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Pitch-adjusting on MDNA?


Bill

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100+ people! Well, if that's the case...

Please.

Madonna doesn't pitch-correct her voice? Of course she does. They Auto-Tune everything today. Everything. And comping has nothing to do with pitch correction.

As far as sleepiguy's YouTube video, sure there are a few moments that sound a little off (maybe too slow), but there is absolutely no way the album version of GGW is her real voice when compared to the slowed down version, which sounds exactly like what we all know M's raw voice to sound like. Not to mention, her voice is even deeper/lower now than it was 30 years ago. Just watch/listen to any live recording of her recently where she's actually singing live. It's called aging. Nobody's disputing that Madonna's a gifted vocalist. Of course she has a girly voice ("Cry Baby," "Santa Baby," "Bye Bye Baby," basically every song with the word "Baby" in it!), but that vocal quality is NOT the same thing we're hearing on HU, GGW, TUTR, "Revolver." People believe what they want to believe, so instead of claiming you've spoken to "100+" of Madonna's engineers, show us the receipts.

And let us not forget "Be Careful," which was indisputably pitched DOWN.

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Bill, that's crazy talk. I usually agree with you on most things. It's one thing if Madonna wants to use her voice differently, but it's another to artificially alter it, which I'm convinced was also done on HU, which is why it took me so long to warm up to that song.

This makes no sense to me. "Rescue Me," "Deeper and Deeper," "Vogue," "Get Together," "Jump," etc. etc. etc. I could go on all day with examples of dance songs with deeper/lower vocals. Let's not pretend that Madonna isn't obsessed with sounding/looking younger.

Bill, that's crazy talk. I usually agree with you on most things. It's one thing if Madonna wants to use her voice differently, but it's another to artificially alter it, which I'm convinced was also done on HU, which is why it took me so long to warm up to that song.

This makes no sense to me. "Rescue Me," "Deeper and Deeper," "Vogue," "Get Together," "Jump," etc. etc. etc. I could go on all day with examples of dance songs with deeper/lower vocals. Let's not pretend that Madonna isn't obsessed with sounding/looking younger.

I just think that, in the video I originally posted, even though her voice may sound more "Madonna-like", it also sounds kinda bland.

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I remember the creator of this video (sleepiguy on youtube) from the Absolute Madonna forum. He was your typical hypercritical fan, didn't seem to be enjoying much of her newer work from when I was last there. Hardly qualified to give an factual information as to whether or not these songs were pitched.

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100+ people! Well, if that's the case...

Please.

Madonna doesn't pitch-correct her voice? Of course she does. They Auto-Tune everything today. Everything. And comping has nothing to do with pitch correction.

As far as sleepiguy's YouTube video, sure there are a few moments that sound a little off (maybe too slow), but there is absolutely no way the album version of GGW is her real voice when compared to the slowed down version, which sounds exactly like what we all know M's raw voice to sound like. Not to mention, her voice is even deeper/lower now than it was 30 years ago. Just watch/listen to any live recording of her recently where she's actually singing live. It's called aging. Nobody's disputing that Madonna's a gifted vocalist. Of course she has a girly voice ("Cry Baby," "Santa Baby," "Bye Bye Baby," basically every song with the word "Baby" in it!), but that vocal quality is NOT the same thing we're hearing on HU, GGW, TUTR, "Revolver." People believe what they want to believe, so instead of claiming you've spoken to "100+" of Madonna's engineers, show us the receipts.

And let us not forget "Be Careful," which was indisputably pitched DOWN.

We're not talking about live, we're talking about studio vocals in a studio environment over however many tries and takes - and you also mentioned LAV when it's quite clear from the rehearsal footage I posted above, she COULD sing live in that same high pitched girlie voice.

Go and actually read thebeatswithin blog or read his published articles. He HAS spoken to these people and done his research.

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Indeed I did and from several reliable sources. I've spoken to 100+ people who have worked with Madonna in the studio, including many studio engineers - the guys in charge of recording her vocals and vocal effects, etc - and they all say the same thing - Madonna does not pitch correct her voice! Again, it's yet another famous Madonna myth that her vocals were pitched for the LAV album, but this just isn't true. There are countless examples of live and studio vocals like the ones above, where we can clearly hear the range and pitch she's clearly capable of singing in - but doesn't necessarily always chose to for various reasons (dancing/sustaining it for multiple nights over a long ass tour). I mean, you can even hear it in her speaking voice, she has a kind of girlish voice still to this day. Madonna's also not a fan of over-comping (editing vocals together from many different takes) her vocal performances for her recordings, as many artists do to the extent where every other word is a comp - in fact, she has even scrapped "perfect" vocals in favour of the rough demo vocals on some songs 'cos she preferred the "feel" of them. Whereas some people chose to spend hours in the studio working on the vocals, M will often just sing it straight through 2 or 3 times and then they pick the best one. As Guy Sigsworth described it, it was like Al Pacino acting a scene out for 3 different takes and then picking the best one - they're all great, you just pick the one that feels the best with the most emotion. (I'm paraphrasing here) Don't get me wrong, she may do a little comping here and there, but Madonna's a seriously talented and gifted vocalist - don't you guys still know that? ;) Those slowed down MDNA tracks are NOT her original vocal and are obviously slowed down, and sound un-natural.

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This makes no sense to me. "Rescue Me," "Deeper and Deeper," "Vogue," "Get Together," "Jump," etc. etc. etc. I could go on all day with examples of dance songs with deeper/lower vocals. Let's not pretend that Madonna isn't obsessed with sounding/looking younger.

You may not agree, but that's how a lot of dance producers think. I didn't make it up. I heard Calvin Harris say this in an interview. He said he works mostly with female singers because he needs higher vocals to contrast with the deeper bass. You have this idea Madonna is obsessed with looking younger and reject everything that doesn't fit your pre-determined theory.

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Indeed I did and from several reliable sources. I've spoken to 100+ people who have worked with Madonna in the studio, including many studio engineers - the guys in charge of recording her vocals and vocal effects, etc - and they all say the same thing - Madonna does not pitch correct her voice! Again, it's yet another famous Madonna myth that her vocals were pitched for the LAV album, but this just isn't true. There are countless examples of live and studio vocals like the ones above, where we can clearly hear the range and pitch she's clearly capable of singing in - but doesn't necessarily always chose to for various reasons (dancing/sustaining it for multiple nights over a long ass tour). I mean, you can even hear it in her speaking voice, she has a kind of girlish voice still to this day. Madonna's also not a fan of over-comping (editing vocals together from many different takes) her vocal performances for her recordings, as many artists do to the extent where every other word is a comp - in fact, she has even scrapped "perfect" vocals in favour of the rough demo vocals on some songs 'cos she preferred the "feel" of them. Whereas some people chose to spend hours in the studio working on the vocals, M will often just sing it straight through 2 or 3 times and then they pick the best one. As Guy Sigsworth described it, it was like Al Pacino acting a scene out for 3 different takes and then picking the best one - they're all great, you just pick the one that feels the best with the most emotion. (I'm paraphrasing here) Don't get me wrong, she may do a little comping here and there, but Madonna's a seriously talented and gifted vocalist - don't you guys still know that? ;) Those slowed down MDNA tracks are NOT her original vocal and are obviously slowed down, and sound un-natural.

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Yes, so many great posts in this thread -- beatswithin, Carta, thank you!!

Madonna doesn't use pitch correction on the whole. Let's face it. She certainly doesn't use pitch shifting in the dominant vocal melody either. She does use it to create a 'second voice' thought which works to great effect in many songs.

Oh, I agree, it's lovely when she's using it to harmonize with herself. "Intervention" is a great example of that -- her voice is always lovely (period), but you can hear in that song there's a gentle effect on the background harmonies in spots. Beautiful.

And I will also say that it's only apparent in really obvious situations where they are going for a particular effect -- e.g., "Nobody's Perfect" ... "Impressive Instant" ... "Nobody Knows Me" ... and yes, "Love Spent" it is particularly noticeable. I don't detect anything on the Ray of Light tracks.

And yes, the whole "take it down a semi-tone" lyric pops up in "I Don't Give A" because she clearly chooses to start in a lower key for the live versions sometimes simply due to the rigors of performing live. It's not that she's incapable of producing those vocals in a controlled studio environment. It's why those 'studio demos of tour versions' of "Vogue" always sound so WEIRD -- they're using the original vocal take from 1990 and laying it over an arrangement which has consciously been prepared in a slightly lower key -- so the notes of her voice, when filtered through pitch correction, sound right for a moment, until you get to half-steps and natural slides in tone, and it starts to sound a little "off." If all of her work was woefully overly pitch corrected like that, it would sound just as UNnatural as those "studio" demos of tour versions of "Vogue."

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Thanks for this. So tired of people trying to insinuate that Madonna needs help to sing.. It is just another way to try to discredit her as a vocalist. She is a wonderful singer and deserves more respect than that.

:thumbsup:

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Vocalism - thebeatswithin is 100% legitimate. As Kim suggested, you really should go and read his blog, and check out his article on "Everybody" in Record Collector, especially before you discredit his statements.

Why would Nile Rodgers lie and make up an eleborate story about how he tried to get Madonna to sing in a different key but she refused? Is it really so hard for people to believe those who have actually worked with Madonna in the studio? It's the whole "I don't care what Madonna's former collaborators say, I personally think they're ALL lying and I don't believe she has much to do with the writing of her songs!" debacle again.

Incidentally, it always annoys me when radio stations speed up songs (almost all of them do it, so that they can fit in more paid advertisement spots). Remember when that French station played "Die Another Day" early and it was painfully obvious that they'd sped it up by about 8%? Anyway, I digress.

Peter - thanks for the comment :thumbsup:

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Vocalism - thebeatswithin is 100% legitimate. As Kim suggested, you really should go and read his blog, and check out his article on "Everybody" in Record Collector, especially before you discredit his statements.

Why would Nile Rodgers lie and make up an eleborate story about how he tried to get Madonna to sing in a different key but she refused? Is it really so hard for people to believe those who have actually worked with Madonna in the studio? It's the whole "I don't care what Madonna's former collaborators say, I personally think they're ALL lying and I don't believe she has much to do with the writing of her songs!" debacle again.

Incidentally, it always annoys me when radio stations speed up songs (almost all of them do it, so that they can fit in more paid advertisement spots). Remember when that French station played "Die Another Day" early and it was painfully obvious that they'd sped it up by about 8%? Anyway, I digress.

Peter - thanks for the comment :thumbsup:

Spot on Carta. It is bad enough having to continually put up with ill-informed comments about Madonna's ability as a singer on articles in the mainstream press. To read the same garbage from her own fans is quite frustrating, especially considering the fact that the people she has worked with ( who are all respected producers and musicians in their own right ) have all denied the false claims. Also, the fact that Thebeatswithin has even posted several times about this before on this very forum. Nile Rogers is not going to lie about his work with Madonna. Why do people doubt him thus portraying him as untruthful ?

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