gender roles but the world was changing too. Just because Marilyn didn't SHOW her intellect doesn't mean it wasn't there. Madonna doesn't often show her tender, vulnerable side but it's still there. When somebody is famous people always want to pigeo hole them and diminish them into a few personality traits. They are both very full individuals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Marilyn has her own "intelligence" which is actually expressed through her talent. (She was an astute comedian-- w/c requires high intelligence) However, as far as I know (and I could be very wrong), she was no paragon of intellect. Also, her power was, to me, merely incidental to her charisma/beauty/allure and star quality, and it does not emanate from her own person the way Madonna's power does. Madonna is inherently powerful, even if she parades like a bag lady all day. Marilyn was only powerful coz she was a star. And she was controlled by others. She wanted to be taken seriously especially by powerful or highly intelligent men (thus her choice of husbands or lovers), but this reveals that she does not feel herself powerful enough to stand on her own. She's her own victim. I totally agree though, that Madonna's obsession/fascination with her had something to do with Marilyn's overwhelming desirabilty and the power (and limitations) that it gave her. I think Madonna wanted to explore that (and break the stereotype of the dumb blond) in her work. totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCD Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 here I was thinking this was going to be a fabulous lesbian thread. fail! Someone else is also disappointed!: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pud Whacker Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Someone else is also disappointed!: I also thought this was going to be a V on V thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jan Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 You can't judge somebody who was the biggest (film0 star in the world in the fifties with somebody who was born at the time! Especially not when it comes to gender roles. Yes, Madonna played a huge part in changing gender roles but the world was changing too. Just because Marilyn didn't SHOW her intellect doesn't mean it wasn't there. Madonna doesn't often show her tender, vulnerable side but it's still there. When somebody is famous people always want to pigeo hole them and diminish them into a few personality traits. They are both very full individuals... So true. Agree with both comments regarding Marilyn's intellect and Madonna's vulnerable side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivy Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 Someone else is also disappointed!: I didn't realize that Sandra Bullock enjoyed the meat curtains? I always thought she was a sausage type of sheila? NO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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