Camille Paglia, TIME: Todays singers r simply aping feeble imitations of M

[realityisalways]

Camille Paglia, who many years ago dubbed Madonna “The Future of Feminists” continues to celebrate Madonna’s impact on the entertainment world by comparing age of Madonna’s reign to the dismal pop acts that have become mainstream – most notably comparing the controversy over Miley Cyrus’s MTV Video Music Award performance.

The Cyrus fiasco, however,

is symptomatic of the still heavy influence of Madonna,

who sprang to world fame in the 1980s with sophisticated videos that were suffused with

a daring European art-film eroticism and that were arguably among the best artworks of the decade

. Madonna’s provocations were

smolderingly sexy

because she had a good Catholic girl’s keen sense of transgression.

Subversion requires limits to violate.

Young performers will probably

never equal or surpass the genuine shocks delivered by the young Madonna

, as when she sensually rolled around in a lacy wedding dress and thumped her chest with the mic while singing “Like a Virgin” at the first MTV awards show in 1984. Her influence was

massive and profound,

on a

global scale

But more important, Madonna, a trained modern dancer, was originally inspired by work of tremendous quality — above all, Marlene Dietrich’s glamorous movie roles as a bisexual blond dominatrix and Bob Fosse’s stunningly forceful strip-club choreography for the 1972 film

Cabaret

, set in decadent Weimar-era Berlin.

Today’s aspiring singer

s, teethed on frenetically edited small-screen videos, rarely have direct contact with those superb precursors and

are simply aping feeble imitations of Madonna at 10th remove.

You can read Paglia’s full article at Time.com. Do you agree that we live in, what Paglia calls, “an artistically bankrupt music culture”? Sound off below!

Source 1

Original Source: TIME

[Mat.Guy]

I know Camille has turned back on Madonna several times and I always disagreed with her when she did, but I also can understand the reasons why she did. She's a pop music critic and I admire her.

I just think she needs to evolve her argument about feminism. Things changed, is not the 80's anymore. Madonna was a visionary since day one, she never thought herself as feminist, she always defended human rights and thats it. We don't need labels anymore, an agression against a human being is an agressiona against a human being.

I liked the article. I see no lies. And is not just for Miley, is for ALL pop artists nowadays.

[cruncher9123]

I agree that the aping feeble imitations of M are common; but, that just may mean that there may still be some steam left in the M-gravy-train. So, let's not give current pop stars a hard time - sometimes art takes a long time to develop.

[CMoody]

[CMoody]

[neutrocks]

I don't really get the big uproar over Miley's appeareance/performance at the VMA's. I'm not claiming I was impressed by it, but I also think Madonna probably would have given Miley a huge high five for what she did. For years, she's been packaged as this goody two-shoes Disney persona. I totally understand that she is wanting to do everything to break from that childhood persona and show she's got appeal beyond young girls. She's twenty years old. And it would be quite hypocritical for me as a Madonna fan to criticize Miley for being overtly sexual for her performance as Madonna has done it many times. I guess some will try to spin as if Madonna did it with more class. And maybe she did, but at the time Madonna was being overtly sexual, she got bashed by the press.

Anyway, I do agree Madonna has set this standard for female pop stars. Before her, most just stood in front of a mic and sang. Madonna brought a lot of vision and creativity to music. Before her, there were just a few such as David Bowie, Grace Jones and to some degree Deborah Harry. Madonna also pushed the boundaries with being sexual and showed she was a strong and powerful woman who couldn't be pushed around. Madonna has the luxury of not being packaged as a brand at the beginning. When she came along, so many people wanted to bottle her persona and try to reduplicate that. Very few have been able to do that successfully.

[Guest bluejean]

I don't really get the big uproar over Miley's appeareance/performance at the VMA's. I'm not claiming I was impressed by it, but I also think Madonna probably would have given Miley a huge high five for what she did. For years, she's been packaged as this goody two-shoes Disney persona. I totally understand that she is wanting to do everything to break from that childhood persona and show she's got appeal beyond young girls. She's twenty years old. And it would be quite hypocritical for me as a Madonna fan to criticize Miley for being overtly sexual for her performance as Madonna has done it many times. I guess some will try to spin as if Madonna did it with more class. And maybe she did, but at the time Madonna was being overtly sexual, she got bashed by the press.l

This is a good point however, I think the whole thing with Miley is that her performance was crap compared to the standard set by Madonna. She looked like some girl dancing drunk at a party. The only thing it had in common with Madonna was the provocativeness but you would never see Madonna dancing badly with teddy bears and the like. And that's the point the article makes, is that Madonna drew inspiration from great artists and created art itself. Miley is not artistic in anyway whatsoever.

It was the same deal when Janet flopped that tit out trying to pull a Madonna. But it was just an aimless publicity stunt. Madonna doesn't do aimless. Even the MTV Britney/Christina thing had some kind of underlying message. Madonna is an artist and that's always been what sets her apart.

[neutrocks]

This is a good point however, I think the whole thing with Miley is that her performance was crap compared to the standard set by Madonna. She looked like some girl dancing drunk at a party. The only thing it had in common with Madonna was the provocativeness but you would never see Madonna dancing badly with teddy bears and the like. And that's the point the article makes, is that Madonna drew inspiration from great artists and created art itself. Miley is not artistic in anyway whatsoever.

It was the same deal when Janet flopped that tit out trying to pull a Madonna. But it was just an aimless publicity stunt. Madonna doesn't do aimless. Even the MTV Britney/Christina thing had some kind of underlying message. Madonna is an artist and that's always been what sets her apart.

Regarding Miley, I honestly believe she went on stage to just have fun with no care in the world what anyone thought. In fact, I've been getting that vibe from her for sometime now. She seems to have a strong sense of whom she is and is determined to shed her Disney image. I wouldn't blame her.

The dancing... ah yeah, it was pretty ridiculous, but again, it's obvious she's trying to create this new wild girl persona apart from the Hannah Montana. If she went on VMA's in a proper and respectable manner, I don't think anyone would have gave her a second look. What better way to get people's attention after playing a Disney persona for a number years, by cutting off all her locks and dancing around wildly and ridiculous half naked. She seems to be going through the Young Drew Barrymore stage right now.

[VogueMusic]

But that's the thing, and Bluejean hit it on the head... there's nothing wrong with doing the 'good girl gone bad' shtick. Fine. Just put together a performance that is actually good, well choreographed and staged, etc.

I feel like so many seem to think that we're criticizing Miley for wanting to shed her past image. No, we're not. She wants to grow up and get rid of that...fine!

Just put together a better performance. Because the other night, it was a fucking mess...and no where near the level of what M or Brit have done in the past.

And if people think it's all the same thing, than my my how the bar has fallen.

[Michael.]

The thing I hate about the Miley performance isn't that it was "shocking" (It really wasnt to me) but that she looked fucking disgusting while trying to come off as sexy. Her dancing was terrible and that fucking thing she does with her tongue makes her look like a stroke victim. The whole thing was just cringeworthy not shocking. Rihanna could have done the exact same performance and actually make it good. Plus I hate when priviledged white people try be all ghetto and black.

[neutrocks]

But that's the thing, and Bluejean hit it on the head... there's nothing wrong with doing the 'good girl gone bad' shtick. Fine. Just put together a performance that is actually good, well choreographed and staged, etc.

I feel like so many seem to think that we're criticizing Miley for wanting to shed her past image. No, we're not. She wants to grow up and get rid of that...fine!

Just put together a better performance. Because the other night, it was a fucking mess...and no where near the level of what M or Brit have done in the past.

And if people think it's all the same thing, than my my how the bar has fallen.

But comparing Madonna and Miley is like comparing apples and oranges. Miley is far from the entertainer Madonna is. I guess at this point, I really had no expectations. I didn't see it as a "mess". I think that's quite subjective anyway. I know a lot of people who followed her as Hannah Montana were a bit put off by her stage antics. For me, I never was really interested in who she was as a child star. I also don't believe she's trying to appeal to those sort of people anymore. I also got the impression, that the whole performance was simply staged for Robin Thicke's benefit... to lead into his song. I honestly believe it was meant to come off wild and ridiculous. Those up and arms over it, are taking it too serious. Also, it never cross my mind to compare her performance to Madonna's. Two different artists.

[drunkbysix]

Regarding Miley, I honestly believe she went on stage to just have fun with no care in the world what anyone thought. In fact, I've been getting that vibe from her for sometime now. She seems to have a strong sense of whom she is and is determined to shed her Disney image. I wouldn't blame her.

The dancing... ah yeah, it was pretty ridiculous, but again, it's obvious she's trying to create this new wild girl persona apart from the Hannah Montana. If she went on VMA's in a proper and respectable manner, I don't think anyone would have gave her a second look. What better way to get people's attention after playing a Disney persona for a number years, by cutting off all her locks and dancing around wildly and ridiculous half naked. She seems to be going through the Young Drew Barrymore stage right now.

Miley's performance was a race thing, she's ruining what our culture represents, that's why it was an outcry. Has nothing to do with her. Disney persona.

[Mat.Guy]

It's not about class, is about content. Madonna has it.

[slam3000]

I have to say, I thought it was the most depressing spectacle of the evening. She was both artless and graceless and, tyoical of the 'reality' TV generation, the only thing she had to say was 'LOOK AT MEEEEE!'. For those in any doubt of that look no further than her crowing over the Tweets per second record during her performance. I think it's safe to assume that we're probably looking at the next Paris Hilton, rather than the new Madonna.

[VogueMusic]

I have to say, I thought it was the most depressing spectacle of the evening. She was both artless and graceless and, tyoical of the 'reality' TV generation, the only thing she had to say was 'LOOK AT MEEEEE!'. For those in any doubt of that look no further than her crowing over the Tweets per second record during her performance. I think it's safe to assume that we're probably looking at the next Paris Hilton, rather than the new Madonna.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!

:clap:

[VogueMusic]

But comparing Madonna and Miley is like comparing apples and oranges. Miley is far from the entertainer Madonna is. I guess at this point, I really had no expectations. I didn't see it as a "mess". I think that's quite subjective anyway. I know a lot of people who followed her as Hannah Montana were a bit put off by her stage antics. For me, I never was really interested in who she was as a child star. I also don't believe she's trying to appeal to those sort of people anymore. I also got the impression, that the whole performance was simply staged for Robin Thicke's benefit... to lead into his song. I honestly believe it was meant to come off wild and ridiculous. Those up and arms over it, are taking it too serious. Also, it never cross my mind to compare her performance to Madonna's. Two different artists.

Nowhere did I say Miley is anywhere on Madonna's level...and that was not even the point. The point I was making is that her "performance" was a fucking mess. And yes, I can say 'mess' because that is what it was.

But by bringing in Madonna and Britney as reference points for outrageous sexuality used in VMA performances...and I was basically responding to what the media has been doing by making the comparisons... Miley's was a mess - in terms of concept, staging, choreography, etc.

I could care less about her previous Disney image...I could care less about the Robin Thicke aspect.

As I said before, I have no problem with the crazy party girl twerkin' schtick. I don't. But If you are going to do it, make it something of quality.

[HolidayGuy]

It's very true that a lot of the wannabes and female pop stars simply dress or act a certain way for the heck of it, with nothing behind it. Why, among many other reasons, it's Madonna and The Rest.

I like Destiny (S)Miley, but moreso when she's not trying too hard- i.e. the whole sticking the tongue out looks kinda silly.

[Chimera]

She did look ridiculous with her performance, but i wonder if she would have had all the coverage and be proclaimed "the queen" of that VMA's had she delivered some kind of ehhh JLO+Pitbull sexy stuff which for some had more "class" but didn't take JLO to be so talked about like Miley did.

I think it worked well for Miley to do the ridiculous shock value stuff...which might have been shocking just because if was ridiculous ...others surely found it funny, sarcastic or whatever the mindset to read it...artists tend to pull some shock value here and there...some found Gaga's gore disgusting but others praised it to the top...some found Mick Jagger's tongue ridiculous but others found it cool...and well, surely Madonna's Like a virgin ...etc etc...it's all in the eye of the beholder...and surely for some it works and for others it doesn't (hello Miss Jackson, Adam Lambert) but it's the risks some take while trying to stand out from the crowd...however, if you don't bring on the fucking music then it just won't transcend or sustain a career(hello Gaga)

[Ciccone's Cheeks]

[Kurt420]

J. Lo in those pics doesn't look awkward slutting it up with Pitbull, it seems quite natural. Miley looked completely forced and awkward. It was like watching one of those moments I'm sure we all had at one point as teenagers where we are ALONE, in our rooms, listening to music and just have a freak out....one of those moments that NOBODY should really see....lol.....that's what I felt like I was watching when I saw the Miley performance.

[Pabl0114]

It was a mess period and she got what she wanted, attention. What's worst than being talked about, not being talked about (*cough* gaga)

[Jazzy Jan]

Miley's performance was not great and I am not suggesting that. However, it was hilarious to watch and she was having fun. She is now a 20 year old adult and can basically do what she wants. This was not the Nickelodeon awards which are aimed at children. It is the VMA's. Also Brooke Shields has lost me a bit trashing Miley. She has a short memory span. She played a child prostitute in Pretty baby, starred in the "controversial for it's time" movie Blue Lagoon and did raunchy jeans adverts for Calvin Klein when she was a teenager. I can understand people not liking her performance and yes it was cringe worthy. But I think the mass hysteria about it in the media is so over the top.

[lasky]

the website can only display the top of the title and not the rest of the article.... anyone happen to have the same view too?

[5iVe Elements]

Haha Miley's perf prompted Oxford to make twerk an official word. Take that!

[realityisalways]

the website can only display the top of the title and not the rest of the article.... anyone happen to have the same view too?

No, it's displaying it completely for me, here's a ctrl + v (and I don't mean Gaga):

Pop Culture

Camille Paglia: Miley, Go Back to School

Cyrus’ derivative stunt reveals an artistically bankrupt music culture

By Camille PagliaAug. 27, 2013638 Comments

• • inShare14
• Read Later

LUCAS JACKSON / REUTERS

Miley Cyrus and Robin Thicke perform "Blurred Lines" during the 2013 MTV Video Music Awards in New York City on Aug. 25, 2013

• Email
• Print
• Share
• Comment

Follow @TIMEIdeas

“Disgusting!” “Raunchy!” “Desperate!” So went the scathing reviews that poured in after once wholesome Disney star Miley Cyrus’ recent bizarre performance at the MTV Video Music Awards.

Bopping up and down the catwalk in hair-twist devil’s horns and a flesh-colored latex bikini, Cyrus lewdly wagged her tongue, tickled her crotch with a foam finger, shook her buttocks in the air and spanked a 6-ft. 7-in. black burlesque queen.

Most of the media backlash focused on Cyrus’ crass opportunism, which stole the show from Lady Gaga, normally no slouch in the foot-stamping look-at-me department. But the real scandal was how atrocious Cyrus’ performance was in artistic terms. She was clumsy, flat-footed and cringingly unsexy, an effect heightened by her manic grin.

How could American pop have gotten this bad? Sex has been a crucial component of the entertainment industry since the seductive vamps of silent film and the bawdy big mamas of roadhouse blues. Elvis Presley, James Brown and Mick Jagger brought sizzling heat to rock, soul and funk music, which in turn spawned the controversial raw explicitness of urban hip-hop.

(MORE: Miley Cyrus Really Is the Girl Next Door: Predictable and Boring)

The Cyrus fiasco, however, is symptomatic of the still heavy influence of Madonna, who sprang to world fame in the 1980s with sophisticated videos that were suffused with a daring European art-film eroticism and that were arguably among the best artworks of the decade. Madonna’s provocations were smolderingly sexy because she had a good Catholic girl’s keen sense of transgression. Subversion requires limits to violate.

Young performers will probably never equal or surpass the genuine shocks delivered by the young Madonna, as when she sensually rolled around in a lacy wedding dress and thumped her chest with the mic while singing “Like a Virgin” at the first MTV awards show in 1984. Her influence was massive and profound, on a global scale.

But more important, Madonna, a trained modern dancer, was originally inspired by work of tremendous quality — above all, Marlene Dietrich’s glamorous movie roles as a bisexual blond dominatrix and Bob Fosse’s stunningly forceful strip-club choreography for the 1972 film Cabaret, set in decadent Weimar-era Berlin. Today’s aspiring singers, teethed on frenetically edited small-screen videos, rarely have direct contact with those superb precursors and are simply aping feeble imitations of Madonna at 10th remove.

Pop is suffering from the same malady as the art world, which is stuck on the tired old rubric that shock automatically confers value. But those once powerful avant-garde gestures have lost their relevance in our diffuse and technology-saturated era, when there is no longer an ossified high-culture establishment to rebel against. On the contrary, the fine arts are alarmingly distant or marginal to most young people today.

(MORE: 4 Reasons You’re Still Hearing About Miley Cyrus’ VMAs Performance)

Unfortunately, the media spotlight so cheaply won by Cyrus will inevitably spur repeats of her silly stunt, by her and others. Image and profile now rule the music industry. At a time when profits are coming far more from touring than from CD sales, performers are being hammered too early into a marketable formula for cavernous sports venues. With their massive computerized lighting and special-effects systems, arena shows make improvisation impossible and stifle the natural rapport with the audience that performers once had in vaudeville houses and jazz clubs. There is neither time nor space to develop emotional depth or creative skills.

Pop is an artistic tradition that deserves as much respect as any other. Its lineage stretches back to 17th century Appalachian folk songs and African-American blues, all of which can still be heard vibrating in the lyrics and chord structure of contemporary music. But our most visible young performers, consumed with packaging and attitude, seem to have little sense of that thrilling continuity and therefore no confidence in how it can define and sustain their artistic identities over the course of a career.

What was perhaps most embarrassing about Miley Cyrus’ dismal gig was its cutesy toys — a giant teddy bear from which she popped to cavort with a dance troupe in fuzzy bear drag. Intended to satirize her Disney past, it signaled instead the childishness of Cyrus’ notion of sexuality, which has become simply a cartoonish gimmick to disguise a lack of professional focus. Sex isn’t just exposed flesh and crude gestures. The greatest performers, like Madonna in a canonical video such as “Vogue,” know how to use suggestion and mystery to project the magic of sexual allure. Miley, go back to school!

Read more: http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/27/pops-drop-from-madonna-to-miley/#ixzz2dLd7Wo7L

[Raider of the lost Ark]

It has been pointed out before, the problem with Mileys performance is that it looks completely inauthentic. And this has nothing to do with the fact that she was the cute, innocent Hannah Montana character that she wants to get rid off now. No, it's rather that the whole twerking and tongue thing looked like she has absolutely no idea what she was doing at all. Or the whole thing was her idea of what "sexy" is supposed to look like. In result it was a sexless and therefore dull performance and it made it all very uncomfortable to watch. It was flat out mechanic and lacked of emotions. If she tried to seduce someone she failed big time. I guess a lot of people were rather, ewww back off bitch, don't get anywhere closer. Any stripper in a redneck village is more seducing than she was.

[lysergs5555]

I liked her performane, she doesn't give a! ) just had a thought, maybe madonna's fans should be called the SINNERS

[XXL]

It's not about class, is about content. Madonna has it.

Love Camille's points in this article

Madonna doesn't come from a factory, that's the whole point

Take her even at her most controversial with the SEX book. It was never about "famous global singer sheds all clothes" and makes loads of money from it (which she also did of course). That book was all about cultural politics. Had she been a Miley, Cristina or Britney, she woudn't have lasted this long. And outlasted 90% of her 80s peers (with the exception of U2, Depeche Mode, Springsteen) and everyone else who followed in the 90s and 2000s

Some of these girls think I'm gonna wear a black Latex suit and an S&M mask or shoot fireworks/cream off my tits and that's me being Erotica or BLOND AMBITION Madonna, controversy. No it's not. But most of all Madonna is a serious musician which you can't say for most other pop acts, male or female

[Mat.Guy]

Love Camille's points in this article

Madonna doesn't come from a factory, that's the whole point

Take her even at her most controversial with the SEX book. It was never about "famous global singer sheds all clothes" and makes loads of money from it (which she also did of course). That book was all about cultural politics. Had she been a Miley, Cristina or Britney, she woudn't have lasted this long. And outlasted 90% of her 80s peers (with the exception of U2, Depeche Mode, Springsteen) and everyone else who followed in the 90s and 2000s

Some of these girls think I'm gonna wear a black Latex suit and an S&M mask or shoot fireworks/cream off my tits and that's me being Erotica or BLOND AMBITION Madonna, controversy. No it's not. But most of all Madonna is a serious musician which you can't say for most other pop acts, male or female

:clap:

[Camacho]

GRITTY and RAW