thebeatswithin Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Actually I'm sure Beatswithin heard from the horses mouth that this was a fallacy. Indeed I did and from several reliable sources. I've spoken to 100+ people who have worked with Madonna in the studio, including many studio engineers - the guys in charge of recording her vocals and vocal effects, etc - and they all say the same thing - Madonna does not pitch correct her voice! Again, it's yet another famous Madonna myth that her vocals were pitched for the LAV album, but this just isn't true. There are countless examples of live and studio vocals like the ones above, where we can clearly hear the range and pitch she's clearly capable of singing in - but doesn't necessarily always chose to for various reasons (dancing/sustaining it for multiple nights over a long ass tour). I mean, you can even hear it in her speaking voice, she has a kind of girlish voice still to this day. Madonna's also not a fan of over-comping (editing vocals together from many different takes) her vocal performances for her recordings, as many artists do to the extent where every other word is a comp - in fact, she has even scrapped "perfect" vocals in favour of the rough demo vocals on some songs 'cos she preferred the "feel" of them. Whereas some people chose to spend hours in the studio working on the vocals, M will often just sing it straight through 2 or 3 times and then they pick the best one. As Guy Sigsworth described it, it was like Al Pacino acting a scene out for 3 different takes and then picking the best one - they're all great, you just pick the one that feels the best with the most emotion. (I'm paraphrasing here) Don't get me wrong, she may do a little comping here and there, but Madonna's a seriously talented and gifted vocalist - don't you guys still know that? Those slowed down MDNA tracks are NOT her original vocal and are obviously slowed down, and sound un-natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 No. This isn't the original (unedited) recording. Somebody has filtered the layers from the record leaving only the vocal layers. That's why you still hear the processed vocals etc, etc. Madonna actually doesn't really use autotune but instead utilises specific recording conditions and effects. You even hear her sing 'sharp' sometimes. She's very clever leaving her breath on songs at times and not making herself sound plastic. Considering its electronic music her vocal texture stays relatively intact. William Orbit used melodyne on his tracks on MDNA, it's very obvious to my ear. I don't really hear it on any of the other songs nor Hard Candy but they probably used it minimally without it being obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Indeed I did and from several reliable sources. I've spoken to 100+ people who have worked with Madonna in the studio, including many studio engineers - the guys in charge of recording her vocals and vocal effects, etc - and they all say the same thing - Madonna does not pitch correct her voice! Again, it's yet another famous Madonna myth that her vocals were pitched for the LAV album, but this just isn't true. There are countless examples of live and studio vocals like the ones above, where we can clearly hear the range and pitch she's clearly capable of singing in - but doesn't necessarily always chose to for various reasons (dancing/sustaining it for multiple nights over a long ass tour). I mean, you can even hear it in her voice, she has a kind of girlish voice still to this day. Madonna's also not a fan of over-comping (editing vocals together from many different takes) her vocal performances for her recordings, as many artists do to the extent where every other word is a comp - in fact, she has even scrapped "perfect" vocals in favour of the rough demo vocals on some songs 'cos she preferred the "feel" of them. Whereas some people chose to spend hours in the studio working on the vocals, M will often just sing it straight through 2 or 3 times and then they pick the best one. As Guy Sigsworth described it, it was like Al Pacino acting a scene out for 3 different takes and then picking the best one - they're all great, you just pick the one that feels the best with the most emotion. (I'm paraphrasing here) Don't get me wrong, she may do a little comping here and there, but Madonna's a seriously talented and gifted vocalist - don't you guys still know that? Those slowed down MDNA tracks are NOT her original vocal and are obviously slowed down, and sound un-natural. Yes, that's exactly what I was saying! That's how she maintains her intimate sounding voice. You sometimes hear her breath, quivers, pitch drops etc and it's all so beautiful. Compare it to a Kylie record which sounds so...clinical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Indeed I did and from several reliable sources. I've spoken to 100+ people who have worked with Madonna in the studio, including many studio engineers - the guys in charge of recording her vocals and vocal effects, etc - and they all say the same thing - Madonna does not pitch correct her voice! Again, it's yet another famous Madonna myth that her vocals were pitched for the LAV album, but this just isn't true. There are countless examples of live and studio vocals like the ones above, where we can clearly hear the range and pitch she's clearly capable of singing in - but doesn't necessarily always chose to for various reasons (dancing/sustaining it for multiple nights over a long ass tour). I mean, you can even hear it in her voice, she has a kind of girlish voice still to this day. Madonna's also not a fan of over-comping (editing vocals together from many different takes) her vocal performances for her recordings, as many artists do to the extent where every other word is a comp - in fact, she has even scrapped "perfect" vocals in favour of the rough demo vocals on some songs 'cos she preferred the "feel" of them. Whereas some people chose to spend hours in the studio working on the vocals, M will often just sing it straight through 2 or 3 times and then they pick the best one. As Guy Sigsworth described it, it was like Al Pacino acting a scene out for 3 different takes and then picking the best one - they're all great, you just pick the one that feels the best with the most emotion. (I'm paraphrasing here) Don't get me wrong, she may do a little comping here and there, but Madonna's a seriously talented and gifted vocalist - don't you guys still know that? Those slowed down MDNA tracks are NOT her original vocal and are obviously slowed down, and sound un-natural. Did you speak to Orbit about MDNA? I really think he used it. I don't find it hard to believe she didn't use pitch correction on other albums. They definitely used on the S&S live album but that's different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SecretGarden Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Yeah, I find it hard to believe she's never used pitch correction, even though I don't think her vocals were necessarily pitched up but when I listen to a song like Ray of Light for example, I can just hear the correction being used. It's probably why she's never been able to replicate the vocal live (or even come close for that matter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Which tracks in particular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 William Orbit used melodyne on his tracks on MDNA, it's very obvious to my ear. I don't really hear it on any of the other songs nor Hard Candy but they probably used it minimally without it being obvious. It's really obvious on Love Spent. Especially the so-called acoustic version - the contrast between the electronic voice and raw instruments, but it's obviously just the effect they were after. But no I don't believe for a second they've pitched up ggw, tutr etc. That video sounds ridiculous. Remember those Virgin Tour rehearsal tracks that leaked? She had that exact same lil girlie album voice. The urban myth that they pitch corrected her early albums is so annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Yeah, I find it hard to believe she's never used pitch correction, even though I don't think her vocals were necessarily pitched up but when I listen to a song like Ray of Light for example, I can just hear the correction being used. It's probably why she's never been able to replicate the vocal live (or even come close for that matter). Really? If Madonna sat on a stool and didn't dance she could definitely replicate the album version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 It's really obvious on Love Spent. Especially the so-called acoustic version - the contrast between the electronic voice and raw instruments, but it's obviously just the effect they were after. But no I don't believe for a second they've pitched up ggw, tutr etc. That video sounds ridiculous. Remember those Virgin Tour rehearsal tracks that leaked? She had that exact same lil girlie album voice. The urban myth that they pitch corrected her early albums is so annoying. Yes Love spent is the only track where it's particularly noticeable to me too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Yeah, I find it hard to believe she's never used pitch correction, even though I don't think her vocals were necessarily pitched up but when I listen to a song like Ray of Light for example, I can just hear the correction being used. It's probably why she's never been able to replicate the vocal live (or even come close for that matter).I cannot hear pitch correction on Ray of Light.I'm talking Orbit MDNA stuff especially Love Spent. I hear melodyne use on that track. I am familiar with the software, have used it extensively and recognise when pitch correction is noticable. Refer to Glee for blatant examples. Pitch correction isn't noticable when done well. The idea is the singer hits the note close enough in the first place so any pitch correction is very minimal and undetectable. This obviously isn't always the case although the trend of using melodyne blatantly seems to be going out of fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Madonna doesn't use pitch correction on the whole. Let's face it. She certainly doesn't use pitch shifting in the dominant vocal melody either. She does use it to create a 'second voice' thought which works to great effect in many songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Fukujima Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 interesting thread with interesting posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Really? If Madonna sat on a stool and didn't dance she could definitely replicate the album version. Plus, she DID get it right on Oprah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bluejean Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Madonna doesn't use pitch correction on the whole. Let's face it. She certainly doesn't use pitch shifting in the dominant vocal melody either. She does use it to create a 'second voice' thought which works to great effect in many songs. I'll tell you who does use alot of melodyne is Lady Gaga. It's all through The Edge of Glory for example. Pathetic... Ca! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agclef Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 OMG, I am so sick of this conversation - over 30 years into her career, let's give it MAJOR REST, shall we! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Where did the LAV pitch rumor come from anyway? Was it because her voice was described as "minnie mouse on helium"? or was it cause the remixes of lav and material girl were sped up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted August 23, 2013 Author Share Posted August 23, 2013 Where did the LAV pitch rumor come from anyway? Was it because her voice was described as "minnie mouse on helium"? or was it cause the remixes of lav and material girl were sped up? This video was the first time I heard of it, a few years ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL51W7OB4KQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carta Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Thebeatswithin has spoken to literally HUNDREDS of people who have worked with Madonna in the studio (as he stated clearly above), so if he says that according to them, Madonna doesn't use pitch correction, then who are we to argue? There was an article around the time of 4M where an engineer said that he had corrected a few notes sung by both Madonna and JT, but he said that they were few and so insignigicant that he wouldn't even be able to identify them himself in the final version. In any case, there's a massive difference between changing a note here and there and pitch correcting an entire phrase/bar. As for LAV, Nile Rodgers said that the reason why LAV and MG were sung in such a high register is because that's the way Madonna learnt to sing them. He wanted to change the key, because he thought it was way too high, but Madonna refused because she didn't want to have to re-learn either song. No "sped up vocals" scandal here, folks. Beatswithin - welcome back! Can't wait to see a new article/interview!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaything Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 I believe her vocals were definitely pitched for GGW. I really like what the guy on youtube did and prefer the unpitched version, her voice sounds so sexy and improves the song IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzy Jan Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Indeed I did and from several reliable sources. I've spoken to 100+ people who have worked with Madonna in the studio, including many studio engineers - the guys in charge of recording her vocals and vocal effects, etc - and they all say the same thing - Madonna does not pitch correct her voice! Again, it's yet another famous Madonna myth that her vocals were pitched for the LAV album, but this just isn't true. There are countless examples of live and studio vocals like the ones above, where we can clearly hear the range and pitch she's clearly capable of singing in - but doesn't necessarily always chose to for various reasons (dancing/sustaining it for multiple nights over a long ass tour). I mean, you can even hear it in her speaking voice, she has a kind of girlish voice still to this day. Madonna's also not a fan of over-comping (editing vocals together from many different takes) her vocal performances for her recordings, as many artists do to the extent where every other word is a comp - in fact, she has even scrapped "perfect" vocals in favour of the rough demo vocals on some songs 'cos she preferred the "feel" of them. Whereas some people chose to spend hours in the studio working on the vocals, M will often just sing it straight through 2 or 3 times and then they pick the best one. As Guy Sigsworth described it, it was like Al Pacino acting a scene out for 3 different takes and then picking the best one - they're all great, you just pick the one that feels the best with the most emotion. (I'm paraphrasing here) Don't get me wrong, she may do a little comping here and there, but Madonna's a seriously talented and gifted vocalist - don't you guys still know that? Those slowed down MDNA tracks are NOT her original vocal and are obviously slowed down, and sound un-natural. Thanks for this. So tired of people trying to insinuate that Madonna needs help to sing.. It is just another way to try to discredit her as a vocalist. She is a wonderful singer and deserves more respect than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 They need to stop doing it, without pitch her voice sounds like the flawless COADF vocals! Will she ever be able to top that perfect album? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vocalism Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 It's clear to me that this is indeed what they did. It's always why I disliked LAV, and now it's clearer to me why I'm so turned off by some of her more recent vocals. I wonder if she did this on "Human Nature" and "Inside of Me" back in the day too. Listening to that slowed-down version of TUTR, it really sounds like M circa LAP. Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glindathegood Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 I think the high pitched sound has a lot to do with the type of music she is doing, which is very dance and electronic. You want higher vocals to contrast more with the deeper bass. Yes, her vocals were lower on LAP, but that wasn't the same kind of dance music. She can go back to her lower voice, but it would work better if she is doing something less dance/electronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pud Whacker Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 i think album versions sound 100% better. sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted August 24, 2013 Author Share Posted August 24, 2013 ^ me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vocalism Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Bill, that's crazy talk. I usually agree with you on most things. It's one thing if Madonna wants to use her voice differently, but it's another to artificially alter it, which I'm convinced was also done on HU, which is why it took me so long to warm up to that song. I think the high pitched sound has a lot to do with the type of music she is doing, which is very dance and electronic. You want higher vocals to contrast more with the deeper bass. Yes, her vocals were lower on LAP, but that wasn't the same kind of dance music. She can go back to her lower voice, but it would work better if she is doing something less dance/electronic. This makes no sense to me. "Rescue Me," "Deeper and Deeper," "Vogue," "Get Together," "Jump," etc. etc. etc. I could go on all day with examples of dance songs with deeper/lower vocals. Let's not pretend that Madonna isn't obsessed with sounding/looking younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Indeed I did and from several reliable sources. I've spoken to 100+ people who have worked with Madonna in the studio, including many studio engineers - the guys in charge of recording her vocals and vocal effects, etc - and they all say the same thing - Madonna does not pitch correct her voice! Again, it's yet another famous Madonna myth that her vocals were pitched for the LAV album, but this just isn't true. There are countless examples of live and studio vocals like the ones above, where we can clearly hear the range and pitch she's clearly capable of singing in - but doesn't necessarily always chose to for various reasons (dancing/sustaining it for multiple nights over a long ass tour). I mean, you can even hear it in her speaking voice, she has a kind of girlish voice still to this day. Madonna's also not a fan of over-comping (editing vocals together from many different takes) her vocal performances for her recordings, as many artists do to the extent where every other word is a comp - in fact, she has even scrapped "perfect" vocals in favour of the rough demo vocals on some songs 'cos she preferred the "feel" of them. Whereas some people chose to spend hours in the studio working on the vocals, M will often just sing it straight through 2 or 3 times and then they pick the best one. As Guy Sigsworth described it, it was like Al Pacino acting a scene out for 3 different takes and then picking the best one - they're all great, you just pick the one that feels the best with the most emotion. (I'm paraphrasing here) Don't get me wrong, she may do a little comping here and there, but Madonna's a seriously talented and gifted vocalist - don't you guys still know that? Those slowed down MDNA tracks are NOT her original vocal and are obviously slowed down, and sound un-natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini1313 Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 I agree 100% the pitch correction "erases the sexiness and maturity of her voice" I prefer the original pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gemini1313 Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Bill, that's crazy talk. I usually agree with you on most things. It's one thing if Madonna wants to use her voice differently, but it's another to artificially alter it, which I'm convinced was also done on HU, which is why it took me so long to warm up to that song. This makes no sense to me. "Rescue Me," "Deeper and Deeper," "Vogue," "Get Together," "Jump," etc. etc. etc. I could go on all day with examples of dance songs with deeper/lower vocals. Let's not pretend that Madonna isn't obsessed with sounding/looking younger. exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kim Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Well I'LL take the word of the people who actually made the records, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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